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There was at least one tournament level game where mind control shenanigans were used, but I'd have to dig. I don't think it was a tier one tournament. e: Yeah it appeared in racewars once, "the stove" strategy. Scout and DT harass then Arbiters to recall sieged up tanks. Another issue is that generally speaking a Protoss pro player isn't going to have pro level siege tank skills. Szarrukin posted:He isn't wrong. Did you register to make that post lol Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Nov 8, 2021 |
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Nov 8, 2021 04:23
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Hope this thread comes back, I was really enjoying it.
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Dec 12, 2021 19:16
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General Calculus posted:Hope this thread comes back, I was really enjoying it. Ask and ye shall receive. Six months later, mind you, but still. Unit Spotlight: Hydralisk  The Hydra is the unit repping the Zerg on the campaign selection screen. Overview: Ringing in at 75 minerals and 25 vespene, the Hydralisk is only slightly more expensive than the Firebat, but is far more useful. At 80 HP it’s pretty tanky for a tier 1 unit, and it doles out 10 Explosive damage at a range of 4 (the same as an unupgraded Marine), with a DPS of ~16. Also notable is its speed - at ~3.7 it’s the slowest ground unit we’ve seen so far, and one of the slowest in the game. The Hydralisk Den offers two upgrades (for now): Muscular Augments, which bumps their speed up to a cool ~5.5, and Grooved Spines, which bumps their range from 4 to 5. Both of these run 150 minerals and vespene each, and as you might expect they’re more or less mandatory: if you’re using Hydras, you’re getting these upgrades. Fluff: The Slothien were large, docile creatures - picture a caterpillar with the size and temperament of a cow. Then the Zerg discovered them. The Overmind saw great evolutionary potential in these harmless herbivores and quickly integrated them into the Swarm. The venomous urticating hairs the Slothien had evolved to ward off predators were instead mutated into venomous, armour-piercing spines the Hydralisks are able to launch from their upper torso at deadly speed. Like, fast enough to pierce combat suits, tanks, and... capital starships? A good Hydra never misses pec day, I guess. The manual also notes that Hydralisks are “infamous for acting in a particularly sadistic fashion.”  The Zerg victory screen, sporting a Hydralisk atop a mountain of human skulls. Went with the original rather than the remaster because it’s iconic. Tech Fluff: Like the Zergling, the Hydra’s Muscular Augments upgrade is really just the Hydralisk’s physical makeup being altered to make it capable of greater speed. Grooved Spines are exactly what they sound like - mutations to the spines the Hydralisks fire to make them more aerodynamic and thus able to fly further. Campaign Usage: Hydralisks are powerful, well-rounded units and are the backbone of your army in the campaign. I've mentioned a couple of times that it's entirely possible to win just by building stacks of these. On all but a couple levels they'll slice through the opposition like a hot knife through butter, and if they fail, who cares? You can just get more. Like Marines, I don't know how often we'll use them as our main offensive force just because it'd be nice to showcase other units too, but we could. We could dominate with these.  A Hydralisk, seconds before killing the hapless Lester and Sarge. Competitive Usage: Man, Hydras are weird. They're a staple unit but also they aren't? A group of them can deal out a ton of damage very quickly to just about anything - these guys will shred Goliaths, Dragoons, Battlecruisers, you name it. Their main weakness is that they're a unit that usually needs to be built en masse and that tends to clump together. In other words, splash damage absolutely devastates them. This makes Hydralisks a risky affair - deadly powerful, but one wrong move and they're toast. They need to be managed delicately - something that Zerg doesn't always have time for. As a result, Hydras while relatively common, aren’t seen as much as you'd expect. Of course, there's another side to them - they give access to a unit we'll see in the expansion. But we won't touch on that here. Vs Terran: This is where Hydras are the weirdest. The fact that they do Explosive damage means that they aren't incredibly effective against Marines, and since Bio is the most common Terran build in this matchup you won't really see them all that often. If you do, it'll be for AA purposes - trying to snipe Vessels and Dropships. In quite a few Terran spotlights I've mentioned that Mech is becoming more popular in TvZ and this is where Hydras are more interesting. They do extremely well against Goliaths, Vultures, and tank mode Tanks and do extremely poorly against siege mode Tanks. So there's this intricate dance where the Hydras are trying to catch the Terran forces off guard or on the move to pick away at them. It's not an easy thing for the Terran to deal with, but one wrong move by the Zerg could spell disaster.  