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SatoshiMiwa posted:EVIL matches could 100% feel samey at times when he was in LIJ so it's more an EVIL issue than a HOT issue but hey maybe he'll learn like Taco's did and become good one day EVIL matches in LIJ were fun hoss stuff and he put on good to great matches with regularity. HoT EVIL started to dress like Diesel and work like Kevin Nash. It was such a bizarre downgrade.
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Jul 17, 2022 01:57
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I mean, you're both correct. EVIL LIJ matches were mostly good, but he showed a real lack of creativity that became more of a problem when the spots he was repeating were the same bullshit interference spots. Part of the reason for HOT being more tolerable this year, beyond them being reduced to comedy goobers, is that the finishes have moved beyond constant ref bump to Spoiler's Choker sequences.
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Jul 17, 2022 02:06
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The Chair homerun spot just got real boring even in LIJ and him moving to Tags with Sanada kinda of hid that for a bit
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Jul 17, 2022 02:14
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That one tag match he had with Shingo against Ishii and Goto at NYD 2020 was fantastic and one of the better matches of the year and I kinda wish those two teams got added to the tag division
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Jul 17, 2022 02:35
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The other thing about HoT is how pointless they were. EvIL v Naito was rightly called the worst new japan match in a long time but its not even the HoT match I will always remember. That goes to EVIL v SANADA at wrestlekingdom. This was the big blow off, the long term tag teamfinally meet, betrayal and so on. And then they proceeded to have a below average WWE match. And I'm not even sure if that was EVIL's fault as SANADA was in a blood feud and wrestled even more bored himbo than usual. By the end despite HoT being the heel stable who were meant to inspire visceral hatred they continued to get go away heat aided by even their most natural enemies not even caring. Meanwhile Tanahashi and KENTA later had the match they should have had.
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Jul 17, 2022 03:25
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Hiromu finally had the matches he should have had with EVIL after the betrayal angle in the New Japan Cup and Hyper Battle this year. If they'd had a match like those matches in their IWGP title match instead of a standard EVIL match after the great angle with Hiromu screaming in the ring at Dominion, then at least the EVIL turn would have started well
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Jul 17, 2022 03:30
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Naito winning the title back from EVIL in the baseball stadium was a nice moment. In fact that whole show was pretty good from memory.
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Jul 17, 2022 04:17
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Evil v naito wasn't even that bad and it was just a continuation of EVIL not being able to do those long njpw mainevents. When he was in lij all his good matches with Okada were in g1s with 30 minute time limits. The worst match of the pandemic was that 30 minute chase v yano match and the staggering amount of one match cards were a much bigger problem. Even if evil stayed a hoss he would have randomly had so so matches in the position on the card he was in. Idk I really don't think EVIL was the big issue in njpw. Clap crowds and chasing gates were the problem. The latter they have calmed down and the former is what it is
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Jul 17, 2022 04:24
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Dr. Quarex posted:I feel like I heard in this thread the entirely reasonable point that he probably does not want to share a literal locker room with C.M. Punk If this is the case then double gently caress Punk. His rear end should have stayed retired.
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Jul 17, 2022 07:21
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the cm punk/colt stuff still being enough of a problem that it would effect actual booking is very much speculation
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Jul 17, 2022 07:40
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Why has it become so much more popular to throw forearms than punches?
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Jul 17, 2022 18:07
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Punches are illegal. Really, forearms look like they hurt and are easier to fake and still look good. Anyone can throw a realistic forearm. A realistic punch, that takes some work.
