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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Can desantis beat most flat brained Dems? Yes. You assume they're going to fight instead of one just joining the ticket of the other.
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Jul 16, 2022 01:36
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Jaxyon posted:You assume they're going to fight instead of one just joining the ticket of the other. Jaxyon did you get a lobotomy to forget the trump administration? Trump literally got Mike pence in the ticket because Melania said "get him he has no amibition'
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Jul 16, 2022 01:37
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Can desantis beat most flat brained Dems? Yes. Doesn't matter. Republicans are going to vote for which ever one gets the nomination, plain and simple. And right now either of them I believe can beat Joe Biden, who is about as popular as garbage can juice right now and who no one likes. I think it's telling that even right now, the GOP is talking about two viable presidential candidates that they believe can win and whom they will 100% vote for (no matter what they say about Trump) while the democrats have a Joe Biden (and a Harris) that even their own party don't want to vote for and no idea or viable name at all who could possibly run in their place. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Clinton rumors actually turn out to have some credibility and she wound up in the running again. I really wouldn't.
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Jul 16, 2022 01:41
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If the Clinton rumors are true I'm going to buy Maltese citizenship because the countries over. Maybe I'll come back when the leftist TikTok Bonaparte's take california back
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Jul 16, 2022 01:46
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What about Newsom? Isn't he spending a load of money in Florida criticizing DeSantis? Not saying he is a good choice, mind you
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Jul 16, 2022 01:55
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You're all trying to look behind an event horizon. They're going to *do something* and then who knows what will happen to the GOP. Fuckin Starscream might take over, who can tell.
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Jul 16, 2022 02:16
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Handicapping 2024 pretty pointless right now, and not really a Jan 6 topic beyond the fact that the hearings will absolutely hurt Trump if he runs.
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Jul 16, 2022 02:38
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:If the Clinton rumors are true I'm going to buy Maltese citizenship because the countries over. There has been nothing even remotely credible that would lead anyone to believe those rumors are true though.
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Jul 16, 2022 02:47
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mdemone posted:You're all trying to look behind an event horizon. Starscream 2024: Hope is a lie! I dunno it could be a winning position.
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Jul 16, 2022 02:49
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I want to get through Nov 22 before I start speculating about Nov 24. However, over in the Freep thread some of them are already in on DeSantis is the smart Trump.
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Jul 16, 2022 02:50
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Forgive the potentially stupid question, but what is the actual point of the hearings? Who are they talking "to", and what are the potential outcomes? They're getting this stuff "on record" (congressional?), and then if they bring up enough wrong-doing, the Justice Department and/or an Attorney General can pursue charges of some kind? There's no judge or jury or anything here is there, so what is supposed to happen next?
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Jul 16, 2022 03:10
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Gros Tarla posted:There has been nothing even remotely credible that would lead anyone to believe those rumors are true though. Wasn't the closest thing to an actual source for it someone who worked for Clinton's campaign (in 2008, not even 2016) and had been working more in Republican circles since?
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Jul 16, 2022 03:13
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Forgive the potentially stupid question, but what is the actual point of the hearings? Who are they talking "to", and what are the potential outcomes? They're getting this stuff "on record" (congressional?), and then if they bring up enough wrong-doing, the Justice Department and/or an Attorney General can pursue charges of some kind? Honestly? Obviously we want to know exactly what happened, but mostly the purpose at this point is to get the country on board with the idea of criminally prosecuting the former president. That is one hell of a massive step to be taken, and we should normally always be extremely skeptical of the political motivations behind any criminal prosecution of a former president, without extraordinary and compelling evidence.
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Jul 16, 2022 03:15
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Forgive the potentially stupid question, but what is the actual point of the hearings? Who are they talking "to", and what are the potential outcomes? They're getting this stuff "on record" (congressional?), and then if they bring up enough wrong-doing, the Justice Department and/or an Attorney General can pursue charges of some kind? At the end of the day the point of public hearings are to inform the public and we’ve definitely learned new facts about Trump and associates’ involvement since the hearings began, which in turn shook new witnesses loose. There’s actual documentary/historical value in this exercise. Congressional Democrats also see a messaging opportunity to hurt Trump. Why wouldn’t they? They saw what nonstop Benghazi hearings did to Clinton, and ultimately, the 2016 election.