These Hydras caught the Terran mech force with their pants down. The results aren’t pretty. Vs Protoss: Early game, Hydras are a real force to be reckoned with here. They decimate Dragoons and, with careful micro, Zealots as well. They’re also the ideal tool for obliterating some of the big, beefy buildings Protoss often uses to wall off their bases (“Aren’t Zerglings better for razing buildings quickly?” In theory, yes, but barricades are often structured in such a way that doesn’t leave much room for a good surround. Hydras don’t need to worry about that limitation). And on top of that, they’re a great counter to Protoss’ early air harassment capabilities.  S13 Ro.24 Day2 (Tastosis) 43-51 screenshot.png) The Zerg player, Sacsri, launches a fairly typical Hydra assault on Protoss legend Bisu’s wall at the ASL earlier this year. However, once Protoss gets upgrades, especially on their Zealots, things get a little dicier - and once they get their higher tier units out, forget it. We haven’t seen it yet but Protoss has a bevy of powerful splash damage options that can wipe out a stack of Hydras with a single shot. Their high damage potential at range means that Hydras are technically still a viable option at this stage, but you’d have to be really good with your micro. If you’re not pro level, forget it, and even most pros will consider Hydras too risky at this stage. As a result, builds that revolve around pumping out stack after stack of Hydras (with some Mutas mixed in for harassment purposes) to attempt to hamstring the Protoss or even seal the deal before they climb too high up the tech tree is a staple of ZvP. If they fail and the game transitions into the later stages, though, you’re going to want to change course quickly. Vs Zerg: Nope. Nada. Zilch. Can anyone think of an even semi-recent competitive ZvZ match where Hydras were built? In ZvZ you want Zerglings, then you want Mutas. You just don’t have space in there for Hydras - and even if you did, they struggle against both of those units.
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Jul 2, 2022 00:35
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This is a pleasant surprise to have back!
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Jul 2, 2022 00:46
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Nice to see this again indeed. In passing, I'll note that I find it hilarious that someone gave names to the species that the Zerg assimilated a few million years ago. And also still that mutas can fly in space.
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Jul 2, 2022 01:00
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Pretty sure the Zerg weren't around millions of years ago... That sounds wrong. They like to use the word "evolution" but it really means genetic engineering in this context.
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Jul 2, 2022 01:02
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Knew I kept this bookmarked for a reason, glad to see it back!
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Jul 2, 2022 08:20
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I read all of this thread recently and just caught up before the hiatus. Very pleasant surprise to see it return! Love the analysis.
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Jul 2, 2022 09:58
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Good to see you back, hope you stick around and keep updates coming.
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Jul 2, 2022 10:16
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Clarste posted:Pretty sure the Zerg weren't around millions of years ago... That sounds wrong. They like to use the word "evolution" but it really means genetic engineering in this context. The creation of the "Zerg" as we know them (intelligent race, united by the Overmind, incorporating other species, ability to travel between stars, etc) are a fairly recent development. The timeline when this happened isn't explicitly stated AFAIK, but we can ballpark it because we do know that (1) this happened after the conclusion of the giant Protoss Civil War (Aeon of Strife) in ~500 B.C., (2) the Zerg first learned of the Terrans in 2439. For reference, the first mission of Starcraft is dated 2498 (and remember, the Zerg are already pretty sizable in numbers). So that sets a boundary of about 3,000 years at max.
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Jul 2, 2022 15:18
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I mean there's a huge retcon between original Zerg and HotS Zerg. I don't think all the Zerg strains were originally supposed to have come from one planet. At the very least, "big docile caterpillars" would not have been able to hang with the rest of the primal Zerg.
