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just lol if the 4070 has less memory bandwidth than my 3070 I know cache is magic but that's still nickel and diming people
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Jul 5, 2022 03:16
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FuturePastNow posted:just lol if the 4070 has less memory bandwidth than my 3070 I did a deeper dive into announced gddr6/6x chips the last time this rumor was reported. Basically I think either 160bit or 18Gbps is wrong in that spec. GDDR6 up to 24Gbps exists now, if it’s 160bit then it’s probably faster gddr6.
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Jul 5, 2022 03:41
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The idea I guess is that 2.5 - 2.7GHz are actually fairly conservative and efficient clock speeds for this architecture and node combination, .....4090 could have a lot of overclocking headroom Whats more likely is they pushed the clocks as hard as they could get away with on air and ended up with a real high TDP. Given that its a huge monolithic die GPU, with relatively high stock clocks for that sort've chip, expecting great overclocks (ie. 30%+) even with water is probably unreasonable. Water cooling and a whole lot more power might get you some OK to decent OC's (10-20%) is my WAG. Would explain some of the more insane (700-800w+) TDP's that have popped up for the OC oriented versions.
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Jul 5, 2022 06:53
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:If its over 400w at those clocks (which are high for a stock GPU, stock 3080 is ~1500-1700Mhz for a 8nm chip, different arch. but still) then that sure seems to be the opposite of conservative and efficient. AD102 is a massive GPU with a huge FP32 count. The 4090 supposedly has 60% more CUDA cores than the 3090 with "just" a 28% TDP increase. So I genuinely don't think the 450W TDP represents them pushing clocks to the extreme. I think that should be considered a pretty normal TDP for a GPU with a transistor count like the 4090. Future versions (4090 Ti, Ada Titan) could see the TDP explode to 600W or more. That's when they'll really be pushing clocks. The 4080 on the other hand having a 420W TDP with so many fewer cores than the 4090 does potentially represent an attempt by Nvidia to push stock clock speeds to the limit. edit: and I mean, RDNA2 manages to be pretty power efficient at 2.5 GHz, so it's not like this is an impossible task. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 07:00
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:So I genuinely don't think the 450W TDP represents them pushing clocks to the extreme. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:edit: and I mean, RDNA2 manages to be pretty power efficient at 2.5 GHz, so it's not like this is an impossible task.
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Jul 5, 2022 07:33
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I'm not saying it's going to be amazingly efficient at 450W lol. I'm just saying that the clocks may not be as high on the 4090 as the other SKUs, possibly because Nvidia ran into the thermal limits of air cooling before they ran into the stability limits they usually stop at.
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Jul 5, 2022 07:38
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I'm just saying that the clocks may not be as high on the 4090 as the other SKUs, possibly because Nvidia ran into the thermal limits of air cooling before they ran into the stability limits they usually stop at. I think most of the leaks have clocks being fairly close among the top end 4xxx GPU's anyways. The big differentiators appears to be in the on die cache and compute units for the GPU dies themselves.
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Jul 5, 2022 08:25
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My underclocked FTW3 3080Ti is already pumping out some serious heat to the point I am concerned about my PC heating my room during the summer right now. Ive even bought extra fan for the room to try and keep things cool. These 4xxx are going to operate like god drat ovens baking a pizza every time I play a game. This poo poo is getting bonkers.
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Jul 5, 2022 10:16
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It's alright, at least electricity is getting cheaper at the same time. Oh 
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Jul 5, 2022 10:32
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Slayerjerman posted:My underclocked FTW3 3080Ti is already pumping out some serious heat to the point I am concerned about my PC heating my room during the summer right now. Ive even bought extra fan for the room to try and keep things cool. Hang a custom loop radiator out your window.
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Jul 5, 2022 15:16
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Radiators are just kind of ACs right? Could you in theory plumb a custom loop to an ac unit? I honestly have no idea if something like that would even work. You'd have to ventilate it through a window or I guess some sort of duct though
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Jul 5, 2022 19:18
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Elvis_Maximus posted:Radiators are just kind of ACs right? Pretty sure Linus Tech Tips did this
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Jul 5, 2022 19:24
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Elvis_Maximus posted:Radiators are just kind of ACs right? Specifically a water chiller, and yes you can do that.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:24
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Elvis_Maximus posted:Radiators are just kind of ACs right?
