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Herstory Begins Now posted:people keep repeating poo poo like this and it's dumb and a relic of like 2014 brain because at the moment trump can't even call up a former lawyer without getting the doj notified of potential witness tampering This post about Trump's fans is dumb because it does not accurately describe the behavior of a government institution?
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Jul 14, 2022 15:49
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Pissed Ape Sexist posted:Yeah, that's where I'm at. That's why the early-on cries insisting that people should sever from family members who have been brainwashed seemed so gross to me as well. It's like some awful disease grown in a lab with very specific, tested, exploitative intent, and most people didn't get wrapped up in it entirely through their own free will. It's sad. The effort and time to try and convince people or reverse what is essentially brainwashing by right wing propaganda is astronomical compared to the constant bullshit flowing out from right wing media. There isn't a good way of breaking someone out of it that doesn't involve infringing upon their free will, or them making their own decision to stop engaging with it. Not sure what you expect the average person or family to do in these conditions. Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jul 14, 2022 |
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Jul 14, 2022 15:54
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Mercury_Storm posted:The effort and time to try and convince people reverse what is essentially brainwashing by right wing propaganda is astronomical and there isn't a good way of breaking someone out of it that doesn't involve infringing upon their free will, or the person making the decision on their own. Not sure what you expect the average person or family to do in these conditions. Yeah, the reality is these guys are only showing remorse because they faced legal consequences for their actions, not because their family member talked them out of it. Facing jail time often is a wake up call and that's beyond the capability of most family members to have that much sway.
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Jul 14, 2022 15:57
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Mercury_Storm posted:The effort and time to try and convince people who have been brainwashed by right wing propaganda is astronomical and there isn't a good way of breaking someone out of it that doesn't involve infringing upon their free will. Not sure what you expect the average person or family to do in these conditions. Even my liberal family members get baited by some reactionary propaganda. It's a minor, low consequence thing, but my sister, who's probably second only to me in leftist-ness among my immediate family, was ranting about fuckin' almond milk not long ago, and turning her around on that ("yeah almonds are an inefficient crop in terms of water, but you gotta water the crops for feed and then the cow itself for cow's milk costing, in total, more water per gallon of milk, and here's the data that affirms that") was like pulling teeth. And my armchair psychologist guess for why this is is that feeling outraged at someone for challenging your way of life in a way you can somehow deem objectively wrong feels good and validating in some lizard-brained way. Outrage is addictive, and various entities have spent decades fine-tuning outrage against minorities, vegans, environmental activists, etc, and the recent addition of putting them all under the umbrella term of "woke" is working wonders. So, yeah, long story short I don't blame anyone that doesn't want to do the work of deprograming a relative that's become a far-right extremist. I can barely handle the bits of bullshit my generally sensible family buys into. Decon fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jul 14, 2022 |
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Jul 14, 2022 16:01
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Prominent conservatives issue report rebutting Trump election claims https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/14/politics/conservatives-report-trump-2020-election-claims/index.html quote:A group of conservatives, including prominent lawyers and retired federal judges, issued a 72-page report on Thursday categorically rebutting each of the claims made in court by former President Donald Trump and his supporters over the 2020 election results.
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Jul 14, 2022 16:41
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Mercury_Storm posted:The effort and time to try and convince people or reverse what is essentially brainwashing by right wing propaganda is astronomical compared to the constant bullshit flowing out from right wing media. There isn't a good way of breaking someone out of it that doesn't involve infringing upon their free will, or them making their own decision to stop engaging with it. Not sure what you expect the average person or family to do in these conditions. It's a constant fire-hose of bullshit that is crafted just well enough that showing its bullshit requires both energy and the party to take time to understand the issue. For example, I remember when Muller was getting thrashed for 'smuggling uranium to Russia on behalf of Hillary Clinton.'. I actually had to research the issue, find out that he was in charge of shipping a very small sample, (10 grams worth, or the amount the size of your pinky nail) for a very specific purpose to help prevent illegal exports. It took me a good five minutes to explain this to someone, and when he actually stopped and listened he agreed that it wasn't a big deal. But that took time on my part, and if my friend hadn't actually listened he'd still be spouting it probably. But I can't keep up with it, because for every 1 thing that gets debunked via time and effort, 5 other things get splattered on the wall like catsup at the White House. Its designed to be exhausting.
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Jul 14, 2022 18:30
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Cimber posted:off topic, but why the hell do tweets no imbed when I am using my macbook (Firefox), but imbed when I am using my PC (also firefox)
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Jul 14, 2022 18:31
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Cimber posted:It's a constant fire-hose of bullshit that is crafted just well enough that showing its bullshit requires both energy and the party to take time to understand the issue. Churchill might've been a dickhead, but he was right about "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." And when the lie is being peddled by a gaggle of half-drunk extended family members whose response to being challenged is to just call you a communist and otherwise belittle and dehumanize you despite "blood being thicker than water"? Yeah I don't blame those that would rather just check the gently caress out.
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Jul 14, 2022 18:44
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SubG posted:Given that the committee has apparently been flooded with new material since the start of the hearings, apparently some. But there's only one hearing left, right?