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Jul 17, 2022 18:09
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also, Stan Hansen had two of the greatest forearms in wrestling history (mainly because he was blind as a bat and he stiffed everyone with his lariats), so it's not hard to imagine that folks would've taken after him for their forearm strikes and clotheslines and what have you
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Jul 17, 2022 18:18
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yea ok posted:Punches are illegal. Really, forearms look like they hurt and are easier to fake and still look good. Anyone can throw a realistic forearm. A realistic punch, that takes some work. I wish basically everyone would use forearms instead of punches. The other one is when people use clinched straight knees like John Moxley and they look just awful, thank god he's stopped doing that from what I remember. I think they should bring back the "punches to the face are DQ'd" just so I don't ever have to see a lovely worked face punch ever again. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jul 17, 2022 |
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Jul 17, 2022 18:20
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palm strikes and chops are my fav strike exchanges because they look poo poo if you try to fake them, so no one really does. must really suck after the match, tho
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Jul 17, 2022 18:48
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I like chops and forearms better but a really good worked punch can be real good when done right (See El Desperado or even Juice Robinson)
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Jul 17, 2022 19:16
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Pay Terry Funk to teach all wrestlers how to throw a proper punch
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Jul 17, 2022 19:24
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scott hall was pretty good at worked punches
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Jul 17, 2022 19:26
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Pay Terry Funk to teach all wrestlers how to throw a proper punch be a pretty short lesson as Foley established in his book that Funk just clocked people
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Jul 17, 2022 19:35
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ItohRespectArmy posted:scott hall was pretty good at worked punches I look when Hook has someone in the corner and gives them alternating closed fist body shots.
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Jul 17, 2022 21:00
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ItohRespectArmy posted:scott hall was pretty good at worked punches Jerry Lawler too, but gently caress that guy.
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Jul 17, 2022 21:38
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If I wanted to see good punches I would just watch boxing. Forearms all the way.
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Jul 17, 2022 21:42
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if i wanted to see good forearms i would just look at you while you're posting
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Jul 17, 2022 22:07
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I post by voice to text on my phone
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Jul 17, 2022 22:09
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Super No Vacancy posted:I post by voice to text on my phone Popeye arms cause so much trouble for people just trying to live a regular life.
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Jul 17, 2022 22:20
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What's the story behind Mr. Kennedy? I lived in Michigan all my life till 2009 so I came back to wrestling for that WrestleMania and he seemed like the next golden boy. Only it obviously never happened and I don't know why apart from it looked like a lot of backstage poo poo in addition to being injury prone.
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Jul 18, 2022 12:37
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Injuries was a big part, he had to drop the MITB briefcase without cashing in which derailed his big push. He was also known as a sloppy worker and got a lot of poo poo for sandbagging guys, I think Cena flat-out refused to work with him at one point. When Cena and Orton didn't like you, you didn't have much of a chance at that time. Benne fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Jul 18, 2022 |
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Jul 18, 2022 12:42
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Benne posted:Injuries was a big part, he had to drop the MITB briefcase without cashing in which derailed his big push. He was also known as a sloppy worker and got a lot of poo poo for sandbagging guys, I think Cena flat-out refused to work with him at one point. Kennedy was back only a few days from his latest injury before he dropped Orton on his head in a belly to back suplex (that Kennedy says Orton jumped too hard for, but still) and apparently Orton not only berated Kennedy in front of everybody including Vince he also got Cena to back him up.
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Jul 18, 2022 13:09
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Kennedy had one of the worst ever WWE matches against Bobby Lashley at the 07 Royal Rumble. Dreadful dreadful.
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Jul 18, 2022 13:17
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Coaaab posted:palm strikes and chops are my fav strike exchanges because they look poo poo if you try to fake them, so no one really does. must really suck after the match, tho I also like that there are multiple ways you can go with them and the fans will buy it. There's no-selling, there's "that hurt, but I'm OK," there's "gently caress, now I'm gonna hit you even harder for that one," etc. There could be two guys hitting each other equally hard, but one's feeling it while the other is like "yes, this is what I'm here for, keep it up!" and it doesn't make the first guy look bad. Benne posted:Injuries was a big part, he had to drop the MITB briefcase without cashing in which derailed his big push. He was also known as a sloppy worker and got a lot of poo poo for sandbagging guys, I think Cena flat-out refused to work with him at one point. Summer 2007 was a real one-two punch for his chances: he got hurt, had to drop the briefcase, came back from his injury and was going to be the "illegitimate son" before he went down with a wellness violation a few weeks later. Really let all the air out of his balloon in that one span.
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Jul 18, 2022 13:24
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if I remember right Kennedy did stuff that he thought looked more "realistic" but that nobody else expected because it was nonstandard and therefore was more dangerous. Cena tore his pec hip tossing Kennedy, which is probably just bad luck on everyone's part, but Kennedy took a lot of heat for it. Orton was just coming off injury like 18 months later, Kennedy did a goofball looking suplex to him, Randy complained backstage, Cena backed him up, and that was pretty much it for Kennedy. He also extremely stupidly publicly said he didn't do any performance enhancing drugs like a week before a giant list of guys using performance enhancing drugs came out, which made the WWE's testing policies look even worse than usual. it all seemed like he was a loudmouth who pissed off the wrongest possible people.
