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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The meter slowing down when you use SAB attacks. Yes but have you considered someone being an idiot and trying to push stagger entirely by alternating attacks with RAV Sazh and Vanille because they only buffed/debuffed at the start of combat because that is what they normally do in RPGs? It is me. I am the idiot.
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Jul 7, 2022 17:34
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Barudak posted:I can pick FFVI if you'd prefer, since it takes about the same if not longer amount of time to have full party control in that game, because agreed FF IV sucks I kind of have the same problem with 6 but at least it does eventually open up its system
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Jul 7, 2022 17:53
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a good rpg makes interesting use of the time when you have limited tools and then also gradually gives you more tools and increases the complexity of the combat so you have a reason to use them if you send waves of one-hit enemies in the beginning, you've wasted my time
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Jul 7, 2022 18:20
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Barudak posted:I can pick FFVI if you'd prefer, since it takes about the same if not longer amount of time to have full party control in that game, because agreed FF IV sucks FFVI is not good for several hours so this checks out. I think it was after my first replay of IX many years ago now when I realized how long it takes you to get real control of your party. It's like halfway through the game, if not a little more. But for al its very real flaws, XIII does get more poo poo for doing the same thing as other FFs.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:26
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The same poo poo but worse. Put in an actual Gold Saucer in Nautilus, and settlements across Cocoon. A puzzle or two wouldn't hurt.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:30
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grieving for Gandalf posted:a good rpg makes interesting use of the time when you have limited tools and then also gradually gives you more tools and increases the complexity of the combat so you have a reason to use them This is why any port of ff1 after the ps1 version seems really pointless to me I'm not gonna say that the gameplay in the first half of ff1 nes was especially fun or interesting but by removing most of the resource scarcity and adding auto-retargeting there's not really anything in there that isn't the game basically playing itself
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Jul 7, 2022 18:44
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Inspector Gesicht posted:The same poo poo but worse. Put in an actual Gold Saucer in Nautilus, and settlements across Cocoon. A puzzle or two wouldn't hurt. Oh absolutely. The FFX-XIII "but they're both linear" argument has been done to death, even just on the forums and stuff I visit, and it's always pointed out why it worked in X and not XIII. There's a lot XIII does so spectacularly wrong it's notable as a flaw unique to it. But getting a party late just isn't one of those things for me.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:48
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That's why you mod the level curve back to NES and run from like every fight. Yes I made the level curve mod.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:48
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FFXIII: Unlike other Final Fantasies, there is no MP, HP is restored after battle, and there is no real penalty for losing a battle. Previous titles allowed you to play at your own pace (even with ATB, you could turn on Wait); Final Fantasy XIII rates you based on how quickly you end the battle, and the battle system is based around dealing an insane amount of damage in a short window. I can see how it would be difficult for folks to change gears, or notice the other small things the game is trying to communicate in the limited character sections. I can see that, if you're too focused on actually selecting different attacks, or are more interested in the amount of damage you're doing, you don't notice how different roles affect the stagger meter. I can maybe see how you might blunder into the later chapters with a class selection that is something like com/com/rav, sen/med/med, rav/rav/sen, completely ignoring syn or sab because you underestimate their value... But, I don't think there's any excuse not to notice what happens when you switch paradigms and sometimes do it really quickly. Maybe not understand the full mechanics behind it, but, the early game forces you switch fairly often due to your limited selection of classes that pattern recognition should kick in. Really, the star system should be a clue that your tactics aren't working and may want to change it up. Seeing as FFXIII doesn't have New Game+, is the example of linearity, arbitrarily caps your stat gain per chapter, and often even limits the classes and characters you have available in the early game, the game practically screams "you're doing it wrong" if you are consistently getting 3 or fewer stars. I don't mind it when not every single detail of how battle works is spelled out when it is observable or easy to discover with normal gameplay. I don't need Xenoblade 2 level of tutorials.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:52
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I can understand why someone would see themselves getting bad ratings on battles and dismiss it out of hand because gently caress you I'm winning the battle what does it matter if I didn't "do it right"? People are stubborn.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:56
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I mean I knew I was doing something wrong I just wasn't sure what to do right.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:56
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I would say FF13 and Xenoblade two are pretty comparable in that both are terrible at explaining what they want you to do while technically telling you what to do
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Jul 7, 2022 19:00
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Score attack games take a certain mentality that people who are accustomed to RPGs may not care to acquire. Traditionally, the only measure of progress that matters is whether you got to the end, and the resources acquired along the way. Giving players a report card was something new to the series and rare in the genre, and it's quite understandable that some people just wouldn't give a poo poo about their grades until it affects something they do care about.
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Jul 7, 2022 19:01
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Alxprit posted:I can understand why someone would see themselves getting bad ratings on battles and dismiss it out of hand because gently caress you I'm winning the battle what does it matter if I didn't "do it right"? People are stubborn. I remember when I first played the game my instinctive response to getting my teeth kicked in by the boss was to turtle up, play defensively and keep someone on healing duty. It's what I've done in most JRPGs I've played, then or now. I learned somewhat better in my second run, I guess, but it does just fly in the face of amy previous experience.