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Jul 2, 2022 15:46
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achtungnight posted:Good to see you back, hope you stick around and keep updates coming.
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Jul 2, 2022 19:01
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These are my favourite unit in the game, and might be the best cost/effectiveness ratio in the game as well. It's fun to just make 200 of these and go bananas.
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Jul 2, 2022 22:28
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Hydras are great, but I get why they're not super useful for competitive play. Still not the worst things to splash outside of ZvZ though. It's still weird sometimes though to think of a unit that's so good on paper like the Hydra not being a staple build option. Whole hell of a lot better then their awful SC2 showing. RevolverDivider fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jul 3, 2022 |
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Jul 3, 2022 03:57
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RevolverDivider posted:Hydras are great, but I get why they're not super useful for competitive play. Still not the worst things to splash outside of ZvZ though. It's still weird sometimes though to think of a unit that's so good on paper like the Hydra not being a staple build option. For sure. Part of the issues with Hydras is just Zerg's tech flexibility - a unit that's good against everything is less valuable when it's easy for you to switch gears and produce units that are great against the specific threats you're facing. The idea of "Hey I'll go Hydras because it gives me a ground unit that's still capable of picking off Science Vessels" is less appealing when it's such a simple matter to just fart out some Scourge. JustJeff88 posted:These are my favourite unit in the game, and might be the best cost/effectiveness ratio in the game as well. It's fun to just make 200 of these and go bananas. Yeah that's often the highlight of the Zerg campaigns for me. Particularly the last mission of the expansion Zerg campaign, where it's funny to overcome such overwhelming odds just by throwing wave after wave after wave of Hydralisks at them. They're so powerful and, like you said, mass so well. In theory their 10 damage isn't going to do that much against a 500 HP, 3+ armour Battlecruiser, but in practice that never seems to matter because it's so easy to get so many of them.
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Jul 3, 2022 22:52
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oh my, how nice it is to have both a Warcraft and a Starcraft LP running at the same time. Welcome back!
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Jul 4, 2022 17:13
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The New Dominion So… yeah. Since it’s been a good half a year since the last update, let’s start with a recap for everyone who doesn’t feel like going back and rereading all the other updates. Episode one saw us taking on the role of Matt Horner, a Confederate Magistrate overseeing the quarantine of the fringe world of Mar Sara in response to the arrival of both the Zerg and the Protoss. We met up with the marshall Jim Raynor and were abandoned to the Zerg by our Confederate bosses for seemingly no reason. We were rescued by the terrorists freedom fighters the Sons of Korhal, led by Arcturus Mengsk and Sarah Kerrigan, and helped them overthrow the Confederate presence in the Antiga system, and even convince a Confederate general, Edmund Duke, to turn coat - but whoops, the Zerg and Protoss turn up there, too. Turns out the Confederacy’s been using psi emitters to lure the Zerg as a sort of ultimate bio-weapon. Mengsk decides that turnabout’s fair play and uses the psi emitters to unleash the Zerg against the Confederates. After he genocides Tarsonis, the largest planet in the sector, and abandons Kerrigan to the Zerg, we joined Jimmy in getting the hell away from the Sons of Korhal. That brings us to episode two, where we take on the role of a (so far) nameless Cerebrate, created by the Zerg Overmind on the ruins of Tarsonis to oversee a tiny brood with but one charge - to protect a mysterious chrysalis. With the aid of fellow cerebrates Daggoth and Zasz, we kept the chrysalis safe from the remnants of the now-defunct Confederacy and transported it through a Protoss blockade. Now we have warped with the chrysalis to the Zerg Swarm’s base of operations in the sector, the planet Char…   Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper’s true power. I have felt these emanations growing ever stronger since leaving Tarsonis. Surely this Chrysalis is a power to behold. Already you speak. This bodes well for our machinations. Indeed. Know, my child, that as you grow in strength and cunning, so shall you become greater of