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Jul 18, 2022 13:29
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As a kid I watched wrestling from the late 80s to early 90s, so my memory of Bret Hart is as a midcard babyface and chiefly in the Hart Foundation with Anvil. I had stopped watching before he was really The Guy or had his best matches. If I had stuck around, what is it about Bret Hart that would have stood out to me? Would I appreciate him as a kid or was he more for older workrate fans like a Dean Malenko?
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Jul 18, 2022 14:59
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A friend of mine was doing some work in someone’s house today and this person had this photograph in their basement. He snapped it and put it in the group chat. We are having a nightmare trying to work out where it might be from It’s clearly Ted Dibiase v Hulk Hogan but we’re disagreeing whether it might be from Hulk’s 93 run or from their late 80s programme. What is throwing us off is the outside setting, like Mania 9, BUT that appears to have the look of a stand at an English football stadium. I’ve searched for Ted v Hulk matches on cagematch and whilst not an expert on small American venues, nothing strikes me as being outdoors. Also, Hulk looks bigger than his 93 run, and they both look younger. Nothing else sadly is giving us clues. The ropes are old school WWF as is the turnbuckle logo. I’m going to lose sleep over this!
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Jul 18, 2022 15:44
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Wrestling is more interesting if closed fists are banned and people have to do forearms and chops and palm strikes and elbows and stuff.
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Jul 18, 2022 15:54
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Nehru the Damaja posted:As a kid I watched wrestling from the late 80s to early 90s, so my memory of Bret Hart is as a midcard babyface and chiefly in the Hart Foundation with Anvil. I had stopped watching before he was really The Guy or had his best matches. he was realistic and technical in a world previously saturated with monsters and roided up superheroes. Ultimately, his biggest positive was that he was believable. I love Bret.
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Jul 18, 2022 15:56
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Halloween Jack posted:Wrestling is more interesting if closed fists are banned and people have to do forearms and chops and palm strikes and elbows and stuff. one of my favorite crusty old bitch things is when people complain that forearms and chops and whatever don't look "legit" and then talk about how wrestlers in the 80s throwing giant theatrical wind up punches while stomping their feet on the mat to make noise was the greatest thing they've ever seen
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Jul 18, 2022 15:59
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Nehru the Damaja posted:As a kid I watched wrestling from the late 80s to early 90s, so my memory of Bret Hart is as a midcard babyface and chiefly in the Hart Foundation with Anvil. I had stopped watching before he was really The Guy or had his best matches. What made me love Bret was at WrestleMania IV when he turned on Bad News Brown (who double-crossed him in the battle royal), basically beginning his babyface run. I don't know why that stuck with me so much other than maybe it was just a clear Good vs Bad thing? I think part of his appeal was that he was different from what Hogan and Warrior were presented as, so he wasn't competing in that space in a child's brain. He was a different thing you could like, and his matches were always exciting in a different way than the main events. He was also just like... the easiest babyface to love because he sold really well, was earnest, and you really wanted to see him win. While he was never a great promo guy (similar to Malenko), he did have some kind of charisma that was easy to latch onto as a kid I guess. Then when the Hart Foundation came back and he was just the Canadian babyface and American heel, he was on another level completely.
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Jul 18, 2022 16:03
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britishbornandbread posted:A friend of mine was doing some work in someone’s house today and this person had this photograph in their basement. He snapped it and put it in the group chat. We are having a nightmare trying to work out where it might be from  Compare the bracing behind the crowd to this relatively recent photo of the grandstands
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Jul 18, 2022 16:06
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Coaaab posted:Not 100% sure but I think it's this: That is some sensational detective work, thank you!
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Jul 18, 2022 16:09
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Halloween Jack posted:Wrestling is more interesting if closed fists are banned and people have to do forearms and chops and palm strikes and elbows and stuff. Also if closed fists are banned then heels can use them to get heat.
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Jul 18, 2022 16:18
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