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Jul 16, 2022 03:16
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Killer robot posted:Wasn't the closest thing to an actual source for it someone who worked for Clinton's campaign (in 2008, not even 2016) and had been working more in Republican circles since? Not even Republican, it was multiple Newsmax writers. It's entirely trollbait.
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Jul 16, 2022 03:17
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Forgive the potentially stupid question, but what is the actual point of the hearings? Who are they talking "to", and what are the potential outcomes? They're getting this stuff "on record" (congressional?), and then if they bring up enough wrong-doing, the Justice Department and/or an Attorney General can pursue charges of some kind? A report, a book, or a documentary will get spun, ignored, and will be terminally unstudied. Prime time tv gets a lot more attention about the results they found: trump knowingly and purposefully attempted a coup. The committee is making sure this can't be buried as a side story of the 2020s. They're also setting up a situation where the DOJ kind of HAS to do something. We know the crime, we know the criminal, if they don't execute then laws are meaningless and the government goes to the nastiest people alive.
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Jul 16, 2022 03:20
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Hey an official subpoena for text messages by the secret service https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1548131666769506309
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Jul 16, 2022 03:30
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Beyond "you, the viewer" they're also talking to Mark Meadows, Banon, the Trump family and everyone else involved who hasn't cooperated yet. We all know what they did, especially now.
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Jul 16, 2022 03:34
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tldr. There are both political process outcomes and criminal prosecution to consider.Bucky Fullminster posted:Forgive the potentially stupid question, but what is the actual point of the hearings? Who are they talking "to", and what are the potential outcomes? They're getting this stuff "on record" (congressional?), and then if they bring up enough wrong-doing, the Justice Department and/or an Attorney General can pursue charges of some kind?  Arguably these hearings would not have been needed it the Senate had taken the second impeachment more seriously, but the House was somewhat restricted in evidence they could gather while the 45th President was still in office, simply due to the time constraints.The "normal" outcome of these hearings would be impeachment but there's no precedent for impeachment of a non-sitting President, and the Senate very loudly made the claim that civil/criminal charges were the right way to deal with things because they were too lazy, so here we are. The House committee may recommend charges, but the Department of Justice is the only avenue to those charges that has been mentioned. In terms of goals, the (first) impeachment process is designed to either remove an official from office, or prevent them from further serving in that office, or to send them a very strong message to stop misbehaving. In the case of the 45th President, the lesson wasn't learned; the second impeachment should have prevented holding any office ever. No serving official in their right mind should have said "well we gave this person an official sanction and warning, they continued for the next two years, got worse, and maybe committed federal crimes, so let's ignore that and just move on". At present, this is part of a "political process", so there are many political, not criminal, goals: Trump shouldn't even be permitted to be the President because "of this excessive dereliction of duty, this person was a failure in this office, abusive of their power". Half of the US Senate should be getting voted out because "your senators voted in favor of the President who did all this, look!, they had their chance to fix this with impeachment and were lazy, so stop voting for awful senators". Likewise US representatives because "your rep colluded with this, supported this, enabled this behavior, so stop voting for these awful reps". As much as everyone hates the Democrat messaging about voting (to fix Roe, the court, etc.), sadly the political mechanisms to prevent a recurrence of 1/6 are driven by voting because they depend on the legislative branch. There's also the criminal side. "Who is responsible for these deaths?" Criminal proceedings are charged to the highest culpable party, and often in this lowest-to-highest manner (the lower people squeal and deal). Suggestions have been that the DOJ is waiting because they're getting all this evidence for free, because it's yielding more witnesses (and probably there's some politics involved and the committee couldn't do its work if the DOJ had everyone in sealed depositions). Obviously the criminal outcomes include house arrest, recompense, prison, or more... and people get excited by the prospect of doling out punishment. (Even now I'm thinking, "geez how cool would it be if he got community service".)