spirit and will, manifesting a unique identity among the Swarm. Just as our warriors wield both claw and fang to eviscerate our enemies, so too are the diverse Cerebrates of the Swarm unique of thought and spirit, yet bound together in one will: the will of the Swarm. Is this why I am now more aware of the power of the Chrysalis? To a degree… Yet the Chrysalis itself grows stronger. The images and impressions it casts forth echo further each day, coming unbidden to us… And others. The psionic emanations of the Chrysalis have reach out into the depths of space and lured our enemies to us! Even now, we are aware of their plans: [distorted, faint] All right. All squadrons close formation and scan for hostiles. Emperor Arcturus believes that there’s Zerg out here, so it’s our job to flush ‘em out! I don’t want any slip-ups this time! We’ll show these critters that they can’t run from the Terran Dominion! Engage the Terran forces with care. Your priority is to protect the Chrysalis at all costs. It will be done.Some interesting developments. Turns out Mengsk has declared himself emperor of something called the Terran Dominion. It should be unsurprising that Duke's still leading his armies. Also, if you hadn't guessed, the red-ish cerebrate in the briefing represents us, the player character. The picture is one I ripped off the internet but it's a temporary stopgap until I can maybe edit together something else. And here’s our start:   A decent little setup. Some Drones, some Mutas, some Hydras, could be worse. A couple of things worth highlighting right off the bat. First, it’s a new tileset! Now that we’re on the volcanic world of Char, we’ve got the ashlands tileset to match. Doesn’t actually impact anything gameplay-wise, but it’s kinda cool. Second, and more important, is this:  As the briefing implies, our little Chrysalis is growing up. It’s no longer a carryable object but is now a building - which means that it has hitpoints and can therefore be destroyed. Protecting it is now an actual objective, rather than just a fluff objective. It’s also worth noting that it’s got very few hitpoints - a stiff breeze could know this sucker over, so we need to be careful. We start by sending our Mutas out to scout a bit:   That thing in the second shot is a map doodad - a decorative feature depicting a depleted Vespene geyser. It's not actually useable. It does, however, indicate our expansion spot. I know I complained about this last update, but that was months ago so I don't feel bad whining about it again: Man it sucks to not have ComSat Stations anymore. Terran has a lot of good stuff, but I think they're what I miss most, even more than Tanks and Vessels. Meanwhile, we have our Hydras take up defensive positions around the Chrysalis:  Not taking any chances there. While this is going on, I'm Droning up hard. You might remember back in the first Zerg mission where I talked about the uniqueness of Larvae and the opportunity cost that comes along with that. I'm going all economy at the start, and probably will do so on most Zerg missions - the campaign tends to give you enough at the start to deal with early attacks. Speak of the devil:    Even before sounds of combat or attack notifications go off, you know you're being hit by Marines by the telltale "Ahhh, that's the stuff" of Stimpack going off. I'd actually forgotten that was a sound everyone heard, not just the Terran player. And man does it matter - note how much damage one of our Mutas takes from just two Marines. It's not fun being on the receiving end of Stimpack. That being the case, maybe it's time we start taking our defenses more seriously. We plunk down what will be the first of several Sunken Colonies:  And we also start to fan our Overlords out to watch for incoming attacks:  This is a key use for Overlords, by the way - if they're going to be sitting around providing supply, they might as well do so somewhere that they can keep an eye on things. Since they're so slow, you do run the risk of them being sniped, but often the intel they provide can be well worth the cost of replacing them, or even being briefly supply blocked. Shortly after our Sunkens finish, the next attack wave comes in:   Ooof. Good thing I didn't build any Zerglings because that many Firebats would obliterate them. Our Mutas and Hydras are also nearby and able to quickly move up and eliminate the attackers without any trouble. Now, you might be thinking "Hang on a second. Zerglings, Mutas, Hydras - where's our new unit?" Well, sadly, we don't get one this mission... Except we kind of do? Our Hatchery just finished morphing into a Lair, and that will help me explain:  The Lair has three new things that it didn't have last mission. These are all upgrades for our humble Overlords. One is a sorely-needed movement speed upgrade:  It takes the Overlord from being the slowest unit in the game to just being moderately slow. They're faster