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Cross posting to this thread as you all might also know.AnimeIsTrash posted:Were there any plans discussed for the subcontinent's partition outside of those discussed between the british and the ultras?
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Jul 6, 2022 15:10
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/War_Takes/status/1543603875231502339?t=MxwxGf3TPrnFezxpEHL_TQ&s=19 RWN's series on the civil war has really made me realize how revisionist the history I was taught in school was.
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Jul 6, 2022 15:10
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MeatwadIsGod posted:As brilliant a self-own as this is, I think July 4th is an even more important one because Vicksburg is taken and Confederate troops are beaten at Helena so it's the decisive smackdown that the Confederacy is cut in half and they no longer have a way to get troops or supplies across the Mississippi in any great numbers. And then the salty losers that they were, didn't celebrate the 4th for ~70 years.
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Jul 6, 2022 17:00
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I think it's important to remember that the Civil War lasted till 1877 and the South won
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Jul 6, 2022 17:54
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A Buttery Pastry posted:the uk isn't a democracy How so?
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Jul 6, 2022 18:05
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Weka posted:How so? who's the head of state again
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Jul 6, 2022 18:14
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Weka posted:How so? e: oh yeah, the capture of state media by one political party too, further decreasing the public's ability to make informed decisions A Buttery Pastry has issued a correction as of 18:25 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 18:21
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let's not forget that the feudal system is still a thing in the UK
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Jul 6, 2022 19:55
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Venomous posted:let's not forget that the feudal system is still a thing in the UK Another indicator of being undemocratic is voter participation rates, which are kinda poo poo.
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Jul 6, 2022 20:21
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britains a shithole
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Jul 6, 2022 20:26
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Powerful royal institutions, headed by a queen that has been in power for as long as basically any politician has been in office, an unrepresentative political system, as well as laws that allow the powerful to suppress basically any stories that cast them in a bad light. Most people in the UK seem to support keeping the monarchy so I'm not sure getting rid of it would be democratic. FPP might not be perfectly democratic, but then what is? It is a flawed democratic system. Athens was a democracy, just a very flawed one. The last two are just problems you tend to see in democracys. You would probably see them in some hypothetical ideal democracy.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:14
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You are literally posting this unironically
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Jul 6, 2022 22:48
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I mean, the US isn't a democracy either. Your vote is meaningless, by design.
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Jul 6, 2022 23:20
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:You are literally posting this unironically Oh poo poo did you take that as a moral justification for the UK in any sense? I'm not really a fan of democracy, although it's not necessarily a bad thing. The UK would be an example to me of a democracy that stinks, like real bad. You seem to have some sort of higher standard of democracy than me though. Would you mind telling me what it is and how it avoids the pitfalls of something like Blightey's democracy?
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Jul 7, 2022 01:13
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Weka posted:Most people in the UK seem to support keeping the monarchy so I'm not sure getting rid of it would be democratic. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?
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Jul 7, 2022 01:15
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StashAugustine posted:Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain? Tyranny against the British is like inflicting pain on a bacteria; does it really count?
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Jul 7, 2022 01:46
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Weka posted:Oh poo poo did you take that as a moral justification for the UK in any sense? I'm not really a fan of democracy, although it's not necessarily a bad thing. The UK would be an example to me of a democracy that stinks, like real bad. I'm not on trial here. No monarchy is a loving democracy
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Jul 7, 2022 02:02
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Weka posted:Most people in the UK seem to support keeping the monarchy so I'm not sure getting rid of it would be democratic. I definitely would not call Athens a democracy either. The percentage of the population who were able to participate was like 30%, and only 10-20% did. There is no world where that is a democracy.
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Jul 7, 2022 02:39
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I'm not on trial here. No monarchy is a loving democracy I'm sorry if my asking you to explain your position made you feel attacked buddy. What if you could vote for the king? I really feel like you're coming at this from an American democratic ideals perspective and that's a pretty narrow view. A Buttery Pastry posted:If something is sufficiently flawed compared to the standard, then it should not count as belonging to that group. And while I am not sure I'd call any existing state a true democracy, the UK is so far from meeting the standard that it doesn't even belong to the charitable "flawed democracy" group. The world where Athens is a democracy is classical Greece, where it was more democratic than most. What actually existing polities would you consider good enough to count?
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Jul 7, 2022 03:11
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Weka posted:what if you could vote for the king? What if there was no King, ever?