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Jul 7, 2022 19:06
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NikkolasKing posted:I remember when I first played the game my instinctive response to getting my teeth kicked in by the boss was to turtle up, play defensively and keep someone on healing duty. It's what I've done in most JRPGs I've played, then or now. Even in other JRPGs that is a pretty bad way to play. The rule to healing is that doing damage is also a method of healing by preventing further damage. Unless you are in danger zone for death it is always more effective to use a turn on Holy instead of Cure 3
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Jul 7, 2022 19:10
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Octopath, while turn-based, had a similar stagger mechanic. What if we put that combat in a more linear game, with better writing and less grind. Would we have a winner?
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Jul 7, 2022 19:11
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one of the acid tests I use for playing turn-based JRPGs is if using buff/debuff commands is ever worthwhile versus just continuing to spam damage moves
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Jul 7, 2022 19:12
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The stagger mechanic looks like it's becoming a Final Fantasy mainstay, which is cool because it's something I liked a lot in XIII. There's a version of it in VII Remake and apparently also in XVI.
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Jul 7, 2022 19:12
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Hellioning posted:I mean I knew I was doing something wrong I just wasn't sure what to do right. I remember in pork lift and wateyad’s LP he would do things like heal up his party when there was one enemy left with almost no HP. It was a really fun LP to listen to, I just had to ignore the video because it was so frustrating to watch. So much time spent on the Crystarium too. His extremely cautious play style did let him beat some notoriously difficult bosses fairly easily though.
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Jul 7, 2022 19:13
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Feels Villeneuve posted:one of the acid tests I use for playing turn-based JRPGs is if using buff/debuff commands is ever worthwhile versus just continuing to spam damage moves also Crystal Project
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Jul 7, 2022 19:34
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Feels Villeneuve posted:one of the acid tests I use for playing turn-based JRPGs is if using buff/debuff commands is ever worthwhile versus just continuing to spam damage moves 
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Jul 7, 2022 19:38
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DACK FAYDEN posted:well if you haven't played Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass you sure should Be warned that Jimmy can be a real rough (in terms of content dealing with sensitive subjects) kinda game so maybe don't play it if you're looking for something light
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Jul 7, 2022 19:40
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That loving Sned posted:I remember in pork lift and wateyad’s LP he would do things like heal up his party when there was one enemy left with almost no HP. It was a really fun LP to listen to, I just had to ignore the video because it was so frustrating to watch. So much time spent on the Crystarium too. I've talked about it a few times but my experience of the first two Bart fights are totally different between my two playthroughs. In my first run, Bart 1 was really hard and I don't remember Bart 2 being tough at all. In my second run, the one where I understood things a bit more and had also done a ton of grinding on Pulse, Bart 2 was impossible for me. I ended up having to use up all my grinded points to unlock additional Roles for Snow and maybe Hope, I forget but definitely got a new thing for Snow. I can't remember why Bart 2 was nothing for me in my first run and such a serious roadblock in my second run. I definitely didn't have additional Roles unlocked or anybody in my first playthrough. My only guess is I was less concerned with star ratings and winning as fast as possible. If you just take your time, you can beat almost anything in the game in one attempt, probably.
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Jul 7, 2022 19:48
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Bart 2 has some specific parties that can make things easier since you still only have baby versions of certain roles for people.
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Jul 7, 2022 19:55
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NikkolasKing posted:I remember when I first played the game my instinctive response to getting my teeth kicked in by the boss was to turtle up, play defensively and keep someone on healing duty. It's what I've done in most JRPGs I've played, then or now. This is a bad way to play most rpgs. It leads you to doing slow and boring stats where you actively ignore engaging with the combat systems to try and slowly chip away at it. It's that kind of thinking that leads people to think the only way to win is to grind where they don't have to turtle up. A common reaction to rpgs that expect you to use their systems and master them.
