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The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


both of my last two jobs called them "lunch n learns"

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Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


I miss the early days of covid where vendors were desperately trying to get any sales engagement at all after all spending flatlined, so they'd invite you to webinars and chuck in Deliveroo/Just Eat vouchers. Synology paid me a £25 beer gift card to learn all about hybrid file shares.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

The Fool posted:

both of my last two jobs called them "lunch n learns"

It seems "lunch n learn" has become the de-facto term where I work as well.

kalel
Jun 19, 2012

just realized that my previous job used lunch n learns but my current pm uses brown bag. weird

vanity slug
Jul 20, 2010

Brown bag lunch sounds like you're downing a bottle of vodka at the office

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Jeoh posted:

Brown bag lunch sounds like you're downing a bottle of vodka at the office

Just lol if you aren’t drinking a 40 of King Cobra out of a bag at morning standup

I didn’t realize brown bag had a racial history, so thanks for the comment

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Brown bag implies you are bringing your own lunch. Lunch and learn implies lunch will be provided, at least to me. I mean, lunch should always be provided for lunch meetings, but yeah. I guess maybe that's changing with remote work being the norm in our industry?

I think just lunch and learn, we'll provide lunch, or lunch and learn, bring your own works. I'm not sure I 100% agree that brown bag lunch is a term that needs to go away, as brown bags are often used for lunches and I think that is probably the stronger context. But it's honestly not something I've heard discussed, so I'd rather differ to others and be on the safe side.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Internet Explorer posted:

Brown bag implies you are bringing your own lunch. Lunch and learn implies lunch will be provided, at least to me. I mean, lunch should always be provided for lunch meetings, but yeah. I guess maybe that's changing with remote work being the norm in our industry?

I think just lunch and learn, we'll provide lunch, or lunch and learn, bring your own works. I'm not sure I 100% agree that brown bag lunch is a term that needs to go away, as brown bags are often used for lunches and I think that is probably the stronger context. But it's honestly not something I've heard discussed, so I'd rather differ to others and be on the safe side.

My first thought was exactly the same as yours but agrikk's post drove me to Google and apparently this was a thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Paper_Bag_Test. Which, as with most things in American history, was way more horrible than I expected.

As a white dude I personally don't give one single gently caress if it's called a brown bag or a lunch and learn so if there are people actually being harmed by the brown bag term I'm cool with changing for their sake.

Docjowles fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Jul 17, 2022

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





I'm very familiar with the brown bag test. But we still call them brown bags. I dunno. I'm glad to be having this discussion.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Internet Explorer posted:

I'm very familiar with the brown bag test. But we still call them brown bags. I dunno. I'm glad to be having this discussion.

My feeling is it costs nothing to swap to a term that has no hurtful connotations for anybody. So even if you feel like the number of people who would notice or care is low, why not.

The industry is swapping from blacklist to denylist etc, this is part of that

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





I agree, and that's what I meant by this -

quote:

But it's honestly not something I've heard discussed, so I'd rather differ to others and be on the safe side.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

I can't just react to a post on this old dumb forum so

:respek:

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

Agrikk posted:

At the risk of starting something unhealthy:

Can we use lunchtime learnings instead of brown bag? Micro aggressions are a thing and I like to do my part to minimize them.

To avoid a derail, I’d be happy to talk more over PMs if you want.

Agree micro aggressions are a thing but it’s sure hard to see how this is one of them.

I think lunch and learn is a better term simply by being less confusing if you’ve never heard the term brown bag for learning g during lunch at work.

It’s really hard to see how the phrase brown bag as it applies to lunchtime learnings could have racial connotations even with the knowledge of a brown bag test apparently existing.

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Jul 17, 2022

kalel
Jun 19, 2012

Docjowles posted:

I can't just react to a post on this old dumb forum so

:respek:

what an odd statement. that's the nature of a forum. a post invites posts which invite posts, ipso facto. if that doesn't work for you, start a diary

kalel
Jun 19, 2012

I'm in the process of learning how to set up an EKS cluster for some microservices which need to process requests from the internet. I was considering using a Fargate profile for the workload, but it would require me to set up a NAT gateway to connect the private-subnet-only Fargate pods to public subnets. My question is, is there any appreciable advantage to using Fargate pods over a node group with EC2s? My impression is that it seems to be more setup and most cost for little gain

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


kalel posted:

what an odd statement. that's the nature of a forum. a post invites posts which invite posts, ipso facto. if that doesn't work for you, start a diary

They mean that you can't just smash a "like" button

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

Thanks Ants posted:

They mean that you can't just smash a "like" button

Thanks I also didnt get it

also thank god we dont have a like button. We have :10bux: accountability and a population thats mostly between 25 and 45. Buy civility and Nissan GTRs since 1999!

