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Failed Imagineer posted:Being a pro-FPTP supposed leftist is a scorcher of a take, I lol'ed just becasue i think PR isn't gonna save us doesn't mean i think FPTP is a good idea. if there was a PR button I'd press it; just sick of hearing raised as the solution to everything anytime the uk is in crisis.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:34
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I said it once and I'll say it again, PMQs is a dangerous thing to watch because all it ever makes me do is wonder if Stalin was as bad as he was portrayed.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:34
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Failed Imagineer posted:Being a pro-FPTP supposed leftist is a scorcher of a take, I lol'ed This is, um, not an unusual point of view actually? PR tends to mean you get centrism at all times. Anyone who wants 1945 to happen again (or 1997 even I guess) is going to want FPTP even if it's more usual to end up with rightwing majorities. Imagine the Coalition, but forever.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:37
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“Quit, the Lightweight Brigade!” Although their bed they’d made When they had to defend some silly stories. Theirs not to unconvince, Theirs not to watch and wince, Theirs now to look up Will Quince. Into the valley of Death Stumbled some tories
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Jul 6, 2022 12:40
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Rustybear posted:just becasue i think PR isn't gonna save us doesn't mean i think FPTP is a good idea. No one is saying it's a solution to everything. That doesn't mean it wouldn't make a massive positive meaningful difference. Basically everywhere that has it has higher standards of living than everywhere that doesn't.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:40
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feedmegin posted:This is, um, not an unusual point of view actually? PR tends to mean you get centrism at all times. Anyone who wants 1945 to happen again (or 1997 even I guess) is going to want FPTP even if it's more usual to end up with rightwing majorities. Imagine the Coalition, but forever. We have the Coalition, but forever. It's just that the coalition exists within the main parties.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:42
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Javid twisting the knife here.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:48
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Javid’s statement is basically “Boris is making it harder for us to fool people into thinking we’re not cunts”
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Jul 6, 2022 12:49
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feedmegin posted:This is, um, not an unusual point of view actually? PR tends to mean you get centrism at all times. Anyone who wants 1945 to happen again (or 1997 even I guess) is going to want FPTP even if it's more usual to end up with rightwing majorities. Imagine the Coalition, but forever. We have no idea what it would result in in the long term, because UK politics is infected so heavily with tactical voting amongst those who vote, and non-voting amongst those who think that even tactical voting will not get them representation. The current parties and splits would not survive. What we do know is that PR would be a shift in how politics works, and it would take place over 4 or 5 election cycles to settle into a new normal, as existing parties split, new parties form, new people vote, parties combine and seek out new strategies. It would be political upheaval, and socialist policies and ideas have a better chance in that kind of shifting upheaval than they do in a system with 2(and a bit) heavily entrenched groups, dominated by machine politics hostile to socialism.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:50
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Can someone explain to me why BJ is finally falling now, over something that seems relatively inconsequential, after surviving all the other horrible scandals all along for so long?
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Jul 6, 2022 12:51
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Can someone explain to me why BJ is finally falling now, over something that seems relatively inconsequential, after surviving all the other horrible scandals all along for so long? The Daily Mail stopped supporting him
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Jul 6, 2022 12:52
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Can someone explain to me why BJ is finally falling now, over something that seems relatively inconsequential, after surviving all the other horrible scandals all along for so long? First scandal after losing byelections in Conservative safe seats, while polling 15 points behind Labour.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:54
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Eddy-Baby posted:The Daily Mail stopped supporting him Did he do anything specific that led to that or was it just Murdoch deciding to back a different horse
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Jul 6, 2022 12:54
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Because the Tory base are deeply homophobic, and supporting someone who groped men was always going to be the nuclear option for when they were ready to replace him.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Can someone explain to me why BJ is finally falling now, over something that seems relatively inconsequential, after surviving all the other horrible scandals all along for so long? It's time for the tories to all swap chairs, slap on a 'new government' label and go to the polls.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Can someone explain to me why BJ is finally falling now, over something that seems relatively inconsequential, after surviving all the other horrible scandals all along for so long? From what I gather, he won the vote of no confidence under the promise of "no more scandals" and not being able to even go a few months without another one has annoyed a lot of tories. Also I think some of them are embarrassed by going on TV to spout a lie they were told was true. They only want to tell lies they themselves know are lies. Plus those by-elections have them spooked.
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Jul 6, 2022 12:56
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Did he do anything specific that led to that or was it just Murdoch deciding to back a different horse Which is... not better
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Jul 6, 2022 12:59
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Housing Minister gone
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Jul 6, 2022 13:01
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It really didn't help that by going with the 'forgotten' line he painted himself as either a liar or incompetent (yes I realise he is both, but still) Matey boys letter yesterday was perfectly laser focused to utterly gently caress him. It laid out exactly how they lied, what they lied about, and had receipts to back it up
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Jul 6, 2022 13:02
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“PR would prevent leftist governments” is quite a take considering that the vast majority of people itt have never lived under a leftist government
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Jul 6, 2022 13:05
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Yeah the "Woops I forgot this guy was a sex pest!" wasn't the brightest statement by Boris, given the multitude of evidence.
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Jul 6, 2022 13:05
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Also, if they are quick, they swap leaders and get an election in before labour hoof Keir and get someone with an opinion. In the worst case, Boris and Keir go at about the same time and we have a 'clean slate' election between Hunt and Raynor by Christmas, and it will be tax cuts and privatised NHS all round. Huzzah!
