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It’s fine in class based games for everyone to have the same stats. It’s only a problem in games where everyone can use every ability at the same time.
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Jul 12, 2022 23:45
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I hope characters get different class skills from each other.
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Jul 12, 2022 23:48
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They've already shown there are Interlink skill trees, so I would think that characters have different specializations even if they can be any class.
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Jul 13, 2022 00:05
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How important/worth is what happens in DE's Bionis Shoulder? I played a bit into it when the game came out but no Reyn/Sharla/Dunban made me lose interest like 2 hours in. Should I go back to finish it or am I good just reading a wiki recap?
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Jul 13, 2022 03:03
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lezard_valeth posted:How important/worth is what happens in DE's Bionis Shoulder? I played a bit into it when the game came out but no Reyn/Sharla/Dunban made me lose interest like 2 hours in. Should I go back to finish it or am I good just reading a wiki recap? It has Reyn and Sharla, they’re just Nopon. I don’t think anybody really knows yet whether that story will be important. It gives Melia some closure and she appears to be in the new game so it might matter.
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Jul 13, 2022 03:35
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I know it is meant to be standalone but is there anything I should know before going into Torna? I left off XC2 while my group was inside one of those big land whales. I doubt it is important to whatever XC3 is doing but I am curious about it, if nothing else as something of a preview for how 3 will play assuming it is building off of that.
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Jul 13, 2022 04:05
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Unlucky7 posted:I know it is meant to be standalone but is there anything I should know before going into Torna? I left off XC2 while my group was inside one of those big land whales. I doubt it is important to whatever XC3 is doing but I am curious about it, if nothing else as something of a preview for how 3 will play assuming it is building off of that. you will have to do every sidequest to finish it so get cracking
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Jul 13, 2022 04:08
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XC2 requires you to get a little sweaty with the combat, as you will otherwise get stonewalled by the late-game bosses that demand a chain attack or Level 4 Blade Combo to avoid their instant-kill abilities. And I have no idea how much they spam those moves once they perform the first one, as I just killed them in a single chain attack, so no idea if they get too frequent to keep dodging via level 4s or if the game eventually expects you to chain attack half of a boss’s health.
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Jul 13, 2022 04:47
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sudonim posted:I wonder how they're going to avoid the ff5 problem of "if everyone can do everything then It seems like characters might have affinities with different jobs from what we've seen. In the video there was an A/B/C sorta ranking associated with different jobs, which I'm guessing is a rating for how well suited the selected character is to it. edit: In this part, you can see a ranking in the top right - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoHvpS2x8us&t=1134s Blackbelt Bobman posted:It has Reyn and Sharla, they’re just Nopon. I don’t think anybody really knows yet whether that story will be important. It gives Melia some closure and she appears to be in the new game so it might matter. I'd be willing to bet that the relevance mainly centers around the existence/cause of the fog beasts (namely them filling a similar role to the Gnosis in Xenosaga). Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jul 13, 2022 |
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Jul 13, 2022 06:07
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Unlucky7 posted:I know it is meant to be standalone but is there anything I should know before going into Torna? I left off XC2 while my group was inside one of those big land whales. I doubt it is important to whatever XC3 is doing but I am curious about it, if nothing else as something of a preview for how 3 will play assuming it is building off of that. The only thing I can think of to tell you is that drivers in Torna have elemental affinities tied to their weapons and can swap those around by giving them different weapons. Although I never did. If meant story wise then no you're fine. XC3 doesn't look to be building off Torna's combat system. Which is a modified and streamlined version of XC2's with simplified Blade Combos and an expansion of the Battle Arts system for example. I only recognize the camp sites as a feature from Torna that's made it into 3 and a certain zone. also: New zone music. https://twitter.com/XenobladeJP/status/1547117726698651648?s=20&t=VuXGgSOmwjXiWSrd7XsTJQ
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Jul 13, 2022 09:56
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Unlucky7 posted:I know it is meant to be standalone but is there anything I should know before going into Torna? I left off XC2 while my group was inside one of those big land whales. I doubt it is important to whatever XC3 is doing but I am curious about it, if nothing else as something of a preview for how 3 will play assuming it is building off of that. I liked its battle system the best of the series and maybe its cast too. As far as tips your tank character can sacrifice HP to draw aggro from all enemies. If you're having trouble, set that character as your main, build for agility/evasion, and keep aggro the whole fight. It works for every enemy and on the higher difficulty. You also don't have to do all the sidequests to open the final dungeon, but will have to finish a lot.
