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Jaxyon posted:Trumpism is just saying what they already think out loud. The cult of personality is one they've already had under Reagan. I don't disagree. But just this one time, let's send a piece of poo poo president to jail, just to enjoy a tiny victory in these end of days
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Jul 15, 2022 17:05
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Jaxyon posted:Trumpism is just saying what they already think out loud. The cult of personality is one they've already had under Reagan. Trump didn’t change the ideology at all, but his idiot savant ability to burn people ruthlessly combined with Sarah Palin level stupid and an utter lack of shame moved the fascist time table up a decade. Every other gop official is either dumb but unable to land trump level insults or vicious but smart which is a deal breaker for the mouth breathing base.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:09
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Judge Schnoopy posted:I don't disagree. But just this one time, let's send a piece of poo poo president to jail, just to enjoy a tiny victory in these end of days He might have accidentally done the one single thing that could get a president indicted. Pretty drat remarkable when you think about it.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:12
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Judge Schnoopy posted:I want soooooooo badly for Pence to testify. The closer the gop gets to cutting trumpism out like the cancer it is, the more likely he flips. I love how the committee continually praises Pence for defying Trump's coup, giving him a path forward to testify as a hero of democracy (which in every other circumstance is laughably insane) Not gonna happen. That IS the GOP right now and definitely for the foreseeable future - at least to my eyes. At a bare minimum, it's a significant and rock solid part of their base that can't be ignored and will be for some time. Republican candidates moving forward will just have to polish it up a little bit and work on the presentation but a good 25% or 30% of their voters are completely dug in and believe in the Big Lie, border walls, fascism, fake news, adrenochrome, pedophile teachers grooming kids and genuinely want to live in an AMerican brand of theocratic dictatorship. Probably more than 30%. The road to Republican viability is paved with a road of constantly having to out conservative the next person and being a bigger rear end in a top hat than the other guy. I don't see that changing in my lifetime.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:17
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Jaxyon posted:Trumpism is just saying what they already think out loud. The cult of personality is one they've already had under Reagan. But saying those things out loud isn't just nothing. It influences people. If I walk into a coffee shop, it means something for me if I don't have people yelling at me for being queer, and instead they keep their bigotry to themselves. It hurts people when elected members of the government go on TV and say that transgender people are pedophiles who are grooming their children, instead of only talking about that behind closed doors. The more you let people give a voice to their hatred, the more it emboldens them and those around them to go even further. Maybe most importantly, it's harder to find like-minded people and form groups if you can't openly talk about your ideology.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:36
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XboxPants posted:But saying those things out loud isn't just nothing. It influences people. If I walk into a coffee shop, it means something for me if I don't have people yelling at me for being queer, and instead they keep their bigotry to themselves. It hurts people when elected members of the government go on TV and say that transgender people are pedophiles who are grooming their children, instead of only talking about that behind closed doors. The more you let people give a voice to their hatred, the more it emboldens them and those around them to go even further. That's not true at all. The current rise in open bigotry is a response years of white cis resentment. Trump was a symptom, not a cause. If you think removing trump is going to slow down the run to white christo-fascism, you're going to be disappointed.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:40
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They can excise Trump from the party and very little would change. They'd just put all their facist eggs in the DeSantis basket. Trump was merely a useful idiot, in that he motivated the base and made it so they didn't have to pretend they weren't fascists anymore. If DeSantis replaces him we're hosed, because he's every bit as evil and 100x more competent.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:51
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Judge Schnoopy posted:I want soooooooo badly for Pence to testify. The closer the gop gets to cutting trumpism out like the cancer it is, the more likely he flips. Just note that Trumpism is cult of personality towards TFG. The GOP's issues go much further than cutting him out. I'd argue we are much more in danger if they do cut trumpism out of the GOP, because we might get someone who's loving competent and evil, like DeSantis. [edit] I see everyone else has dogpiled on this comment too.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:13
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DeSantis won't be 1% as effective at turning out the deplorables, and he has all the charisma of a small chair. You guys are doing the thing where if Alabama loses then the #2 team is automatically #1, but this doesn't work that way.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:15
