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Rigel posted:The democrats do not effectively have the power to pass the laws that they want to pass because of two morons in the Senate. If those two Senators instead voted the way the party wanted them to vote, then we'd be in a massively different situation now. There is no leverage of any kind whatsoever that can be used by anyone against those two morons to get them in line. Do you really believe that? After what happened to Madison Cawthorne, do you really believe that political parties have no ways to discipline their own members? That is completely absurd to me.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:10
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is pepsi ok posted:I'm sorry but I straight up do not believe that the Democratic leadership nor the majority of the members do sincerely want to pass that legislation and would have if they were able. To me believing in that is simply an act of faith. We would have had election reform (HR1), BBB, and abortion legislation all passed and signed into law right now if it wasn't for those two idiots. This is just plainly and unambiguously true. Gripweed posted:Do you really believe that? After what happened to Madison Cawthorne, do you really believe that political parties have no ways to discipline their own members? That is completely absurd to me. Manchin is completely untouchable. He has the unwavering support of the WV Democratic party, and any action by the national party against him would just be used in his next election in ads as proof to WV voters that as promised he is bravely standing up to the party bosses and putting West Virginia first, or some crap like that. Sinema has been not-so-subtly threatened with a credible primary challenge in her next election. She doesn't care.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:11
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Rigel posted:We would have had election reform (HR1), BBB, and abortion legislation all passed and signed into law right now if it wasn't for those two idiots. This is just plainly and unambiguously true. Sorry but again this is 100% an act of faith and nothing about the way the Democrats have acted in the last 30 years suggest there is any validity to your faith, let along it being "plainly and unambiguously true." This is bordering on "obviously Star Citizen is going to get released and make all my dreams come true, they've just hit a couple development snags. Any day now though." I'd also like to remind you that 8 Democratic senators voted down increasing the minimum wage from literal starvation levels.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:18
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Rigel posted:Manchin is completely untouchable. He has the unwavering support of the WV Democratic party, and any action by the national party against him would just be used in his next election in ads as proof to WV voters that as promised he is bravely standing up to the party bosses and putting West Virginia first, or some crap like that. They could pull Manchin's Committee assignments. That seems pretty easy. They could sic the Justice Department on his crooked daughter. Hell, that would be a political win just by itself because they'd be going after a criminal pharma executive. And Sinema, my god she was an anarchist freegan for a decade. I guarantee they could dig up some embarrassing stuff on her. No offence to freegans. That's off the top of my head and I'm just some guy. I'm sure if the Democrats actually wanted to force them to play ball, they could figure out more ways to apply pressure.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:18
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Gripweed posted:They could pull Manchin's Committee assignments. That seems pretty easy. They could sic the Justice Department on his crooked daughter. Hell, that would be a political win just by itself because they'd be going after a criminal pharma executive. You know it's funny, I can't recall them ever struggling to find material to attack Bernie Sanders. Hell, even if they couldn't find something they had no problem making things up and making sure their media allies repeated it all day. Did they somehow lose that ability, or are they openly hostile to socialists and progressives and openly welcoming of center-to-far-right capitalists, I wonder?