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Jul 5, 2022 19:25
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no, air conditioners and radiators are quite different. air conditioners rely on compressing and decompressing a gas to pump heat out of air and into a convenient exhaust somewhere (air conditioners cannot reduce overall temperature without this exhaust, law of thermodynamics). this is incredibly energy intensive - most of it goes out the exhaust however and that's why it lowers the temperature of your target environment, ideally. radiators are much simpler - the heat is generated by the CPU and heats up the IHS, which allows good contact with the cooler if mounting and paste are done correctly. the heat is then carried by heat pipes which use various phase shifts of liquid to carry the heat energy up and into the array of metal fins, which have a ton of surface area and are very conductive. then the attached fan provides lots of air over those fins and voila, heat is dissipated and your component is cooled. the heat is only transferred to the case but your casefans do the rest. you can totally hook an AC up to a loop if you want and can rip it up to make a big loop but it makes a loving ton of heat. aquarium chillers are easier and the same idea. used for extreme overclocking that isn't quite at the LN2 level.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:28
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Elvis_Maximus posted:Radiators are just kind of ACs right? AC units compress and decompress a refrigerant that vaporizes on one side of the loop (absorbing a ton of heat in the process) and condenses on the other side (releasing all of the heat). It's a completely different process from water cooling. You can do wacky things with liquid cooling though, such as plumbing your coolant to radiators outside your house (linus tech tips made a video series about this like 5 years ago now). I've heard of one person who plumbed their coolant through a concrete basement floor so their PC also heated their floor. edit: LTT also did a video using a refrigeration loop recently but it wasn't really like what you're thinking. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 19:32
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Elvis_Maximus posted:Radiators are just kind of ACs right? Kind of but not really. Air Conditioners use phase changing gases to draw heat out of the air inside and dump it outside via the outside coil and fan. The abuse of physics and phase changing via compression is how we're able to get sub-ambient temperatures inside versus outside. PC water cooling uses just water to transfer heat, but because there's no phase changing, you cannot get the water colder than the ambient temperature of your radiator. So if you hooked up a PC loop to use an outdoor AC coil you could use it to dump surplus heat from the PC but it would never be cooler than the outside air. You could also in theory setup a PC cooling loop that did use phase changing gas like an air conditioner and while that would get you sub-ambient temperatures, you will have to then deal with condensation all over your CPU and GPU because they're now cold.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:33
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SpartanIvy posted:You could also in theory setup a PC cooling loop that did use phase changing gas like an air conditioner and while that would get you sub-ambient temperatures, you will have to then deal with condensation all over your CPU and GPU because they're now cold. And that's why I think it would be neat to have a tiny air conditioned room just for a PC, and have it preferably close enough to a desk for DisplayPort cables to work.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:44
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Just have an air conditioner in the room that both you and the PC enjoy.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:50
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i legit like finding loops that do something with the heat and feel like you could do better than pool if you really wanted. can't be that hard to hook it up to a boiler or something and offset some hot water costs.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:52
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CoolCab posted:i legit like finding loops that do something with the heat and feel like you could do better than pool if you really wanted. can't be that hard to hook it up to a boiler or something and offset some hot water costs. "Honey I'm going to take a shower, fire up Furmark!"
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Jul 5, 2022 19:54
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LRADIKAL posted:Just have an air conditioner in the room that both you and the PC enjoy. My PC radiates heat around me at my desk while the rest of my room is 5 degrees cooler. A floor fan helps but it's still not ideal.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:55
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Does it radiate heat significantly, or do you mean it blows heat at you? Aim the AC's output towards the PC or aim the PC's output towards the AC's input.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:58
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I wonder if this supposed heavy order of 4090 parts from Nvidia means we can actually acquire one at launch. The 65 inch Samsung QD OLED seems like the money move pairing. Apparently it even overclocks to 4K/144? Which is completely doable for the 4090 given everything we know about how powerful it will be. Just curious- are you guys in the market for Lovelace? If so, what chip, and why? I'm mainly curious because the stack is so weird, with the 4090 being in a whole other world performance wise from the 4080.
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Jul 5, 2022 20:09
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Did I not read about Hall effect coolers becoming a thing? Or did I dream it.
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Jul 5, 2022 20:16
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I think my 5900x/3080 pairing will be good for a while until I move to an eventual AM5/4080ti machine, give it another year or so, DDR5 prices should settle by then along with motherboards. I don't see any games to get super hyped about in 2023 as of yet, maybe as we get more unreal 5 engine games. The Samsung S95b I think is compelling enough to get me to switch from LG OLED, I think i'll wait for Gen2 for Samsung to sort a few things out with their new tech though.
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Jul 5, 2022 20:27
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Are there any power consumption rumors from the AMD equivalent of the RTX 4000 series?
buglord fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 20:44
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buglord posted:Are there any power consumption links from the AMD equivalent of the RTX 4000 series? AMD has gone out there and said their RDNA3 cards will consume power power than their RDNA2 cards, though less than Nvidia's new cards. From this interview: quote:"Performance is king," stated Naffziger, "but even if our designs are more power-efficient, that doesn't mean you don't push power levels up if the competition is doing the same thing. It's just that they'll have to push them a lot higher than we will."