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:Trump was merely a useful idiot, in that he motivated the base and made it so they didn't have to pretend they weren't fascists anymore. If DeSantis replaces him we're hosed, because he's every bit as evil and 100x more competent. And also slayed The Great Hillary Dragon. In addition, I suspect he motivated a lot of people who don't normally vote to get out and do so but I'm not sure. The kind of people who want to cut off people's hands for stealing and are "sick and tired of all these politicians" and who usually tune out. Mean and uneducated white people basically who feel like "finally someone speaks for me and tells it like it is!". I heard that a lot. The type that thinks that anyone who is rich is automatically smart. Except (black) athletes and (liberal hollywood) entertainers. Those people should shut up and stay out of politics. mdemone posted:DeSantis won't be 1% as effective at turning out the deplorables, and he has all the charisma of a small chair. Yes he will.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:26
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mdemone posted:DeSantis won't be 1% as effective at turning out the deplorables, and he has all the charisma of a small chair. Want to stake the country on that? Once Fox News decides that he's officially the golden child, thats it.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:28
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Jaxyon posted:That's not true at all. The current rise in open bigotry is a response years of white cis resentment. Trump was a symptom, not a cause. They didn't say it would. As many of the leaders of the movement as possible have to go down, and cis white people who aren't on that side have to stand up to this bullshit whenever possible. The resentment isn't going away in our lifetimes, efforts like this are part of what can be done against it.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:29
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Cimber posted:Want to stake the country on that? Once Fox News decides that he's officially the golden child, thats it. No, I don't think I will. Also I'm not sure the Right is as unified as they once were. Maybe the only potential upside here.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:30
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A random conversation the other day turned to past experiences with voir dire and the random, sometimes pointless questions the lawyers ask (to burn out the clock, or hoping to get lucky). I started thinking about who'd get selected for the jury. To whit: Need more entries in the lists... vvv Yeah please share or PM me. I'll try to add more Sunday. PhantomOfTheCopier fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 18:32
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BiggerBoat posted:And also slayed The Great Hillary Dragon. Trump did. About 2 million more people voted for him vs Romney in 2012, while Clinton lost only about 100,000 people vs Obama. Notably, Obama got 69 million votes in 2008, so he lost 4 million votes from 2008. The GOP gained 1 million votes in the same time period. Year Dems GOP 2008 69.5 M 59.9M 2012 65.9M 60.9M 2016 65.8M 62.9M (winner even though 3 million less votes, go figure) 2020 81.2M 74.2M Huge increase in 2020 from 2016 in both sides. Cimber fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 18:33
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Jaxyon posted:That's not true at all. The current rise in open bigotry is a response years of white cis resentment. Trump was a symptom, not a cause. The debate wasn't about removing Trump, but Trumpism, which you define as "Trumpism is just saying what they already think out loud". The original poster referenced the GOP cutting out trumpism like a cancer. To me that means removing support for politicians who are calling for policy that attacks minorities & other vulnerable populations based on nothing more than openly bigoted justifications. I would see that as a win. It doesn't stop bigotry, but it makes it just a tiny bit harder. As an example, you have this Rep from Illinois who's backed by Trump and said that Dobbs is "a historic victory for white life" at her campaign rally. (link) To me, it's good if elected officials stop saying poo poo like that and have to at least come up with some kind of justification for their cruel & hateful policy, rather than just being able to go up on stage and say "vote for me because I'll protect white privilege". Because, yes, the current rise in open bigotry is a response to years of white cis resentment, but that's cyclical; racist politicians stoke white resentment, which leads to more open bigotry, which leads to more resentment, and around it goes. Those aren't the only factors, but when you have widespread general feelings of alienation it's really easy to exploit that and say "these people are your enemies! these are the baddies! and because of that, we should oppress them!" That's the thing I was commenting on.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:41
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Cimber posted:Want to stake the country on that? Once Fox News decides that he's officially the golden child, thats it. Fox does not solely anoint conservative presidents. not even fox thinks that they have close to that power.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:57
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:A random conversation the other day turned to past experiences with voir dire and the random, sometimes pointless questions the lawyers ask (to burn out the clock, or hoping to get lucky). I started thinking about who'd get selected for the jury. To whit: Landlord Ex-NHLer Rancher Oil worker Kane C-List actor/actress
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Jul 15, 2022 19:04
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Fox does not solely anoint conservative presidents. not even fox thinks that they have close to that power. You have to throw in FB, YT, talk radio and all the other bullshit these people routinely absorb though. It absolutely has a pretty dramatic and serious effect on how people think and how they vote. Something like 75% of Republicans still think 2020 was stolen and decent percentage of them think Antifa was behind 1/6. It's the entire RWM apparatus, not just FOX.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:55
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Cimber posted:Want to stake the country on that? Once Fox News decides that he's officially the golden child, thats it. Yeah, just as they did with Ryan, Cruz, Walker, Jeb, etc. RWM throws every piece of poo poo at the wall but the audience decides what sticks.
