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BiggerBoat posted:I'll take "News That Should Shock No One" for $1000 “Red Wave in 22” has been a message since 20. I don’t believe it was ever true more than just the hypothetical of blue president -> red house and half assed, way to early analysis and speculation. I think this message that the Rs are expected to take over the house this fall is propaganda to either keep people home and make it come true or be the basis for another wave of election result denial but on a nation wide scale. “Everyone was saying it was going to be a red wave? Must be Dem fraud, where’s Hugo Chavez and those Italian satellites?” Edit: Also lol that Overstock Dec 18th crazy meeting guy just spent 8+ hours testifying on Friday. Murgos fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jul 16, 2022 |
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Jul 16, 2022 16:20
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Rigel posted:It could backfire pretty badly. These loser arguments do not work in court, and they risk convincing their supporters that there's no point in voting in rigged elections, sort of like what happened in Georgia. Huh. I hadn't thought about it that way but you could be right. My instinct is that they're going to keep on harping about it, put "evidence" up on FOX, etc. and than use the manufactured outrage to pass laws that make voting even more difficult in democratic areas than it is now. Meaning, passing a bunch of unneeded "voter protection" laws that only serve to benefit GOP candidates and do nothing whatsoever about basically a non existent problem. What I've always found weird is that there's already a system in place to shield against voter fraud and make sure elections are safe. It's called the voter registration I get. I have to produce an ID, proof of residence and my signature to get one so right there everything they want is already provided to get the card. Except over the last 8 years or so, I'm NEVER asked to provide the loving thing at my polling station. Why? What's the loving point of it? Used to be I'd show the card, they'd check me against the voter roles and I'd go vote. Now I have a useless card that I had to jump through some hoops to get which no one seems to care about.
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Jul 16, 2022 16:33
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Its also not a given that the voting laws they put in to combat an imaginary problem will disproportionately impact Dems. They have already done things like quietly close precincts in urban areas to create long lines in the name of efficiency and budgets, but the laws that come from voting fraud scares usually revolve around making it difficult to vote early or by mail. Dems usually benefit from voting early, but the GOP often benefits from voting by mail due to older voters. The last election was a bit different due to COVID and Democrats wanting to avoid contact, but historically the GOP has counted on their older voters being able to mail in their ballots easily.
Rigel fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Jul 16, 2022 |
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Jul 16, 2022 16:44
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Rigel posted:Its also not a given that the voting laws they put in to combat an imaginary problem will disproportionately impact Dems. They have already done things like quietly close precincts in urban areas to create long lines in the name of efficiency and budgets, but the laws that come from voting fraud scares usually revolve around making it difficult to vote early or by mail. Dems usually benefit from voting early, but the GOP often benefits from voting by mail due to older voters. The last election was a bit different due to COVID and Democrats wanting to avoid contact, but historically the GOP has counted on their older voters being able to mail in their ballots easily. I have a friend who was doing electoral work in the 2010 Maryland Gubernatorial race (He wasn't working for a particular campaign, he was part of his county's election board) and he told me of how Bob Ehrlich(R) was heavily leaning on telling people to vote by mail or vote absentee. He still lost by like 15% and was also found to have been attempting voter suppression via faked robocalls (but there was enough separation between him and the PAC doing it to avoid charges sadly), but the point still exists that he saw mail-in and absentee ballots as a positive for him. It's interesting to see how in just 10 years Republicans flipped from relying on absentee/mail-in votes to denouncing them as a liberal plot to rig elections at the dumbest possible time to try that move.
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Jul 16, 2022 19:19
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BiggerBoat posted:Used to be I'd show the card, they'd check me against the voter roles and I'd go vote. Now I have a useless card that I had to jump through some hoops to get which no one seems to care about. Meanwhile voter registration can and does get used all the loving time to disenfranchise people. “You said your name is Shaniqa and the card says shanequa, you don’t get to vote” Who doesn’t have set signatures? Young people and old people so many of them also get disenfranchised and historically have voted left. There is no voter fraud in any meaningful measure so anything meant to stop voter fraud likely has unintended or other consequences.
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Jul 16, 2022 19:21
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Murgos posted:Because no one is forging your registration and going to vote in your stead because it’s pretty good odds they’d be caught. In sparse areas the people waiting to vote with you are your neighbors and in dense areas you show up later and are told you already voted and you prove who you are then (or you can’t and get arrested) and the other vote gets tossed. Also whatever voter fraud is found is usually overwhelmingly done by Republicans. Funny that.
