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Covok posted:Anyone else find it odd that, even though there is only like 3 or so dark magical girl shows, that Americans in the tabletop rpg scene are obessed with them? If you don't do trpgs, you may not know this, but like 99% of mahou shoujo games are plays on Madoka. Like, not all of them are bad. Princess: The Hopeful kind of sucks due to lack of vision (what if Minki Mori, Sailor Moon, and Cardcaptor were all true at once), but Magical Burst and Magical Fury by our forums own, Ewen Clueny, is good. Still, why the obession with Madoka in the trpg scene? Was it that influential in the anime scene as well? There is no way it was anything more than a cool odity: popular and probably influential but not changing the definition of the genre away from kids. the dark magical girl stuff has blown up further than ~3 series (not to take your post too literally), and you can maybe assume the trend also caused people to look back and see the dark elements in older shows too. so i guess ttrpgs having a genre trend doesn't seem that off to me when it's definitely a thing in manga/anime even recently.
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Jul 6, 2022 21:59
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Endorph posted:lol Wb endoph!
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Jul 6, 2022 22:01
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Sakurazuka posted:Sailor Moon is a dark magical girl show Yea, First season and Stars are pretty dark. Hell, Super is, too.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:03
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secretly best girl posted:I think a very specific type of broken brain latched onto Madoka for a variety of reasons and I'm not just saying this because of an ex who really really wants to be post-Rebellion Homura to the point of spending years trying to create a cult of magical girls and abusive relationships because "it's what Homura would want"!
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Jul 6, 2022 22:04
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god i wish tokyo mew mew new wasn't on hidive but also i think even CR wants you to sign up for a subscription now if you wanna keep watching stuff 😔 Endorph posted:lol welcome back!
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Jul 6, 2022 22:05
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Sailor Moon also murders about 90% of its main hero cast on screen twice (though they get better later)
Larryb fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 22:06
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Endorph posted:lol Welcome back, Endorph!
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Jul 6, 2022 22:07
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wait how are we defining "dark magical girl" shows? like, post-madoka? the only show i've heard of like that is like, "magical girl site", which is apparently Bad sailor moon has some dark parts to it, and tmm does too im p sure
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Jul 6, 2022 22:08
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Larryb posted:Sailor Moon also murders about 90% of its main hero cast on screen twice (though they get better later) Not to mention the tragic backstory of the Shitennou and later on Sailor Saturn. Shits sad.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:08
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also madoka is extremely influential but the darkness has always been a part of the magical girl genre. ofc i wouldnt be surprised if tabletop RPGs went way overboard on it but thats just the clumsy writing inherent to amateur TTRPGs. one of the earliest magical girl shows was a little mermaid inspired one where the mermaid girl on land deals with insane poo poo like child trafficking and discrimination against immigrants. they avert the seafoam ending but she has to give up her connection to the sea completely complete with an implication that she forgets her father ever existed. though all that ending drama, while good, is kicked off by her boyfriend being attacked by a gorilla that escaped from a zoo so im not sure if that adds or subtracts to it
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Jul 6, 2022 22:08
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Booky posted:wait how are we defining "dark magical girl" shows? like, post-madoka? the only show i've heard of like that is like, "magical girl site", which is apparently Bad my favorite part of wixoss is when the wish granting character goes 'you can wish for anything. except time travel. that just makes things too complicated.'