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Jul 16, 2022 03:57
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:(Even now I'm thinking, "geez how cool would it be if he got community service".) I know that even if he got community service as a punishment, that his money would probably get him some kind of "easier" service, but I just love the mental image of Trump being forced to do hundreds of hours of litter collection. Imagine how much he'd seethe at having to do something so lowly. 
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Jul 16, 2022 06:10
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I believe the congressional subpoenas may have a different shape of access than DoJ would, in terms of both scope and speed.
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Jul 16, 2022 06:12
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Cool, thanks heaps all. So guess we just have to keep our fingers crossed the Department of Justice grow a spine and bring charges? And that the Democrats have the sense to say "Hey, all you America-Loving Patriots, you love America, right? Freedom and all that? Well these people literally and absolutely tried to overthrow it! They are actual traitors! It's treason, for real life!" Would love to see ol' Donny wiggle his way out of this jam. Is the Bannon audio the closest thing we have to a smoking gun here? There's no way out of that right - it was an absolutely pre-meditated piece of bullshit they were going to use to try an overturn an election, and there rest follows from there?
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Jul 16, 2022 06:29
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taiyoko posted:I know that even if he got community service as a punishment, that his money would probably get him some kind of "easier" service, but I just love the mental image of Trump being forced to do hundreds of hours of litter collection. Imagine how much he'd seethe at having to do something so lowly. Applebees. It was Robert Evans' idea, but I whole-heartedly support the idea that Republican politicians should be forced to work at just the shittiest possible chain restaurant and the public they've hosed over can line up and just be the worst customers. Every food service horror story, all day, every day with a line out the door and stretching to the horizon. It's not prison so I get to keep my moral stance about that, and it has a sense of ironic comeuppance. I wanna puke incredibly cheap margaritas all over Mitch McConnell and then leave a smiley face on the tip line of the check.
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Jul 16, 2022 06:30
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Cool, thanks heaps all. Have you watched the hearings at all? because yes that is literally the exact message of the hearings. Particularly anything since Hutchinson's testimony There's also a bunch amount of pretty serious hagiographizing going on of the conservatives who did the right thing and opposed Trump's take over. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jul 16, 2022 |
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Jul 16, 2022 06:47
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Herstory Begins Now posted:have you watched the hearings at all? because yes that is literally the exact message of the hearings I'm on the other side of the world but have seen chunks and have been following the gist, yes. I mean the message going out of the hearing, and into elections.
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Jul 16, 2022 06:50
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https://www.reuters.com/world/us/georgia-prosecutor-warns-republicans-trump-fake-electors-probe-report-says-2022-07-16/ Georgia prosecutor warns Republicans in Trump fake electors probe "July 15 (Reuters) - The prosecutor for Georgia's Fulton County has warned high-profile Republicans in that state they could be indicted for their role in efforts by ex-President Donald Trump and his supporters to overturn the result of the 2020 election, Yahoo News reported on Friday. District Attorney Fani Willis has written letters to people including Georgia Republican Party Chairman David Shafer and State Senators Burt Jones and Brandon Beach over their role in an alleged alternate electors scheme in that state, Yahoo reported, citing unnamed legal sources familiar with the matter." The whole fake electors scheme pretty much just relied on everyone else being dumber than they are. Which is just silly.
