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Arsenic Lupin posted:Capuchin friars normally (it's not required any more) have beards. Monk monkeys eh! No wonder they're hairy. e: wow I looked for a cute pic to open the page and they can certainly make disapproving faces with the best of em 
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Jul 9, 2022 18:28
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Under Charlemagne...quote:Taking their cue from the classical past, and also from St. Paul’s rejection of long hair in the First Letter to the Corinthians, church authorities formally legislated short hair for all clergy. 7 Beards were not specifically regulated but fell under the general rule of moderation. Because the German nobility proudly grew their hair long, this instruction helped differentiate churchmen from laymen. A council of bishops meeting in Portugal in the year 563 prohibited clergy from wearing long hair “like pagans.”8 This ban was repeated by later councils throughout Western Europe, and by 721, Pope Gregory II was threatening long-haired priests in the province of Rome with excommunication. It was clearly more than a matter of decorum; short hair had become an essential symbol of priesthood and holiness. quote:Adopting the professionalism of monks meant looking like monks. Before the eleventh century, only monks had been required to shave. Now it was mandated for all churchmen. Beardlessness was next to godliness. As Pope Gregory engaged in battle with secular power, he vigorously enforced this and other reform measures. He excommunicated bishops for simony, denounced married priests, and strenuously insisted on shaving. In 1080, for example, he sent an urgent letter to the ruler of Cagliari, a Sardinian port city, instructing him to require the clergy under his control to shear off their beards. Those who refused were to have their properties confiscated. In explaining his rule, Gregory claimed that he was enforcing the practice of the church “from its beginning.”13 This was pure fiction, of course. Shaving was an entirely new policy, but the pope was happy to rewrite history for a greater cause. quote:The new beard movement of the early 1500s was promoted by proud humanists and ambitious kings, but also by the troubles of popes. The case of Pope Julius’s battle beard has been noted, but it was Pope Clement VII’s penitential beard, instigated by his misfortunes, that had the most enduring impact. This effect was greatly amplified when a priest and scholar in Clement’s papal court, Pierio Valeriano, wrote a book promoting beards for the Catholic clergy. Clement would not have grown his beard, nor Valeriano written his book, were it not for the sack of Rome in 1527, another turning point in beard history. What a strange, fascinating story human history is. Also is this the same Charles V who was a cousin of Queen Mary Tudor? I've read bios of her and that poor woman had a loving awful life. The only family who treated her with any respect or feeling was her mother and her cousin Charles. But now...I dunnno. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jul 9, 2022 |
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Jul 9, 2022 18:56
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NikkolasKing posted:Under Charlemagne... I've been researching the life of royalty and nobility in those times recently for nerd reasons and honestly, they all had a poo poo time of it. Education back then was just constant violence dawn till dusk. And Mary and Elizabeth had it loving awful their whole lives. What a shitshow that period of English history was.
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Jul 9, 2022 19:07
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Not that it's changed much. The higher class of English public schools still primarily exists to beat the humanity out of the sons of the aristocracy so they can be properly inhumane governors, same as it was during the Empire when they'd end up in colonial posts treating the natives as subhuman savages.
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Jul 10, 2022 18:37
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I got beaten seven shades of rear end every day from dawn til dusk for ten years, why should my child
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Jul 10, 2022 20:15
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HopperUK posted:I've been researching the life of royalty and nobility in those times recently for nerd reasons and honestly, they all had a poo poo time of it. Education back then was just constant violence dawn till dusk. And Mary and Elizabeth had it loving awful their whole lives. What a shitshow that period of English history was. I'm sure Elizabeth had it rough too but I guess it's my contrarian nature which made me read more about Mary. Elizabeth is of course remembered as one of the most awesome and beloved English monarchs ever, while Marry is "Blood Mary." History is written by the victors and the Protestants won in England and therefore the US where I've lived my whole life. It is nice to see people still understand that aristocratic existence is just another form of abuse, though. In an unjust system, those at the top are still victims.
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Jul 10, 2022 23:57
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I had a Zoom meeting with the vocations director today for the religious community I’m interested in. It went very well. I’m meeting him again next week in person. Thanks for the prayers and well wishes.
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Jul 13, 2022 22:51
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Every single Tudor was a horrible piece of work. Sure all of them suffered but they could, at any point, have decided to stop. They even had the most ability to do so and people around them were still saying how poo poo things were. Having some measure of sympathy for them is understanable but, I feel, misplaced. They were the ones with power in this instance
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Jul 14, 2022 15:23
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Sympathy is for everyone
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Jul 14, 2022 15:26
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Gaius Marius posted:Sympathy is for everyone I didn't know Mick Jagger had an account here.
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Jul 14, 2022 16:48
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Worthleast posted:I didn't know Mick Jagger had an account here. Please allow me to introduce myself
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Jul 14, 2022 17:03
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NikkolasKing posted:It is nice to see people still understand that aristocratic existence is just another form of abuse, though. In an unjust system, those at the top are still victims. i mean sort of. in an unjust system where those at the top possess vast amounts of power including abilities to make sweeping changes to said system, i'm not sure "victim" is really the word.
