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zynga dot com posted:Positive. It was taped off and unstripped. I can check for additional wires but if there are any, they weren't connected to the old fixture. I am just a bum who nerds out while doing my slow home remodel, but your light fixture will for sure need two wires connected to it. One that is your hot (switched in this instance) and one for neutral. Someone please correct me if there is some voodoo wiring I have not seen before. Drop a picture of that old fixture, I am quite curious now.
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Jul 3, 2022 02:48
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Moey posted:I am just a bum who nerds out while doing my slow home remodel, but your light fixture will for sure need two wires connected to it. One that is your hot (switched in this instance) and one for neutral. Absolutely! The loop in the ground (?) wire was where it was wrapped around something, hopefully the ground screw. The other two wires from the split cable aren't marked as far as I can tell, and I've read that sometimes they're textured instead - the right wire feels like it's rougher but I'm not sure how subtle it's supposed to be. The exposed end of the left wire is curled and was clearly wrapped around something.
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Jul 3, 2022 03:36
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zynga dot com posted:Positive. It was taped off and unstripped. I can check for additional wires but if there are any, they weren't connected to the old fixture. Did it actually work before you took it down? If so, "comedy" option - you have a neutral ground bond somewhere and the old fixture was using your ground as a neutral.
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Jul 3, 2022 04:15
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Danhenge posted:Did it actually work before you took it down? I think you cracked the code. When I touched fixture neutral to ground, the bulb lit up. So I'm thinking the old fixture could have been hot->hot, neutral->ground, and the big loop in the fixture ground was from being wrapped around maybe the cross bar itself? I'm obviously not an electrician, so I don't know the implications of that, but it does seem like a possible way it was working before. zynga dot com fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jul 3, 2022 |
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Jul 3, 2022 04:44
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Should I replace every outlet at my place? So over the past few years, I've had weird outlet failures: A main outlet I use in the garage have always been "loose" and only make contact if the plug is just so. Replaced it last year. An outlet in the kitchen that the toaster was plugged into was visibly sparking behind the outlet plate. Replaced it two years ago. In one of the bedrooms I plugged a space heater in, and later it stopped working. I unplugged it and the cable was EXTREMELY HOT. Replaced it 3 years ago. Today, I installed a new dishwasher. The dishwasher "quits" into the heating cycle and doesn't have power (no breaker trip). I plugged it in via extension cord to a different outlet, works fine now. The dishwasher was the point that put all these events together in my brain. These outlets were installed in the 1970s, should I replace all of them in my place? Should I replace light switches too? What other wiring or outlets could be tainted? (no aluminum wiring anywhere, despite 1970s)
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Jul 3, 2022 05:49
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It sounds like your outlets are just worn out. Go ahead and replace them. Upgrade to TR outlets, they're code now. Put in GFCIs where they are required. Outdoor outlets are required to be WR too.
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Jul 3, 2022 06:00
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Danhenge posted:If so, "comedy" option - you have a neutral ground bond somewhere and the old fixture was using your ground as a neutral. This is it. Functional, yet mildly scary. kid sinister posted:It sounds like your outlets are just worn out. Go ahead and replace them. Upgrade to TR outlets, they're code now. Put in GFCIs where they are required. Outdoor outlets are required to be WR too. This. I've been randomly picking up 10 packs of TR decora outlets and working through all my 1960s beat up poo poo. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-White-15-Amp-Decorator-Tamper-Resistant-Outlet-Residential-10-Pack-Outlet/1001462386 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-1-Gang-White-Single-Midsize-Wall-Plate/1001462374 Nice clean look, plugs actually plug in firm. Moey fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Jul 3, 2022 |
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Jul 3, 2022 07:03
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Editing out some potentially bad advice.
Danhenge fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jul 3, 2022 |
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Jul 3, 2022 14:23
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Moey posted:I didn't deeply look at the control board when I ripped off the front panel, but it was pristine looking. No fried traces or bulging caps. That would have stood out. Is that tandem breaker on the left burned? I can't tell from the picture what's going on in the bottom left corner of it. Also the wire coming out of that 30a breaker looks strange - is that what's going to the dryer? I'm not sure why they would have used such thick wire, you really only need 10 gauge wire for that.