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Jul 16, 2022 08:22
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Bucky Fullminster posted:I'm on the other side of the world but have seen chunks and have been following the gist, yes. More or less afaict? A lot of dem enthusiasm atm is from Roe getting overturned, but people who care about one seem to care about the other. Tbh I've been paying more attention to conservative messaging and responses to the hearings because I think that's the bigger wildcard and probably is more important to 2022 and 2024 than what the dems will do (dems gonna dem). Or was the bigger wildcard, the hearings have been roundly more compelling than I think almost any conservatives expected
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Jul 16, 2022 08:28
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The January 6th hearings have made one thing clear: a large swath of Republicans want to memory-hole Trump like they did George W. Bush post-2008. The difference here is that there is a perhaps equal swath of Republicans who believe whenever Trump's not on screen, other characters should ask "Where's This is why I'm not a doomer with regards to the mid-terms - the Republican Party by-and-large can't decide how much of Trump the person they want. It's why Kevin McCarthy wants fellow Republicans to stop talking about him and focus on inflation for the election. Remember during the Cassidy Hutchinson testimony the Congressional Republicans Tweeted that gas was $5/gallon?* They don't want to deal with the fact the guy did crimes. HOWEVER, Trump is not like Bush post-presidency, because he can't fade into the ether. That's just not his style. The Democrats are in the odd position of having red (blue?) meat for an election cycle, and the more the committee shows happened on January 6th the harder it is for the American public to deny, deflect, or double-down. Hell, the Washington Examiner, one of the most Trumpy tabloids there is, had an op-ed that said "yeah, Trump's guilty". The literal Identity Crisis won't lead them to ruin, but it can dampen overall intraparty feelings. The election's in November. Who the gently caress knows what's going to happen between now and then?
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Jul 16, 2022 09:09
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Edward Mass posted:The election's in November. Who the gently caress knows what's going to happen between now and then? Just keeding! Maybe.
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Jul 16, 2022 10:21
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Edward Mass posted:The election's in November. Who the gently caress knows what's going to happen between now and then? Its been an absolute given article of faith in the media all year that the Democrats were going to be annihilated this year, and they have been extremely slow to adjust to abortion and 1/6. At best they are still at "well we all know the GOP is taking the house, but huh would you look at this weird poll? Probably an outlier". They haven't even adjusted back to "maybe we don't really know whats going to happen now"
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Jul 16, 2022 13:11
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:tldr. There are both political process outcomes and criminal prosecution to consider. I was very very young when those hearings were airing and all I remember about them was how much they pissed off my grandmother. She watched "her stories" as she called them and used to start loudly bitching when they were preempted by "another story about Nixon sittin on the toilet". So every time I heard about Nixon, in my mind I would picture him taking a poo poo.
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Jul 16, 2022 13:24
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Gros Tarla posted:There has been nothing even remotely credible that would lead anyone to believe those rumors are true though.
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Jul 16, 2022 13:37
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BiggerBoat posted:I was very very young when those hearings were airing and all I remember about them was how much they pissed off my grandmother. She watched "her stories" as she called them and used to start loudly bitching when they were preempted by "another story about Nixon sittin on the toilet". So every time I heard about Nixon, in my mind I would picture him taking a poo poo. Can’t wait for the hearing to reveal that Trump actually clogged those low flow toilets he bitched about.
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Jul 16, 2022 14:11
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OgNar posted:https://www.reuters.com/world/us/georgia-prosecutor-warns-republicans-trump-fake-electors-probe-report-says-2022-07-16/ It relied on becoming the people who enforce the law and saying what they did was legal, like most coups. It was also just done in the DUMBEST POSSIBLE WAY, failed, and targeted one out of about 160 positions needed to actually run a white glove coup. Thus the fall back plan of RUSH B.
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Jul 16, 2022 14:21
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Rigel posted:mostly the purpose at this point is to get the country on board with the idea of criminally prosecuting the former president. That is one hell of a massive step to be taken, Just thinking out loud here, but I think it needs to be acknowledged that NOT criminally prosecuting the former president is also a hell of a massive step to be taken. And arguably a far more dangerous one, since if you let it slide you're just opening the door to a dictatorship. It should be considered as an action itself, not just the lack of one.
