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Oxyclean posted:I'm confused; wouldn't "same power per fuel unit" imply it wouldn't be free power? I didn't overclock my coal plants, but I definitely did overclock every single Fuel Generator to max. It's still mindboggling how many Fuel Generators it takes to max out a pipeline.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:12
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Otacon posted:I didn't overclock my coal plants, but I definitely did overclock every single Fuel Generator to max. It's still mindboggling how many Fuel Generators it takes to max out a pipeline. I'll have to consider this - I was just gonna ask: I'm at oil and have access to turbo fuel, is it worth setting up some dedicated turbo fuel power facilities? Or do people mostly just make oil products and covert the leftover into fuel for generators?
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Jul 5, 2022 01:15
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Oxyclean posted:I'll have to consider this - I was just gonna ask: I'm at oil and have access to turbo fuel, is it worth setting up some dedicated turbo fuel power facilities? Or do people mostly just make oil products and covert the leftover into fuel for generators? Baby steps. Leave Turbofuel for later. You can either make plastic and rubber directly from your crude, or make Fuel directly, with a byproduct to make plastic and rubber. This way you get some new materials, and a ton of Fuel Generators (hope you are making heavy frames!)
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Jul 5, 2022 01:22
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Oxyclean posted:I'll have to consider this - I was just gonna ask: I'm at oil and have access to turbo fuel, is it worth setting up some dedicated turbo fuel power facilities? Or do people mostly just make oil products and covert the leftover into fuel for generators? The more common thing to do is make a diluted fuel plant instead of using turbofuel. If you have blenders unlocked it's a really simple factory to get 20GW out of nothing but oil and water, no need to source sulfur which is relatively rare and might be better saved for batteries or nuclear refinement:  If you're not at blenders yet, you can do the same thing using nothing but refineries and packagers but it requires looping empty canisters through the system and is more complicated to set up:  Either one also allows you to use the polymer resin byproduct to automate fabric if you have the alt recipe for it. Useful for making filters later on, or you can just dump it in the resource sink to get rid of it easily.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:35
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Is turbofuel good for something else? Experimental seem to put emphasis on making it easy/reliable to unlock. Guess I'm hardrive hunting some more now. Otacon posted:Baby steps. Leave Turbofuel for later. You can either make plastic and rubber directly from your crude, or make Fuel directly, with a byproduct to make plastic and rubber. This way you get some new materials, and a ton of Fuel Generators (hope you are making heavy frames!) Oh, I've already got some of that going - or well, my friend set some of it up then I created an additional setup on a node to churn out more plastic. My friend is packaging up the fuel from their setup - I'm working off a pure oil node, I forgot how much plastic plants it gave me, but it didn't seem like that much heavy oil left over for fuel... I think I built 6 generators? We're currently using 3 out 4 of the nodes on the west coast so I was debating doing some turbo fuel in the north since it's closer to some unused coal + sulfur. I thought I remember having some other reason to get compacted coal and turbo fuel going, but it might have just been for the sake of it, then again we are starting to creep up on our power limits, and we're probably going to have more big demands soon as we ramp up into train tech. (But it sounds like I want to do diluted fuel instead)
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Jul 5, 2022 01:38
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Oxyclean posted:Is turbofuel good for something else? Experimental seem to put emphasis on making it easy/reliable to unlock. Guess I'm hardrive hunting some more now. It's good for fueling vehicles, but vehicles are generally a pain to set up on a large scale and it's better to use trains/drones beyond the early game. Only other thing it's used for is turbo rifle ammo which is kind of underwhelming, seeker ammo is a lot more useful imo. I made a small packaged turbofuel factory because I was going all in on trucks as a gimmick in my last save, other than that blended fuel is so much more convenient that I would go for it every time. Oil + water is always going to be easier to set up than oil+sulfur+coal+water and most of the oil deposits are at the edges of the map where water is easily accessible.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:52
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Oxyclean posted:Is turbofuel good for something else? Experimental seem to put emphasis on making it easy/reliable to unlock. Guess I'm hardrive hunting some more now. Turbo fuel is fine -- unless you build on NESG's scale you won't run out of sulfur. Definitely don't do the one that needs packagers, that poo poo sucks to build. Definitely look for more HDs, you want the alts for recycled plastic and rubber. To answer your original question, IMO it's best to separate power from rubber/plastic production. It's simpler, and a high-efficiency design that maximizes one doesn't produce a lot of byproduct "waste" to use for the other. That assumes you have the full set of alts. But also, the oil alts are really really good and you super want to unlock them before building a serious oil factory.