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Jul 14, 2022 17:51
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Earwicker posted:i mean sort of. in an unjust system where those at the top possess vast amounts of power including abilities to make sweeping changes to said system, i'm not sure "victim" is really the word. But one human being is only ever one human being. There's a quote from ASOIAF I've never forgotten quote:Power is a curious thing, my lord. Perchance you have considered the riddle I posed you that day in the inn?" You can have all the crowns you want, all the titles and noble heritage, but if people don't actually care about any of that, it means nothing and you have no power. Even absolute tyrants like Hitler could not just do anything he wanted. For Mary's part, her Catholicism and devotion to it really undermined her rule by making her unpopular with most everyone in England at the time. And all her attempts to return England to a Catholic land clearly failed spectacularly so that power didn't do her any good. She changed nothing. And of course sex is an issue here, too. Women always have their own unique burdens and obstacles and that's as true of royal women as a woman of any class/station. The world isn't as simple as "some people are victims and other people are victimizers."
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Jul 14, 2022 22:27
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I'm not sure this is the thread that's gonna decide some people aren't worthy of compassion.
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Jul 14, 2022 22:38
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Earwicker posted:i mean sort of. in an unjust system where those at the top possess vast amounts of power including abilities to make sweeping changes to said system, i'm not sure "victim" is really the word. I can see the argument that they're victims of the system, too. Having absolute power transformed them into corrupt assholes. Had they not been royalty (or even aristocrats), they may have ended up as vastly different people. Being thoughtful and kind isn't really an option when you're the king (or queen), as the system ensured that you would be dead in short order.
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Jul 14, 2022 22:41
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HopperUK posted:I'm not sure this is the thread that's gonna decide some people aren't worthy of compassion. I'd say like the ceos of exxon-mobil and shell probably qualify
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Jul 14, 2022 22:49
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to be clear, i'm not saying anyone is unworthy of compassion or sympathy. not at all. obviously people from every level of society are to some degree "caught up" in these unjust systems. but what im saying is some people more than others are part of the power structure. and some people more than others perpetuate (with varying degrees of choice) unjust systems through the exercise of power. while the monarchs of earlier eras were certainly "caught" within these systems they also had a degree of automatically justified power (via the "divine right to rule") that is rare in today's world leaders.
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Jul 14, 2022 22:50
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HopperUK posted:I'm not sure this is the thread that's gonna decide some people aren't worthy of compassion. I mean compassion is great. The average person of the time period would have had similar lives, the only difference is that they would have had no power or ability to stop it because they were acting only on the awareness they have from below. The greater onus to change things should rest upon the ones with power. And if they are deserving of compassion it must be delivered alongside awareness of that fact. One can have compassion for Queen Ann being constantly pregnant and losing every child. But her governance still oversaw the expansion of the slave trade.
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Jul 14, 2022 22:52
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Josef bugman posted:Every single Tudor was a horrible piece of work. Sure all of them suffered but they could, at any point, have decided to stop. They even had the most ability to do so and people around them were still saying how poo poo things were. Having some measure of sympathy for them is understanable but, I feel, misplaced. They were the ones with power in this instance
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Jul 14, 2022 23:16
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Edward VI didn't really hang around long enough to be a horrible piece of work, dying at 15 and ruling under a regency all his life. I always forget Edward, that's fair.
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Jul 15, 2022 06:00
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I mean, I can actually square the competing notions that all people are flawed and may ultimately be born or corrupted into doing things of pure evil without being evil per se - and that the people who now destroy the planets ability to sustain human life have names and adresses and should probably be liquidated of all power and money as soon as possible. It's not that they are not also human, but they are playing at being gods of apocalypse and must be stopped at any cost.
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Jul 15, 2022 10:07
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I've been attending a Quaker meeting, it's very nice. It turns out, a change of architecture was one major thing I needed to be comfortable in a religious space again. Unprogrammed worship still takes some getting used to but it's a good challenge and a good break from the rest of the week.
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Jul 15, 2022 23:23
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How was the oatmeal
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Jul 15, 2022 23:45
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Gaius Marius posted:How was the oatmeal  It's a very old meeting so they aren't doing post-meeting coffee for now. Maybe I could bring some instant packets in a month or so.
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Jul 15, 2022 23:56
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Ohtori Akio posted:
My parish just started doing after Mass coffee and donuts again after a long hiatus.
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Jul 16, 2022 00:00
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Ohtori Akio posted:I've been attending a Quaker meeting, it's very nice. It turns out, a change of architecture was one major thing I needed to be comfortable in a religious space again. Welcome fellow Friend!
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Jul 16, 2022 17:09
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This may be silly, but I've been working on building a Lego Church for my kids. I remember this thread used to have bursts of just nothing but church architecture posts, so I'd thought I'd share my amateurish creation.     