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Jul 12, 2022 17:20
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is pepsi ok posted:Sorry but again this is 100% an act of faith and nothing about the way the Democrats have acted in the last 30 years suggest there is any validity to your faith, let along it being "plainly and unambiguously true." We clearly and unambigously have 48 Senators in favor of passing those 3 items I named (and actually all 50 for HR1 if the filibuster did not exist). There is no reason whatsoever to believe that they would not pass those items if they were not blocked by those two idiots in the Senate. It is a weird act of faith to stubbornly insist that even if the filibuster did not exist the Democrats would still do nothing.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:22
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Rigel posted:We clearly and unambigously have 48 Senators in favor of passing those 3 items I named (and actually all 50 for HR1 if the filibuster did not exist). There is no reason whatsoever to believe that they would not pass those items if they were not blocked by those two idiots in the Senate. It is a weird act of faith to stubbornly insist that even if the filibuster did not exist the Democrats would still do nothing. There are plenty of examples of Democrats at the state and federal level running on progressive policies, winning control of the government, and then not enacting those policies. In this particular case, the fact that the Democrats are using two Democrat senators as the explanation for why they aren't doing stuff is reason enough to doubt the Democrats' commitment.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:27
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For the (n+1)th time on this board we are back to "oh I don't know, I'm sure they could find SOME way to coerce two duly-elected US Senators into meek compliance if the party leaders were just mean enough. The fact that they have not is proof that the Dems are a waste." This is a topic that has been exhaustively discussed here since 2020, where theories can not be objectively proven or disproven, and where we do not have new information or interesting and novel arguments to explore.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:31
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Rigel posted:For the (n+1)th time on this board we are back to "oh I don't know, I'm sure they could find SOME way to coerce two duly-elected US Senators into meek compliance if the party leaders were just mean enough. The fact that they have not is proof that the Dems are a waste." I literally laid out specific ways they could be pressured and pointed to an extremely recent example of an American political party doing it to one of their own members. I feel like the Cawthorne example is a pretty drat interesting and novel argument that has emerged since 2020. If an argument keeps going in circles, that might be because one side is wrong and doesn't want to admit it.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:34
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Rigel posted:We clearly and unambigously have 48 Senators in favor of passing those 3 items I named (and actually all 50 for HR1 if the filibuster did not exist). There is no reason whatsoever to believe that they would not pass those items if they were not blocked by those two idiots in the Senate. It is a weird act of faith to stubbornly insist that even if the filibuster did not exist the Democrats would still do nothing. Here's a collection of lies they told during the Georgia senate race, which was the last time they insisted that everyone was ready to pass Biden's agenda if they could get just two more D senators: quote:“Their election will put an end to the block in Washington on the $2,000 stimulus check,” Biden said. “If you send Sen. Perdue and Loeffler back to Washington, those checks will never get there. It’s just that simple. The power is literally in your hands.” quote:Ossoff and Warnock are both running aggressively on a promise for $2,000 checks. At the rally, they sharpened the contrast by framing the race as a referendum on whether Congress passes a $15 minimum wage, an infrastructure package and Covid-19 recovery spending they said Republicans will block if they can. quote:Warnock and Ossoff previewed their messages at a rally in Atlanta Tuesday. Warnock said the state would “seal the deal” in the runoffs after Biden’s victory last month. Ossoff said the priorities of Biden and Democrats could be easily blocked by a GOP-led Senate. quote:January’s results, Obama said, are “going to determine the course of the Biden presidency and whether Joe Biden and Kamala Harris can deliver legislatively all the commitments they’ve made.” Here's Kamala Harris, a cosponsor of Bernie's M4A bill coming out against it to please her donors: quote:When it comes to health care, what does Kamala Harris really believe? The question is once again seemingly up in the air after the Daily Beast reported that the Democrat had waffled, once again, on her support for Medicare for All. “I support Medicare for All,” she told a crowd of wealthy donors, attempting to clarify her position while fund-raising in the Hamptons. But as you may have noticed, over the course of the many months, I’ve not been comfortable with Bernie’s plan, the Medicare for All plan.” You're putting your faith in these people based on their words alone, despite the fact that their actions have shown that they've been feeding you the same lie time and time again.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:34
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So 50 Senators actually means 48 on BBB, voting rights, etc and thats just how it is. As we saw in March 21, it means 42 Senators on minimum wage, etc. So when it comes the election and say the Democrats manage to pick up two more seats in marginal, purpley states and keep all their safe seats, I feel it might be possible, just possible, that 52 might mean 49 for some things at least. Kinda by definition the new seats would be less "safe" (it seems to me at least, because otherwise they would already have them forever like CA and WA and stuff) and there's at least a vanishing possibility of someone pulling a Sinema again and changing their tune after election. Maybe this is a completely unique situation with these two but I kinda doubt it somehow?
