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Darth Walrus posted:A martyr is still a corpse. Not everyone is all that fussed about that sort of thing, particularly when seeing someone you hate dead is a more pressing concern. Didn't Abe have cancer? Seems like he could've just waited a few years
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Jul 8, 2022 12:12
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jeffreyw posted:I read Bloomberg mention the assassin was just that pissed off about Abe, which feels like one of those bad Japanese mistranslations to be honest. So far as I can tell the only word on the motive has been this after he was arrested, presumably during interrogation: quote:現場で逮捕された41歳の容疑者は「安倍元総理大臣に対して不満があり、殺そうと思って狙った」という趣旨の供述をしている一方で、「元総理の政治信条への恨みではない」とも供述しているということです。 "I was dissatisfied with the former PM, so I thought I'd kill him." And then later: "It wasn't anything to do with his politics." So either he's just being evasive right now or he really is just a crank who felt personally slighted by Abe in some way. (Which is what happened with the yakuza guy who shot the mayor of Nagasaki; it wasn't a crime thing, it was over parking tickets or something. It would be odd if this was something similar, but maybe he got drummed out of the JSDF due to Abe shuffling some stuff around or something.)
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Jul 8, 2022 12:51
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Hell of a long time to hold a grudge, he hasn't been in the defense force for over 15 years.
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Jul 8, 2022 13:18
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Wrex Ruckus posted:Didn't Abe have cancer? Seems like he could've just waited a few years Yeah when I first heard the news I assumed it was this, “oh I guess he was sicker than I thought.” Kinda stunned when I went on to read it was assassination.
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Jul 8, 2022 13:22
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Charles 2 of Spain posted:Hell of a long time to hold a grudge, he hasn't been in the defense force for over 15 years. Lone political assassins tend not to be the most stable of people. Holding a grudge for 15 years is entirely not outside the realm of possibility.
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Jul 8, 2022 13:22
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CottonWolf posted:Lone political assassins tend not to be the most stable of people. Holding a grudge for 15 years is entirely not outside the realm of possibility. I'm also basing this on my uncle who still bitches about getting kicked out of the Coast Guard under Clinton
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Jul 8, 2022 13:27
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The guy left his job before Abe became PM though. I think it would have to be some other reason.
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Jul 8, 2022 13:32
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Rochallor posted:So far as I can tell the only word on the motive has been this after he was arrested, presumably during interrogation: You can't really trust quotes that come out of interrogation in Japan. Notice how all the articles about assaults and weird pervert poo poo always have the same exact explanations? 'I did it to relive stress.' 'I did it because it gave me a thrill'. Japanese interrogation is all about feeding an explanation and grinding the suspect down until they say 'yes'. So the police say, "You've been stressed at your job and you did this to relieve stress, right?" the tired suspect says "yes" and then the news article says 'The suspect is quoted as saying he did it to relieve stress'.
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Jul 8, 2022 13:49
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He seems like your typical incel crank; I doubt we’ll find he had super coherent and well-thought out reasons.
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Jul 8, 2022 13:56
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LyonsLions posted:He seems like your typical incel crank; I doubt we’ll find he had super coherent and well-thought out reasons. what is this post based on? Is the Japanese Navy full of incels? Did Abe decline his advances? What?
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Jul 8, 2022 14:29
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Is there literally any reason to assume his previous career in the navy in any way shape or form led to this or are people just grasping at what’s at hand for now?
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Jul 8, 2022 14:35
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BigglesSWE posted:Is there literally any reason to assume his previous career in the navy in any way shape or form led to this or are people just grasping at what’s at hand for now? No, yes
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Jul 8, 2022 14:36
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aleph?
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Jul 8, 2022 14:54
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I would take anything about motive with a large truck full of salt at the moment. I know it’s all the rage to complain about reporters parroting lines from police in the US, it’s even worse in Japan in that regard. I don’t think it will come from any of the broadsheet newspapers, but I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the weekly magazines dug in and found something on this guy and more on his motive. But that will take a while, and the rest of the process leading him to a likely death sentence will also take some time as well.
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Jul 8, 2022 15:28
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On the plus side the assassin is fantastic at making cartoonish weapons https://twitter.com/EVostox/status/1545400661914710016
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Jul 8, 2022 15:50
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Japanese Gun Otaku :/
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Jul 8, 2022 16:19
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Tesseraction posted:On the plus side the assassin is fantastic at making cartoonish weapons https://twitter.com/EVostox/status/1545400661914710016 That dude straight up made an infernal machine à la 1835 France.
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Jul 8, 2022 16:22
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https://twitter.com/NoxDawn/status/1545393231092908032
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Jul 8, 2022 16:43
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Surely if it had been Kojima he'd just have run away and hidden until the alert got cancelled.
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Jul 8, 2022 17:38
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It's surprising that no one is blaming China yet.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:33
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America Inc. posted:It's surprising that no one is blaming China yet. Someone ITT already blamed Ukraine.