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Jul 15, 2022 20:06
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Madkal posted:I always wonder what are people's breaking points. For the oath keeper dude it was Holocaust denial. it depends on the person. i think for some of them its them thinking everyone involved is as "rational" as they are and that shits a "joke" or whatever and that much "oh god who are these psychos" make you walk back hard. i have had similar on much much lighter notes going to comic cons. its fun to like weird fandom poo poo because its nice/etc but then you meet the weird socialy dumb folks and it gets weird real quick. XboxPants posted:The debate wasn't about removing Trump, but Trumpism, which you define as "Trumpism is just saying what they already think out loud". The original poster referenced the GOP cutting out trumpism like a cancer. To me that means removing support for politicians who are calling for policy that attacks minorities & other vulnerable populations based on nothing more than openly bigoted justifications. I would see that as a win. It doesn't stop bigotry, but it makes it just a tiny bit harder. this. trump is definetly his own thing but he is sorta a symptom of a really bad cancer thats been around(least modern wise) since the 60s and now its fully metastases and poo poo. destroying trump probably fractures the party at least internally
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Jul 15, 2022 21:02
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I don't know who you people think DeSantis is, but if he loses an election he's not going to incite a civil war. He doesn't have the balls to stand there and say he wins, 3 million votes and 80 electoral votes down, and that the election simply didn't matter because it was rigged. He doesn't have the gall to fire and ignore every advisor who doesn't agree with him and take secret meetings with crackpot conspiracy theorists instead. If Trump loses another election, people will die in the direct aftermath. If either of them win the country is sent a hundred years back in progress and everybody loses so that's totally not my point.
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Jul 15, 2022 21:16
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Again, if you watch the Republican debates Trump says he supports a Muslim ban and Rubio and Cruz said they did too they just wouldn't put it that way. Trump laid bare what the GOP is and their voters are ok with it.
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Jul 15, 2022 21:40
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Re: Deleted Secret Service texts. Even though they are deleted are they really gone for good? I'm not sure if it was just standard SMS texts like normal people use but doesn't the mobile carrier keep a copy of all that? And if so can't the Jan 6 Committee just subpoena those records?
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Jul 15, 2022 21:49
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Cimber posted:Want to stake the country on that? Once Fox News decides that he's officially the golden child, thats it. It will be fun to see them take a side between the two.
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Jul 15, 2022 22:00
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Judge Schnoopy posted:I don't know who you people think DeSantis is, but if he loses an election he's not going to incite a civil war. He doesn't have the balls to stand there and say he wins, 3 million votes and 80 electoral votes down, and that the election simply didn't matter because it was rigged. He doesn't have the gall to fire and ignore every advisor who doesn't agree with him and take secret meetings with crackpot conspiracy theorists instead. I don't know. Maybe DeSantis sees just how close we were to disaster on January 6,.and realizes he's actually smart enough to pull off Coup attempt 2: Electric Boogaloo
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Jul 15, 2022 22:02
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Charliegrs posted:Re: Deleted Secret Service texts. Even though they are deleted are they really gone for good? I'm not sure if it was just standard SMS texts like normal people use but doesn't the mobile carrier keep a copy of all that? And if so can't the Jan 6 Committee just subpoena those records? The NSA has literally all those texts, and all your texts, stored in a supermassive relational database
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Jul 15, 2022 23:01
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Failed Imagineer posted:The NSA has literally all those texts, and all your texts, stored in a supermassive relational database Yeah I pretty much figured that. So I guess the bigger story is that the Secret Service deleted (LOL if they didn't know what you just said about the NSA) the texts and not so much that they will be irretrievable.
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Jul 15, 2022 23:10
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The superrelational database of a lifetime's thoughts and interests still doesn't know my heart.
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Jul 15, 2022 23:10
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Charliegrs posted:Yeah I pretty much figured that. So I guess the bigger story is that the Secret Service deleted (LOL if they didn't know what you just said about the NSA) the texts and not so much that they will be irretrievable. Nah the problem will be getting them. Whoever has them is not likely to just hand them over, it'll be a whole drat thing.