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Jul 12, 2022 17:45
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Gripweed posted:I feel like the Cawthorne example is a pretty drat interesting and novel argument that has emerged since 2020. Do you think they would have forced out Cawthorne if the House was 218-217 and his replacement was guaranteed to be a Democrat?
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Jul 12, 2022 18:01
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Does it give nobody here pause that every conceivable action that the Democrats could take is so doomed to fail that it's not even worth trying? I swear I've seen at least a few dozen suggestions at this point and every single one of them is so foolish and wrong that they are obviously better off having done nothing instead. That this crisis ridden country, this president with an approval rating in the low 30s, that losing rights, that being set up for a complete Republican takeover is the best we could have hoped for. The wisest possible course.
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Jul 12, 2022 18:05
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is pepsi ok posted:Does it give nobody here pause that every conceivable action that the Democrats could take is so doomed to fail that it's not even worth trying? I swear I've seen at least a few dozen suggestions at this point and every single one of them is so foolish and wrong that they are obviously better off having done nothing instead. That this crisis ridden country, this president with an approval rating in the low 30s, that losing rights, that being set up for a complete Republican takeover is the best we could have hoped for. The wisest possible course. Is this in response to any single post or a feeling you have? It sounds like an overreaction to a single option being questioned.
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Jul 12, 2022 18:16
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Just commenting on a trend I've noticed. Do you think it's unfair? What has been a course of action that the base has rallied around to try to force the issue on the party? I always seem to see the opposite. Everything gets quickly dismissed out of hand.
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Jul 12, 2022 18:24
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Actually, to add to this the most significant push I can recall was Force the Vote which was repeatedly downplayed and dismissed. The argument was made that we were better off letting the system play out, and I remember AOC specifically saying that FTV would distract from more attainable goals like $15/hr.
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Jul 12, 2022 18:28
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is pepsi ok posted:Does it give nobody here pause that every conceivable action that the Democrats could take is so doomed to fail that it's not even worth trying? I swear I've seen at least a few dozen suggestions at this point and every single one of them is so foolish and wrong that they are obviously better off having done nothing instead. That this crisis ridden country, this president with an approval rating in the low 30s, that losing rights, that being set up for a complete Republican takeover is the best we could have hoped for. The wisest possible course. Yeah, we need the Democratic party to die so the Green party can rise up and actually help people, have you been following the thread over the past decade?
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Jul 12, 2022 18:30
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is pepsi ok posted:Just commenting on a trend I've noticed. Do you think it's unfair? What has been a course of action that the base has rallied around to try to force the issue on the party? I always seem to see the opposite. Everything gets quickly dismissed out of hand. I see a lot of posts in this thread about what the Democrats can do. They just don't do it. I think you're misidentifying the problem out of frustration.
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Jul 12, 2022 18:33
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Flying-PCP posted:Yeah, we need the Democratic party to die so the Green party can rise up and actually help people, have you been following the thread over the past decade? Is that a yes then? This is the best we could have possibly done?
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Jul 12, 2022 18:33
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is pepsi ok posted:Is that a yes then? This is the best we could have possibly done? I'm not sure man I've just been working, raising a kid and Posting I didn't realize any of us were planning any non-hypothetical actions here. (Not to belittle at all the goons who are in fact Doing Things at any level, I just mean we're not organizing it here generally) Flying-PCP fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 18:40
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Gripweed posted:Do you really believe that? After what happened to Madison Cawthorne, do you really believe that political parties have no ways to discipline their own members? That is completely absurd to me. Not every politician is Madison Cawthorne.
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Jul 12, 2022 18:41
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Rigel posted:We would have had election reform (HR1), BBB, and abortion legislation all passed and signed into law right now if it wasn't for those two idiots. This is just plainly and unambiguously true. Once again we hear the clarion call of the Democratic Party: "We can't fight them! They're too strong!" Odd that it applies even to themselves. To be honest though, I think the American people are very patient and understanding of weakness, so I can understand why the Democratic Party really wants to get that message out there. I'm thinking they should adopt a Donkey, fleeing, as a logo, along with a nice fancy heraldric motto like "Mes Ennemis Sont Trop Fort."