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost

kalel posted:

I'm in the process of learning how to set up an EKS cluster for some microservices which need to process requests from the internet. I was considering using a Fargate profile for the workload, but it would require me to set up a NAT gateway to connect the private-subnet-only Fargate pods to public subnets. My question is, is there any appreciable advantage to using Fargate pods over a node group with EC2s? My impression is that it seems to be more setup and most cost for little gain
EC2 instances you maintain vs Fargate are AWS-managed EC2 instances effectively. If you're Bad At Managing EC2 then Fargate is probably a decent cost benefit in terms of risk (especially if you're trying to meet compliance which is easiest to delegate to your cloud provider that's got better compliance levels than yourself). Fargate based pods are not cheap at all unless you look at the operational costs of managing EC2 instances like patching, monitoring, etc. If that's easy peasy for your organization Fargate is silly to use. For everyone else I'd recommend Fargate if and only if your organization lacks decent sysadmins that understand and can automate all the patching and compliance concerns. And if your organization is so cost-sensitive that the overhead of Fargate vs EC2 is a big deal your org falls into one of two camps - absolutely huge scale or severely underbudgeted in capex and overweight on existing labor costs (read: lots of graybeards that spend too much time managing instances). I view AWS services as having products that fit almost every possible technical debt one can incur in a software organization, so they're monetizing technical debt of global software organizations, which is an excellent place to be given it grows exponentially and the companies that don't survive you still manage to make money off of and move on without any of the horrible problems of actually working at said companies. Almost every service that AWS has at scale becomes too expensive for large companies until eventually you're building your own drat datacenters and making AWS competitors, at which point I'm laughing because to get to that point you probably paid Amazon at least $1 - $4 billion by then and the cost to run hyperscaler datacenters is just plain silly and you're now competing against the hyperscalers for limited resources like land and lobbyists that have far bigger pockets than you probably even if you're freakin' Goldman Sachs or Halliburton.

12 rats tied together
Sep 7, 2006

CarForumPoster posted:

It’s really hard to see how the phrase brown bag as it applies to lunchtime learnings could have racial connotations even with the knowledge of a brown bag test apparently existing.

It would be more of a classism thing than a racism thing, IMO.

kalel posted:

I'm in the process of learning how to set up an EKS cluster for some microservices which need to process requests from the internet. I was considering using a Fargate profile for the workload, but it would require me to set up a NAT gateway to connect the private-subnet-only Fargate pods to public subnets. My question is, is there any appreciable advantage to using Fargate pods over a node group with EC2s? My impression is that it seems to be more setup and most cost for little gain

You're correct, if you're going to manage the networking you might as well use an ec2 nodegroup instead of a fargate profile for this use case. The gain appears later when you have more complicated needs: one thing people use k8s for is a junk drawer for web apps, but it's only one of my valid use cases, it's a container "scheduler" for a reason after all :).

If you're doing fancier stuff on it than mapping tcp 443 to tcp 8000, you might find that the extra flexibility with fargate (and fargate spot) is worth the extra setup cost. Maybe. It's a case by case thing.

kalel
Jun 19, 2012

Thanks Ants posted:

They mean that you can't just smash a "like" button

oh I'm an idiot



thanks y'all. compliance is a subject I want to gain more experience with, so it would behoove me to set up EC2s as a learning exercise. plus I'm intending to use the nginx ingress controller which requires a managed node group anyway

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

CarForumPoster posted:

It’s really hard to see how the phrase brown bag as it applies to lunchtime learnings could have racial connotations even with the knowledge of a brown bag test apparently existing.

I get it. Like “how big of a deal is this, anyways?” and “is this really a thing?”

