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Jerusalem posted:Basically, Danielle owns, and deserves better, is what I'm saying Danielle does own, but the lesson of the 'Nixon's ladies' storyline (not just the episode) was that being an astronaut means dealing with other people's cowboy bullshit all the freaking time. The story of this entire season is predicated on NASA (and the Soviets) going along with dangerous cowboy bullshit: Big Love goes on live tee-vee to announce that his ship is going to Mars 2 years ahead of you, neener neener, and the consummate professionals running NASA/the US respond by pushing everything up 2 years, gently caress the consequences. Bill even tells them this is a really bad idea! So Danielle has to keep improvising, but she's still explicitly a part of the cowboy bullshit rodeo the whole way, since that is their entire mission! And we get glimpses of it when she literally races the Soviet commander for the first step on Martian ground. In a vacuum (  ) Danielle would've been great running a well-planned NASA science mission to Mars, sure, but that didn't really end up happening. It's the saying about wrestling pigs, except I suppose in this case Danielle was shoved into the pen by Margo and the US government. And she didn't back down because she does have some of that cowboy mentality too  That's a good point about Ed and the Soviets, though. But given Ed's general ornery bull-headedness, I guess we could chalk this up to Ed having a fairly large chip on his shoulder towards NASA, and he doesn't care about corporate non-sense that much now that he's actually on Mars? He does roll his eyes at the NDA stuff, at least.
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Jul 16, 2022 16:53
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So is Kelly joining the water mission as: “Stowaway” that Ed arranges Take your daughter to work day Paid consultant of Helios Helios gets a bidding war going and Margot uses her 75 billion to push the Russians out
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Jul 16, 2022 17:15
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Jerusalem posted:Danielle is legitimately the only competent person on Mars and one of like 3 actually competent people in the show (Aleida and Bill are the other two, Will's alright maybe, maybe) Wayne's competent... at goo balls
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Jul 16, 2022 17:16
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teacup posted:Literally anyone thinking this is floating DADT as some sort of west wing / centrist compromise wonder just... stop watching TV. Except all this show does is praise centrist policies. I have to assume it is written by enlightened centrists. Look at all the "progressive" policies that have happened in the show. They are progressive for the time, but accepted norms for modern centrists. We haven't seen them push the bounds of what a mainstream Democrat would accept today. The Republican president is a secret gay woman, the ultimate compromise acceptable by modern centrists. Literally everything in this show is "look at how great 2022 centrism is." They probably put that swelling music in because they were patting themselves on the back for being so centrist that they reinvented don't ask don't tell, the most enlightened centrist policy of the 90s.
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Jul 16, 2022 17:17
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CMYK BLYAT! posted:Wayne's competent... at goo balls Wayne is a better TV therapist than most roles that are actually supposed to be therapists.
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Jul 16, 2022 17:42
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Cojawfee posted:Except all this show does is praise centrist policies. I have to assume it is written by enlightened centrists. Look at all the "progressive" policies that have happened in the show. They are progressive for the time, but accepted norms for modern centrists. We haven't seen them push the bounds of what a mainstream Democrat would accept today. The Republican president is a secret gay woman, the ultimate compromise acceptable by modern centrists. Literally everything in this show is "look at how great 2022 centrism is." They probably put that swelling music in because they were patting themselves on the back for being so centrist that they reinvented don't ask don't tell, the most enlightened centrist policy of the 90s. ehhh, I'm gonna give them the benefit of a doubt that we eventually get to fully automated luxury gay space communism for all they're going for some level of believability so the fact that they have pushed it towards the left but not all the way already is understandable we'll see where it goes over the next couple seasons
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Jul 16, 2022 18:01
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Look if that’s as far as they go when they reach 2050 and are exploring the stars I’ll owe you a coke.
DamnGlitch fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jul 16, 2022 |
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Jul 16, 2022 20:14
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BetterLekNextTime posted:So is Kelly joining the water mission as: I missed anything about her joining. I thought Ed was just promising to sneak samples so she can study them at the US base?