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Jul 5, 2022 01:55
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MerrMan posted:Thanks everyone for the train laying tips. I was doing roughly CainFortea's layout above but I think my main track was just a little bit too close to the stop on either side. Moved it back half a foundation and then just struggled through the "curve too tight" issue while laying and reclaiming 1000 sections of track. Kylith's tip about ghosting a full curve to help eyeball the 90 degree point was very helpful in some of the not-depot sections of the track. Currently I just have one big circuit with no real junctions so that'll be the next thing to figure out when I decide to branch off. Decided to just belt the Coal and Quartz to the same spot and put a double depot there rather than set up two standalone stops. When doing tight curves the rule is 3. 3 foundation units X axis, 3 foundation units Y axis. You can do that and then build your station right onto it. Also I always add another bit of track that is 6 foundation units long coming off the turn into the last station, because that lines up just right to have the next station be 1 foundation and 4 "ticks" past the last station.
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Jul 5, 2022 02:06
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So the wiki enlightening me to the fact you can put math into clockspeed for under/overlocking is pretty awesome: I can use a 120/min Limestone node and have 2 constructors at 100% and a third at 100*2/3 to make it perfectly round out. I do kind of wish I could just input desired input per minute though, rather then only being able to manipulate clockspeed or output.
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Jul 5, 2022 02:14
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Oxyclean posted:So the wiki enlightening me to the fact you can put math into clockspeed for under/overlocking is pretty awesome: I can use a 120/min Limestone node and have 2 constructors at 100% and a third at 100*2/3 to make it perfectly round out. Thank you for sharing this. That is rad.
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Jul 5, 2022 02:19
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I just unlocked coal power, in the dune desert there are a bunch of coal nodes to the north, is it best to conveyor to the East to the water in the NE?
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Jul 5, 2022 02:54
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priznat posted:I just unlocked coal power, in the dune desert there are a bunch of coal nodes to the north, is it best to conveyor to the East to the water in the NE? Wherever is most convenient! A lot of people set up their early base around the big waterfall, so they use that lake as the source of their water. Or check out unlocking the tractor before building a kilometer long belt, put your power plants anywhere you like.
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Jul 5, 2022 03:10
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Klyith posted:Wherever is most convenient! A lot of people set up their early base around the big waterfall, so they use that lake as the source of their water. Hmm I have been spoiled in the past with all my coal plants having both the node and water close to each other. I just want to get off the biofuel so badly, it is just annoying to go out and get a ton of leaves and wood on the ground. i have been trying not to cut down trees because I like the look of them. The little shrubs are ok to chop though. I have the coal ratio burned into my brain already of 3 water extractors per 8 plants per 120coal/min 
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Jul 5, 2022 03:18
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Re: overclocking power plants. I finished a massive fuel power plant project just a little while ago and decided I wanted to go for a pretty complex, load balanced layout and underclocked every fuel generator a little bit. I haven't checked this personally since U6 experimental came out so maybe it's fixed, or this only affects underclocking and for overclocking its different, but when you go to the overclock screen and use the slider OR set the MW output, what I picked ended up not being the real output of the plant. The displayed value was different than the actual value. The only way I discovered this was to give a plant fuel and see the numbers change as it runs. I had to fiddle with it a little bit to get the right setting that I wanted. Thankfully I was testing as I went along to refine stuff and make sure my design worked, so I caught it pretty early. Again this might no apply to overclocks or even be a thing anymore, but it was a confusing problem as I was checking and rechecking my math and wondering why my plants were short on fuel. So be careful and make sure that the two numbers match. IIRC the real output is displayed in a black box on the upper right of the overclock window. Make sure it's what you want.