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Jul 16, 2022 20:19
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That’s fantastic! I love it.
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Jul 16, 2022 20:32
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That is absolutely adorable and well done. How long do you give it until a LEGO plane crashes into it?
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Jul 16, 2022 20:42
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BattyKiara posted:Welcome fellow Friend! hello friend, looking forward to first day <------- knows the lingo
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Jul 16, 2022 23:44
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:This may be silly, but I've been working on building a Lego Church for my kids. I remember this thread used to have bursts of just nothing but church architecture posts, so I'd thought I'd share my amateurish creation. This is frickin *adorable*. Very well done!
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Jul 17, 2022 12:32
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Thanks for the kind words folks, I just hope the kids have fun with it.Arsenic Lupin posted:That is absolutely adorable and well done. How long do you give it until a LEGO plane crashes into it? Right now my son is obsessed with everything firefighter related, so that means any LEGO buildings are always on fire so the fire fighters can put it out.
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Jul 17, 2022 18:18
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Thanks for the kind words folks, I just hope the kids have fun with it. Ooh, you can play Notre Dame Cathedral!
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Jul 17, 2022 18:54
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A perfectly servicable chorccch! It has the importants: ministering to the incarcerated by stern elder ladies, a pirate-like organ deck, and a goth attendant 
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Jul 18, 2022 06:08
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I met with the Vocations Director today over dinner. It lasted almost an hour and a half. A lot of stuff came out, including my mental illness (and that it’s very well managed). Overall it went very well and he said he’d contact me soon about further meetings. God be praised.
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Jul 20, 2022 02:01
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God be praised indeed.
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Jul 20, 2022 03:26
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This is really my own ignorance showing, as I have barely been exposed to un-Protestant Christian practice at all. My preconceived notion of joining a religious community is that you kind of show up, ask to join, and alright sure as long as you follow the rules. Having e.g. mental illness would be a good reason to join, not a reason to be barred. Was this impression ever the case? Writing it out, it seems very impractical, but I guess I had just never heard very much about the modern process of joining a community. Are you interested to enlighten me?
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Jul 20, 2022 07:15
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It can very formal or informal but generally starts with just showing up.
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Jul 20, 2022 09:10
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Ohtori Akio posted:This is really my own ignorance showing, as I have barely been exposed to un-Protestant Christian practice at all. My preconceived notion of joining a religious community is that you kind of show up, ask to join, and alright sure as long as you follow the rules. Having e.g. mental illness would be a good reason to join, not a reason to be barred. So how one joins a religious order/community is slightly different for each community, but they are FAR more rigorous in admitting candidates than you thought. I'll give a summary, then tell a bit of my story (sorry old timers who know it all already) to put it all into context. Firstly, the reason mental illness can be a reason to reject a candidate is because when you join a religious community it's akin to joining a family. If you have a mental illness that's untreated or poorly managed, you could have trouble living in community. But back to how one joins. Usually the prospective candidate starts in prayer and introspection to help guide where they want to go. Do they have a monastic heart? If they are a man do they feel called to the priesthood? Often people have a spiritual director to help discern this as well. Once this preliminary work has been worked on the prospective candidate will start researching different orders/communities. If they see one they like, they may reach out to the vocations director. From there, depending on the type of community, they may have a number of meetings with the vocations director, some visits to their monastery or community house, and if everyone gets the sense there may be a "vocation" (from the Latin word for "call") they may apply to the community. If they got this far, the next step is collecting letters of recommendation, having a medical exam done, being interviewed by members of the community, and having a massive battery of psychological tests done. That's pretty average. Who decides to accept is different for each community, some have a council, others one guy. So I started by reaching out to the Jesuits. Their initial form asked about health concerns so I listed my bipolar diagnosis. I got a letter in that mail saying I was in no way suited for the Society because "people with your condition cannot live the Jesuit ideal of "availability." It was a letter so I couldn't ask what that even meant and plead my case. Also three days later my father died so that was a really bad week. Later I contacted the Dominicans, and when I met with the vocations director and when he asked about my health he straight up told me they wouldn't even consider someone with bipolar for the order, no matter how well treated because "what if you stop taking your meds." After that I visited a few monasteries but they didn't feel right. That was a few years ago. Last year I went to a monastery for a vocation visit and liked it, and the community seemed to like me. I asked to be considered for postulancy. I collected my letters, my baptism and confirmation certificates, my transcripts, and did a TON of psych tests. Unfortunately, the council of elders were split on their vote and I was rejected for the postulancy because, "his health is very good now, but if he has problems down the road can the community give him the care he would need." That turned out to be a blessing because I figured out I want to be a priest, and monks are meant to be fulfilled in their vocation without ordination. This new community I'm speaking to I'm still in the early stages. Does that make sense? Anything else you're curious about? Thirteen Orphans fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 23:13
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I mean, I kinda get it in a way, but 'We as as a religious order don't want to take any responsibility for the vulnerable' is a somewhat alarming position for them to take
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Jul 21, 2022 02:58
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