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Jul 17, 2022 01:06
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Bugblatter posted:I missed anything about her joining. I thought Ed was just promising to sneak samples so she can study them at the US base? I also interpreted the scene as her asking to join the Russian-Helios-trip, but you're right, she just says she "needs to see those samples" and that she "needs to be a part of this", and Ed says he'll see what he can do. Although she did express concern earlier in the conversation that the Soviets + Ed/Helios would kill any potential life in the liquid water they'll be excavating, and her getting the samples after the fact won't be that helpful, at least from a conservationist point of view. I guess we'll find out in a week 
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Jul 17, 2022 01:42
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Ed's gonna come back and explain that they did find life, and that he got very excited about bringing her samples, but then he found out one of the Russians found the first sample 3 seconds before him, at which point Ed lost all interest because he wasn't going to be the first anymore, and just dumped his samples in the trash.
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Jul 17, 2022 01:59
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Jerusalem posted:To be fair, if Helios hadn't been nearby she wouldn't have felt the pressure to push for the surface when the dust started clearing at the last second, and just gone around for another orbit. If she hadn't had the Soviets onboard too (and lost two of her own crew in the process of saving them, which again only happened because Helios hosed everything up) then the Habitation Pods would have been set up with the right amount of food/water and space for the original complement. Overall Danielle is great, but attempting the landing when she did was absolutely 100% the wrong decision. Ed could take the chance because it was a smaller craft with just his and Danny's life on the line, and they also had full abort capability for if conditions ended up not clearing. Danielle put the entire mission on the line and very nearly killed them all.
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Jul 17, 2022 02:13
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When the episode started and we learned that the ship was damaged and not leaving I had this thought of: what if the Helios crew just said: nah. Nope, we aren't letting you leave with us. Do something about it. It would a petty, terrible thing but it just made me wonder. Same thing for the earlier season rescue of the Russian crew, which they kind of did. Also, how the hell are they planning on getting up to the Helios? It didn't land. 2x at a time over like, 8 trips? Also, the food and water shortages. You can't just move the food and water with you? Instead, everyone is going on half rations?
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Jul 17, 2022 02:32
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Jerusalem posted:Ed's gonna come back and explain that they did find life, and that he got very excited about bringing her samples, but then he found out one of the Russians found the first sample 3 seconds before him, at which point Ed lost all interest because he wasn't going to be the first anymore, and just dumped his samples in the trash. This, or the Russians immediately dump bleach into the borehole to kill any life that might be in there.
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Jul 17, 2022 02:47
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Cojawfee posted:This, or the Russians immediately dump bleach into the borehole to kill any life that might be in there. ed will do this after the russians find life quicker. first xenogenocide in human history, won't be the last
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Jul 17, 2022 02:51
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ShowTime posted:When the episode started and we learned that the ship was damaged and not leaving I had this thought of: what if the Helios crew just said: nah. Nope, we aren't letting you leave with us. Do something about it. It would a petty, terrible thing but it just made me wonder. Same thing for the earlier season rescue of the Russian crew, which they kind of did. Also, how the hell are they planning on getting up to the Helios? It didn't land. 2x at a time over like, 8 trips? They are feeding and watering 2 more people which is a big strain. And yeah, they can go up and down as many times as they like since i think Helios craft runs on methane they can mine in mars.
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Jul 17, 2022 03:40
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But the food is there. They didn't lose any food/water during their entry. So the Helios crew landed with all their food/water, so did NASA. I think they are combined at a +2 crew. Doesn't seem like enough to need to ration food and water that heavily. Take the food/water off the sojourner, bring to the Helios camp. It's also strange they are now all living at the Helios camp when only the Sojourner thrusters were damaged. They could operate out of the Sojourner fine, just not leave on it. I guess for ease, having all the samples on the ship leaving is convenient.
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Jul 17, 2022 03:52
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ShowTime posted:But the food is there. They didn't lose any food/water during their entry. So the Helios crew landed with all their food/water, so did NASA. I think they are combined at a +2 crew. Doesn't seem like enough to need to ration food and water that heavily.
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Jul 17, 2022 03:56
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all the russian's food and water is currently radioactive and presumably either hit mars at 69,000 kph or sailed millions of miles away depending on their heading at the time of the oopsie
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Jul 17, 2022 04:06
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I was writing up a big post wondering why they had brought so little water that they had to ration so badly, but then I checked the episode again. One of the hab modules got damaged when landing apparently? Danielle says "since we lost some of our presupply in the damaged module". I don't know if that's referring to the ship being damaged, or if that means one of the hab modules was also damaged when they all landed.