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Jul 6, 2022 22:10
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also ty everynyan
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Jul 6, 2022 22:10
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I seem to remember Tokyo Mew Mew getting pretty dark later on in the series as well Speaking of, the recent reboot seems alright so far. The first episode actually has more plot crammed into it than the original premiere did and makes some interesting changes like putting the girls in high school rather than middle school and having Mint be part of the group before Ichigo even gets her powers (meaning it's not a straight adaption of the manga)
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Jul 6, 2022 22:13
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I think Madoka is a wonderful show and definitely inspired some stuff later on, I never understood why people act like it did any super twist on the Magical Girl genre. Ok, its not PreCure or whatever, but Utena is right there too.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:14
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the unhinged side of the magical girl darkness spectrum with MGRP, Site, Magical Girls of the End, Spec Ops Asuka etc i would consider them just as much a product of Madoka's success as the more direct inspirations already mentioned + Granbelm. maybe i am off base bit it feels true even though the darkness has always been in the genre
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Jul 6, 2022 22:15
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It's truly the Evangelion of magical girls
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Jul 6, 2022 22:15
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I think it's because Madoka is really good and a low time commitment to watch since it's only 12 episodes.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:15
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Booky posted:wait how are we defining "dark magical girl" shows? like, post-madoka? the only show i've heard of like that is like, "magical girl site", which is apparently Bad I think we can also include shows like Yuki Yuna Is a Hero which also has it's Major Twist. Qualia the Purple has an uh, an arc? A chapter? Where it dabbles. Day Break Illusion if I recall correctly also probably fits. Magical Girl Raising Project; right now the "despair" element (existentialism optional) is what probably sets a magical girl anime as being in the same sort of vein as Madoka. While Symphogear can be kinda dark I kinda feel like its too generally up beat and hot blooded to fully fit, I think its more something that exists more because of Nanoha and would've existed regardless of Madoka.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:15
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think it's because Madoka is really good and a low time commitment to watch since it's only 12 episodes. yea. Sailor Moon is a thing I'd like to watch someday just because of how important it is but it's too dang long! Meanwhile with Madoka I can pop all three movies over a weekend whenever I feel like revisiting it and get it all.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:18
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Srice posted:yea. Sailor Moon is a thing I'd like to watch someday just because of how important it is but it's too dang long! Meanwhile with Madoka I can pop all three movies over a weekend whenever I feel like revisiting it and get it all. The SM manga is probably the best way to go at this point. Crystal is... not good and the ori anime is probably not for anyone who didn't watch it 20 years ago.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:20
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Fwiw you can skip SuperS completely and miss nothing
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Jul 6, 2022 22:21
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Fluffdaddy posted:The SM manga is probably the best way to go at this point. Crystal is... not good and the ori anime is probably not for anyone who didn't watch it 20 years ago. I dunno, I watched the 90’s series for the first time just a few years ago and had fun with it (in fact it’s probably my favorite incarnation of the franchise aside from the 2000’s live action series) mycophobia posted:Fwiw you can skip SuperS completely and miss nothing Or if you must, read the manga version of that arc instead as it’s at least a little better paced (hell, it actually gives the other Sailors some proper focus for the first time since the original storyline) Larryb fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 22:23
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30 minute TV procedural stuff is historically tricky to adapting to TTRPG stuff. magical girl, sentai, rider stuff all just presents the problem of either trying to create play that just replicates episode structure and being boring or doing something else and getting too far away from the cool moments you get from the shows the madoka-alikes tended to be more serialized, which i think makes them easier to work with. but really, Ibram Gaunt posted:It's normie. That's why
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Jul 6, 2022 22:23
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Fluffdaddy posted:The SM manga is probably the best way to go at this point. Crystal is... not good and the ori anime is probably not for anyone who didn't watch it 20 years ago. Yeah I figure if nothing else I'll hit up the manga at some point. I'd certainly like to check out the original anime at some point but it's not happening anytime soon.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:23
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Larryb posted:Sailor Moon also murders about 90% of its main hero cast on screen twice (though they get better later) Although that isn't necessarily a sign of having a super dark work. Dragon Ball Z meanwhile, in its most lighthearted arc, has Buu genocide the entire planet(at the heroes' own insistence) and then follows it up by having Buu kill a good chunk of the heroes and their loved ones, too. Dark is one of thosee terms everyone knows but few can precisely define. But I personally don't think "has characters dying" makes a work that dark. I think it has to have a consistent tone of hopelessness. A Song of Ice and Fire will always be my go-to example.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:23
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Thinking of watching Bakemonogatari in my lunch brraks. Good idea: Y/N?