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Jul 3, 2022 15:43
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Danhenge posted:A neutral ground bond is pretty dangerous tbh. It might be in the switch box, so if you turn off the breaker and open the switch box you might find a neutral nutted to the ground back there. Wait, what? You're giving incorrect advice. Checking your post history here: Danhenge posted:I haven't used wire nuts a ton and all the tutorials available seem to be about splicing rather than just capping off a wire. and I'm puzzled as to why are you even GIVING advice in this thread? Ground will always "work" like neutral. Ground is ALWAYS bonded to neutral somewhere, and very often that is in the main panel. Sometimes it's the meter trough, sometimes the masthead if you have overhead service, and sometimes it's in a transfer switch if you have a generator setup. But it is ALWAYS bonded and it's supposed to be in one and only one place. The person you are responding to has a switch loop, which is incredibly common in houses built in the 50s/60s/early 70s. I'm not about to sort something like that out over the internet for someone who doesn't have enough experience to deal with it and can only give the advice to hire an electrician.
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Jul 3, 2022 16:45
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Danhenge posted:A neutral ground bond is pretty dangerous tbh. It might be in the switch box, so if you turn off the breaker and open the switch box you might find a neutral nutted to the ground back there. Yeah it didn’t sound safe. We’ve got a separate issue with a short downstairs so I guess it’s electrician time. In the meantime is there a “safe” way to get everything back together?
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Jul 3, 2022 16:54
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Motronic posted:Wait, what? You're giving incorrect advice. Checking your post history here: Fair enough. I won't offer any active advice going forward. Edit: nevermind Danhenge fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 3, 2022 |
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Jul 3, 2022 18:31
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devicenull posted:Is that tandem breaker on the left burned? I can't tell from the picture what's going on in the bottom left corner of it. I believe that is just dust, but I'll pop it back open tomorrow and take a look. Yeah, I saw 10g for wire sizing, no idea what that is, it's girthy though. The outlet box is literally screwed to a KO on the bottom of the breaker box, so it's it's a 10" run max.
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Jul 4, 2022 19:08
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Moey posted:I believe that is just dust, but I'll pop it back open tomorrow and take a look. If the run is that short then you have basically no reason to not replace that wire. Even if it's over-sized the missing strands where it goes into the breaker is sketchy as gently caress. Go get some THHN by the foot and do it right.
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Jul 4, 2022 19:15
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IOwnCalculus posted:If the run is that short then you have basically no reason to not replace that wire. Even if it's over-sized the missing strands where it goes into the breaker is sketchy as gently caress. Go get some THHN by the foot and do it right. That looks like 4 or 6 wire and a 30 amp QO breaker absolutely is not rated for wire that size. Skecthy as gently caress indeed. Looks like somebody re-used some leftover aluminum service entrance cable. And I bet there isn't any noalox on it either based on how the red one is burnt.
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Jul 4, 2022 19:28
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Yes, it's that easy. Just wanted to say thanks again for this great advice! I rewired one outlet and other than having to figure out which screw to attach the wires to, it went smoothly.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:07
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Motronic posted:That looks like 4 or 6 wire and a 30 amp QO breaker absolutely is not rated for wire that size. Skecthy as gently caress indeed. Looks like somebody re-used some leftover aluminum service entrance cable. And I bet there isn't any noalox on it either based on how the red one is burnt. "AWG 14...AWG 8 copper or aluminium" - https://www.se.com/us/en/product/QO230CP/mini-circuit-breaker-qo-30a-2-pole-120-240vac-10ka-plug-in-mount-consumer-pack/ Whew, that's not even just a little bit wrong. That's a lot wrong.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:34
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Motronic posted:That looks like 4 or 6 wire and a 30 amp QO breaker absolutely is not rated for wire that size. Skecthy as gently caress indeed. Looks like somebody re-used some leftover aluminum service entrance cable. And I bet there isn't any noalox on it either based on how the red one is burnt. If you unwind and only use half the strands of a 4g wire, then it's a 10g wire! (Don't do this.)
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Jul 5, 2022 22:43
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Thanks all, I'll go grab a few feet of each black and red 10g THHN today and get this stupid poo poo fixed. Been slowly working on remodeling/fixing this old poo poo hole, everything I find seems like someone previously has been trying to kill me.
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Jul 6, 2022 19:23
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I'm replacing a bunch of old light switches in my old house and came across this: Never seen a backstabbed wire plus to additional hot wires on the two other terminals. Is this unusual or dangerous in any way? Because I'd like to replace this light switch but really hate backstabbing any wires at all.