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Jul 17, 2022 04:33
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bawfuls posted:They're not living at the Helios camp, they're living at the NASA habs that were sent separately to a location nearby to where Sojourner landed. Ohhhh, I thought that was the Helios camp, not NASA. Got it. I assumed Sojourner landed to just live out of the ship. Why doesn't Helios have a camp? Were they just gonna go to Mars, land and chill in orbit? tokin opposition posted:all the russian's food and water is currently radioactive and presumably either hit mars at 69,000 kph or sailed millions of miles away depending on their heading at the time of the oopsie Yes, but they all went there with the plan to survive nearby, with all the rations they needed + extra for a prolonged event. +2 to a combined two crew inventory shouldn't affect things. Helios had food for their crew. Sojourner had food for their crew. Russia lost all theirs obviously, but overall, it's still just Helios + Sojourner +2. There is no way that should affect them so much that the need to cut water rations that heavily.
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Jul 17, 2022 04:38
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Cojawfee posted:I was writing up a big post wondering why they had brought so little water that they had to ration so badly, but then I checked the episode again. One of the hab modules got damaged when landing apparently? Danielle says "since we lost some of our presupply in the damaged module". I don't know if that's referring to the ship being damaged, or if that means one of the hab modules was also damaged when they all landed. Oh maybe, and that would explain things. I assumed it was damage to the craft that prevented it from leaving, not that.
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Jul 17, 2022 04:39
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ShowTime posted:Ohhhh, I thought that was the Helios camp, not NASA. Got it. I assumed Sojourner landed to just live out of the ship. Why doesn't Helios have a camp? Were they just gonna go to Mars, land and chill in orbit? Helios camp facilities are thier big rovers, like a Mars RV.
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Jul 17, 2022 05:02
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I'm not sure why Sojourner needed to land at all instead of using a lander, given how all the habitat modules were dropped ahead of their arrival.
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Jul 17, 2022 07:02
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Because space shuttles are stupid and so is anyone that uses one
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Jul 17, 2022 07:14
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If I had a genie my 14th wish would be that we did rocketry with the engineering principles of soyuz with the beta nerdery of modern dork NASA and the budget of all militaries on earth combined
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Jul 17, 2022 07:16
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tokin opposition posted:Because space shuttles are stupid and so is anyone that uses one It's kind of frustrating how they've gone to the "Russians are reckless and unsafe!" well multiple times when, y'know, 40% of the space shuttles blew up.
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Jul 17, 2022 09:50
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Senor Tron posted:Overall Danielle is great, but attempting the landing when she did was absolutely 100% the wrong decision. Ed could take the chance because it was a smaller craft with just his and Danny's life on the line, and they also had full abort capability for if conditions ended up not clearing. NASA blew it when they reneged on missile payloads after that whole Buran debacle. Shoulda just atomized the Helios ship when they declined to help the Russians.
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Jul 17, 2022 10:37
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Senor Tron posted:Overall Danielle is great, but attempting the landing when she did was absolutely 100% the wrong decision. Ed could take the chance because it was a smaller craft with just his and Danny's life on the line, and they also had full abort capability for if conditions ended up not clearing. Yeah, I'm getting really conflicting messages from the writers here. She is consistently portrayed as the most adult and responsible person in the room, but then just goes ahead and does probably the most reckless and stupid decision we have seen yet on this show just for some bragging rights for NASA. Like, Ed took a good look at Danny and decided that it's not worth it. Danielle took a good look at her crew and went full on "Valhalla awaits!" 
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Jul 17, 2022 10:49
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GABA ghoul posted:Yeah, I'm getting really conflicting messages from the writers here. She is consistently portrayed as the most adult and responsible person in the room, but then just goes ahead and does probably the most reckless and stupid decision we have seen yet on this show just for some bragging rights for NASA. Like, Ed took a good look at Danny and decided that it's not worth it. Danielle took a good look at her crew and went full on "Valhalla awaits!" I think it's understandable. Danielle is a careful, capable leader, but she's under massive pressure from a. the Russians yelling at her, b. the US to beat Helios to Mars, and c. her own "mistake" of injuring herself on the moon, for which she was widely mocked as incompetent last season. There's also the personal aspect of sticking it to a man who said that she only got where she did due to affirmative action, which frankly got brushed under the carpet way too quickly for them to be chummy again. She's not Ed reckless, but she's human.