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Jul 5, 2022 03:43
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Ice Fist posted:Re: overclocking power plants. I finished a massive fuel power plant project just a little while ago and decided I wanted to go for a pretty complex, load balanced layout and underclocked every fuel generator a little bit. I haven't checked this personally since U6 experimental came out so maybe it's fixed, or this only affects underclocking and for overclocking its different, but when you go to the overclock screen and use the slider OR set the MW output, what I picked ended up not being the real output of the plant. The displayed value was different than the actual value. The only way I discovered this was to give a plant fuel and see the numbers change as it runs. I had to fiddle with it a little bit to get the right setting that I wanted. Thankfully I was testing as I went along to refine stuff and make sure my design worked, so I caught it pretty early. On satisfactory-tools there's a buildings codex where the OC-able machines have a slider you can drag around. For example, on the fuel generator you can see power output & fuel use. Alternately, here are my absolute favorite numbers which I think are the best possible until they update overclocking and make it not so weird. If you are OCing generators, do it like this: pre:Coal: 145% 100MW 20 coal / 9.5 compact 60 water Fuel: 194% 250MW 20 fuel / 7.5 turbofuel
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Jul 5, 2022 04:08
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Oxyclean posted:does this setup need pumps? I've always tried to build the flattest possible coal setups to avoid flow or pumping issues cause I hate the idea of losing power to pumping when I can avoid it. (Also, I think I thought pumps took more power then what I just saw when I looked it up.)
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Jul 5, 2022 06:18
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priznat posted:I just unlocked coal power, in the dune desert there are a bunch of coal nodes to the north, is it best to conveyor to the East to the water in the NE? The dune desert is my favourite start and I often use the water in the ocean to the northeast. You have to build access down to the water though. There are actually 3 coal nodes in the NE so you don't have to convey the coal very far at all. If you do want to move coal a large distance you'll have to weigh the decision for belts or vehicles by whichever you think is most convenient. I personally don't like long distance belts, though vehicles have their own downsides.
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Jul 5, 2022 07:54
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Oxyclean posted:https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed#Clock_speed_for_power_generators Okay, so it's closer to 250% overclock = 2 generators with that formula. But the point was: there is no downside, unlike the other buildings, it's purely to save space.
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Jul 5, 2022 08:46
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Collateral Damage posted:I play this game slowly. Today I spent 2 hours just making my coal power setup pretty, untangling the unholy mess of piping I had originally put down and generally tidying the place up. I didn't advance any goals by even one item. Jesus that's pretty. I just unlocked/found/set up coal last night and, uh... mine doesn't look like that.  Is the golden ratio one water gen split to two generators?
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Jul 6, 2022 04:14
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Mailer posted:Is the golden ratio one water gen split to two generators? No, coal gens use 45/min and water suckers produce 120. And mk1 pipes limit flow to 300/min. You can underclock the water suckers to 75% if you want an easy 2:1 ratio though.
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Jul 6, 2022 04:27
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The popular ratio is 8 generators and 3 water extractor. You need to position the pipes in a particular way to ensure an even flow/distribution of water and to not hit the max of the mk1 pipes. Connect all the generators up to a linear pipe, then add additional cross pipes for the extractors between every 2 coal plants.
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Jul 6, 2022 04:28
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Mailer posted:Is the golden ratio one water gen split to two generators? It's actually 3 water / 8 coal gens. BUT! 3 water extractors would overfill a single mk1 pipe so you've got to be careful with how you route the water.