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Jul 14, 2022 20:26
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https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1547664111831433227
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Jul 14, 2022 20:28
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My entire life, since birth, has been in the same conservative town. My life has always been just scraping by and living paycheck to paycheck. I've been financially strapped most of my life. And yet I never turned into a chud. Ever. Even though I was surrounded by true believers my entire life. I don't buy that that dude didn't stand a chance or whatever. I'm glad he seems to have come around, but I question if it's genuine or if he's trying to save his own rear end. BigBallChunkyTime fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jul 14, 2022 |
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Jul 14, 2022 20:31
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I think we should be concerned there is this much of a MAGA "Pro-Coup" contingent in the Praetorian guard and should act accordingly. As in "fire all of them" accordingly.
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Jul 14, 2022 20:39
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:But there's only one hearing left, right? Only one more scheduled so far. The committee goes until it decides to stop. If Bennie Thompson decides to call in the camera crew at 3AM tonight to read some autobiographical erotic poetry, that can be arranged. There are rumors/rumbles about more hearings into August, but those might mess with indictments cause the DoJ is incentivized to wait for the committee to finish. It all depends on what they’ve got and how much more is coming in and a bunch of complex strategic concerns and only an unknown percentage of that is public knowledge.
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Jul 14, 2022 20:45
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Cimber posted:It's a constant fire-hose of bullshit that is crafted just well enough that showing its bullshit requires both energy and the party to take time to understand the issue. There is definitely a thing though where people have the right reaction for completely made up reasons though and it happens quite a bit. Mueller is a great example, that dude absolutely lost all integrity and should have rightfully been investigated and kicked out of power decades ago but not for some made up uranium poo poo. It’s wild he became some liberal hero. Like, don’t distrust him because some barely important uranium story. Distrust him because he helped fabricate evidence to invade Iraq.
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Jul 14, 2022 21:36
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Danger posted:There is definitely a thing though where people have the right reaction for completely made up reasons though and it happens quite a bit. Mueller is a great example, that dude absolutely lost all integrity and should have rightfully been investigated and kicked out of power decades ago but not for some made up uranium poo poo. It’s wild he became some liberal hero. Uhh, what? Im looking at his wiki page now and he didn't really have much to do about the invasion of Iraq.
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Jul 14, 2022 22:04
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Cimber posted:Uhh, what? Im looking at his wiki page now and he didn't really have much to do about the invasion of Iraq. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4719428/user-clip-mueller-testifies-iraqs-wmds He was most definitely an outspoken part of the architecture of disinformation leading up to the invasion of Iraq. Danger fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jul 14, 2022 |
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Jul 14, 2022 22:56
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Ahh. Well I'm not going to debate his role in the Iraq war run-up as its becides the point I was trying to make, which is that the right wing media spews out bullshit faster than anyone can keep up, and thats not including the disinformation campaigns other countries run on social media.
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Jul 15, 2022 01:16
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TulliusCicero posted:I think we should be concerned there is this much of a MAGA "Pro-Coup" contingent in the Praetorian guard and should act accordingly. They did get him a new team. Don't know if they fired the old ones (they should have). https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/31/joe-biden-secret-service-team-trump-loyalty
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Jul 15, 2022 01:43
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Pence didn't trust his secret service detail either. In an ultimately very significant move, he refused to leave the capitol with them on 1/6.
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Jul 15, 2022 02:03
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https://twitter.com/axios/status/1547718108621639680 Wonder what message they could be sending here. 
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Jul 15, 2022 02:39
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-Blackadder- posted:https://twitter.com/axios/status/1547718108621639680 I’m gonna make a wild guess that they’re going to be very, very bad. Also, are the SS not banned from destroying documents/evidence like this? They must be, right? It sounds insane that there wouldn’t be a massive smackdown for doing this.
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Jul 15, 2022 02:43
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Everybody knows deleting texts makes them be gone forever.
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Jul 15, 2022 02:48
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Xiahou Dun posted:I’m gonna make a wild guess that they’re going to be very, very bad.
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Jul 15, 2022 03:05
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Xiahou Dun posted:I’m gonna make a wild guess that they’re going to be very, very bad. Theoretically I guess it could be something generally offensive or threatening to their careers but not directly relevant, like calling Pence "horsefucker" instead of his code name or lots of racist jokes. Y'know, frat boy bullshit like they get caught in periodically, and usually try to cover up. It looks horrible, obviously.
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Jul 15, 2022 03:10
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the paradigm shift posted:they called it a storage malfunction from changing phones but records show this was after they were told not to delete anything according to the doj internal investigation The rule breaking is bad. The cover up always makes it worse. Always.
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Jul 15, 2022 03:10
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-Blackadder- posted:https://twitter.com/axios/status/1547718108621639680 "Trump just tried to choke me, what the gently caress?" Oh you meant what message the committee is sending 
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Jul 15, 2022 04:14
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Xiahou Dun posted:I’m gonna make a wild guess that they’re going to be very, very bad. Pretty sure destruction of requested documents is a civil if not criminal offense no matter who you are. Especially once your OIG requests it. IANAL but looks like at minimum it falls under 18 U.S.C. § 1001 and 36 C.F.R. § 1230.