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Jul 17, 2022 11:01
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Just made the connection that Molly is the same actress that played Penny on Holy poo poo
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Jul 17, 2022 11:23
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and my mind is a bit blown.
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Just made the connection that Molly is the same actress that played Penny on 
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Jul 17, 2022 12:27
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Just made the connection that Molly is the same actress that played Penny on What the fuccccck!?!? 
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Jul 17, 2022 14:45
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I totally didn't clue in until season 3 she was also Penny....
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Jul 17, 2022 14:55
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I would've never recognized Penny but for someone pointing it out on twitter.GABA ghoul posted:Yeah, I'm getting really conflicting messages from the writers here. She is consistently portrayed as the most adult and responsible person in the room, but then just goes ahead and does probably the most reckless and stupid decision we have seen yet on this show just for some bragging rights for NASA. Like, Ed took a good look at Danny and decided that it's not worth it. Danielle took a good look at her crew and went full on "Valhalla awaits!" I see what you mean, but I think she wanted to be first just as much as Ed, and was lucky/smart enough not to have an astronaut son to nepotise on to her crew. Also I can totally believe the most responsible adult astronaut in a given NASA room is still a yeehaw cowgirl.
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Jul 17, 2022 15:03
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Maybe the message is that you can identify the Myers-Briggs character template that you think a person fits into and assign them a role based on your careful assessment of their strengths and tendencies, but then when push comes to shove what they're actually going to do is anybody's fuckin guess because people are not baseball cards Ray Dalio
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Jul 17, 2022 15:17
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tokin opposition posted:all the russian's food and water is currently radioactive and presumably either hit mars at 69,000 kph or sailed millions of miles away depending on their heading at the time of the oopsie Point of order: exposure to radiation does not equal radioactive contamination, unless it was a massive neutron flux that would have killed the crew instantly. If they had time to transfer all the fuel, they might have had time to move some other consumables, as well.
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Jul 17, 2022 16:53
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Data Graham posted:Maybe the message is that you can identify the Myers-Briggs character template that you think a person fits into and assign them a role based on your careful assessment of their strengths and tendencies, but then when push comes to shove what they're actually going to do is anybody's fuckin guess because people are not baseball cards Ray Dalio Anyway this was a joke but I think I mean it actually. I'm sure someone has spelled this out already but because I'm lazy: The season arc's whole setup was Margo's/Molly's choice of captain between cowboy Ed and by-the-book Danielle, and Helios and the Soviet inflight accident (in part, they serve other narrative purposes too of course) are contrivances that allow the show to pit Ed and Danielle against each other head-to-head to see their respective leadership styles. As it turns out, there's a wild card in each of their cases: Ed's surrogate-father protectiveness toward Danny, and Danielle still being stung by Ed's racist comment (and probably some resentment over being chosen because of her predictability). And the result is that each of them behaves precisely opposite to how all the NASA character analysis had said they would: Ed picks the safe option though it means giving up glory, and Danielle risks her whole crew and mission and nearly blows it all up because of pride. I think one of the show's big strengths is that despite this being the main narrative through-line of the season so far, all the characters involved are also serving other plots as well — Ed and Helios and Kelly and Danny and Karen, Danielle and Kelly and the cosmonauts, etc. and they all interrelate and flow from each other without it all (yet) bursting apart at the seams.
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Jul 17, 2022 19:00
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For those of you missing Gordo this season you really owe it to yourself to catch Patriot if you haven't yet. Imagine a spy thriller except everyone is very open and honest with each other about their thoughts and feelings.
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Jul 17, 2022 22:50
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:For those of you missing Gordo this season you really owe it to yourself to catch Patriot if you haven't yet. Imagine a spy thriller except everyone is very open and honest with each other about their thoughts and feelings. If you liked Patriot you should watch Perpetual Grace, LTD, it's like an even more unhinged Patriot (same creator). It's a shame it's only one season but it's still worth watching. Someday Steven Conrad will create a show with a good title that's on a network that actually promotes it and everyone will realize they've been missing out on a genius.
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Jul 17, 2022 22:54
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it took me far too long to recognize that he was John Lakeman. spent basically the entire show up til the end just thinking the characters had uncannily similar voice direction before thinking to look it up
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Jul 17, 2022 23:14
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