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Jul 7, 2022 20:43
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That loving Sned posted:I still don't know if the people live on the inside or the outside of Cocoon. Do they live on the inside and have a Fal'cie as an artificial sun? Then why can't you see the ocean curve up into the sky in Bodhum? Or if they live on the outside then why do you never see Pulse in the sky? I decided to do a little bit of an effort post on this subject, because gently caress you, I felt like it. Okay. (All figures from googling unless otherwise noted.) According to the devs, the surface area of Cocoon is about the same as that of North America. North America has a surface area of 9.54 million mi², which is 24708486.57 kilometers². A sphere with a surface area of 24708486.57 kilometers² has a diameter of 2804.45281 kilometers. According to this site, the formula for the distance to the horizon when standing on the outer surface of a sphere is:  Since we're on the inside of a sphere, we need to modify it slightly to a = √[(-1*(r - h)² - r²)] - we're trying to see how far you can see before the surface curves up in front of you. So the formula is, using an average height of 2 meters: √[(-1*(2804.45281-0.002)² -r²)] which comes out to 3.35 kilometers. So thats how far you should be able to see before the ground curves up into your line of sight. Of course, just like the horizon on the outside of a sphere, this would be affected by a lot of factors: weather, height above sea level, clarity of the air, and so forth, and we have exhausted and possibly exceeded my mathematical abilities. I took a screenshot looking out over the ocean in Bodhum and guess what:  That looks like it's curving up to me! Now, I'm currently in the Sunleth Waterscape area, and they're pretty consistent with it here too:   Even in the battle scene background, they're consistent with it!  So, mystery solved, yes, the ground curves up into the sky in Cocoon. One last thing about FFXIII: Apparently, when you complete your focus and turn into crystal, your clothes don't make the transition:  What I'm saying is, make the choice whether you're going to go for the chaste Aphrodite Rising From The Sea pose, or the confident Starman "look upon me and despair, ye mighty" pose.  Also, for all it's faults, the game is still very nice looking. If I've hosed up any of the math, please let me know. Agents are GO! fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jul 7, 2022 |
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Jul 7, 2022 20:45
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Barudak posted:So the issue is, you are doing the games systems with two people. The game splits itself into multiple groups of two where each group has different spreads of skills and thus fights different enemy types with different patterns and have different tools to deal with them. This isn't it limiting the system per se, so much as it is making sure you have everything you need to make informed decisions when it ups the difficulty in chapter 9 and gives you 3 party members and full spread of mixed enemy formations. It's mostly annoying at the beginning because, if you've played through to the end, you can't paradigm shift for quite awhile, and even when you can you don't have all your tools to go really fast The game still functions just fine. It's just once you've gotten a taste of the beauty that is the fully unlocked FFXIII combat system it sucks going back to not having all your tools again, at least imo woah, that's cool. I never would've noticed that tbh, I just sort of assumed they didn't bother Weird Pumpkin fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jul 7, 2022 |
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Jul 7, 2022 20:45
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I went from learning there was a FF13 released to learning it was set in a sky orb and seeing the pictures of the gently curving horizon in prerelease and ad copy to buying the game all in about 15 minutes during release week. I had mostly checked out of following new FFs in the late 2000s after trying and failing to get into FF12 repeatedly so it was a pleasant surprise a good FF released despite dev hell.
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Jul 7, 2022 20:59
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Agents are GO! posted:I decided to do a little bit of an effort post on this subject, because gently caress you, I felt like it. Okay. This is cool and I like the effort.  They should have just gone with something like this though. Makes it clear that you're not on a typical planet. You could look up or to the horizon and see the destination your characters are travelling to. Almost like navigating by the stars, but you're actually seeing the lights of Palumpolum in the sky or something. I don't even remember if you see Eden in the sky outside of that one cutscene it's established in.
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Jul 7, 2022 21:35
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any game with a Flanitor can't be all bad. also only the last hitpoint matters
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Jul 7, 2022 21:53
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That loving Sned posted:This is cool and I like the effort. I actually forgot to mention a part of this: the cloud layer! The reason that there does seem to be a horizon or skyline is the cloud layer. Think of it as a slightly smaller thin-skinned sphere inside of the larger sphere of Cocoon. When you are trying to look at at something far away, you're looking through the relatively thin surface of the clouds, this isbwhy you can see far-away cities as "constellations" in Cocoons sky. However, when you try to look at a midrange target, your sight line is going parallel to the surface of the cloud layer, and therefore through a much larger amount of clouds. Edit: I'm guessing that's Ringworld, and you can see the same effect there, but since Ringword is comparatively huge (it circles a sun), the clouds are much lower. quote:You could look up or to the horizon and see the destination your characters are travelling to. Almost like navigating by the stars, but you're actually seeing the lights of Palumpolum in the sky or something. I think you might be half-remembering the game, because this literally happens. IIRC, at the beginning of the Vile Peaks section, Sazh points out the lights of Palumpolum to Hope, because that's Hope's hometown. GloomMouse posted:any game with a Flanitor can't be all bad. also only the last hitpoint matters That was such a great pun name. Agents are GO! fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jul 7, 2022 |
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Jul 7, 2022 21:56
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Flanitor is a top tier monster name and I hope future FFs use it.
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Jul 7, 2022 22:15
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The Twinning was the flanitor's time to shine in FFXIV but the devs failed completely. Music is A+ but how could you forget them, Square?
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Jul 7, 2022 22:18
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PunkBoy posted:Flanitor is a top tier monster name and I hope future FFs use it. 
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Jul 7, 2022 23:08
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give me a gel can dance flandango
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Jul 7, 2022 23:36
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Flanitor rules Chainspell in FFXI also rules
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Jul 8, 2022 00:04
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Need a game with the job system for flans.
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Jul 8, 2022 00:10
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I'm ready for Final Flantasy
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Jul 8, 2022 00:12
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zedprime posted:Need a game with the job system for flans. Phial of Flantasia to turn yourself into a flan
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Jul 8, 2022 00:21
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Agents are GO! posted:Cocoon excellent post FrostyPox posted:Chainspell in FFXI also rules This is gonna be an incredibly specific gripe about an incredibly tiny and obscure detail, but I remember when I played FFXI as a kid there was some patch either just before or just after Chains of Promathia where they changed the combat log message for you hitting a 2-hour like Chainspell from "[Character name] uses Chainspell!" to "[Character name] uses Chainspell." I hated that so much
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