My belief is that it takes next to no effort to change from using ‘brown bag’ to “lunch n’ learn” and in doing so makes people aware of the micro aggression concept and maybe makes the world a tiny bit friendlier.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost
There's enough bad poo poo in this world and in our hellworld jobs as things keep declining in developed countries (meanwhile if you go to developing / emerging markets people are quite optimistic and have objectively solid reasons for feeling that way with their lived experiences) that the least I can do as a professional is to try to accommodate as many of my colleagues current and future as I can possibly stomach and then some. Just give a poo poo about people's feelings maybe and you'll be better than baseline for engineers IME.

kalel posted:

compliance is a subject I want to gain more experience with, so it would behoove me to set up EC2s as a learning exercise.
Not really something I recommend for anyone unless they want to have an easier time falling asleep at night. There's not a lot of people that will present these compliance topics in a layman, plainspoken way (some folks cynically have a point that it seems like more ceremony to justify the pay for these specialists) so you'll have to look through documents and laws much more dry than the Intel x86 instruction reference manual while being oriented mostly toward readers that are accountants and lawyers, not engineers. And I'm someone that read through multiple ISA docs and the Redhat Linux 1 paper book docs for goddamn fun as a teenager. It reminds me of trying to read math papers without the notational shortcuts that make them faster to parse. The best I think I could do for comprehension of compliance without going to law school myself would be to go through topics like HIPAA, SOC2, ISO 9000, FIPS 140-2 / 140-3, Dodd-Frank, SOX, PCI DSS of different levels, etc. like a Lawtuber would and those folks are brain damaged in their own way from the corruption of law school. For example, the exact lines that people tend to cite from SOX that say that developers shouldn't have access to prod is a super broad interpretation of the SOX lines regarding "separation of roles" and usually done by the most paranoid of lawyers, namely the Fortune 100 outside tech companies and perhaps finance, both of whom are obviously not known for being the most straightforward compliant of industries across the world. The truth is "whatever your auditor wants to see" is what you need to do, no different than "whatever SCOTUS interprets the Constitution to be even if completely batshit crazy or misconstrued" not whatever the law actually is intended to be or what even I as someone experienced with compliance thinks it means - welcome to regulatory hell and where business execs might have a point about overregulation (not throwing out the baby for the bathwater like most seem to want, granted). None of my experience with this stuff has made me a better engineer per-se but it sure has kept others from suffering the horrors of more and more meetings after I make a couple PRs and justify promotions with "I saved the team from approximately 200 total hours of work and opportunity loss of 3-4 months." If I can keep some poor sap from having to deal with the crap I had to deal with I'll die happily because there's enough suffering in our world that we need no help in propagating it.

But seriously, compliance is a very dry area of work that can sap one's will to even bother with technology. Take it from my former manager that got an MBA hoping to do compliance work to further his career as an engineer into more enterprisey stuff - it's theatrical performances all the way down. Just remember that auditability matters, don't use weak and crappy outdated cryptographic algos, and being able to sit in a courtroom and recount what happened in your environment with a ton of confidence in its accuracy and defensibility for those who entrust a lot of privileges in your judgment are sound and selfless.

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$

Corey Quinn's company just posted an opening for a cloud economist. I am definitely not qualified and I'm also applying.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


along those lines, I got rejected by honeycomb.io last week

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$

Oh drat, good for you. They're probably a great place to work.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


maybe re-read my post :D

Trapick
Apr 17, 2006

Hey still good for you for applying

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$

Yeah, no, I read your post. Good for you for not rejecting yourself on their behalf. Make them do it.

I have a *very* hard time believing Duckbill would hire me, let alone get me past the resume screening stage. But if they're going to say no, I'm not going to do it for them.

Happiness Commando fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jul 19, 2022

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Ah, cool thanks

honeycomb is definitely on my shortlist of places I think would be good to work for, I will likely take another shot in the future

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

I feel like every few months some smart person I follow on Twitter starts working at Honeycomb. Starting, obviously, with Charity. Certainly seems like a good place to be associated with.

whats for dinner
Sep 25, 2006

IT TURN OUT METAL FOR DINNER!

I always get really excited when Honeycomb announce job openings but they're still US/Canada only for their tech roles so I don't even get past the recruiter screen :smith:

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$

Happiness Commando posted:

Corey Quinn's company just posted an opening for a cloud economist. I am definitely not qualified and I'm also applying.

One of the things that I entered into the application form was that Duckbill prioritizes caring about people and having no oncall requirements. And then LOL got woken up at midnight when I got paged for something that was complete BS

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Punished for dreaming of a better life

olives black
Nov 24, 2017


LENIN.
STILL.
WON'T.
FUCK.
ME.

Docjowles posted:

My feeling is it costs nothing to swap to a term that has no hurtful connotations for anybody. So even if you feel like the number of people who would notice or care is low, why not.