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Jul 6, 2022 13:07
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is it not a direct lie to say 'as soon as i found out about the allegations i removed the whip'; wasn't there a 24hr delay where the PM said resigning from the whips office was enough loving boris has you questioning events that happened less than 48hours ago. i know it doesn't matter but lol that he lies about stuff that happened in virtually the same conversation
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Jul 6, 2022 13:08
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The worlds crumbling apart and everything is terrible but I got to say this is great and I'm loving it. Watching from abroad but would be happy to never hear about that clown ever again. Something good must happen this year dammit.
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Jul 6, 2022 13:08
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Did he do anything specific that led to that or was it just Murdoch deciding to back a different horse From what I gather, the DM comments (ie the mail-reading public) have been turning against BloJob for a few months, but the editor kept supporting him. Apparently last week Rothermere who actually owns it (not Murdoch) stepped in and said they have to start to reflect the public opinion or some such. It started with Mail on Sunday (though that has been less hero-worshipping than the daily paper edition) but yesterday (I didn't see the day before's cover) definitely showed that change by referring to him as Greased Piglet.
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Jul 6, 2022 13:08
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jiggerypokery posted:We have the Coalition, but forever. Like the poster above I never said that I am pro-FPTP but I have a issues with PR being touted as an obvious improvement: 1. Parties have internal coalitions, yes, but at least they have to come to a common manifesto to present to voters. And contrary to common perceptions governments do tend to stick to manifesto commitments. Coalitions between parties allow them to burn their manifestos in the name of compromise so voters *never* know what they're actually voting for. The 2010 and 2015 results show this in the burning of the manifestos for the first coalition then Cameron/Osborne making the mistake of promising a bunch of poo poo they didn't actually want to do because they didn't expect to win a majority. 2. List based systems will make it easier to concentrate the power to select candidates more in the careerist central party offices. This would make it harder, not easier, to get leftist candidates who can win seats on ballot papers. 3. It would break or severely weaken the constituency link to elected officials. In the mixed systems like Holyrood this creates a confusing two tier representative dynamic too. What can the process of recall look like under PR? Currently you can't recall an MSP in Scotland. I certainly think that a PR system that was well thought out could improve things but I'm pretty suspicious of some rushed agreement between Lab/Lib Dems would be any good. Personally my preference would probably look something like having AV in the lower house and replace the Lords with a PR based upper house maintaining the current understanding that the upper house can't block manifesto commitments indefinitely. But at the end of the day I think stuff like the toxic media environment and lack of more regional power distribution is more damaging to our politics than just FPTP. Julio Cruz posted:“PR would prevent leftist governments” is quite a take considering that the vast majority of people itt have never lived under a leftist government Is this any less true of the countries that have PR? According to this list (https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/which-european-countries-use-proportional-representation/) the overwhelming majority of countries in Europe use PR and Europe is still a neoliberal hellhole? Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 13:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Did he do anything specific that led to that or was it just Murdoch deciding to back a different horse murdoch and the mail were still backing him yesterday morning. as much as they set the tone they also have to be seen to do so, so they're as much pushing to the front of the crowd as they are leading the way
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Jul 6, 2022 13:11
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PMs Question Time was brutal. Raab spent his time looking like he had shat his pants and Boris spent his looking like he was trying not to.
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Jul 6, 2022 13:14
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https://twitter.com/JamesHLUK/status/1544642357718667265 https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1544592029157675010 https://twitter.com/miffythegamer/status/1544588430629289985 fuctifino fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 13:14
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https://twitter.com/Jimllpaintit/status/1544658166516006912?t=q6WTsFP2i8CrIFoUYOxiTg&s=19
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Jul 6, 2022 13:26
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Guavanaut posted:Mail isn't Murdoch, it's the Rothermere's trust. He has an, ahh, 'interesting' wording on his wikipedia page: wiki posted:His open support for fascism and praise for Nazism and the British Union of Fascists contributed to the popularity of those views in the 1930s. That ambition, for which Rothermere became best known, was not successful, and he died in Bermuda early in the war. "Ambition" indeed.
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Jul 6, 2022 13:26
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/Jimllpaintit/status/1544658166516006912?t=q6WTsFP2i8CrIFoUYOxiTg&s=19 great, now I'm picturing central london being terrorised by a giant eric pickles
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Jul 6, 2022 13:28
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Do you believeee in traggiiicc 
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Jul 6, 2022 13:29
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A really fun (not fun at all) fact is Nadhim Zahawi is a member and former chairman of Le Cercle, a pro-apartheid, anti-communist club founded by Nazi collaborators & Opus Dei members.
Gyro Zeppeli fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 13:31
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:A really fun (not fun at all) fact is Nadhim Zahawi is a member of Le Cercle, a pro-apartheid, anti-communist club founded by Nazi collaborators & Opus Dei members. Well just look at him, such a fine Aryan specimen will clearly be revered like a god in the Fourth Reich
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Jul 6, 2022 13:35
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What a Cercle jerk.
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Jul 6, 2022 13:35
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Apparently someone called "Claire Coutinho" has quit from the treasury, they genuinely are just making these up from the names of footballers now
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Jul 6, 2022 13:36
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"Creation of a (private) intelligence service specialising in a selective point of view" Where have I heard this befooooorreeeeeeeeee
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Jul 6, 2022 13:36
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As much as the Tory's bill cracking down on protest is an absolute disgrace and terrifying totalitarianism, Steve Bray is still a massive oval office and we should stop lionising him.
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Jul 6, 2022 13:37
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peanut- posted:Apparently someone called "Claire Coutinho" has quit from the treasury, they genuinely are just making these up from the names of footballers now They already exhausted the star wars universe with Guto Bebb, and Tom Tugendhat is some Sleve McDichael poo poo
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Jul 6, 2022 13:38
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