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Enjoy posted:Started thinking of a tech tree for the 2100AD collapse mod I mentioned before Room Temperature superconductors Or, watch the intros to the TV show fringe and jam all the sciency ones in. Self stealing stem-bolts? For miltech in far future, something like Hunter-Killers? Nano-tech forges Horsebanger fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 07:19
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Enjoy posted:Started thinking of a tech tree for the 2100AD collapse mod I mentioned before post-individualist thought zero-point energy heisenberg compensation human speciation / eugenic caste system > worker subhumans mind upload artificial wombs post-posadist apocalyptic thought self-assembling production mind upload/backups + memory authoring > synthetic human minds empathic anarchism brain transplant > artificial bodies mechanical telepathy epigenetic neolysenkoism a model of the human mind neocapitalism learning computers subconscious democracy (direct democracy based on perfect understanding of people's desires) mind puppeting psychology of gaia > worldmind communication cure for cancer > genetic immortality broad spectrum antivirals unified prediction theory
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Jul 20, 2022 08:05
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Cease to Hope posted:mind upload/backups + memory authoring > synthetic human minds This one technology alone seems like the sort of thing an entire total conversion mod could be built around. I don't remember if I've posted about it before, but it's definitely the kind of thing that could be comparable to the industrial revolution. What are the political implications of a pop that's immortal, has minimal needs, can easily replace any non-laborer pop, and can still vote? What happens if they start reproducing and you end up with a 2:1 ratio of virtual to physical humans? 10:1? 1000:1? Either side could plausibly end up enslaving the other. Edit: I did already mention it: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3968353&userid=94131#post523490141
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Jul 20, 2022 11:33
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Enjoy posted:Started thinking of a tech tree for the 2100AD collapse mod I mentioned before Please include the blockchain as a technology that provides zero benefits, wastes resources, and emits pollution.
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Jul 20, 2022 13:37
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Red Bones posted:Please include the blockchain as a technology that provides zero benefits, wastes resources, and emits pollution. I haven't paid close enough attention to Victoria 3 tech, but Victoria 2 had inventions that were purely negative like, woo, you discovered terrorism.
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Jul 20, 2022 14:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrLMQTDpuaA You can see the living map live here!
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Jul 20, 2022 14:30
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Cease to Hope posted:i mean, sure, if i was being dismissive. struggling with the contradictions, not wholly successfully, is an interesting subtext in his work yeah ok that's fair
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Jul 20, 2022 14:36
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Red Bones posted:Please include the blockchain as a technology that provides zero benefits, wastes resources, and emits pollution. -80% microchip production efficiency.
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Jul 20, 2022 14:47
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:This one technology alone seems like the sort of thing an entire total conversion mod could be built around. 🧵: https://twitter.com/qntm/status/1535969191551016961
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Jul 20, 2022 15:28
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Which would totally not count as brainwashing or be a massive violation of their rights.
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Jul 20, 2022 15:34
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Poil posted:Which would totally not count as brainwashing or be a massive violation of their rights. https://twitter.com/qntm/status/1535975473485840385
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Jul 20, 2022 16:00
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Poil posted:Which would totally not count as brainwashing or be a massive violation of their rights. Which I suppose raises the next question: how much can you modify an em from yourself until it becomes a distinct person legally? Or should exact copies of people each have identical civil rights?
