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I basically agree with ImpAtom here, with added frustration and irritation due to America's carnival of gun violence which I keep getting reminded is good, actually, and perhaps cool, and so forth. e: To be clear I understand nobody specifically in this thread is making that argument, in this thread, or probably intending to communicate it; I am articulating a reason for annoyance. Like nobody brings up how they're not doing Momo-facilitated drops of anesthetic gas which would have a similar effect and have even been shown to be threatening to the point of being partially effective (eventually) against Gigantomachia, the biggest guy. And unlike gun poo poo, which could plausibly be something Horikoshi just isn't thinking much about due to Japan being much lighter on culturally-important gunplay than America, that's something that's been officially brought up in the storyline. Which has the same answer of 'that would be boring and also the ending is clearly being fast-tracked.'
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Jul 8, 2022 03:46
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I wish the new chapter would come out so people would shut up about guns.
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Jul 8, 2022 03:47
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I don't think anyone is some kind of demented firearms obsessive because they think a military not trying to save it's country from an existential threat is a bit of a plot failing.
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Jul 8, 2022 03:48
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TheKingslayer posted:I don't think anyone is some kind of demented firearms obsessive because they think a military not trying to save it's country from an existential threat is a bit of a plot failing. I'm not saying that, to be clear. I'm saying the US' general gun obsession leaks into everything, even the minds of people opposed to that culture.
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Jul 8, 2022 03:50
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Nessus posted:And unlike gun poo poo, which could plausibly be something Horikoshi just isn't thinking much about due to Japan being much lighter on culturally-important gunplay than America, that's something that's been officially brought up in the storyline. as a reminder this conversation started because a character showed off his latest powerup: strapping a bunch of machine guns to himself, complete with belt-fed ammunition
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Jul 8, 2022 03:51
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In terms of actually meaningful criticisms, I will say that it will be utterly hilarious if the many repeated attempts to give Momo something resembling a character arc die here with her not participating in the fight and totally relegated to offscreen support.
Arist fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 03:53
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Quote is not edit
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Jul 8, 2022 03:55
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ImpAtom you're very passionate about this and I get the impression that you've read quite a few Marvel comics so I'd like to bring back an earlier post and make that the topic:oh jay posted:If Hatsume Mei came out in a War Machine suit and started blasting, you'd all lose your poo poo. I'd lose my drat mind because holy poo poo Hatsune Mei is on the battlefield doing something?! Momo's spilling out bandoliers of bullets like they're her intestines and Mei just keep blasting like Danny Devito? Hype as gently caress. Anyway, the idea of War Machine being involved in anything beyond Earth is interesting. Have they ever given him something fun like Uru or Vibranium bullets and he's gotta do reverse reloading and strap on new barrels and triggers after they inevitably break from use? Also, why is Momo not producing gun parts? She's a smart girl, she should be able to follow blueprints easily.
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Jul 8, 2022 03:56
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Arist posted:In terms of actually meaningful criticisms, I will say that it will be utterly hilarious if the many repeated attempts to give Momo something resembling a character arc die here with her not participating in the fight and totally relegated to offscreen support. I think that's exactly it for her. in the epilogue, she'll be in a position of authority
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Jul 8, 2022 03:57
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Kanos posted:Are you familiar with the concept of internal consistency? We accept characters being uncommonly skilled, absurdly durable, or lucky to an unbelievable degree because the story makes it clear that that's normal in the setting. People don't ask why Luffy can do weird poo poo in One Piece because it's internally consistent in the setting that people who eat devil fruit get weird magic powers. What's normal and acceptable varies from setting to setting. If you're watching a gritty realistic crime drama set in 1920s england you're going to be put off when the detective solves a mystery by ignoring the mystery entirely, activates his hidden superpowers, and kills the mastermind criminal with a kamehameha. If you're watching Army of Darkness you're going to be put off if Ash revs his chainsaw arm and gets his shoulder dislocated by the torque, falls down, and dies. The problem here is that you are acting like guns were a huge big important detail that suddenly shifted, and not something which only came up in terms of superpowers or "we are showing this place is heavily guarded." It is more internally consistent that guns just aren't actually used much or else there wouldn't be a good reason that every hero wasn't given guns. The setting is not one where guns are relevant or important except if they are tied to specific superpowers. That doesn't mean people are immune to guns but because it's a superpowered setting where even people whose quirk has nothing to do with that specific power set are fast and durable enough that melee combat is what everyone defaults to unless they have a range-focused Quirk. The examples you provided are gigantic shifts to the setting that would change everything about them and not continuing the series' already existing trend of guns being irrelevant without superpowers, which is also an existing trend in the genres it is part of. Guns are not that important in action stories, even ones that go dark places, and doubly so for ones not set in America, unless they specifically are designed with guns being important as a key part of the story/aesthetic/whatever. That doesn't mean guns don't exist in the setting and can never be used in the setting. It means that, outside of exceptional situations, they are not treated with the same effectiveness they are in the real world unless it's dramatically appropriate. Batman can fight a dozen dudes with guns while holding a conversation with Robin and be concerned if the Riddler has him tied up with a gattling gun pointed at him if he answers a question wrong. They are not contradictory because there is a