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Jul 16, 2022 19:26
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Murgos posted:
Can you elaborate on this? It's not 100% making sense to me, so I'm guessing I must be misparsing it.
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Jul 16, 2022 19:48
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Murgos posted:Who doesn’t have set signatures? Young people and old people so many of them also get disenfranchised and historically have voted left. Old people are one of the most reliable voting blocks for the GOP. Ancient voters aged 75+ went Trump in 2020 by 16%.
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Jul 16, 2022 20:00
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Murgos posted:Because no one is forging your registration and going to vote in your stead because it’s pretty good odds they’d be caught. I'm saying that, in my case, I had to show ID and my address and everything else to get the loving card and no one ever even asks for it. They used to. Used to be all I needed. When I produce it on election day now, they tell me they don't need/want it. Which is weird to me. I mean...why have the card? Producing my license when I vote is redundant because I did that. And got a registration card. That is useless. What is the stupid motherfucking card even for?
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Jul 16, 2022 20:05
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Angry_Ed posted:It's interesting to see how in just 10 years Republicans flipped from relying on absentee/mail-in votes to denouncing them as a liberal plot to rig elections at the dumbest possible time to try that move. This wasn't a coincidence; Republicans began railing against early voting and voting by mail when Democrats started doing it more often. Yes, it costs them a few votes, but: They know their voting base will by and large drag themselves across a field of broken glass just to cast a vote, and they bank on the Democratic base being less determined.
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Jul 16, 2022 20:06
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm saying that, in my case, I had to show ID and my address and everything else to get the loving card and no one ever even asks for it. They used to. Used to be all I needed. When I produce it on election day now, they tell me they don't need/want it. Which is weird to me. I mean...why have the card? I'm not sure if my card is the same as yours, but for me it is a nice reminder of where I vote, but thats all its really good for. I actually have two locations, one for school board elections and one for everything else.
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Jul 16, 2022 20:06
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Toaster Beef posted:This wasn't a coincidence; Republicans began railing against early voting and voting by mail when Democrats started doing it more often. Yes, it costs them a few votes, but: They know their voting base will by and large drag themselves across a field of broken glass just to cast a vote, and they bank on the Democratic base being less determined. The Republican party establishment outside of Trump's moron campaign did not want to do that, because they need to win elections after 2020. They quietly screamed at him in the background that it was stupid. They will go right back to backing mail voting for their elderly voters when they do not have a complete loving imbecile at the top of their ticket loudly and angrily denouncing it. Trump believed he was going to lose due to mail voting, and it was emotionally more important for him to have an excuse/conspiracy to blame, than to actually maximize his chances of winning but not have an excuse ready to go. Rigel fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jul 16, 2022 |
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Jul 16, 2022 20:10
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Xiahou Dun posted:Can you elaborate on this? It's not 100% making sense to me, so I'm guessing I must be misparsing it. You used to have to have a set signature for cashing checks and other identity purposes to the point where you would practice at school having a formal consistent signature. Like you’d take your physical paycheck to the bank, sign it, show them your ID and your bank card and the teller would go get your signature card from when you opened the account and then compare all the signatures to be sure they matched. Younger people never have done this so their signatures are variable, very old people often have arthritis or other issues preventing them from forming a consistent signature. You also used to register your signature with your district when you registered to vote so that they could do signature matching when you voted and I think many places still do this. Until 10 or so years ago old people were seen as staunch blue block to protect social security. Today they’d rather hurt the coloreds than live so, eh. Murgos fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jul 16, 2022 |
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Jul 16, 2022 20:32
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Murgos posted:You used to have to have a set signature for cashing checks and other identity purposes to the point where you would practice at school having a formal consistent signature.
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Jul 16, 2022 20:41
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Weird. I'm a Boomer and I was never taught that. To this day, my signature is not the same page to page, to the extent that an agent once made me re-sign multiple pages of a closing document because they don't match well enough. I should fix that, but it's low on the list of things about myself that need fixing. I clearly remember having part of home Ec being how to fill out checks and sign your name consistently.
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Jul 16, 2022 20:44
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Weird. I'm a Boomer and I was never taught that. To this day, my signature is not the same page to page, to the extent that an agent once made me re-sign multiple pages of a closing document because they don't match well enough. I should fix that, but it's low on the list of things about myself that need fixing. I have the same issue but I'm a millenial and I don't think we were ever really taught this especially because it really doesn't seem that important given how my generation grew up with those electronic signature pads that never work properly or accurately  That said I do try to make my signature at least close.