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Jul 8, 2022 20:02
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MadDogMike posted:Surely if it had been Kojima he'd just have run away and hidden until the alert got cancelled. Video footage of the police running around confused looking for the shooter only for a cardboard box to slowly slide into an alleyway.
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Jul 8, 2022 20:09
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Someone ITT already blamed Ukraine. this very same thread unironically thought the Red Army were anything other than a Cold War era boogieman and outright deny the influence of the yakuza/CIA in contemporary Japanese politics so it checks out!  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 8, 2022 20:32
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Might as well put in this here for newbies who don't know who Abe was Shinzo Abe first came to prominence by promoting a weird right wing conspiracy that the mainstream media and even most members of the LDP (Japanese conservative party) thought was absolute bullshit, but turned out to be 100% correct. The theory, which was actually completely right, was that North Korean agents had kidnapped 13 Japanese nationals in the late 70s and early 80s, including a 13 year old girl. Like there were literally North Korean submarines kidnapping random people in Japan for no reason. His first real presence on the world stage was convincing then-prime minister Koizumi Junichiro to walk out of economic negotiations with North Korea unless they returned the kidnapped citizens, and then when North Korea let them leave to see family, he convinced the prime minister to not cave into North Korean demands and go back on their promise to return them back to Korea, because they are Japanese citizens. This makes the far right love hime because he is super tough on North Korea, and gets him into positions where he could be on committees at the Education Ministry where he helped select which history textbooks could be used in schools. That's why Japanese school history books in the 90s were super hosed. Abe doesn't believe comfort women were real, war crimes committed by Japan were both Cool and Good, and everything great that happened in Korea is actually Japanese, and he was a head of the Education Ministry choosing the school history books. As a result of this, Abe is super popular to the far right faction of the LDP, and his place at the Koizumi cabinet makes him popular to his sub-faction, leading to him being elected president of the party and then to the prime minister position. His first time as Japanese PM is mostly notable for the largest LDP defeat since 1990, and that time he got into a diplomatic slap fight with a Japanese-American member of Congress because the latter made some comment about the Japanese empire which led to a months long back and forth. Abe resigns as prime minister in 2007, then like a goddamn phoenix made out of bad opinions he surges back in 2012, following the collapse of the DPJ (center-left part), becoming the first prime minister ever to resign and then come back. He spends the next 8 years absolutely destroying Japan's relationship with South Korea, reinterprets Japan's constitution to allow for collective self-defense and what he calls "Proactive Pacifism" via some legally dubious means and all the while, he manages to piss off Bush jr., Obama, and Biden. Yes, even W. Bush hated him, and Biden is very vocal about how much he loathes Abe. He didn't piss off Trump, but Abe hated Trump so much he forced the Imperial Family to entertain Trump rather than meet Trump in person, ever. Next, Abe gets the Olympics, and it's thought he was going to use the popularity boost from that as a way to get support for his proposed constitutional amendment which would completely end Japanese pacifism and turn the Self-Defense Forces into a normal military, a goal of his and his war criminal grandfather*. Then he fucks up COVID response, resigns again, gets popular again, and was starting his comeback tour for round 3 baby when he gets shot with a gun made from two pipes, some duct tape, a few batteries, and scrap wood. * granddad was an administrator of Manchukuo and a suspected "Class A" war criminal who got lucky that the US War Crimes tribunal for Japan was such a shitshow that they gave up after the first round of trials. Granddad was allowed back into politics because some prominent Americans said he "wasn't so bad" and he is "harsh on communism." Granddad became a Japanese prime minister and immediately tried to give the Japanese police unlimited power, create a secret police again, and turn Self-Defense Forces into a normal military. This backfired so hard that Abe's granddad was banished from politics forever.
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Jul 8, 2022 23:18
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golden bubble posted:He didn't piss off Trump, but Abe hated Trump so much he forced the Imperial Family to entertain Trump rather than meet Trump in person, ever. There's literally viral photos going around of Trump and Abe meeting in person. https://twitter.com/m1sschad/status/1545263074000740354 https://twitter.com/ACTBrigitte/status/1545267093591007234 https://twitter.com/AbeShinzo/status/1132467086607802368 https://twitter.com/KassyDillon/status/1545353538938839041
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Jul 8, 2022 23:55
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An alternative take on Abe's legacy somebody linked me to (in case any of you know who Noah Smith is, I do not) https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/abe-shinzo-a-retrospective quote:This post provides as good a summary of Abe’s effect on Japan as any I could write today. Basically, I identified three big things: I don't know enough to say one way or the other, although I've only ever heard he was a strong advocate of women in the workforce and female employment has in fact risen greatly in the last few years.
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Jul 8, 2022 23:56
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edit: this is in response to golden bubble Interesting fanfic. The Trump anecdote is especially noteworthy considering there are loads of photos of them together during Trump's Japan visit. Also, he wasn't campaigning for himself and another comeback. Dude's health wasn't great and he was clearly content to just sit back and play kingmaker. Abe sucked as a leader and a human, but I don't understand the point of pulling a bunch of bullshit out of your rear end as 'a primer to newbies'. You could make people hate him just as effectively with actual facts.
