(Thread IKs:
ZShakespeare)
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I'll get vaccinated with whatever is available to me as soon as I'm eligible to do so, same as the last three times. This being Ontario, that may be a while.
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Jul 10, 2022 14:48
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 17:09 |
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Let me be perfectly honest: I think our public health response has been shambolic, and it continues to be; however, I don't think most people who are still even moderately cautious about COVID -- especially people working from home primarily or entirely -- understand just how thoroughly we've lost the messaging battle. It's not even close, it's a complete rout of public health in its entirety, the battle is lost, the only thing to do is figure out how you want to adapt to the new normal. You're not going to convince the 95% of people who are "done with" public health restrictions or common sense to start observing any sort of precautions or restrictions. It's not happening, any idea to the contrary is magical thinking. You're not going to convince the people who don't want boosters to get boosters -- 3rd or 4th shot, new updated bivalent booster, doesn't loving matter. We have collectively made our decision, and my side/our side has lost. Grieve it and move on.
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Jul 10, 2022 15:49
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infernal machines posted:Mask are now "strongly recommended" on the TTC and there are only slightly fewer people wearing them than when they were mandatory. People generally did wear them on the TTC up until the mask requirement was dropped for non-public-transit, non-health-care settings. A tiny handful of people stopped wearing them as soon as it was announced that the end of the requirement was coming, but there was >90% compliance on the TTC when masks were still generally required indoors. PT6A posted:the only thing to do is figure out how you want to adapt to the new normal There are still plenty of people who will absolutely flip out on you if you so much as hint that this might be true.
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Jul 10, 2022 18:43
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tagesschau posted:People generally did wear them on the TTC up until the mask requirement was dropped for non-public-transit, non-health-care settings. A tiny handful of people stopped wearing them as soon as it was announced that the end of the requirement was coming, but there was >90% compliance on the TTC when masks were still generally required indoors. Yeah, similar experience on Hamilton buses. After riding the bus constantly during the various "lockdowns" and mandates, at least when I wasn't working from home, I'd say that mask compliance was at least 90-95% - at least for wearing some kind of mask. A small amount would wear something clearly ineffective. It fell over the last six months, but prior to the mandate changing it was still very much the norm for people on board. Some drivers cared enough to ask people to wear masks, some did not - I don't blame them, it's a hard enough job without having to confront assholes about masks constantly. As soon as the mandate dropped though, a switch was flipped and mask wearing has dropped to likely under 20%.
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Jul 10, 2022 20:00
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I think people just rely heavily on personal experience. If they see everyone else wearing a mask, they’re more likely to comply with directives to wear a mask. If mask usage drops and no one they know gets sick, they stop wearing it. A few weeks ago my parents were happily declaring COVID “over” but since my partner caught it, they’re back to masking and taking precautions. I wouldn’t be surprised if people jump on the bivalent vaccine since it offers protection from something they’ll have recent personal experience with, given how omicron is spreading. But generally the messaging from public health has been confusing. There were no useful guidelines on the BC CDC’s site about what to do as my partner recovered. I managed not to catch it from him, even through we were isolating from each other in a tiny apartment. The information for someone with COVID is “you can stop isolating after 5 days if your fever is gone” and the information for taking care of someone with COVID is “clean surfaces and wear a mask” but zero guidance on what to do after 5 days have passed. The US CDC recommends another 5 days of isolation and masking when you live in the same place, thankfully, but BC just says nothing about this at all.
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Jul 11, 2022 00:54
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I wish, my cousin jused passed away from fighting COVID for over 6 months and blames the government for why they couldn't see her as she got worse and worse. The only person who would go is her mother who is vaxed, her husband and children staunchly antivax never went to see her. I can't help but wonder if she could have survived had they cared enough to get vaxed and see her. Or the obvious, if she a nurse had bothered to get vaxed, instead of her and her family being dumb about it all. 
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Jul 11, 2022 03:27
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Syfe posted:I wish, my cousin jused passed away from fighting COVID for over 6 months and blames the government for why they couldn't see her as she got worse and worse. The only person who would go is her mother who is vaxed, her husband and children staunchly antivax never went to see her. I can't help but wonder if she could have survived had they cared enough to get vaxed and see her. Or the obvious, if she a nurse had bothered to get vaxed, instead of her and her family being dumb about it all. Six months? I could kinda imagine if a loved one gets worse quickly, like in a week, and if you need to have been vaccinated for a few weeks before the hospital lets you in, then it doesn't really seem relevant. But six months, gently caress. I'm sorry for your loss.