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Jul 16, 2022 20:45
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Murgos posted:I clearly remember having part of home Ec being how to fill out checks and sign your name consistently.
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Jul 16, 2022 20:48
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BiggerBoat posted:I'll take "News That Should Shock No One" for $1000 The hosed up thing is that the red wave probably will be real because of gerrymandering and general dem apathy over democratic fecklessness but they will lean on this harder to fortify their gains. Our politics in this country is pretty bleak.
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Jul 16, 2022 21:10
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Signature matching is pure quackery btw, utterly trivial to fool. The only consistently accepted verification of a signature is calling the person up and asking them if they signed it. For example a traced signature is going to match basically every criterion. Signature required is basically asking for a claim you were/wernt in a certain spot at a certain time. Literally hand tracing a signature produces enough difference to fool things looking for an exact match while producing something similar enough to the original artifacts humans cant tell the difference even with tools. Most of what catches out people in these cases is greed. They do something that triggers a secondary heuristic that gets the case examined and then medicare learns its sending 20 dead guys checks to the same address or someone signing power of attorney off to a nobody with no law experience or prior relation. The biggest issue is the real person comes up and says they never signed that document. People have been forging signatures for thousands of years. Courts are used to it. (I dont know why hell country lets endorsed checks be bearer instruments, anything to make sure the poors stay that way i guess)
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Jul 16, 2022 22:08
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:The "normal" outcome of these hearings would be impeachment but there's no precedent for impeachment of a non-sitting President, Sure there is. Trump was impeached before the inauguration, but tried after it; and multiple government officials (judges, IIRC) have been impeached, and convicted, after resigning (in a failed attempt to preempt or moot impeachment proceedings against them).
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Jul 16, 2022 22:15
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Murgos posted:You used to have to have a set signature for cashing checks and other identity purposes to the point where you would practice at school having a formal consistent signature. I’m a millennial so I guess I missed out on these classes, but I and everyone I know still has a consistent signature because that’s how handwriting works.
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Jul 17, 2022 00:00
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Xiahou Dun posted:I’m a millennial so I guess I missed out on these classes, but I and everyone I know still has a consistent signature because that’s how handwriting works. Mine doesn't. Seriously. I am not being spontaneous and free, I just have sucky small motor control.
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Jul 17, 2022 00:31
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Rigel posted:I'm not sure if my card is the same as yours, but for me it is a nice reminder of where I vote, but thats all its really good for. I actually have two locations, one for school board elections and one for everything else. How did you get it? What did you have to provide? In my case? An ID, proof of residence, party affiliation, and a signature. Everything people fighting "voter fraud" say we should have to show LeeMajors posted:The hosed up thing is that the red wave probably will be real because of gerrymandering and general dem apathy over democratic fecklessness but they will lean on this harder to fortify their gains. Yeah, it's a hell of a sweet spot they're settling into. When they lose, it was FRAUD! If they win, it's "SEE? These new restrictive voter laws work!" Wash, rinse, repeat. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jul 17, 2022 |
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Jul 17, 2022 00:50
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Angry_Ed posted:I have a friend who was doing electoral work in the 2010 Maryland Gubernatorial race (He wasn't working for a particular campaign, he was part of his county's election board) and he told me of how Bob Ehrlich(R) was heavily leaning on telling people to vote by mail or vote absentee. He still lost by like 15% and was also found to have been attempting voter suppression via faked robocalls (but there was enough separation between him and the PAC doing it to avoid charges sadly), but the point still exists that he saw mail-in and absentee ballots as a positive for him. It's interesting to see how in just 10 years Republicans flipped from relying on absentee/mail-in votes to denouncing them as a liberal plot to rig elections at the dumbest possible time to try that move. This is a demographic thing. Absentee ballots and overseas ballots are generally older, military, and conservative voters. More important with absentee ballot you had to give a "reason" and then send the ballot back creating more friction to vote. The opposition to early vote and mail in ballot is that younger, black, and more leftist voters vote by mail in or vote early. Short reason is poverty, if you can vote two weeks before an election businesses have a harder time making people stay at home on election day.
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Jul 17, 2022 00:52
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BiggerBoat posted:How did you get it? What did you have to provide? In my case? An ID, proof of residence, party affiliation, and a signature. Mine doesn't have a photo. Cheap unlaminated paper. I could easily walk in with anyone's voter registration card if they don't ask for photo verification. Not that it's a big deal, but theoretically that's why the registration card might not be sufficient. But, you can't just use an ID because you need to register to vote in a primary.