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Jul 13, 2022 13:34
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Ytlaya posted:It seems like characters might have affinities with different jobs from what we've seen. In the video there was an A/B/C sorta ranking associated with different jobs, which I'm guessing is a rating for how well suited the selected character is to it. I think that's actually ranking the job's ability to use different types of arts. Swordfighter has A for a sword icon (Attacker presumably), Cs for the shield and heart icons (Defender and Healer), and then A again in the last category (not sure what that is, looks like a chess rook?). Then when you see Noah change to Guardian Commander, those rankings also change, to C/A/C/A, and since Guardian Commander is a Defender class, it makes sense it would have an A for Defender arts. So I'm guessing every character will be able to be roughly equally good at each class, but your current class determines how good you are at using arts from other roles, so you can't easily build a team of jack-of-all-trades characters. Everyone has to specialize, but it's up to you how each character specializes. This is without knowing if there are significant base stat differences between characters, though.
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Jul 13, 2022 13:56
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Fairly certain the chess rook is "Support". So like, buffs and debuffs and status ailments.
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Jul 13, 2022 14:25
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Harrow posted:Everyone has to specialize, but it's up to you how each character specializes. This is without knowing if there are significant base stat differences between characters, though. Yeah this is what I'm curious about. In ffv, you built your dualcast summoner or whatever but it didn't really matter if it was Butz or Faris. I'm hoping there's an extra wrinkle to the characters / jobs / etc to make everyone a little more distinct.
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Jul 13, 2022 14:38
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As an aside, FFT didn't have this problem as much because some stats made a big difference in job performance (brave/faith) and there were special characters with special jobs (Agrias/Mustadio/etc) that synergized with the standard classes in unique ways.
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Jul 13, 2022 14:40
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sudonim posted:Yeah this is what I'm curious about. In ffv, you built your dualcast summoner or whatever but it didn't really matter if it was Butz or Faris. I'm hoping there's an extra wrinkle to the characters / jobs / etc to make everyone a little more distinct. Why would you want that though? Making certain characters better at certain things makes large parts of the class system redundant. If someone is just naturally better at attacking there is very little reason to have them do anything else. Having your class decide your stats allows for a greater diversity in party makeup.
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Jul 13, 2022 14:43
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Ethiser posted:Why would you want that though? Making certain characters better at certain things makes large parts of the class system redundant. If someone is just naturally better at attacking there is very little reason to have them do anything else. Having your class decide your stats allows for a greater diversity in party makeup. If everyone can do each class equally well there's a pretty good chance that the optimal party composition will be everyone or almost everyone running one build, which is not interesting.
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Jul 13, 2022 14:49
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If the Ouroboros forms have unique stats/movesets that will be a way of distinguishing characters too, which would allow the job system a bit more freedom without making the characters homogenous
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Jul 13, 2022 14:50
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If, in a job/class based game, you have more than one character in the same job at the same time, you are weak.
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Jul 13, 2022 14:52
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IMO the optimal build is giving everyone zephyr because Mio's jacket has the best looking physics.
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Jul 13, 2022 14:53
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turn off the TV posted:If everyone can do each class equally well there's a pretty good chance that the optimal party composition will be everyone or almost everyone running one build, which is not interesting. I assume they balanced the combat system well enough that you need attack, defense and support abilities from different classes to be effective. And if they didn’t everyone having distinct stats just means you will also have one optimal part composition and in that case you can’t even pick which character does what, it will be predetermined.
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Jul 13, 2022 14:54
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I doubt the time when "welp, everyone should be this exact same moveset" will be hit 10% through the game and not like when you're almost done with the main story which is 70+ hours at which point you know what you want everyone to do
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Jul 13, 2022 15:03
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Ethiser posted:Why would you want that though? Making certain characters better at certain things makes large parts of the class system redundant. If someone is just naturally better at attacking there is very little reason to have them do anything else. Having your class decide your stats allows for a greater diversity in party makeup. I think there's a middle ground with something like FFT, per my comment above. Special characters like Agrias and Mustadio had special moveset that they could combine with standard classes for more unique multiclass options than the common jobbers you got at the recruitment center could do.
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Jul 13, 2022 15:09
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Making characters different instead of having everyone be literally interchangeable can be good, but doing it via different base stats is boring, since it generally just means "Guy is swordsman, girl is healer" is strictly superior to "Girl is swordsman, guy is healer". Stuff like character specific skill trees work better to make both setups different but viable.
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Jul 13, 2022 15:16
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turn off the TV posted:If everyone can do each class equally well there's a pretty good chance that the optimal party composition will be everyone or almost everyone running one build, which is not interesting. I have played many games that let you change classes around and I have never once done that. I have everyone in a different class. I think this is you problem. Terper posted:If, in a job/class based game, you have more than one character in the same job at the same time, you are weak. Basically this.