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Jul 7, 2022 03:22
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no such thing as "democracy" there are democratic practices that can be adhered to, but there is no government that is an open democracy the way people think that democratic liberal societies are. There is always some cavaet in the system which can be manipulated. An upper house, a lower house, an executive. This leads to there being levers of power that individuals within the system can apply pressure to. There are different systems designed to serve specific ruling classes but the end result is the same, all the power concentrated in the hands of a small number of societal elites. Just because those elites tug the forelock to a figurehead in the form of a queen doesn't necessarily make it Not A Democracy. Its a constitutional monarchy. Which is a parliament with a queen as a figurehead. The power is in the hands of the party members, who are backed by concerned citizens, very wealthy ones usually. That this particular figure head has an honest to God cult of personality complicates things for the politicians. Had the queen died young I think you'd see a much greatly reduced royal family (and not just because she didn't give birth to all the important ones.) Anyway, the point is you're splitting hairs describing dictatorship of the bourgeois.
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Jul 7, 2022 03:23
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Weka posted:The world where Athens is a democracy is classical Greece, where it was more democratic than most. Weka posted:What actually existing polities would you consider good enough to count?
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Jul 7, 2022 03:32
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:What if there was no King, ever? america’s founding fathers appear in the clouds with a big thumbs up. Once we get rid of the monarchy everything will be fine…
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Jul 7, 2022 05:03
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TheSlutPit posted:america’s founding fathers appear in the clouds with a big thumbs up. Once we get rid of the monarchy everything will be fine…
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Jul 7, 2022 06:41
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Weka posted:Most people in the UK seem to support keeping the monarchy so I'm not sure getting rid of it would be democratic. How the gently caress was Athens a democracy?
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Jul 7, 2022 10:45
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Don't look at me they invented the word.
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Jul 7, 2022 12:23
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A Buttery Pastry posted:America got rid of the title of king, not the monarchy. The American president is a monarch. He's actually an executive because America is a business.
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Jul 7, 2022 12:58
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HootTheOwl posted:He's actually an executive because America is a business.
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Jul 7, 2022 13:49
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Tankbuster posted:Don't look at me they invented the word. Greeks lie. They have amazing food though so I forgive them.
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Jul 7, 2022 15:23
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:What if there was no King, ever? So you would deny the people what the majority of them wants for ideological reasons? Perhaps you too think democracy ain't that great. Orange Devil posted:How the gently caress was Athens a democracy? A certain category of people voted on laws. Much like now when anyone but the most bedtime hating anarchist thinks that the right to vote should be limited to certain categories, ie over a certain age. Our selection of these categories is probably better than theirs. However in some ways it was more democratic than modern democracys, being direct rather than representative. Democracy is a system and you all shouldn't assign it a positive moral value. It's just hamburger brained nonsense. Southpaugh posted:Anyway, the point is you're splitting hairs describing dictatorship of the bourgeois. This fellow gets it.
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Jul 7, 2022 16:14
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what if we create a system of government for just the fellas
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Jul 7, 2022 16:36
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AnimeIsTrash posted:what if we create a system of government for just the fellas there was that group of swedish nazi bodybuilders who wanted to start a male ethnostate in the woods but i dunno if that's still on
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Jul 7, 2022 16:45
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Weka posted:So you would deny the people what the majority of them wants for ideological reasons? Perhaps you too think democracy ain't that great. This is the politics version of “we should let people sign slave contracts.”
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Jul 7, 2022 16:54
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YOLOsubmarine posted:This is the politics version of “we should let people sign slave contracts.”
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Jul 7, 2022 17:59
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Dustcat posted:there was that group of swedish nazi bodybuilders who wanted to start a male ethnostate in the woods but i dunno if that's still on riff it out
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Jul 7, 2022 18:15
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YOLOsubmarine posted:This is the politics version of “we should let people sign slave contracts.” I think it's pretty clear from what I've been saying I think people should not have complete freedom of choice to do things like this. What is up with you all processing criticism of democracy as my using democracy as a presumed good?
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Jul 7, 2022 18:23
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So when does the class of people allowed to vote in a democracy become so restricted that it no longer qualifies as a democracy, in your view?
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Jul 7, 2022 19:29
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AnimeIsTrash posted:The Korean War - Bruce Cumings I finished that awful book about the Civil War and started this. I'm only on the second chapter but this book rules. Excellent recommend
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Jul 7, 2022 20:27
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Looking for a good book about the history of the soviet union that isn't Tankie nonsense but isn't Communism BAD! Ditto one about the rise of Putin thats not free market good, Putin not free market therefore Putin evil.
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Jul 7, 2022 21:00
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I asked vyelkin about books on that subject a while ago and this is what he gave me:quote:1) Stephen Kotkin, Magnetic Mountain, a thick academic book about the nature of Stalinism and Soviet life. Really good and surprisingly accessible for an academic history, and very influential on the field's understanding of life in the USSR.
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Jul 7, 2022 21:12
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