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Jul 11, 2022 04:07
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Syfe posted:I wish, my cousin jused passed away from fighting COVID for over 6 months and blames the government for why they couldn't see her as she got worse and worse. The only person who would go is her mother who is vaxed, her husband and children staunchly antivax never went to see her. I can't help but wonder if she could have survived had they cared enough to get vaxed and see her. Or the obvious, if she a nurse had bothered to get vaxed, instead of her and her family being dumb about it all. Honestly, this kind of story is the sort of thing that emboldens the vaxxed-and-not-giving-a-poo poo crowd. Again, I don't think it's right, I think it's the reality we get to deal with. Writing off the concerns of the immunocompromised, those with other complex medical situations, and those who are allergic to the current vaccines, as well as not really touching on the risks of long COVID on a personal and societal level, is abhorrent, and I hate that we're doing it. On the other hand, though I'm sorry for the loss of your cousin, no one gives a gently caress in a wider sense, and you can't make them care. It's literally a thing people give less of a gently caress about that a smoker dying of lung cancer or an alcoholic dying of cirrhosis of the liver, because at least those things are associated with an actual addiction, rather than pure stupidity. I have a co-worker whose husband is on oxygen following a months-long bout in the ICU with COVID. I'd feel a lot worse him if he didn't swear up and down COVID was fake bullshit and I was a stupid sheep for wearing a mask. I'd feel a lot worse for his wife if she ever wore a goddamn mask, or had decided "hmmm, maybe the vaccine isn't bad!" The vast majority (not all, I know) of really sad tales in the post-vaccine time, even now that we have variants, are people who chose not to get vaccinated, or people who were quite old and unwell*. We should care for them, but I understand why most people are sick of dealing with it and willing to roll the dice. * I do understand that immunocompromised people and/or older people are are a greater risk... but that being said, "immunocompromised people" are not a uniform group. One of my best friends is immunocompromised and he's taking more risks than I do, because, in his own words "I've already lived longer than every male in my family by years, I could easily drop dead at any moment anyway, and I'm way closer to the end than the beginning or even the middle even if I get very lucky; gently caress spending my remaining time hiding in my apartment." I really can't argue with that. As regards a COVID-zero strategy, I know if we went to it right now and it took another 10 years let's say, I'd likely have (according to current life expectancy figures) roughly half my life left. Again, going by the figures, my buddy would be dead at that point, not even counting family history. I get why I'd be more willing to put up with that than he is. One thing about re-emerging into a post-vaccination, post-restriction society is I'm talking to a lot more people who make the very reasonable point, from a variety of perspectives, that post-vaccine, and with great availability of masks which protect you personally as well as those around you, the harms of restrictions beyond that are simply not acceptable relative to the advantages at this point. My personal feeling is that we should probably get over ourselves re: masks being annoying, because they work, and we should start instituting verifiable requirements for ventilation of indoor spaces quantified by CO2 monitors, and I have no problem with dictating that those able to get vaccines and boosters get them, but apart from that... open it the gently caress up, we need a balance between trying to keep people safe, and getting on with normal life. There's so much we can still do while taking care of the vulnerable people in our society without onerous restrictions, and we should continue with regulations which don't really conflict with that in any real sense.
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Jul 11, 2022 04:50
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And I really don't mean to be overly callous, obviously every death is a horrendous thing and, I agree we should be avoiding them. But if I say to my co-workers, who didn't have the WFH option I did: "hey, we need to keep taking this poo poo very seriously, some restrictions are necessary" I'm not going to get a lot of people to agree with me if the "tragedy" is someone who refused to get vaccinated and then bore the unfortunate consequences. Hell, even my fellow part-time instructor, whose main gig is teaching high school, said outright: "you have no idea how much of a poo poo-show this has been, if you haven't been in the trenches. Kids have harmed themselves and suffered and died due to restrictions that went too drat far for too long." I definitely refused to believe that early on, but I know this guy, I know he's not an anti-vaxxer or a bullshitter, he's just had a very different view of the situation than I've had, than we collectively have had. It's the parable of the blind men touching the elephant. The issue now, I think, is that we're out of balance. We've given up on public health interventions that work at very, very low societal cost -- masks, vaccine passports/requirements, ventilation requirements, and now we're just hosed, in essence. We've hosed ourselves into the worst of possible worlds at this point. PT6A fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 05:06
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Lmao Halifax made it four days into a pilot of turning a street into being bus and bike only before giving up because idiots in their cars were just ignoring traffic laws and signage. That really bodes well for any future pedestrianisation
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Jul 11, 2022 18:54
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hey cinci zoo sniper gently caress off and stay out of our thread don't probate people for posts that are totally fine in here
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Jul 11, 2022 19:08
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The general social reaction to covid has basically killed whatever drive or hope I had for progressivism - if "millions of people will die directly and indirectly" wasn't a good enough reason to do [a few extremely simple things] for a while, what chance do we have that anything at all is ever going to improve in any way? I dropped out of some speaking engagements at BLM events 'cause last year I just all of a sudden realized that it just doesn't matter. Stick a fork in it, we're done.