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Jul 9, 2022 00:01
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Buckle up bitches for an epic history tweet thread but as a D&D post in a dead forum
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Jul 9, 2022 00:04
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NikkolasKing posted:An alternative take on Abe's legacy somebody linked me to (in case any of you know who Noah Smith is, I do not) One thing people don't consider about this, is that although, yes, women's participation in the workforce has increased dramatically, Abe's conservative wing still pushed and pushes for traditional family ideals which includes (now working) women being responsible for all the cooking and cleaning and other household chores. It's not universal but it is still expected and I know many working mothers here who are expected to be full time mothers and housewives in addition to their full time career.
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Jul 9, 2022 00:11
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Tuxedo Gin posted:One thing people don't consider about this, is that although, yes, women's participation in the workforce has increased dramatically, Abe's conservative wing still pushed and pushes for traditional family ideals which includes (now working) women being responsible for all the cooking and cleaning and other household chores. It's not universal but it is still expected and I know many working mothers here who are expected to be full time mothers and housewives in addition to their full time career. But cultural norms are much harder to shift. Except in places like the Nordics you rarely see a good division of household labor. I do think there’s a certain momentum that getting women into the workplace starts, and it bends towards things like childcare and flexible work arrangements becoming more of a thing.
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Jul 9, 2022 00:31
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NikkolasKing posted:An alternative take on Abe's legacy somebody linked me to (in case any of you know who Noah Smith is, I do not) He's one of the big twitter dudes who is professionally stupid in public, he's wrong about literally everything he ever posts.
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Jul 9, 2022 00:31
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Grand Fromage posted:He's one of the big twitter dudes who is professionally stupid in public, he's wrong about literally everything he ever posts. I can think of other big twitter dudes who are wrong a lot more consistently than Noah Smith. But yeah, he has a fair amount of hot takes. My general impression of Abe is that his views were a lot further to the right than his actual policies. Does anyone have a good article that gives some explanation for this? Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jul 9, 2022 |
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Jul 9, 2022 00:39
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So, one thing about the grandfather bit. Sinzo Abe is the grandkid of Nobusuke Kishi, who earned the nickname 'Monster of the Showa' due to how terribly he ran Manchuria. He turned it into a literal slave state for Japan (and when I say slave state, he was kidnapping a million Chinese a year between 1938 and 1945 to feed the industrial sector) with conditions so bad that one mine, Funshin, had a yearly death rate of over half their workforce. He saw non-japanese as unclean and worth less than dogs, only useful to give their lives to feed Japan. He also ran an opium market on the side using the same slavery for the benefit of the Yakuza, leading to their growth and expansion. After the war he used his business contacts and position as an economic advisor and anti-communist to duck a war crimes trial, and ended up founding the LDP. A lot of Abe's views (Japanese dominance, excuses for war crimes, even his business views) were based on Kishi's own views, and a lot of his old Yakuza ties as well. There's a notable photo with Abe, Mike Huckabee and one of the fananciers of the Yamaguchi-gumi, one of the main Yakuza families at the time.
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Jul 9, 2022 01:19
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Oh well maybe now he's dead his family's influence will die with him, hold on let me just check out who the current Minister of Defense is
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Jul 9, 2022 01:30
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i thought when he resigned a few years ago it was due to a chronic case of mudbutt
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Jul 9, 2022 01:53
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Looks like the assassin hated the Unification church and Abe's support of them. https://mobile.twitter.com/mrjeffu/status/1545540259626483713?t=JTLuCZrXL91czxkpURv6UA&s=19
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Jul 9, 2022 02:05
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Not sure why he’s bringing up the Soka Gakkai when it has no connection at all to the shooting or even Abe. edit: It’s interesting stuff though. Soka is so Japanese I hadn’t known that they got a bad rep or were under political attack. Vegetable fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Jul 9, 2022 |
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Jul 9, 2022 02:13
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ldp has been in coalition with soka gakkai's political party, komeito, for like forever now. the extreme right-wing, and especially their own lay buddhist organizations, hate sgi and want ldp to end the coalition. doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to be part of the motive
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Jul 9, 2022 02:22
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So far my favorite theory is Abe was planning a 3rd stunt in the PM seat after Kishida fail. Some people inside LDP really didn't want to see that and call in an old favor in the Japanese navy. Keep in mind Kishida kind of took a very aggressive stand regarding Russia sanctions when he didn't have to. Way more aggressive than SK and Taiwan. Kishida basically burn his bridge with Putin. And Russia passed a new law recently which will nationalize the gas company in far east which currently is supplying a lot of natural gas to Japan. There is evidence Putin is going to turn the knife coming this fall to shut off the gas to the 'unfriendly countries", including Nordstream 1. That would be Abe's chance since he still has good relationship with Putin.
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Jul 9, 2022 02:30
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So what kind of people made up Abe's electoral base?
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Jul 9, 2022 02:42
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