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Jul 20, 2022 16:06
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Which I suppose raises the next question: how much can you modify an em from yourself until it becomes a distinct person legally? Or should exact copies of people each have identical civil rights? If you've never played Eclipse Phase, you should, they deal with precisely this. Also you can play as a tank or an uplifted parrot or a nanobot swarm.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:29
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StashAugustine posted:James Scott is a great writer and has lots of interesting ideas but if you take them too far you end up in the "rulers are imperialism" camp You claim rulers are not imperialism, yet the one I'm looking at right now has inches on it.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:55
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This author specifically is very relevant to the topic. https://qntm.org/mmacevedo
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Jul 20, 2022 18:42
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Quixzlizx posted:I think it's supposed to represent the reach of the bureaucracy. So, not necessarily corruption, but the state doesn't have enough census takers to know who exists and how much they own/owe, and/or they don't have enough tax collector manpower to travel out to Dirt Farmer Village A every year to collect 8 clods of dirt, and/or tax revenue never makes it back to the capital, not all due to outright embezzlement to buy mayors new mansions, but because court officials/ministers don't know how much they should be expecting because they can't track revenue as a function of national production. China’s an interesting example on this case — I’ve read about this more explicitly for Joseon, but as far as I recall it was a trend in Qing too — there was a lot of pressure by part of the Confucian literati to view censuses not as a means to tax, but simply as a way to gauge the prosperity of the people by measuring population growth. If it sounds like this would cause a lot of inefficiency, yes.
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Jul 20, 2022 18:55
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Subsistence farmers don't generate much surplus anyway right?
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Jul 20, 2022 19:44
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Morrow posted:I haven't paid close enough attention to Victoria 3 tech, but Victoria 2 had inventions that were purely negative like, woo, you discovered terrorism. I don't think there are inherently negative techs but there are techs that you might not want (if you're not going socialist you don't want to discover socialism because that might give your parents Ideas but it will probably spread to you eventually.)
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Jul 20, 2022 20:09
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Can't stand it when my parents force me to collectivize my bedroom
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Jul 20, 2022 20:26
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I think they've said that they aren't going to have any purely negative techs since people just wouldn't take them, but will kind of replicate the way the negative inventions worked by having techs give a lot of "mixed" benefits. Like discovering something that will make you more money or give you a military edge but also raises your citizen's quality of life expectation because of the new goods it makes available.
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Jul 20, 2022 22:22
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There are definitely some techs that are strictly bad to some people. Socialism makes your workers more politically conscious, which might not be ideal, but nationalism is really going to introduce a ton of problems for some countries. Pan-nationalism could also cause problems. Thanks to tech spread you're going to have to deal with these new concepts sooner or later. But someone will want all of these techs eventually. If you want to give your conservative aristocrats the boot from your industrializing country's government, it might help to have a more conscious class of urban workers to back up your industrialists.
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Jul 20, 2022 22:39
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Yeah there's obviously going to be some techs that have more utility for some strategies than others, but I think they aren't going to have any like the "terrorism" invention from Victoria 2 where it's a straight up negative no matter who you are, since that kind of design wouldn't make sense with the way V3 techs work.
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Jul 20, 2022 23:43
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah there's obviously going to be some techs that have more utility for some strategies than others, but I think they aren't going to have any like the "terrorism" invention from Victoria 2 where it's a straight up negative no matter who you are, since that kind of design wouldn't make sense with the way V3 techs work. A shame they got rid of that, really. Having this kind of 100% positive tech system, without allowing for the introduction negative externalities of (semi-)problematic socio-economic phenomena is not reproduces surprisingly Hegelian whig-history ideas, the vicky 2 tech/inventions distinction allowed some interesting mechics and flavour. In general, it looks like Vicky 3 has a less holistic vision in some aspects, which imho is a step back
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Jul 20, 2022 23:51
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Inventing terrorism should've allowed you to fund terrorist groups that wouldve been pulled out of pops but not tied to specific countries
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Jul 20, 2022 23:53
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Inventing Anarchist Bomb Throwers was a hoot.
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Jul 21, 2022 01:53
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Just paint a red and black flag on one of those catapults with the flaming rocks from Age of Empires.
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Jul 21, 2022 01:55
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Tankbuster posted:Inventing Anarchist Bomb Throwers was a hoot. The thing is that's kind of a solid mechanic for "unlocking" new options in a simulationist game like this. No state chooses to go anarchist, they are forced by their people. So if the player wants to go anarchist, they must first make their people mad. I think feminism works the same way.