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Jul 6, 2022 22:24
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Fluffdaddy posted:I think Madoka is a wonderful show and definitely inspired some stuff later on, I never understood why people act like it did any super twist on the Magical Girl genre. Ok, its not PreCure or whatever, but Utena is right there too. I think it's because it hit at the right time to capture the attention of a large audience of teens and tweens where it was their first time experiencing a subversive take on the genre, and did it well.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:24
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The original SM anime I dunno it has its charm. And some really neat animation sequences/gags, like when every is like trying to hide behind someone in a comically absurd conga line while trying to stay out of sight. I saw a tweet thread a few weeks back about how the different animators had really distinctive animation flourishes to the point you could tell who was in charge of animated which scene based on subtle differences in how the characters were drawn.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:24
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haruhi fans and vtuber fans constitute a circular venn diagram
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Jul 6, 2022 22:24
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I think the filler in Sailor Moon is largely charming and fun.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:26
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Endorph posted:lol hello endorph how are you today
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Jul 6, 2022 22:26
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think it's because Madoka is really good and a low time commitment to watch since it's only 12 episodes. sailor moon had a pretty dire rep in the early 2000s western anime fandom ol. it definitely had a big fanbase but also there were a ton of people who hated it and crapped on it every chance they got. you can find recent youtube videos calling it the worst anime ever made even. unsurprisingly nerds get insecure about a girly thing being popular. madoka was presented as directly in opposition to it in western fandom with terms like 'subversion' and 'destroying tropes' thrown around. ofc madoka isnt actually about that, its a commentary on morality and faustian bargain poo poo with magical girl trappings, but yknow how people get. and madoka is a pretty smooth product all-in-all in that it takes the bones of two pretty popular things (kamen rider ryuki and nanoha) and strips out most of the fat. no seriously madoka is literally just kamen rider ryuki. Thirteen Rider Decks (カードデッキ, Raidā Dekki) were created for thirteen Kamen Riders. They form contracts with monsters from the mysterious Mirror World (ミラーワールド, Mirā Wārudo), a parallel dimension opposite to our own in which only the Kamen Riders can exist. The Riders draw on their monsters' strength in exchange for feeding them the life force of the creatures they destroy. The creator of the Advent Cards (アドベントカード, Adobento Kādo) has only one rule: that there can be only one Kamen Rider. The others must be killed, and the sole victor will be granted a single wish, which leads to a conflict known as the Rider War. actually ig fate/stay night also ripped this off.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:27
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Roth posted:Thinking of watching Bakemonogatari in my lunch brraks. Good idea: Y/N? Absolutely.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:27
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Roth posted:I think the filler in Sailor Moon is largely charming and fun. If nothing else the 90’s series actually gives the other characters not named UsagI (or later Chibiusa) stuff to do on a more regular basis
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Jul 6, 2022 22:28
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TenementFunster posted:haruhi fans and vtuber fans constitute a circular venn diagram How dare you
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Jul 6, 2022 22:28
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Roth posted:I think the filler in Sailor Moon is largely charming and fun. 90s sailor moon is the best form of the series, the only point it really drags is the early filler where its just usagi or just usagi and ami. usagi isnt that interesting when she only has luna to bounce off of and ami is too nice to really contrast much with her. the show picks up a lot when it introduces rei because rei can actually clash with usagi.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:28
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Roth posted:I think the filler in Sailor Moon is largely charming and fun. I think there could stand to be a bit less while the entire team gets together (It's especially a bit of a drag at least until Rei is introduced) but yeah, I like that it gives things and characters room to breathe.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:29
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Yeah the early parts can get a little tedious when it's just Usagi.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:32
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Booky posted:wait how are we defining "dark magical girl" shows? like, post-madoka? the only show i've heard of like that is like, "magical girl site", which is apparently Bad it was popular enough to inspire a wave of gritty-and-grimdark magical girl shows, none of which was notable or memorable in any way sailor moon has some dark parts to it, but it's also got plenty of the characters goofing around and having fun, with the dark moments reserved for the climax of an arc. madoka doesn't really have very much of that, after a couple eps it's just nonstop drama for the rest of the show Endorph posted:lol wb
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Jul 6, 2022 22:33
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Fluffdaddy posted:How dare you now if you don’t mind, i have to dust all my minmay figurines
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Jul 6, 2022 22:33
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