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Jul 6, 2022 21:52
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melon cat posted:I'm replacing a bunch of old light switches in my old house and came across this: They saved the effort / time in doing a pigtail to a Wago / wire nut, which I think is the ‘right’ way to do it. IMO use the screw terminals on the side, and then pigtail to a nut/Wago if you need more, before tacking onto the backstabs.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:21
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movax posted:They saved the effort / time in doing a pigtail to a Wago / wire nut, which I think is the ‘right’ way to do it. IMO use the screw terminals on the side, and then pigtail to a nut/Wago if you need more, before tacking onto the backstabs. I think I understand what you're getting at:  Yes/no? Blue thing is a wire nut. And imagine those white lines represent the black wires -I only drew them white for visibility melon cat fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 23:09
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Yeah, that'll work fine. If the outlet isn't switched, you'll want to tie all the blacks together and feed the outlet from one terminal. Daisy chaining wire through the outlet makes it super fun to figure out why some outlets don't work years later. Also, spend the $5/outlet instead of $1.86 and get the commercial specification grade outlets. https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d71aa6c34e94ec254f5bf5bbb03cdfa2-lq The screw and clamp back wire is the legit nicest wiring method available on 120v outlets, and it's worth the extra spend. The outlets also last a lot longer, because the spring contacts inside them are much heavier. Outlets are a wear item, and any time an outlet doesn't authoritatively grab whatever you plug into it, it should be replaced. A high draw item like a space heater can start a fire due to intermittent or weak contact.
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Jul 7, 2022 00:47
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Thanks for confirming and helping with my wiring diagram. I'd love to get commercial grade outlets but how do I tell if it's real commercial grade and not "cheapy with a CoMmErCiaL GrAdE" sticker on it? I swear every item at the big box retailer is now marketed as "commercial grade" and I've had far too many break on me after a year of light usage.
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Jul 7, 2022 01:07
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Yeah, that'll work fine. If the outlet isn't switched, you'll want to tie all the blacks together and feed the outlet from one terminal. Daisy chaining wire through the outlet makes it super fun to figure out why some outlets don't work years later. I think you can put a straight wire under the little clamp on the screw on the newer Leviton ones up to 14awg, can't you?
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Jul 7, 2022 01:28
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melon cat posted:Thanks for confirming and helping with my wiring diagram. The SKUs are confusing as poo poo IMO, but honestly if its something like Home Depot or Lowe’s, just look at them in store (carefully peak in box if you have too) and see if its got those clamps / is labeled ‘industrial’ / ‘commercial duty’ in anyways.
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Jul 7, 2022 01:29
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movax posted:The SKUs are confusing as poo poo IMO, but honestly if its something like Home Depot or Lowe’s, just look at them in store (carefully peak in box if you have too) and see if its got those clamps / is labeled ‘industrial’ / ‘commercial duty’ in anyways. If it's in Home Depot or Lowes it's just not. You need to go to a real electrical supply place.
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Jul 7, 2022 01:37
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melon cat posted:I'm replacing a bunch of old light switches in my old house and came across this: At least it wasn't like this outlet I found in my house 
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Jul 7, 2022 03:28
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Motronic posted:If it's in Home Depot or Lowes it's just not. They have commercial grade stuff, more or less. It's still big box home improvement price points, but the difference between the $2 builder grade unit and the $6 commercial grade one is night and day, mostly in the fact that the screws have either a pull through back stab hole, or have the little metal plate which means you never again have to twist the wire. Real electrical supply place will give you EXACTLY what you ask for, and having done it half a dozen times, going up to the counter guys and going "I asked you very authoritatively for the thing I didn't actually mean, and didn't check it was what I needed, can you please take this $400 order back" is kinda really embarrassing. If you go to a real electrical place, describe what you want and carefully inspect what they bring you, and don't be shocked when an outlet costs $30 because you wanted spec grade red, and all they had were hospital grade.
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Jul 7, 2022 08:16
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:They have commercial grade stuff, more or less. It's still big box home improvement price points, but the difference between the $2 builder grade unit and the $6 commercial grade one is night and day, mostly in the fact that the screws have either a pull through back stab hole, or have the little metal plate which means you never again have to twist the wire. That's a load bearing "more or less". What you're saying here is that you don't actually want commercial grade stuff, you want high end resi builder grade stuff which is what big box stores sells sometimes with "commercial" slapped on them. But not to be confused with "Commercial Electric" brand fixtures, because that's low to barely mid end. And that's fine. But actual commercial stuff is a thing, it's not at big box stores and yes it's often $30 an outlet. Especially for isolated ground.