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Jul 6, 2022 04:30
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MerrMan posted:It's actually 3 water / 8 coal gens. So the (crudely drawn) representation of a 16-generator setup would be like this?  I'm still trying to get into the headspace on how things mix, but that seems to satisfy all the requirements as there's never a point where the full force of three extractors hits a single pipe segment.
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Jul 6, 2022 04:53
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Mailer posted:So the (crudely drawn) representation of a 16-generator setup would be like this? This is the easiest way to do it, the setup in that image should run without any issues.
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Jul 6, 2022 04:58
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"1 Water, 2 gens on a single pipe , but the water extractor is downclocked to 75%" is easy to set up and avoids pipe throughput issues
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Jul 6, 2022 13:29
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While I'm asking all the newbie questions, I'm still trying to figure this one out: I was sitting there sorting my inventory to reinvest in a glorious coal future when the grid tripped. I powered it back on and everything is fine. Following bad youtube advice (instead of reading the numbers) led to some... inefficiencies in supply to the current adhoc coal setup, which I guess is why power production wobbles like that. Did I just finally hit the inevitable coincidence when all the assemblers fired at once during a dip in coal-produced power?
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Jul 6, 2022 13:33
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Mailer posted:While I'm asking all the newbie questions, I'm still trying to figure this one out: you might not be getting enough water to your coal generators. sometimes you need pumps and the pumps are pretty weird so just really spend some time making sure everything is getting water not just coal. then expand expand expand.
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Jul 6, 2022 13:39
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Mailer posted:While I'm asking all the newbie questions, I'm still trying to figure this one out: As mentioned earlier, if you use floor holes for piping that can some times restrict flow for no apparent reason, so it's often better to just clip the pipes through the floors and add the floor holes afterwards if you want the look of floor holes.
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Jul 6, 2022 13:52
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Collateral Damage posted:Nah, it wasn't a spike in demand, but your capacity (grey line) dipped below consumption. Most likely something choked up in your water supply and several generators stopped at the same time. also pumps...man pumps are like black magic. I had to troubleshoot a part of my coal power for a long time getting water right. I tried adding more water extractors, tried more coal, tried moving the pumps around to different spots in the line...it would all pan out to a drop in power after some time. I had to rebuild the whole pipe situation it started working. No clue why, the headroom wasn't that high so only one pump needed, but it was just at that borderline of needing a pump and not needing a pump and it really didn't like the placement I had available for the pump.
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Jul 6, 2022 14:14
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Collateral Damage posted:As mentioned earlier, if you use floor holes for piping that can some times restrict flow for no apparent reason, so it's often better to just clip the pipes through the floors and add the floor holes afterwards if you want the look of floor holes. My current setup is very much learn-as-you-go and it's... yeah. It ain't great. Nothing is balanced, I'm wasting a massive amount of coal AND water, and pumps were randomly installed to the point where I've probably got an even split on "leaky faucet" and "firehose that could strip paint" pipes. The NEW setup, though. That's gonna be done right.
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Jul 6, 2022 14:18
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Yeah trying to get steady power production is difficult because of how liquids work, especially once you get to oil. Even though you might have enough water, depending on how the pipes are laid out and split, the machines on the end may not get enough to stay at 100%. Liquids slosh around in the pipes, and split based on how full the adjacent pipes are. I found the best way to supply liquids is to have the supply pipe above the first split, and then do binary tree style splits after that and don’t ever do 4 way split. Also try to keep it symmetrical. Sometimes a valve just before the first split will help prevent back flow into the supply from sloshing around. When you see that production line stay steady then you know you did it right.
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Jul 6, 2022 14:46
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Also depending on the size of the plant and the design it can take a while for a plant to reach steady state. You can make a perfectly viable system and have to wait for pipes and buffers to fill so the liquid distributes properly, meanwhile you're pulling your hair out because half your plants are turning on and off and you're not quite sure why. This is more of a problem for large fuel plants than coal, but anything with liquids can have some strange behavior until the system evens everything out. Valves can help alot but it takes a bit of experience to know where to place them.