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Jul 5, 2022 20:49
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Just lol if you haven’t already installed a dryer vent in your PC room to vent the heat out.
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Jul 5, 2022 20:56
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MarcusSA posted:Just lol if you haven’t already installed a dryer vent in your PC room to vent the heat out. If current trends continue for even one more generation, this will absolutely be worthwhile.
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Jul 5, 2022 20:59
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Collateral posted:Did I not read about Hall effect coolers becoming a thing? Or did I dream it. There’s been thermoelectric coolers like this one that Intel briefly pushed with ek: https://www.ekwb.com/custom-loop/quantumx-delta-tec-sub-ambient-cooling/ I believe the problem with sub ambient stuff like that is that you don’t have the power and space inside a PC to do something meaningful.
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Jul 5, 2022 21:07
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MarcusSA posted:Just lol if you haven’t already installed a dryer vent in your PC room to vent the heat out. I'm planning on a custom built geothermal setup myself.
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Jul 5, 2022 21:11
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LRADIKAL posted:Just have an air conditioner in the room that both you and the PC enjoy. This is basically my home office - it has a 1.5 ton minisplit dedicated to it (it was only going to be one ton, but the unit was upgraded at no cost to 1.5 by the installer, and the room faces the sun all day and bakes, so it needed more cooling). It’s pretty great though - the unit keeps the room around 72-74 deg F, depending on time of day, and my gaming rig is always nice and chilly.
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Jul 5, 2022 21:27
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Wow, time is a circle… Peltier coolers were the next big thing for cpu cooling in the 2000’s for a while. Theyre horribly inefficient, but maybe they’ll be more viable this time. I think the tech is neat barring efficiency concerns. That an condensation concerns
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Jul 5, 2022 22:20
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So not for gaming, but for 3D renders, you need large chunks of VRAM normally, even if it's super efficient because it has to hold everything right? I'm not 100% how the hardware and software interacts for say, Daz or Blender, is the 4XXX line going to have more VRAM or would it be better to save up for a 3090 for the 24gigs?
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Jul 5, 2022 23:14
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yeah for offline rendering you want enough VRAM to hold your entire scene, performance rapidly drops off otherwise per a fairly reliable leaker the 4070 will supposedly have 10gb, the 4080 will have 16gb, and the 4090 will have 24gb so you'll get more VRAM at most tiers, except the halo flagship which hasn't changed
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Jul 5, 2022 23:52
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namlosh posted:Wow, time is a circle… Peltier coolers were the next big thing for cpu cooling in the 2000’s for a while. Theyre horribly inefficient, but maybe they’ll be more viable this time. I think the tech is neat barring efficiency concerns. not to mention it makes tons of heat which goes into your room.
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Jul 6, 2022 00:31
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I built a new PC but I kept my own case. I have a Radeon RX 6700 XT and a sound card, and with the placement of the fastest PCIe slot (where I installed the GPU) there was only one option where I could install the sound card, which was very close under the GPU. There is maybe 1/4 inch between them, which gives the GPU fans not a lot of clearance for intake. Is that a potential problem? I ran a 60 second stress test using the Radeon software, and GPU temp never went above 71 C. Does that sound okay, and is that a realistic ceiling that I'd see when playing games? I've been getting a crash to desktop when playing Hunt Showdown, which I never had problems with before, and it occurred to me that the GPU might be getting too hot and leading to a crash in the game. I don't know if that sort of thing causes that sort of crash, but regardless I'm considering the possibility of removing the sound card to get better GPU temperatures if there seems to be an upside to doing so.
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Jul 6, 2022 01:42
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Racing Stripe posted:I built a new PC but I kept my own case. I have a Radeon RX 6700 XT and a sound card, and with the placement of the fastest PCIe slot (where I installed the GPU) there was only one option where I could install the sound card, which was very close under the GPU. There is maybe 1/4 inch between them, which gives the GPU fans not a lot of clearance for intake. Is that a potential problem? 71C is not even close to problematic for a radeon GPU. AMD uses more advanced temperature sensing than Nvidia to boost more aggressively, and their GPUs can manage hotspot ("junction") temps of 100C or more (usually the average die temp will be in the 80s during this). That said, 60 seconds is not very long for a stress test. It's possible that a real sustained load is getting it hotter. Try running furmark for 5 - 10 minutes and see how hot your GPU gets. That is an unrealistically intense sustained load, so if the temps are reasonable during that, then your GPU should be able to handle anything.
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Jul 6, 2022 01:51
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There are plenty of ways to monitor temps in practice and get a more realistic measurement, but I can already say1/4" isn't much and more importantly what the gently caress are you using a PCI-E sound card for in 2022?
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