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Jul 12, 2022 18:59
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Barr and Cipollone confirming the stories some people had that Trump wanted to have the DOJ and Secretary of Defense seize all voting machines following the 2020 election. Also, providing a draft executive order that was finalized and nearly released + information that Trump wanted to appoint Sidney Powell as a special council. https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1546912001561169927
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Jul 12, 2022 18:59
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Barr and Cipollone confirming the stories some people had that Trump wanted to have the DOJ and Secretary of Defense seize all voting machines following the 2020 election. Barr *and* Cipollone confirmed it? Trump's finished. This is the final nail in his coffin. Hope he enjoys prison cause it looks like he's going there any day now.
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Jul 12, 2022 19:02
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Not every politician is Madison Cawthorne. Whatever happened to that dude? What will it take for these ghouls to spill the tea?
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Jul 12, 2022 19:04
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Sharkie posted:Barr *and* Cipollone confirmed it? Trump's finished. This is the final nail in his coffin. Hope he enjoys prison cause it looks like he's going there any day now. I don't know if you realize how strong the protective shielding of rich white ex presidents is.
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Jul 12, 2022 19:10
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Jaxyon posted:I don't know if you realize how strong the protective shielding of rich white ex presidents is. He does. It's part of his gimmick.
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Jul 12, 2022 19:13
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Willa Rogers posted:There's also Hunter's phone list with his dad listed as Pedo Peter alongside his stepmom (Biden's deep cover nic was Peter Henderson, after a Clancy character) but that's gotta be a 4chan 'shop, right? RIGHT? Is there evidence of this besides a 4chan post?
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Jul 12, 2022 19:28
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Koos Group posted:Is there evidence of this besides a 4chan post? No. No one out side of 4chan, Twitter, and certain people in SA are treating this as it being either real or something worth giving a poo poo over if it is in fact real.
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Jul 12, 2022 19:30
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This is going to really tarnish the good name of noted non-rapist non-racist Joe Biden.
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Jul 12, 2022 19:33
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nine-gear crow posted:No. No one out side of 4chan, Twitter, and certain people in SA are treating this as it being either real or something worth giving a poo poo over if it is in fact real. There were faked things mixed in with actual real things from the Hunter Biden laptop "leaks" in 2020. This latest thing is allegedly an iCloud hack and there have been videos and pictures of Hunter released, so some of it is real (or at least, the pictures are real and came from somewhere). But, a lot of the text messages and other things are unverifiable and there may be fake stuff mixed in with the real stuff again. The PeterPedo thing looks fake, but some of the videos and pictures are real (although, we don't know for sure where they actually came from - iCloud, some other place, laptop, etc.) Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 19:37
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:There were faked things mixed in with actual real things from the Hunter Biden laptop "leaks" in 2020. Yeah, I'm skeptical of of the latest leak but at this point it's hard to deny the laptop existing and videos coming from it. Those videos are either legit or the first big op that we are seeing deep fakes deployed for and those would be very good deep fakes. Funniest bit from this is still the pornhub account that's still on the internet archive with pictures that are definitely Hunter.
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Jul 12, 2022 19:41
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:There were faked things mixed in with actual real things from the Hunter Biden laptop "leaks" in 2020. Yeah, I don't think anyone doesn't think that Hunter Biden is a shitbag. A lot of this stuff is just trying to gild the lily to make him seem even worse. Like "We need some stuff to make Hunter Biden look like a shitbag. What do we got?" / "Uhh, he's a crack addict, a sex pervert, a failson, and a fraudster?" / "No! I need SOMETHING MORE! [pounds table]" / "...I'll photoshop something then."