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Jul 7, 2022 12:33
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Installing ceiling fans where lights were previously installed. Is there any way to verify if the current electrical box is rated for ceiling fans/correct weight? Only thing I can think of is jumping in the attic and seeing how it’s setup from above. House is from 1988. Edit: the neutral wires looked like the fell victim to the popcorn ceiling spray and are capped in the yellow wire cap on the right. 
nwin fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 19:12
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You might be able to tell by looking up and seeing if you see the box attached to some kind of bar on top (the two holes faintly visible in the second picture sort of give me a vibe that it's connected to a bar) but if you've got attic access, the surest way is to go up and see that it's got a metal support bar anchoring it between two joists, rather than just being side nailed into a single joist.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:19
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FISHMANPET posted:You might be able to tell by looking up and seeing if you see the box attached to some kind of bar on top (the two holes faintly visible in the second picture sort of give me a vibe that it's connected to a bar) but if you've got attic access, the surest way is to go up and see that it's got a metal support bar anchoring it between two joists, rather than just being side nailed into a single joist. Thanks-I installed some fans that required the support bars installed but it was a decade ago so it’s slowly coming back to me.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:34
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Here’s what I found: Room 1 (pictured above) : no access. There’s plywood which has been nailed down and it’s blocking access to the wiring. Any ideas or do I need to rip up the plywood? Room 2: seems good and ready for a fan https://imgur.com/a/hTyR1Vm Awful app won’t let me upload the above pic for some reason, hence the link. Room 3: no good. Need to get something to support the fan. I’m worried about the box being right next to the joist because a bar like room 2 won’t work I don’t think. Any ideas? Unless there’s a box that would work, I almost think I need to cut a new hole in an adjacent joist? I’m also curious why it has two sets of cables instead of 1 like room 2.  Second though on room 3…this thing installs right on the joist as well. Maybe just replace mine with this to be safe? Southwire MSBFAN Fan Support 50/ lb, Maximum with Depth Adjustable, gray https://a.co/d/3oSnmca nwin fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 20:46
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For room 3, a box like you've got in Room 2 will work just fine. The box slides along the rail, so you should be able to just slide it all the way to one side no problem. But that box you linked will also work. You can probably make an assumption that the boxes installed in your house are the same, so look at what Room 2 looks like from the bottom (a box with arm) and what Room 3 looks like (a simple box side nailed in) and see how that compares to room 1. I suspect the little holes I can see in your room 1 picture are the mounting holes that hold the box onto the bracket. If the bottom of Room 2 looks like the bottom of Room 1, you're probably fine.
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Jul 8, 2022 21:28
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None of those boxes are rated for fans and they should all be replaced. I love it when people learn a thing or two from the thread then they are suddenly answering questions with authority. Rufio fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jul 9, 2022 |
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Jul 9, 2022 03:33
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Rufio posted:None of those boxes are rated for fans and they should all be replaced. The one with the bars going across the studs isn’t ok? It looks similar to the setup I did years back on a fan install.
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Jul 9, 2022 03:53
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I'm assuming it's something like this which is fan rated. It's entirely possible it's not that however, and I'm humble enough to admit when I'm wrong.
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Jul 9, 2022 04:00
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FISHMANPET posted:I'm assuming it's something like this which is fan rated. Where do you see this box as listed for a fan? Any fan box will be specifically listed as such. That is what we call a bar hanger and I would never hang a fan on that. They are generally installed by stabbing into the joist and securing in place with a Romex staple. When hanging a fan you generally want to attach to the framework. What I do when I can access the attic, I cut a 2x4 to install across the whole joist bay then screw in a pancake fan box. If it isn't accessible, then a remodel box like the one where you twist it between joists from below is fine. Rufio fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Jul 9, 2022 |
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Jul 9, 2022 04:10
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I don't know anything about it so I'm glad I declined to chime in up to this point but poking around it looks like that first photo might be a box that's rated for a higher weight fixture than something nailed to a single joist (edit: or too far from a joist, obviously), but isn't actually rated for a fan. The fan boxes I'm seeing look like they have a beefier brace.
Danhenge fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jul 9, 2022 |
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Jul 9, 2022 04:14
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