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Jul 11, 2022 19:28
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kaom posted:I see some people talking about the booster being offered now and taking it if we want to. The fourth dose, that second booster, is not available in BC to anyone under 70 unless you’re high risk. That’s why some of us are upset about this. Another Bill posted:I don't know what about the covid vaccine experience of the last 2 years makes anyone think they'll be on time and available to Canadians in the fall. Take the 4th booster offered now, worry about the rest in 5-6 months. My 12 year old has long-COVID that's basically torpedo'ed her quality of life for at least the next few years. I'm done loving around with this poo poo. mom and dad fight a lot fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 19:45
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Bleck posted:The general social reaction to covid has basically killed whatever drive or hope I had for progressivism - if "millions of people will die directly and indirectly" wasn't a good enough reason to do [a few extremely simple things] for a while, what chance do we have that anything at all is ever going to improve in any way? welcome to the republican party
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Jul 11, 2022 20:41
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My friend and his kids are vaccinated but his wife "wants to do her own research". Apparently she convinced her parents not to get the vaccine "becuase there wasn't enough proof of its effectiveness" and her mom died last month from COVID. His wife blames the government for not providing enough information on the vaccines for people to provide informed consent.
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Jul 11, 2022 20:50
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Mr. Apollo posted:My friend and his kids are vaccinated but his wife "wants to do her own research". Apparently she convinced her parents not to get the vaccine "becuase there wasn't enough proof of its effectiveness" and her mom died last month from COVID. His wife blames the government for not providing enough information on the vaccines for people to provide informed consent. This is just my own irrational rage speaking but I feel like that person deserves to be reminded continually that they got their mother killed because they are stupid Your friend and his children deserve better
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Jul 11, 2022 21:20
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Mr. Apollo posted:My friend and his kids are vaccinated but his wife "wants to do her own research". Apparently she convinced her parents not to get the vaccine "becuase there wasn't enough proof of its effectiveness" and her mom died last month from COVID. His wife blames the government for not providing enough information on the vaccines for people to provide informed consent. I'm sorry your friend married an absolute idiot
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Jul 11, 2022 21:20
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Isn't Ontario still making the 2nd booster only available to 60+ unless you are extremely immunocompromised? I remember trying when they sent an email earlier and said I wasn't eligible.
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Jul 11, 2022 21:55
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Mr. Apollo posted:his wife "wants to do her own research" Offer to sign up for her double-blind trial study and ask if she has 43,660 other friends already signed up for the same.
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Jul 11, 2022 21:57
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UnknownMercenary posted:Isn't Ontario still making the 2nd booster only available to 60+ unless you are extremely immunocompromised? I remember trying when they sent an email earlier and said I wasn't eligible. Immunocompromised, Aboriginal, or high-risk groups. The rest of us might be eligible some time in September, maybe, who knows? 9+ months after the first booster, but I'm sure it's fine. I have no idea if we're still severely supply constrained or if we're just sticking with the old distribution priority schedule because why change?
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Jul 11, 2022 22:00
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Jokes on all you fuckers, I’m eligible 
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Jul 11, 2022 22:08
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I thought maybe that vaccine factory in Québec they approved last year would have been open sometime soon to start alleviating domestic supply issues but lol it's going to be running until 2024 at the earliest.
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Jul 11, 2022 22:11
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I'm calling the BC hotline since I won't be home for much of the fall this year, gonna see if that's a good enough reason to get a booster, and if not, it's a day trip to the US for me.
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Jul 11, 2022 23:16
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I know it's been bad for ages and I shouldn't be surprised but fuckin' lmao that I tried to call AirCanada to see if I can cancel half my round trip ticket, and they were declining to even add calls to the queue.
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Jul 11, 2022 23:18
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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HookShot posted:I'm calling the BC hotline since I won't be home for much of the fall this year, gonna see if that's a good enough reason to get a booster, and if not, it's a day trip to the US for me. Is there a specific place in the US that you can get that done? I'm going to be waiting no matter what, as my passport's long expired. mom and dad fight a lot fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 23:27
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It's really weird how the government just can't resist the urge to massively gatekeep everything to do with the vaccine. We're not at all short on it, we're throwing tons of it away as it expires, but still doing complex means-tested vaccination schedules. Just let anyone who wants their 4th to get it the moment they're within the right time frame as per medical guidelines. A 20-something getting their 4th dose helps everyone.
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Jul 11, 2022 23:44
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I'd say it also fuels vaccine conspiracy theories, since there's absolutely no rational reason not to open it up if the vaccine is in fact fully safe. Since I already accept that the governments involved act irrationally for no particular reason, this does not trouble me.