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Jul 6, 2022 14:55
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Mailer posted:I was sitting there sorting my inventory to reinvest in a glorious coal future when the grid tripped. I powered it back on and everything is fine. Following bad youtube advice (instead of reading the numbers) led to some... inefficiencies in supply to the current adhoc coal setup, which I guess is why power production wobbles like that. There are a whole lot of bad designs shared on youtube / reddit for water pipes and anything else with fluids, because the fluid system is very weird and very difficult to learn from just playing the game. There's even stuff on the wiki that is bad advice (all three of those are bad juju to different degrees). And the most common "glam pic" of pipe stuff is the underfloor feed which looks great but can be a source of problems. My ultra tl;dr advice for newbies is: 1. Avoid buffers 2. Keep your pipe network as flat / horizontal as possible, especially where it has lots of junctions. When pumping fluid up to a higher level, have a single pipe (or as few pipes as needed for the flow) making the vertical stack. 3. Leave some headroom in your pipe flow rate, rather than trying to use all 300/min*. 4. If you have problems, post a pic of the pipe setup and I can probably tell you how to fix it. *Pipes can move 100% of their rated flow, don't believe the people on reddit who say they are bugged. But the main problem people have with pipes is that fluid can flow 2 directions at once, and both directions count against the cap. So for the pipe to move the full 300 (or 600), you have to know how to design proof against backflow. Collateral Damage posted:As mentioned earlier, if you use floor holes for piping that can some times restrict flow for no apparent reason, so it's often better to just clip the pipes through the floors and add the floor holes afterwards if you want the look of floor holes. This is probably not the floor hole itself that is doing it, but rather the fact that it's splitting the pipe up into a bunch of small segments. Lots of small segments in a run that has elevation change is not good.
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Jul 6, 2022 14:59
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My fuel plant feeds the generators from below and I have no problems. Although I used a tip that suggested issues with feeding liquid from below can be fixed by a buffer on each floor. I have no idea if it's helping or not, but once I was sure one floor was steady state I just kept repeating it.
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Jul 6, 2022 15:03
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VegasGoat posted:Yeah trying to get steady power production is difficult because of how liquids work, especially once you get to oil. Even though you might have enough water, depending on how the pipes are laid out and split, the machines on the end may not get enough to stay at 100%. Liquids slosh around in the pipes, and split based on how full the adjacent pipes are. And to think, when they first introduced pipes my initial reaction was "awesome! this will simplify things so much!"
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Jul 6, 2022 15:05
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Shifty Pony posted:And to think, when they first introduced pipes my initial reaction was "awesome! this will simplify things so much!" LMAO. I'm just happy you can clip stuff through other stuff now. If I recall correctly it was a proper nightmare even setting them up before. Now it's just a nightmare getting headroom correct.
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Jul 6, 2022 15:08
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It may help if they animated the fluid in the pipes when you hover over a pipe .
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Jul 6, 2022 15:20
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Ice Fist posted:My fuel plant feeds the generators from below and I have no problems. That's very much a "can", not "will". The vertical runs are force multipliers for backflow. If the pipes have spare flow capacity, it's no problem. OTOH if you are close to the limit it can cut flow and you end up with a machine turning on and off because it's slightly starved. I use underfeed all the time because it looks cool (that pic is mine). I also see people use it and then complain about pipes being buggy.
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Jul 6, 2022 15:23
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So huge vertical (100m or more ) vertical sections for pipes is no good ?
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Jul 6, 2022 15:32
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I’m convinced there’s a floating point rounding error in there too which causes 4 way junction (aka divide by 3) to lose just enough to cause periodic outages when trying to perfectly balance liquid which is why I suggest only ever doing 3 way junction (aka divide by 2 which works better). Honestly though as Klyith said having more supply than you use really is the best way to avoid a lot of problems. Better to have steady power than use every bit of liquid. It’s easy enough to overclock the water/oil supply a little.
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Jul 6, 2022 15:34
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