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Jul 13, 2022 15:28
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I wouldn't say there's a "pretty good chance" everyone in the same class will be the optimal strategy. It largely depends on the overall combat design. If that ends up being the best strategy then that means they've failed to make roles matter, which would be a bigger problem than just "everyone's equally good at every class." Assuming you actually need all three roles on your team, there's no way everyone being the same class will be optimal, barring some late-game "best at everything" class like FFV's endgame Freelancer or something.
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Jul 13, 2022 15:38
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The only time in a job class game that I had everyone be the exact same was FF12 vanilla because that game's balance was so poo poo that making everyone haste DPS was the only real solution to beating the super bosses.
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Jul 13, 2022 15:43
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Vanilla FFXII didn't even have jobs in the first place so I wouldn't call that a job/class game anyway There are definitely job system games where "everyone is the same job" ends up being optimal at endgame, or like "everyone is one of two jobs" sometimes, but that usually happens because there's an intentionally-designed uber-job at endgame like FFV's Freelancer or FFX-2's Mascot. It's possible that Xenoblade 3 will fail to make Defenders and Healers relevant at endgame and so it might turn into "make everyone whatever the strongest Attacker class is" but other than that I'd imagine there'll be at least some variety.
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Jul 13, 2022 15:45
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Harrow posted:Vanilla FFXII didn't even have jobs in the first place so I wouldn't call that a job/class game anyway I think it is more likely multiple attacker classes, each with a different focus, some with a defender or healer master art tacked on, likely because of the restriction on which you can pick based on the corresponding nation because I am guessing there is at least one or two good ones you want from both.
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Jul 13, 2022 15:50
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I haven’t played xenoblade 1 since 2011 but I remember the strat being “kill everything fast so you don’t need to heal.” If you needed actual healing outside of what shulk could do then you probably lost the fight anyway. Just go dps.
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Jul 13, 2022 16:20
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Yeah pretty much, I don’t remember 1 too well but in 2 it’s been all about damage with critical healing sometimes. Now that I’m in bringer of chaos I’m usually driver locking while building up the volcano dot or doing evasion stuff if there are a lot of enemies and spamming bullshit
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Jul 13, 2022 16:28
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Overbite posted:I haven’t played xenoblade 1 since 2011 but I remember the strat being “kill everything fast so you don’t need to heal.” in early game, yes once you get dunban though everything changes and you can heal yourself constantly thanks to chain attacks
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Jul 13, 2022 16:57
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Snake Maze posted:Making characters different instead of having everyone be literally interchangeable can be good, but doing it via different base stats is boring, since it generally just means "Guy is swordsman, girl is healer" is strictly superior to "Girl is swordsman, guy is healer". Stuff like character specific skill trees work better to make both setups different but viable. I keep bringing up FFV because it doesn't have those interesting wrinkles. Still a great game though.
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Jul 13, 2022 17:00
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I guess I just don’t want those “interesting wrinkles” because in class systems like this one where you can charge jobs as much as you want I don’t want anything to stop me from customizing my party in whichever way I feel like and characters having a bunch of unique abilities doesn’t let me do that.
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Jul 13, 2022 17:07
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Eunie is going to be a stabby murder queen and no one, not God nor Healer Stat Growth nor Klaus nor Takahashi himself will stop me.
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Jul 13, 2022 17:13
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They literally had Eunie be a greatsword/tank in the Direct so
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Jul 13, 2022 17:51
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Tae posted:They literally had Eunie be a greatsword/tank in the Direct so that's just how she starts stabby murder queen is the evolved form
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Jul 13, 2022 17:52
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Tae posted:They literally had Eunie be a greatsword/tank in the Direct so That's a tank Tae, I want Murder, I want Mayhem, I want Stabs Not Shields.
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Jul 13, 2022 17:57
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TurnipFritter posted:That's a tank Tae, I want Murder, I want Mayhem, I want Stabs Not Shields. And considering her base class is Sharla* if she could go tank for the direct she'll be able to go Goddess of Murder on your switch. *But hopefully usable
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Jul 13, 2022 19:09
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Harrow posted:I think that's actually ranking the job's ability to use different types of arts. Swordfighter has A for a sword icon (Attacker presumably), Cs for the shield and heart icons (Defender and Healer), and then A again in the last category (not sure what that is, looks like a chess rook?). Then when you see Noah change to Guardian Commander, those rankings also change, to C/A/C/A, and since Guardian Commander is a Defender class, it makes sense it would have an A for Defender arts. Not those letters, the ones in the very top right. For Guardian Commander, for example, there's an S to the top right of the role rankings. edit: Probably easier to just use a screenshot: 
Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jul 13, 2022 |
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Jul 13, 2022 19:16
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