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Jul 12, 2022 00:10
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mom and dad fight a lot posted:Just wanted to clarify this point. You can get a 2nd booster now in BC if you want (bottom of this page). They're sending out updates starting today at 40,000 ppl at a time, which I can only imagine is deliberately slow, because it will take all summer to reach everyone. I agree with everything else you said. Thanks for linking the number I just got my booster appointment for Thursday. I agree with above poster that I don’t trust a roll out of a new and more effective vaccine will make its way to me on time. I will take what I can when I can get it!
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Jul 12, 2022 00:12
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Yeah we ever gonna approve the under-5s or what
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Jul 12, 2022 00:42
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By no means should we give it to a poor. Country though lol hope there's no more variants!
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Jul 12, 2022 01:14
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Baronjutter posted:It's really weird how the government just can't resist the urge to massively gatekeep everything to do with the vaccine. We're not at all short on it, we're throwing tons of it away as it expires, but still doing complex means-tested vaccination schedules. Just let anyone who wants their 4th to get it the moment they're within the right time frame as per medical guidelines. A 20-something getting their 4th dose helps everyone. My gut tells me it's that they don't want to have to pay medical staff to administer it
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Jul 12, 2022 01:50
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mom and dad fight a lot posted:Is there a specific place in the US that you can get that done? I'm going to be waiting no matter what, as my passport's long expired. It's literally any pharmacy (basically, anyway. It's very easily Googleable). Mr. Hookshot and I were considering doing it when we were in SF in May, but figured that was only 4 months out and it wasn't needed because surely BC would roll them out when we hit the 6 month mark and lmao welp.
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Jul 12, 2022 02:33
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PT6A posted:I'd say it also fuels vaccine conspiracy theories, since there's absolutely no rational reason not to open it up if the vaccine is in fact fully safe. I think you’re probably damned both ways on this one. The very existence of boosters fuels conspiracy theories by contributing to the perception that the vaccines don’t work. What’s more, the fact that endless boosters provide a guaranteed revenue stream for the drug companies has not escaped people’s attention. Acting as though there’s some pretense behind limiting who can get boosted and when lends legitimacy to the regulatory process. I’m not even sure what the regulatory process looks like for COVID treatments, except that it seems like a foregone conclusion that we’ll follow the US FDA with a couple weeks delay. I think there’s quite a moral hazard arriving at any independent conclusions, because that could undermine the whole thing as well. People don’t pay attention to us in general, but if we did something that suited a certain contrarian narrative, say rejecting the under-5 vaccine, we would suddenly become a focus within the contrarian space. This is similar to how Sweden became an icon early on for its lack of a serious public health response.
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Jul 12, 2022 04:01
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I'd believe it could be a cost thing, if we didn't already have the vaccines ready to go, and then getting thrown out when they expire. The money's spent! Get that poo poo in people!
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Jul 12, 2022 04:08
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I just signed up to donate some of my triple-vaxxed blood during Canada's largest blood shortage in a decade. I hope it goes to an anti-vaxxer. 
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Jul 12, 2022 04:10
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I’m so sorry for everyone here who’s lost someone to COVID or whose family is suffering lingering effects. funny song about politics posted:I’m not even sure what the regulatory process looks like for COVID treatments, except that it seems like a foregone conclusion that we’ll follow the US FDA with a couple weeks delay. I think there’s quite a moral hazard arriving at any independent conclusions, because that could undermine the whole thing as well. It makes sense in many ways to be risk averse, but it was also cool early on when we broke stride with everyone else on allowing mixed vaccination and it panned out great. We listened to Canadian medical researchers and I wish we’d do it again!
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Jul 12, 2022 04:50
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PT6A posted:I'd believe it could be a cost thing, if we didn't already have the vaccines ready to go, and then getting thrown out when they expire.
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Jul 12, 2022 05:05
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kaom posted:It makes sense in many ways to be risk averse, but it was also cool early on when we broke stride with everyone else on allowing mixed vaccination and it panned out great. We listened to Canadian medical researchers and I wish we’d do it again! Also delaying the second dose in favour of more people getting their first dose. Seems like something you could run a trial on alongside the original trials, but since nobody did, might as well go for it.
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Jul 12, 2022 05:11
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Trapick posted:The vaccine money is spent, the nurse overtime money is still in the bank. Fair point. Mainly I'm shocked how low the uptake rate is on 1st boosters. Was there really a significant portion of people who were eager for the first two shots, but are now thinking: "two shots to be protected from a deadly disease? fully reasonable! Three or more? gently caress OFF!" I just don't know what's going on in the heads of those people.
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Jul 12, 2022 13:46
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 17:09 |
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PT6A posted:Fair point. From random conversations I've overheard in my neighbourhood, yes, actually. Like, people are for various reasons deeply suspicious of the vaccine, got their two shots, and simply refuse to get any more for a lot of the same reasons a smaller subset of people got only one or none.
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Jul 12, 2022 13:53
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