base level of 'power' that is necessary for any weapon or skill to be relevant in a setting like that. It isn't realistic but fiction runs off rules of drama and worldbuilding doesn't need to explain it. (And if anything attempts to explain dramatic necessity tend to lead to fuckin' stupid stories about why Batman doesn't kill the Joker or whatever.) This applies to any fiction. Worldbuilding is about creating an interesting world to inhabit, not necessarily a logical one. You'll get authors who do hyper-focused magic systems or whatever that have a lot of cool internal consistency but even then they are hyper focused in one specific area. Most writing, especially aimed at teens/young adults, is trying to hit emotional points, not realistic ones. If anything trying to cover every bit of worldbuilding just ends up creating more inconsistencies. That doesn't mean you don't have to be consistent but it depends on what you're being consistent about. MHA isn't about guns. They are irrelevant to the story except as background dressing or superpower fodder. It not focusing on guns is not internally inconsistent because it isn't about them and it isn't trying to be, and the more time it focused on guns the harder it would be to justify half the cast using their quirks instead of a really good gun, but a complete absence of guns in any way would also need to be explained. "Guns exist but they really don't matter to this story" is how a story is written. RareAcumen posted:ImpAtom you're very passionate about this and I get the impression that you've read quite a few Marvel comics so I'd like to bring back an earlier post and make that the topic: War Machine actually has been involved in a lot of off-Earth stuff. He also went through the "get a magic symbiote suit because Venom was cool" thing in the 90s and he's often on the sides of big epic battles. Most recently he actually dating Captain Marvel and died fighting Thanos. (This was actually the spark for Civil War II) Like Iron Man he also just gets a shitload of new suits depending on the plot. His usually are more gun-focused than Iron Man's because as mentioned War Machine's power set is "Iron Man Suit with Guns instead of Lasers" and sometimes those are space guns. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 04:01
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the guns are beside the point, it's the military not showing up in any form that's the weird part
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Jul 8, 2022 04:04
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The Japanese military, you mean. The American military already showed up, because of course it did.
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Jul 8, 2022 04:08
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Jen X posted:the guns are beside the point, it's the military not showing up in any form that's the weird part I can absolutely get behind "it's weird the military isn't at least handwaved" but that doesn't really have anything to do with the guns in the prison or whatever.
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Jul 8, 2022 04:08
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The country has fallen apart and the heroes have said that this is basically all they have left to stand against All For One and his army, so I just assumed anything resembling a military was gone by now. 
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Jul 8, 2022 04:12
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So not to disrespect anyone's opinion or anything but considering what's happening in Japan I'd kinda like to just not discuss guns anymore, so I'm going to stop here. I apologize if I've left anything unresponded to.
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Jul 8, 2022 04:19
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Yeah, that seems like a good idea
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Jul 8, 2022 04:20
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Jen X posted:the guns are beside the point, it's the military not showing up in any form that's the weird part The Japanese military isn't real. It's an SCP that only materializes to try and then fail to stop Godzilla. Ask yourself, where was the military when Rita Repulsa made a shark the size of the Statue of Liberty rampage across Saitama?
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Jul 8, 2022 04:41
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loving Americans I swear to god
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Jul 8, 2022 05:32
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ImpAtom posted:So not to disrespect anyone's opinion or anything but considering what's happening in Japan I'd kinda like to just not discuss guns anymore, so I'm going to stop here. I apologize if I've left anything unresponded to. this seems like a good move
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Jul 8, 2022 05:43
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RareAcumen posted:The Japanese military isn't real. It's an SCP that only materializes to try and then fail to stop Godzilla. Saitama killed it in one punch, so the military wasn't needed.
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Jul 8, 2022 05:45
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Pretending guns don't exist means I can also pretend that Nagant didn't show up and explode over, like, 5 chapters. Yeah, this is much better.
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Jul 8, 2022 07:20
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wow a billion new posts the last chap must've really been something!! oh
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Jul 9, 2022 16:07
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Hori's on break this week.
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Jul 9, 2022 16:21
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Hori's on break this week. Best chapter in a long while when you think about it.
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Jul 9, 2022 17:10
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On the edge of my seat wondering how many pages it’ll be until Bakugo’s big moment from the last chapter is totally invalidated by Shiggy-For-One’s bullshit.
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Jul 9, 2022 18:20
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RareAcumen posted:Also, why is Momo not producing gun parts? She's a smart girl, she should be able to follow blueprints easily. momo has a useless quirk so of course she is relegated to the sidelines. Unlike the extremely main guy who can sweat nitroglycerin. which is something Momo can also do
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Jul 9, 2022 18:31
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TheHan posted:On the edge of my seat wondering how many pages it’ll be until Bakugo’s big moment from the last chapter is totally invalidated by Shiggy-For-One’s bullshit. It'll be by like the second or third page. Everyone will get a panel of "Did that do it!?" or "We have to attack now while he's still stunned!" and then Shigaraki will make a snarky comment or go "did you really think it was that easy?". Maybe he'll pull something new out and smack around one of the pro heroes.