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Jul 15, 2022 04:30
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-Blackadder- posted:https://twitter.com/axios/status/1547718108621639680 "Don't forget, we're the NSA, we already have a copy of everything you texted and a backdoor to your phone"
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Jul 15, 2022 04:40
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Like yeah the SS being more loyal to an egomaniacal fascist than the government is real bad. ACAB and all that, but it's even worse than normal cop awfulness. My understanding is he intentionally tried to staff his detail with goons favorable to him for more or less this reason
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Jul 15, 2022 04:54
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Pence didn't trust his secret service detail either. In an ultimately very significant move, he refused to leave the capitol with them on 1/6. I always read that as he wanted to finish the vote counting process and wasn't sure if his detail would let him come back to do that.
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Jul 15, 2022 07:00
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V-Men posted:I always read that as he wanted to finish the vote counting process and wasn't sure if his detail would let him come back to do that. Yeah I don't mean that in the sense that he thought they were going to hand him to the mob or something, but he definitely did not trust them to ensure that the election would be certified if he got in the car with them. Pence was clearly aware that that was important above all else. Also I think there's a certain amount of reading between the lines that is also due when a VP is refusing to get into a car with the secret service as the capitol is being over-run by trump's supporters. It's only weirder in light of what we now know about the amount of pressure that was being directed at Pence from the Flynn/Stone/Rudy/Trump wing of the whitehouse. You probably could make a decent case that he was legitimately uncertain about the intentions of the secret service that day, but to be clear, that specifically is speculative. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 07:08
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If Trump had a loyal goon squad amongst the Secret Service (I say 'if' in the sense that there's not glaring proof, I suppose), then it's hard to imagine Pence would not know about it. After all, until 1/6, he was a loyal goon as well, and something like that probably seemed pretty great. I've always wondered a little bit if Pence saw that tweet from Trump that was basically saying "will no one rid me of this meddling VP?" around the time it was sent out. Imagine realizing that the guy you've been toadying for, for four years, genuinely wants you dead, his most loyal followers are right this second trying to carry that desire out, and you know that there are members of the Secret Service that are every bit as loyal as that, if not more. I wouldn't want to get into that car either.
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Jul 15, 2022 08:00
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Trump replaced the head of the secret service, why not go even further and just surround himself with cultists. Which is why I assume they are deleting texts and claiming Cassidy is lying.
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Jul 15, 2022 09:53
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OgNar posted:Trump replaced the head of the secret service, why not go even further and just surround himself with cultists. Only a couple of Trump's enablers within the secret service are doing so, and not under oath. Other people are coming out and backing up Cassidy's statements. The witness that Trump was trying to intimidate is apparently one of the staff who cleaned up his tantrums. quote:I think we should be concerned there is this much of a MAGA "Pro-Coup" contingent in the Praetorian guard and should act accordingly. If I remember correctly, Biden went into office and basically had the team protecting him completely replaced in case there was a crazed Trump loyalist. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 10:14
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  Epsteined is now trending 
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Jul 15, 2022 11:04
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V-Men posted:I always read that as he wanted to finish the vote counting process and wasn't sure if his detail would let him come back to do that. We simply don't know what he actually meant, and it's unlikely we ever will. I tend to think he was so freaked out that he wasn't going to leave a place where he felt safe.
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Jul 15, 2022 12:25
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mdemone posted:We simply don't know what he actually meant, and it's unlikely we ever will. I want soooooooo badly for Pence to testify. The closer the gop gets to cutting trumpism out like the cancer it is, the more likely he flips. I love how the committee continually praises Pence for defying Trump's coup, giving him a path forward to testify as a hero of democracy (which in every other circumstance is laughably insane)
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Jul 15, 2022 15:57
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Judge Schnoopy posted:I want soooooooo badly for Pence to testify. The closer the gop gets to cutting trumpism out like the cancer it is, the more likely he flips. I love how the committee continually praises Pence for defying Trump's coup, giving him a path forward to testify as a hero of democracy (which in every other circumstance is laughably insane) I'm still holding out hope for a movie moment of Pence coming out in prime time and just spilling it all, but I know that's a pipe dream and I also dont know if I want to give him a visual like that for elections.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:24
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:My entire life, since birth, has been in the same conservative town. My life has always been just scraping by and living paycheck to paycheck. I've been financially strapped most of my life. What you've said runs perfectly parallel to the old line "I grew up poor, but I became rich, so if you grew up poor and stayed poor then it just reflects poorly on you." Your ideological-rags-to-ideological-riches anecdote is inspiring, but the reality is that our political views usually come from our attempts to fit in or stand out in relation to our immediate peers.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:28
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Judge Schnoopy posted:I want soooooooo badly for Pence to testify. The closer the gop gets to cutting trumpism out like the cancer it is, the more likely he flips. I love how the committee continually praises Pence for defying Trump's coup, giving him a path forward to testify as a hero of democracy (which in every other circumstance is laughably insane) Trumpism is just saying what they already think out loud. The cult of personality is one they've already had under Reagan. None of this is unique. If they remove "trumpism" they still are fascists.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:41
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