The industry is swapping from blacklist to denylist etc, this is part of that

Should have been blocklist. Same number of syllables, more fun to say :colbert:

also the last 10-20% of the AWS Partner Accreditation course made me want to :suicide:. Put sales poo poo in another goddamn course kthnx

olives black fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jul 21, 2022

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$

Duckbill rejected me very directly and kindly. Then I asked for feedback and got some, again, direct and kind and well targeted. If I'm still in the workforce in 10 years, I might try again.

Woof Blitzer
Dec 29, 2012

[-]
I have a unique issue that I am trying to come up with a solution for. Unbeknownst to me (until fairly recently), the previous engineers made the very wise decision to treat S3 like a filesystem and install S3FS on production FTP servers. This has caused insanely annoying issues, and conveniently those who implemented this are now retired. I have firsthand witnessed horrors such as compiling and installing S3FS from source (and not updating it for months (years?)), zipping/unzipping directly on S3, etc. I wish to move away from this piece of poo poo asap. I am thinking of S3 File Gateway as a starting point. Does this sound appropriate?

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


S3 File Gateway would work, if you just need to copy files out of S3 and to a volume then rclone will also do the job.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

The siren song of s3fs is loving irresistible to people working with AWS early on. Especially ops people. It’s like the first stop on the “No seriously the cloud is not the place to just rebuild all your lovely patterns from the data center” journey. I’ve had to push back on that a lot as a component of a design.

If you’re looking for a quick replacement would AWS Transfer Families work for you? It’s basically a managed service with SFTP on the front end and S3 on the backend. It’s kind of expensive but you also aren’t supporting an abandoned rube goldberg machine anymore which has value.

https://docs.aws.amazon.com/transfer/latest/userguide/create-server-sftp.html

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
I work on IoT devices, and we have a system developed a few years ago where we upload recordings to AWS, process the recordings on upload, and store the recording characteristics. Right now, this processing happens in an AWS Lambda running Python. This part of the system has been growing and growing, and occasionally, very rarely, run to the point where we just don't have the Lambda resources to handle some process. But, the main issue right now is that we use SciPy, and at the time we did our development AWS had a default lambda layer with SciPy. It looks like they've stopped updating that, so we're stuck with an old version of SciPy running on Python 3.7.

It seems like we should just make our own Lambda container image for this running whatever Python and SciPy/other libraries we want, as discussed here. is that a good solution? It seems like a bit off the beaten path for Lambdas so I'm worried support won't be great. I could run it on Fargate, but it seems like that might end up being a larger architectural change for the system, especially since our lambdas are not involved that often.

I could try building or buying our own SciPy lambda layer, but given how we use this I worry that layer size will become an issue some time soon.

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CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

StumblyWumbly posted:

I work on IoT devices, and we have a system developed a few years ago where we upload recordings to AWS, process the recordings on upload, and store the recording characteristics. Right now, this processing happens in an AWS Lambda running Python. This part of the system has been growing and growing, and occasionally, very rarely, run to the point where we just don't have the Lambda resources to handle some process. But, the main issue right now is that we use SciPy, and at the time we did our development AWS had a default lambda layer with SciPy. It looks like they've stopped updating that, so we're stuck with an old version of SciPy running on Python 3.7.

It seems like we should just make our own Lambda container image for this running whatever Python and SciPy/other libraries we want, as discussed here. is that a good solution? It seems like a bit off the beaten path for Lambdas so I'm worried support won't be great. I could run it on Fargate, but it seems like that might end up being a larger architectural change for the system, especially since our lambdas are not involved that often.

I could try building or buying our own SciPy lambda layer, but given how we use this I worry that layer size will become an issue some time soon.

You can deploy a docker container up to 10GB extremely easily using the SAM CLI. Very fast to set up. If you've got some existing configuration stuff for example extra secure gateways or EFS mounts, those will go in the template.yaml. You might need to do some googling to understand how to implement some current config stuff, but it's pretty easy.

This was a huge issue in 2018 that has basically been completely solved. FYI you can have more than 512MB in the /tmp directory now too and more memory (which also grants you more vCPU cores).

For example I have a ~5GB container that processes video with ffmpeg as well as runs selenium and chrome for webscraping. It has 3GB of memory and routinely writes files that might be a few hundred MBs.

Got another that has a full fastai install (pandas, scipy, pytorch and scikit-learn IIRC...multiple GB of dependencies.)

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jul 26, 2022

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