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Jul 17, 2022 01:09
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XboxPants posted:Mine doesn't have a photo. Cheap unlaminated paper. I could easily walk in with anyone's voter registration card if they don't ask for photo verification. None of them have a photo. But we have to provide a photo ID to get the card in the first place. The card basically says "this person passed all the voter ID laws, proved who they were and where they live and here is the proof that due diligence was done". If all of that is useless, then just don't issue the loving registration card.
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Jul 17, 2022 01:17
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Xiahou Dun posted:I’m a millennial so I guess I missed out on these classes, but I and everyone I know still has a consistent signature because that’s how handwriting works.
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Jul 17, 2022 01:50
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BiggerBoat posted:If all of that is useless, then just don't issue the loving registration card. Everything we're talking about in here makes sense, so it really doesn't apply to their endgame. They don't need extra ID cards and validation because they just want to stop you at the door and ask you one simple question before you're considered a verified voter: Which Republican are you voting for? Why do you think the only "non fraudulent voting locations" they'll accept will be GOP local headquarters? Maybe a nice "Christians only" fundamentalist church. Local sheriff's office, but probably not in the big cities until they start arresting the sodomites again. I still think it would be really cute if these hearings led to so many representatives in collusion being revealed that the moderates back more Democrats in their states and Congress turns more blue. (Please please, someone who understands stupid people, find the right messaging.)
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Jul 17, 2022 03:32
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Well, all I know is at one point my reg card was all I needed to vote and now it doesn't do anything ... Article on what to expect from the final hearing Thursday, July 21 at 8 p.m. It's log but here's some excerpts January 6 committee’s investigation stirs up fresh revelations ahead of last planed hearing https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/16/politics/january-6-committee-latest/index.html The House January 6 committee corroborated key details involving former President Donald Trump’s heated exchange with the Secret Service when Trump was told he could not go to the Capitol – the latest in a string of shocking revelations that have come from the summer hearings with their expected high-profile conclusion next week. The corroboration comes as the committee plans to zero in on Trump’s conduct on January 6, 2021 at its hearing next week, which will focus on Trump’s response – or lack thereof – as rioters breached the Capitol walls and forced lawmakers to flee their chambers. “There will be a lot of information, a lot more clarity about the details of the things that happened that day, what the people who were working in the White House, working around the President and even people who were advising him to do things, actions that he was not taking based off of their reasoned advice,” Virginia Democratic Rep. Elaine Luria, who will help lead the next hearing, told CNN this week. “I look at it as a dereliction of duty. He didn’t act. He did not take action to stop the violence.” New details about Trump’s efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss to Joe Biden have continued to emerge. On Saturday, The New York Times reported that a little-known conservative lawyer, William Olson, spoke to Trump in December 2020 about efforts to enlist the Justice Department to sign on to a lawsuit at the US Supreme Court to overturn the presidential election results, according to a memo Olson drafted documenting the call. Olson also encouraged Trump to replace lawyers in the White House counsel’s office and to take steps related to the election that would effectively have amounted to “martial law.” Former Trump White House deputy press secretary Sarah Matthews is expected to be a witness. The committee is also likely to lean heavily on video clips from the deposition of Pat Cipollone, Trump’s former White House counsel.