than Battlecruisers, at least. I always prioritize this upgrade even if I don't need it because I'm impatient and find the unupgraded Overlord's snail's pace maddening. Next up is a vision upgrade:  This is only the second time we've seen one of these (the first being the Ghost). Obviously handy for scouting and Detecting things, but probably the least important upgrade here. I'm still going to get it in just about every mission because it's fun to kit out your units with as many upgrades as possible. If you haven't played the game before, you might be thinking "Okay these upgrades are kinda neat I guess, but do they really qualify as kinda-a-new-unit?" Well, that brings us to the third upgrade, Ventral Sacs:  It allows our Overlords to transport ground units. That’s right, in addition to being our Supply Depot and our aerial Detector, the Overlord is also our Dropship. These guys wear a lot of hats. In more important news, Lair time also means it's Spire time:  While that happens, we decide to resume the scouting we'd begun earlier, but we end up running into more resistance than four Mutas can comfortably handle:  Which brings us to a point worth making about this mission: We're still not in "Difficult" territory yet, but it's definitely a ramp up from the softballing of the first two missions. Which I like - it makes sense that Duke's Alpha Squadron is a bit more serious than the Confederate remnants we fought on Tarsonis. Take, for example...   I've mentioned the concept of a "runby" a few times - why bother dealing with defenses when you're fast enough to just scoot past them and raid the enemy's mineral line? The AI's showing that off here: their Vultures just ignored the Sunkens and went straight for our Drones. We have to scramble all forces to defend:      Held them off, but we lost a good half-dozen Drones. Brutal. Better make sure something like this doesn't happen again:  Also, fun fact: Drones only leave behind a corpse when they die if they're empty-handed. Drones that are returning minerals or gas to a Hatchery will instead explode when killed. The more you know. Here's a random shot of the Ragnasaur, this tileset's critter:  Did I show off the Badlands critter? Well, if not I'll do that at some point. I realize it doesn't really matter. Anyway, time to demonstrate the majesty of Zerg macro:  This is going to be my normal setup from here on out. Four Hatcheries (well, three plus a Lair) in my main base so I can produce units one stack at a time. Or, in this case, two stacks:  We're making Zerglings. This seems kinda stupid, doesn't it? I mean, we've seen that the enemy isn't skimping on Firebats. But I have a plan. To win this fight, we're going to need Mutalisks, and to get a good flight of Mutalisks up, we're going to need the expansion. The amount of Marines guarding the expansion is too much for our current Mutas to handle but two stacks of Zerglings will obliterate it. Which is exactly what happens.        Expansion: Seized. Man, gotta love it. Their work completed, these Zerglings can chill out here and defend the ramp.  Cerebrate! Beware! Mind your charge! Um. So that's not great. We've got a sizeable bio force streaming in to the Chrysalis's unprotected flank, and enough Firebats that I definitely don't want to send my Zerglings in there. Our Hydras and Mutas will have to do.        Man, look at that. Five Marines, that's all. A squad so small you can barely see them in those pictures. And our Mutalisks barely defeated them. Three of them shot out of the skies in seconds with only one survivor. That's not what you want. See, Mutalisks vs Marines is a tough matchup. Each unit excels against the other, so often victory is a matter of positioning and attack angle. When the Marines catch Zerg with their pants down, as was the case here, Mutas are in trouble. But it's also about numbers: As units that do splash damage, Mutalisks benefit greatly from larger numbers. Four Mutas struggle against five Marines; eight Mutas decimate ten Marines. In pro games you'll often hear commentators talk about a "critical mass" of Mutalisks, and that's what they mean - the magic point at which you have enough Mutas to do massive damage both upfront and splash, turning them from a kind of underwhelming unit to the terrors of the skies. And that is what we're looking to achieve here. Normally the magic number is going to be a stack. Fortunately, despite our setbacks our expansion continues apace:  And soon we've got the gas to take the skies.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I43o0zRXEnA  While we were doing that, the enemy was hitting our expansion, but fortunately Sunken Colonies can shoot through the earth to a lower level. Unfortunately, they've brought along something a bit more serious than Marines...      