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Jul 12, 2022 19:42
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Jaxyon posted:This is going to really tarnish the good name of noted non-rapist non-racist Joe Biden. Polls conducted in May of 2020 indicated that either 45% or 68% of voters don't believe Joe Biden is a rapist, so there is at least some room for his reputation to be damaged in that regard.
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Jul 12, 2022 19:44
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Sephyr posted:This, pretty much. You can spin excuses all day, but in the end "I don't want to and it's upset my outfit" is the core reason 90% of the time. Holy cow. I read this thing and... just... wow. "Even if we'd known negotiating with Republicans would get us nowhere, waste time, and ruin everything It Was Still Important to Try." That's called being a dumb chump son! "There was absolutely nothing we could do about the bandit kings of 2008 except levy some tiny fines, gosh darn that law." That's called being owned by the banks son! Secretary of the Treasury Tim Geithner! The working man's friend! "It's actually a good thing all the Obama people have gone on to become capitalist tech vultures I MEAN populating businesses that are going to change the world Like Lyft!." That's called gently caress you got mine son! Man, imagine looking back on the shambolic disaster of the ACA negotiations and saying, "Yeah, even with hindsight, no changes whatsoever. It was so important that people saw us trying and completely failing, the country needs to see humans good-faith losing to a dog in basketball for a loving year." 
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Jul 12, 2022 19:47
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Koos Group posted:Polls conducted in May of 2020 indicated that either 45% or 68% of voters don't believe Joe Biden is a rapist, so there is at least some room for his reputation to be damaged in that regard. I would also guess that there is a solid 20% (possibly more) of irredeemable chuds who instinctively answer yes to any question of "Do you think (Democrat_Name) is guilty of (Horrible_Felony)".
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Jul 12, 2022 19:52
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JonathonSpectre posted:Holy cow. I read this thing and... just... wow. If we can just get 72 senators, that 16 percent of the senate party that keeps strangling the poor to death with their own entrails will be irrelevant.
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Jul 12, 2022 19:55
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Gumball Gumption posted:Yeah, I'm skeptical of of the latest leak but at this point it's hard to deny the laptop existing and videos coming from it. Those videos are either legit or the first big op that we are seeing deep fakes deployed for and those would be very good deep fakes. Funniest bit from this is still the pornhub account that's still on the internet archive with pictures that are definitely Hunter. I think it is incredibly unlikely that the videos and pictures are faked. They are almost certainly real. I'd say 99.9% likelihood they are real, just to leave the technical chance that they are fake since I didn't personally record them myself. The screenshots of text conversations and some other things are unverifiable and some of them seem really fake. Considering there were fake text chains and documents in the laptop leak, I think the easily fakeable stuff should get at least a pause. Maybe Hunter really did have his dad saved as "Pedo Peter" on his phone and emails from Chinese government officials thanking him for getting his father to weaken America with his soft on China policies, but seems weird. Hunter definitely loves him some crack, escorts, sleeping with random women, and scamming his dad out of money that he promised was for rehab, though.
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Jul 12, 2022 19:57
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is pepsi ok posted:Does it give nobody here pause that every conceivable action that the Democrats could take is so doomed to fail that it's not even worth trying? I swear I've seen at least a few dozen suggestions at this point and every single one of them is so foolish and wrong that they are obviously better off having done nothing instead. That this crisis ridden country, this president with an approval rating in the low 30s, that losing rights, that being set up for a complete Republican takeover is the best we could have hoped for. The wisest possible course. They’ve tried plenty of things. You can’t complain that points for effort matter so much and then ignore what’s been tried. But of course, that’s the nature of armchair quarterbacking. Everything they tried is wrong and everything they didn’t try must be correct and good.
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Jul 12, 2022 20:00
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Rigel posted:I would also guess that there is a solid 20% (possibly more) of irredeemable chuds who instinctively answer yes to any question of "Do you think (Democrat_Name) is guilty of (Horrible_Felony)". There does seem to be a strong political allegiance effect, as Republicans believed Reade at a higher rate than Democrats despite not being the party, erm, known for believing such allegations.
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Jul 12, 2022 20:09
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