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Jul 17, 2022 12:47
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Xiahou Dun posted:I’m a millennial so I guess I missed out on these classes, but I and everyone I know still has a consistent signature because that’s how handwriting works. Real, “I’m smart so I’ll make firm declarations about things I’m ignorant of” energy here. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/signature-matching-is-the-phrenology-of-elections/616790/ https://lawyerscommittee.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Ohio.pdf “ A political scientist at Carroll College, working on behalf of plaintiffs challenging Ohio’s signature-matching law, found that 97 percent of rejected signatures are likely to be authentic—or, for every invalid ballot, 32 valid ones are thrown out.” ‘Florida law says that ballots can be rejected because of a mismatch, but a 2019 lawsuit filed by Democrats complained that the state offered no training or procedures for officials assessing signatures, “resulting in processes that are demonstrably standardless, inconsistent, and unreliable.”’ “ Regardless of the overall rejection rates, it’s a safe bet whose ballots will be rejected most: those of the youngest voters, the oldest voters, disabled voters, and voters of color. The first three of these are relatively easily explained. As schools phase handwriting instruction out of their curriculum, young people no longer learn cursive. They are less likely to have consistent, well-practiced signatures, and as a result, are less likely to have two signatures from different occasions match. Over time, their handwriting matures too. Freda Levenson, the legal director of the ACLU of Ohio, told me about a voter who had registered with a girlish signature when she was in high school. By the time she tried casting an absentee ballot in her 30s, “she in effect had to forge her own signature to make it match.” Similarly, older voters’ handwriting is sometimes in decline. Voters who suffer from illnesses such as stroke may lose the ability to sign the way they once did. But why so many voters of color see their ballots rejected is not well understood. “ “An analysis of the 2020 Florida primary by the Stanford-MIT Healthy Elections Project found that Black and Hispanic voters’ ballots were rejected at roughly double the rate white voters’ were. The same was true in Wisconsin, where more than 10,000 Black voters’ ballots were rejected in the 2020 primary. President Trump’s 2016 margin of victory in the state was fewer than 23,000 votes.” And on and on and on.. look it’s irrefutable that there is wide spread disenfranchisement of voters because of signature matching and there are many studies that it disproportionately affects olds and youngs because their signatures can be less consistent.
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Jul 17, 2022 13:17
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Mine doesn't. Seriously. I am not being spontaneous and free, I just have sucky small motor control. My signature has 3 kinda consistent features and everything else is performance art
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Jul 17, 2022 13:32
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Next hearing is Thursday night at 8 eastern, and will focus on Trump doing nothing for 187 minutes.
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Jul 17, 2022 14:21
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Allison Gill Twitter thread identifying 11 potentially independent DOJ investigations of J06 that we have evidence of: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1547093947645734912.html
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Jul 17, 2022 14:27
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https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3pdam/steven-bannon-trial-jan-6 How Doomed Is Steve Bannon? Steve Bannon’s trial for failing to testify to the Congressional committee investigating Jan. 6 starts Monday. And he’s probably going to jail, former prosecutors told VICE News. quote:Bannon is facing two misdemeanor counts of contempt of Congress after failing to show up to testify to the committee investigating Jan. 6, which subpoenaed him. And unless something weird and unexpected happens, Bannon will probably end up scoring a criminal conviction and serving at least 30 days in jail and potentially more, three former prosecutors following the case told VICE News.
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Jul 17, 2022 15:23
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Nichols is a Trump appointee but has shown very little patience for bullshit. I suspect this is going to go badly for Bannon, and very quickly. The government will rest probably before the end of this week.
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Jul 17, 2022 15:26
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I regret to inform you that my dad, a fox news consumer, says the jan 6 Committee opens the door to political investigation theater where Republicans will simply jail all the Democrats when they gain power. The committee was illegitimate the second they didn't let Republicans place persons of interest like Jordan on the panel investigating the crime he was involved in. And Cassidy was fake news, she got every detail wrong about the one portion of her testimony regarding trump in the secret service car and nobody is corroborating it, so everything else she said is wrong too. And all the Republican testimony they keep using as evidence? People trying to win politically, telling "half truths" under oath, with their messages being twisted by the committee to sell Democrat votes. Sorry y'all pack it in the country appears to be over. Crimes committed by politicians cannot be prosecuted by the government because it's too political.
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Jul 17, 2022 15:28
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I wonder if your dad likes video evidence. https://twitter.com/capitolhunters/status/1545673674304397312?s=20&t=7rLO8KdjZwLzycqqV8-VmA
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Jul 17, 2022 15:34
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mdemone posted:I wonder if your dad likes video evidence. 1) there were *seven* camera crews there on Jan 6? Holy poo poo 2) their dad would say it's all faked
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Jul 17, 2022 16:11
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Judge Schnoopy posted:I regret to inform you that my dad, a fox news consumer, says the jan 6 Committee opens the door to political investigation theater where Republicans will simply jail all the Democrats when they gain power. The committee was illegitimate the second they didn't let Republicans place persons of interest like Jordan on the panel investigating the crime he was involved in. I seem to remember a whole bunch of committees and interviews about Benghazi. Also Clinton actually going to those. I'm assuming your dad just memory holed those.
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Jul 17, 2022 16:20
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Madkal posted:I seem to remember a whole bunch of committees and interviews about Benghazi. Also Clinton actually going to those. I'm assuming your dad just memory holed those. Also for all that bullshit the Republicans concluded Clinton did nothing illegal. The hearings still served their purpose though.
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Jul 17, 2022 16:27
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