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Jul 9, 2022 19:38
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Casey Finnigan posted:momo has a useless quirk so of course she is relegated to the sidelines. She could also do it more effectively by just creating shaped explosives outright, instead of having to rely on sweating nitroglycerin She could also replicate quirks of like half of her classmates in a more effective way as well. 
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Jul 10, 2022 11:00
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Lt. Lizard posted:She could also do it more effectively by just creating shaped explosives outright, instead of having to rely on sweating nitroglycerin I don't think she could do that nearly as fast (or at least with as much duration/"stamina") as Bakugou, which is kind of important given the way Bakugou uses his explosions. Also, wasn't it mentioned somewhere that Bakugou also has a body capable of handling the stress of propelling himself with explosions?
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Jul 11, 2022 00:53
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I want the last chapter of this series to just be Momo saying gently caress it and soloing everyone
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Jul 11, 2022 01:07
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Ytlaya posted:I don't think she could do that nearly as fast (or at least with as much duration/"stamina") as Bakugou, which is kind of important given the way Bakugou uses his explosions. You might be thinking of part of Bakugo and Midoriya's final exam versus All Might? It was mentioned in that arc that the huge explosions his grenade bracers cause is actually too much for his arms to handle if he was making a blast that big straight out of his palms. The bracers let him make extremely large blasts without potentially breaking his own arm or shoulder with the recoil. But I think he does mention that he's trained extensively to be able to handle smaller blasts like the ones he uses for flight. It's been a bit since I read that arc though. At any rate, while Momo could absolutely replicate nitro or some other kind of explosive, she wouldn't be able to produce as much of it over the course of a fight as Bakugo can (especially since as he gets worked up, he only sweats more).
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Jul 11, 2022 01:07
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Bakugo is innately resistant to his own explosions, and normal shonen/superhero story "everyone is notably tougher than real life baseline" handles the problems that the force of flinging yourself around with explosions would cause even if the actual booms didn't hurt you. There are limits, of course, like the physical recoil from letting off explosions that are too big without support items will break his bones, but I think that's more from the physical blast force rather than the heat. Momo could probably trivially replicate the actual firepower of Bakugo's explosions by manufacturing bombs and such, but the main thrust of what's supposed to make Bakugo good at fighting is that he's a natural combat genius with an inherent gift for knowing exactly how big of an explosion to fire in what direction to achieve a desired result quite literally on the fly. If there's any trait one could say Momo hasn't been shown to have, it's the ability to make split second on the fly decisions.
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Jul 11, 2022 01:08
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Momo can't fight as well as Bakugo because she's a girl and this is a fightboys shounen manga. If Momo was a boy and the protagonist she would've been a combination of Batman and McGyver, capable of winning any fight with 2 minutes of prep.
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Jul 11, 2022 15:34
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Mymla posted:Momo can't fight as well as Bakugo because she's a girl and this is a fightboys shounen manga. If Momo was a boy and the protagonist she would've been a combination of Batman and McGyver, capable of winning any fight with 2 minutes of prep. Truly girls don't fight well in this manga where one of the most popular characters is kung fu bunnygirl
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Jul 11, 2022 15:41
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ImpAtom posted:Truly girls don't fight well in this manga where one of the most popular characters is kung fu bunnygirl Literally the exception that proves the rule, why do you think she’s so well-liked
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Jul 11, 2022 15:55
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TheKingofSprings posted:Literally the exception that proves the rule, why do you think she’s so well-liked There are like a dozen other examples between students and pro heroes. Momo is just not one.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:03
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Ochako is cool when she remembers/is allowed to do things 
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Jul 11, 2022 16:07
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Most everyone else has like, at the very least a particular hero niche they are shooting for and are very good at. Meanwhile it's not very clear what Momo even wants to do or if she has any plans. She'd make a great rescue hero! But I don't recall her showing any particular inclination towards that in the series. And she's uh, just not training in the right areas to be a good combat hero either. I guess trying to do everything at once and freezing up and failing because of it -is- her biggest character flaw.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:48
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ImpAtom posted:There are like a dozen other examples between students and pro heroes. Momo is just not one. Mirko stands above and beyond them because she went out with a specific task in mind and single-handedly succeeded so well at it that sheer dumb luck was the only reason the raid failed
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Jul 11, 2022 17:03
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TheKingofSprings posted:Literally the exception that proves the rule, why do you think she’s so well-liked If you ignore Mirko, one of the main villains and also one of the most effective/scariest murderers on the villain side despite barely using her power to fight is Toga. Jirou was just allowed to do something significant for possibly the first time ever, so that was nice. Ochako is pretty cool when the manga ever gives her any screen time. Momo mostly stands out because she has gotten screen time but most of that screen time is how she sucks despite having what amounts to a bullshit cheater power, which is deeply unfortunate.
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Jul 11, 2022 17:50
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