That's right, the Siege Tanks are coming out. Fortunately, they're no match against Zerglings. Or a wing of Mutas. And I had both. Anyway, with that dealt with, let's go on the offensive. You may have noticed that my Mutalisks are all clumped together. That's using a technique called "Magic Boxing" which will probably get its own post, and it's crucial to effective Mutalisk use, allowing them to focus fire with ease. Allow me to demonstrate:  A Missile Turret. Not something you'd ordinarily want to fight with a short-range fliers like Mutas. Ooooh, also note the projectiles flying towards the Turret. I think the Muta shots look really cool in the Remastered. Anyway.     The greater precision afforded by Magic Boxing allows us to duck in, launch a volley at the Turret, duck out, swing back around, and finish the Turret with a second volley, all without taking a casualty. Neat. We start to do it again, but get rudely interrupted:  The Wraiths are coming out to play. Fortunately, their Explosive attacks only do half damage to our Mutas, which are small units. They're also grossly outnumbered, even when Duke flies in some Marine reinforcements.     Again, once you hit critical mass and have shots bouncing everywhere, Mutas become a terrifying force. We find the entrance to their base, but I'm not liking the looks of that Bunker:  We instead swing around and approach it from another angle. Choke point? What choke point?     We finally sustained some casualties, but who cares? We're Zerg, we can replenish those almost instantly. Case in point:  And oh look, we've found the (or at least a) source of the Wraiths. One of which chose the exact worst possible moment to finish production:  Duke tries to send some Marines in, and a bloody battle ensues.       Wave after wave of Marines are throwing themselves at us. They might eventually even do something through attrition - except we can replenish our forces way faster than they can.         And with that, the battle for the airstrip is won. We lost half our Mutas, but they sent what must be almost the entirety of their Infantry corp at us, probably even emptying out Bunkers. Duke's on the ropes, now. Oh, by the way, check out these shots:   See the tank driving by and then getting repaired by the SCV? Sometimes when the AI's being attacked it'll just throw nearby units at it, even in cases like this where a Siege Tank can't do anything about it. Hey, guess who's fully reinforced?   We raze the Barracks, but it turns out there's still more infantry left than I thought. Boy, if only there were some way to have known that ahead of time. Say, some sort of building that would allow us to easily scout the area without any risk to our units. Like, say, I dunno, some sort of STATION for COMMUNICATIONS SATTELITES. Anyway.   With all that's going on you'd expect things to be all quiet on the home front, but that's not entirely the case. Check this move out:  A Wraith comes in plinking at the Sunkens. It's out of range of the Spore Colonies, so logically we should send the Hydras to deal with it, right?  Turns out there's a surprise waiting for us - a Siege Tank deployed just out of sight. This actually could have been a brilliant ambush by the Ai, tearing my Hydras to pieces. Instead the Tank just keeps firing on the Sunkens and dies almost immediately. This does, however, remind me that I have a stack of Hydras sitting around, and I get to thinking - those would be pretty useful to clear out all the missile turrets everywhere. Here's what four Hydras in an Overlord look like. You know, in case you were wondering.    (While this was going on, the Mutas added the Factory to their list of casualties):  Alright, let's bring in the Hydras and mop...  ...up?       That was a lot of Siege Tanks. Way more than I had anticipated. The Mutas cleaned them up quick, but not quick enough to keep the Hydra stack from being wiped out. Fortunately, that also seems to spell the end of Alpha Squadron's resistance. Also, I remembered these guys exist:  I brought them over to do some base razing. Soon... All right you sorry bastards. Fall back! Fall back! Hold, Cerebrate. Do not pursue them. Cerebrate, you must stay and relocate the Chrysalis to a more secure location. Daggoth shall deal with the remaining Terran forces. Very well. Go, then, Daggoth, and bring swift wrath to the enemies of the Swarm. Do not presume to give orders, Cerebrate. You may speak to us as equals once you have earned a name. Cutscene time! It's our first Zerg one, and it shows us just what the Overmind meant by the "swirling images" the Chrysalis was sending out:   We start with an orbital view of Char.  Massive Overlords floating overhead.   A Hydralisk keeping watch over the Chrysalis.   The volcanic surface of Char.  Back to the orbital view.  Back to the Overlords.  A closeup of the Hydralisk... and one word.    : Jimmy
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Jul 6, 2022 03:53
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if i had any patience, I'd replace the one word with 'chump'.