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Jul 15, 2022 23:11
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BiggerBoat posted:You have to throw in FB, YT, talk radio and all the other bullshit these people routinely absorb though. It absolutely has a pretty dramatic and serious effect on how people think and how they vote. Something like 75% of Republicans still think 2020 was stolen and decent percentage of them think Antifa was behind 1/6. They anoint candidates (generally, albeit not perfectly, either), not presidents.
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Jul 15, 2022 23:20
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^^^Well, we're kind of splitting hairs here since one begets the other^^^ But I suppose I kind of see the point you're trying to make. Still, RWM did their fair share of heavy lifting for "candidate" Trump by normalizing, rationalizing and re-framing all the stupid poo poo he said and did leading up to his nomination and it only got worse as he consistently stomped over the normal establishment GOP candidates. Hell, the MSM gave Trump so much free coverage (because ratings) that he barely had to spend money on ads and Hannity increasingly gave him a prime time microphone every loving night. Judge Schnoopy posted:I don't know who you people think DeSantis is, but if he loses an election he's not going to incite a civil war. He doesn't have the balls to stand there and say he wins, 3 million votes and 80 electoral votes down, and that the election simply didn't matter because it was rigged. He doesn't have the gall to fire and ignore every advisor who doesn't agree with him and take secret meetings with crackpot conspiracy theorists instead. We think that he's Trump without the malignant narcissism and blatant selfishness basically. Well, I shouldn't speak for everybody but that's what I see at least. And I live in Florida. He probably not go as far as you say, but I wouldn't put it past him to further shore up voting laws in an attempt to root out "fraud" and basically attempt the same thing only more 'by the book' and with a higher degree of plausible deniability. Draping it all in an American flag, a bible and rambling on about freedom and fair elections. The implication will be the same (The Democrats are trying to cheat) and it will play to the same crowd but, at a minimum, it will LOOK better in ways that the MSM will treat with more seriousness. He created his own private Voter Fraud Police Force or whatever the gently caress it is here in Florida that answers to basically no one but him and can do whatever the gently caress they want on election day or the days before and after. He'll do the same poo poo Trump's attempted but with far less of the stupidity and blatancy since he's way more intelligent than Donald is. BigBallChunkyTime posted:It will be fun to see them take a side between the two. Whoever starts to separate themselves from the field in the primaries. The GOP had a LOT of Never Trumpers for a good long while until it became clear he was winning. Then it became a lot of "what he REALLY meant was..." and a whole bunch of poo poo about the media won't give him a break. I watched the normalization of his nonsense happen in real time. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Jul 16, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 23:58
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You're all missing the point: the thing that separates Trump from DeSantis is exactly the reason the latter can't win a national primary. I ain't saying I know who's coming out of the rubble but....
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Jul 16, 2022 00:00
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mdemone posted:You're all missing the point: the thing that separates Trump from DeSantis is exactly the reason the latter can't win a national primary. He absolutely can. And I'm not sure why you think he can't It will be fun to see these two idiots fight each other if it comes to that in a race to the bottom of who's the most horrible rear end in a top hat. Until one of them gets elected two years from now. Which I fully expect will happen. Right now, the GOP has two viable candidates that their base will absolutely vote for in a general election. The dems...?
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Jul 16, 2022 00:09
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I think Dems learned their lesson in 2016. Especially if Trump is the nominee again. I don't care who has the D next to their name, they'd get my vote to keep Trump out of office.
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Jul 16, 2022 00:49
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:I think Dems learned their lesson in 2016. Especially if Trump is the nominee again. I don't care who has the D next to their name, they'd get my vote to keep Trump out of office. They're counting on it
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Jul 16, 2022 00:59
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Can desantis beat most flat brained Dems? Yes. Can desantis beat trump? That's the question.
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Jul 16, 2022 01:16
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Don using Ivanas death to get out of Deposition today. He postponed his rally to next Friday. But how long will he try to postpone the deposition?
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Jul 16, 2022 01:17
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OgNar posted:Don using Ivanas death to get out of Deposition today. On whatever stormfront truth website ge posts on he said many people loved her but never states he actually loved her in any way The woman is partly responsible for the psycho he is as she was definitely a consiligierie of his that has a major heartbeat on some things he did. Guy didn't even say "the mother of my children" or anything bordelining endearing.
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Jul 16, 2022 01:21
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BiggerBoat posted:They're counting on it I get that, but they kind of have us over a barrel. If we don't vote, we risk the Republican getting elected, and if we *do* vote, it is likely for a shitlib
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Jul 16, 2022 01:27
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