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Jul 21, 2022 02:03
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VostokProgram posted:Subsistence farmers don't generate much surplus anyway right? No, you tend to have to force them to generate a surplus by taxing them. Otherwise they will normally (very sensibly) not want to do more farming than they need to, because farming is exhausting. This is as far as I remember from studying this stuff, anyway. They might make a bit extra to have a food supply to fall back on during crop failures, but the risk and investment involved in expanding or diversifying farm output is high enough that its often not worth it versus just, doing less work and enjoying your free time having more peasant festivals or whatever.
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Jul 21, 2022 05:43
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oscarthewilde posted:A shame they got rid of that, really. Having this kind of 100% positive tech system, without allowing for the introduction negative externalities of (semi-)problematic socio-economic phenomena is not reproduces surprisingly Hegelian whig-history ideas, the vicky 2 tech/inventions distinction allowed some interesting mechics and flavour. In general, it looks like Vicky 3 has a less holistic vision in some aspects, which imho is a step back straight negatives are very hard to sell to a player from a game design standpoint, even if they lead to something positive in the long run. it's very hard to get players to take options that don't have a least a hint of upside in a vacuum, even if they have positives gated behind them. a lot of the things that make a grand strategy game appealing to play as a gamer don't really correlate with actual good governance, and making a game that's actually fun to play is more important than appealing to historical accuracy.
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Jul 21, 2022 06:36
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i think it's pretty likely that some kind of event-driven invention system will be an early v3 mod so don't worry, i'm sure you'll be able to invent terrorism eventually
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Jul 21, 2022 07:22
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In 1848 terrorism was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move
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Jul 21, 2022 07:25
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Mantis42 posted:In 1848 terrorism was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move  From https://www.chapelcomic.com/
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Jul 21, 2022 07:39
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:measurements arent inherently imperialistic but they are inherently bourgeouis, dont @ me i will be taking no questions at this time Standardized weights and measures are things that were introduced by states as they got stronger, ie. more centralized. These tend to be the imperialist states. However, it's also goddamn useful.
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Jul 21, 2022 08:35
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Did they say when dev diaries would be coming back?
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Jul 21, 2022 19:54
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VostokProgram posted:Did they say when dev diaries would be coming back? They're taking July off, so sometime in August
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Jul 21, 2022 19:56
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Orange Devil posted:Standardized weights and measures are things that were introduced by states as they got stronger, ie. more centralized. These tend to be the imperialist states.
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Jul 21, 2022 22:47
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kw0134 posted:A strong state is a necessary condition of being a successful imperialist, so this argument means the trappings of any decently powerful state is imperialistic. Sometimes a thing is done not because it lets a state dominate its neighbors but because it is also inherently a useful project. Centralization is definitely inherently useful to some people, but there's a reason it has to be imposed and is often resisted. I know we're talking about standardized weights and measures, and who really cares about that, but consider how that exact argument of "inherently useful" could apply to, say, language.
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Jul 21, 2022 23:03
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Yes, and? The power of the state can be used or abused, this is not disputed. But not everything a state does becomes an abuse of power or the people it rules or wants to rule. Would you consider the act of building a health care system an act of tyranny, then?
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Jul 21, 2022 23:21
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kw0134 posted:Yes, and? The power of the state can be used or abused, this is not disputed. But not everything a state does becomes an abuse of power or the people it rules or wants to rule. These arguments are explicitly anarchist ones. They are disputing your latter point.
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Jul 22, 2022 06:08
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Yeah, and it's an argument that resembles the wint tweet that there's no difference between good and bad things, you absolute idiot, you buffoon. Particularly in the context of "maybe we should use the same weights instead of Bob's barleycorns in one town and Charlie's cowshead in another" it's a massive stretch to go and claim it's a hallmark of imperialism.
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Jul 22, 2022 14:01
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