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Jul 6, 2022 04:54
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Man, StarCraft 1’s campaign was so fun. So was the use map setting scene.
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Jul 6, 2022 05:13
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Cerebrate, you have defeated all the terrans in the area and Daggoth is chasing them away from here so clearly you must move the chrysalis to another location. 
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Jul 6, 2022 07:52
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Aces High posted:oh my, how nice it is to have both a Warcraft and a Starcraft LP running at the same time. Yes that is good.  Planet Char was named for a galactic hero also known as the Red Comet. The Swarm will devour all the universe. The Swarm is all powerful. You may join the Swarm as food! … whoa, wrong game! Sounds like the enemy was using Zapp Branigan tactics on this mission- with their usual effects.
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Jul 6, 2022 08:27
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Back when I was a kid playing this level seeing all the siege tanks made me feel like the ai was cheating 
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Jul 6, 2022 14:29
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One of the reasons that I am rubbish with the Zerg (I am also rubbish with the other factions) is that I have this mentality that every unit needs to be proteced and conserved, and the Zerg aren't built to roll that way. In SC1 the Terran work best for me because bio units can be medic'd and mechanical units can be SCV'd. Zerg unit regenerate, but it takes forever and there is no other form of healing (I think?) for Zerg units in SC1 - at least SC2 has queen healing. Protoss really mess with my perfectionist tendencies because, while their units are expensive and need to be preserved, there is no way to heal non-shield damage apart from mind controling a Terran SCV. In SC2, that option is gone as far as I know. I realise that that is a deliberate design choice for balance purposes, but having a damaged unit that I cannot repair bothers me. I wish that Protoss at least had a recycling mechanic.
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Jul 6, 2022 15:42
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JustJeff88 posted:In SC1 the Terran work best for me because bio units can be medic'd What is this devilry of which you speak? This thread is so old I can’t remember how strict the spoiler policy is
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Jul 6, 2022 17:58
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smax posted:What is this devilry of which you speak? Well, the spoiler policy was to not mention things we haven't seen yet, but that really doesn't make much sense and I'm not sure why I made it the policy. I might revisit that, at least as far as comments are concerned. Plot elements are a different matter, but I have no idea why I thought people should spoiler future units. Oh well. Poil posted:
Haha right? And let's not forget, we're in the Heart of the Swarm™ here. Should be pretty secure just about anywhere. I think it's just a justification for why the next mission is a different map. JustJeff88 posted:One of the reasons that I am rubbish with the Zerg (I am also rubbish with the other factions) is that I have this mentality that every unit needs to be proteced and conserved, and the Zerg aren't built to roll that way. In SC1 the Terran work best for me because bio units can be medic'd and mechanical units can be SCV'd. Zerg unit regenerate, but it takes forever and there is no other form of healing (I think?) for Zerg units in SC1 - at least SC2 has queen healing. Protoss really mess with my perfectionist tendencies because, while their units are expensive and need to be preserved, there is no way to heal non-shield damage apart from mind controling a Terran SCV. In SC2, that option is gone as far as I know. I realise that that is a deliberate design choice for balance purposes, but having a damaged unit that I cannot repair bothers me. I wish that Protoss at least had a recycling mechanic. Oh man! I have the same beef with Protoss! Permanently damaged units annoys me for no good reason. I like the soothing green of everything being fully healed.
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Jul 6, 2022 20:26
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Yeah, the lower left portion of the enemy base in this map is positively infested with Siege Tanks and Turrets. Trying to hit this base with a ground attack is a recipe for disaster, and you really need to move in with Mutalisks and Overlord drops. Tanks in Siege Mode absolutely decimate Zerglings... but only so long as you can keep the Zerglings away from the tank.