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Jul 16, 2022 14:22
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I'll take "News That Should Shock No One" for $1000 Parroting Trump, GOP primary losers cast doubt on elections https://apnews.com/article/republican-primary-losers-claim-fraud-parroting-trump-7730988a009dfa0873e8133e19232562 quote:This idea has seeped deeply into this year’s Republican primaries, which have revealed a new political strategy among numerous candidates: running on a platform that denies President Donald Trump’s defeat two years ago. As some of those candidates lose their own races, they are reaching new frontiers in election denial by insisting that those primaries, too, were rigged. This kind of poo poo is going to increase and become the new norm
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Jul 16, 2022 14:48
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I lived in Karen Bass's district at the time of the 2020 election and the token poo poo-eating Republican who got 14% of the vote or whatever sent out a press release explaining Bass had cheated and hadn't really won and then he refused to concede. Yeah, that's right, the person who represents the most liberal district in the entire country and has won with 80-90% of the vote every election in the last 20 years, has been cheating the whole time. Los Angeles is actually ultra-conservative and no one noticed until now. Like, come the hell on. There's at least some kind of logic to looking at a race that was 51-49 and saying "okay, if someone tweaked the numbers a little bit, the result would change". It's not factually true, but it at least makes sense that if someone wanted to cheat, that's the place they would cheat. Which is why Trump's loudest and most persistent complaints where about GA, PA, MI, etc. But, like, Republicans don't need to cheat to win Wyoming and Democrats don't need to cheat to win Hawai'i. It also sort of defies observational reality, right? Like, you go to a military base town in a red state and you see the giant crosses and blue lives matter bumper stickers and gun billboards and Trump flags flying from pickups. And, like, love those people or hate them, you know what kind of town you're in. If you're a Trumpist is west Los Angeles, likewise you see that there was a million person woman's march in 2017 and massive, enormous post-George Floyd BLM protests and there are more "Still With Her" signs than Trump signs. You can't simultaneously insist that Portland is a fallen city run by anarchist muslim communist mobs and also that Portland is 80% pro-Trump and any Democrat who won cheated. So a lot of the local candidates making these complaints seem less like Trump-tier sour grapes and more like Fomenko New Chronology Hollow Earth nonsense. Sorry you got 8th place in a race of 9 rabid Trump supporters in Pine Bluff, Arkansas, bro, but you probably weren't the victim of a socialist conspiracy.
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Jul 16, 2022 15:19
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Tayter Swift posted:Beyond "you, the viewer" they're also talking to Mark Meadows, Banon, the Trump family and everyone else involved who hasn't cooperated yet. We all know what they did, especially now. There is some pretty well supported speculation that Meadows might be just about ready to flip. His stunt with Hutchinson has gotten him into obstruction waters and he’s apparently perjured himself multiple times in documents and testimony when compared to the latest evidence about him. Particularly Cipollone. Even if he doesn’t come clean to J06C the DoJ can start right in on him with his contradictory statements, assuming they follow up. My biggest worry is the DoJ OLC has poisoned the well with guidelines that essentially immunize Trump and his close advisors from prosecution, or even investigation (I have this thing, called article 2…), based off things they’ve done while in office. Which would explain why we’re only seeing subpoenas now from the fraudulent electors or the DoJ OIG investigation because they have endpoints that don’t start in the white house. That said, the appearance of witness tampering now that these people are all civilians is a pretty direct line to charges without any constitutional awkwardness and that may be the strongest federal cases at the top of the pyramid. It would be classic if DoJ thought they could not move forward and Trump shoots himself in the foot by trying to defend himself through lawyer’s he’s paid to pretend to represent his followers but actually are reporting to him (“Trump reads the transcripts”) and he would have walked but for the coverup.
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Jul 16, 2022 16:06
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BiggerBoat posted:I'll take "News That Should Shock No One" for $1000 It could backfire pretty badly. These loser arguments do not work in court, and they risk convincing their supporters that there's no point in voting in rigged elections, sort of like what happened in Georgia.
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Jul 16, 2022 16:08
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Lying about voter fraud will continue as a political sport until it becomes socially stigmatized. Probably the best way to do that isn’t to appeal to higher angels but just call them the babbies they are by way of adopting the Republican’s slogan from 2000: You lost. Get over it.
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Jul 16, 2022 16:11
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