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Jul 6, 2022 20:46
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I'm of a belief that, in any strategy game, it should always be highly preferable to save a unit, even one down to 1 HP, than to replace it.JohnKilltrane posted:Well, the spoiler policy was to not mention things we haven't seen yet. I apologise with all my heart, John. I'm so used to playing Mass Recall with Brood War units always on that I completely forgot.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:35
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JustJeff88 posted:I'm of a belief that, in any strategy game, it should always be highly preferable to save a unit, even one down to 1 HP, than to replace it. Getting over this absolutely makes the Zerg campaign wildly easier, at least in the missions where you can build reinforcements. I rapidly went from "I am making it but by tighter margins than I'd like" to "MORE HATCHERIES MEANS MORE MUTAS AND ZERGLINGS" and it was wonderfully effective.
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Jul 7, 2022 00:45
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Just playing Stukov in Starcraft 2 co-op gets you over that real fast for RTS games. He habitually makes - and loses - thousands of units per game. 
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Jul 7, 2022 00:48
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JohnKilltrane posted:The New Dominion It has been half a year so I'll repeat myself and say that I am still holding out for Abra, Abram, or any other variation of Abraham. The reason why is spoilers. Also this thread reminded me that I installed Mass Recall at some point.
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Jul 7, 2022 00:50
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JustJeff88 posted:I'm of a belief that, in any strategy game, it should always be highly preferable to save a unit, even one down to 1 HP, than to replace it. No worries at all! There's nothing to apologize for. Like I said, I'm second-guessing the policy hard. disposablewords posted:Getting over this absolutely makes the Zerg campaign wildly easier, at least in the missions where you can build reinforcements. I rapidly went from "I am making it but by tighter margins than I'd like" to "MORE HATCHERIES MEANS MORE MUTAS AND ZERGLINGS" and it was wonderfully effective. Yup. It really wasn't until I tried the all-Hydra Zerg campaign approach that I learned this. Zerg really does become easier and more fun to play - in the campaign, at least - once you learn how to stop worrying and love taking casualties.
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Jul 7, 2022 13:36
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Low health units do the same damage as high health, embrace bloodshed
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Jul 7, 2022 14:43
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That one guy on YouTube that does challenge playthroughs of SC2 and WC3 for taking no losses still hasn't tackled Brood War, and I wonder if it's because the game wasn't really designed to minimize losses. Of course if he has and I just haven't noticed those videos yet then I take it back. Brood War just seems like one of those games (and Warcraft 1&2) that actively expects you to take some losses no matter what. poo poo, the Terrans currently don't have a way to stop their Barracks units from dying
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Jul 7, 2022 14:48
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Nah, SC1 Deathless straight up isn't possible in any reasonable fashion, he understands this and isn't masochistic enough to try.
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Jul 7, 2022 15:16
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No, I agree... none of the StarCraft games were designed around preserving all units. WC3, though, I could see being much more favourable to that because it's a game about dozens of units vs hundreds in SC.
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Jul 7, 2022 15:54
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WC3 units also have way longer combat lifetimes. You can lose three zerglings in one frame from a siege tank you couldn't even see.
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Jul 7, 2022 16:34
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megane posted:WC3 units also have way longer combat lifetimes. You can lose three zerglings in one frame from a siege tank you couldn't even see. Also very true.
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Jul 7, 2022 17:12
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How would you even do Zerg deathless? Zerg is the epitome of "we have reserves"* warfare, in a game where everyone has reserves. *Or "we can grow reserves" in their case. Same thing.
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Jul 7, 2022 17:49
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Omobono posted:How would you even do Zerg deathless? Zerg is the epitome of "we have reserves"* warfare, in a game where everyone has reserves. My guess would be mass muta stacks as soon as those unlock. Can't die if anything that gets close to you melts.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:50
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BisbyWorl posted:My guess would be mass muta stacks as soon as those unlock.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:59
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