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This combination of blatant bigotry and the author obviously being pretty dumb is pretty funny, tbh.
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Jul 20, 2022 14:13
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Megazver posted:This combination of blatant bigotry and the author obviously being pretty dumb is pretty funny, tbh. He's just trying not to sound like a no it all, because no one likes no it alls. No one plays with no it alls either.
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Jul 20, 2022 14:19
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Dexo posted:I just don't think the base action "playing a tabletop game with some people" needs to have the tag "be friends" over it. I don't think anybody is saying everybody you play unpaid games with is your friend. The point is that the potential is there to one day be friends. Not after one session, but it's a social activity and maybe one day. Friendships have started between GMs and players who met at a game at a con. I have made friends with people who were randos I GM'd for on Discord. A social activity can turn into friendship. The number of people who have become friends with their paid GM has to be at least an order of magnitude lower. If one plays in a twenty-session campaign with a free GM, it's probably not unusual to consider that person a friend. If one plays in a twenty-session campaign with a paid GM, that person is probably not your friend. There are outliers, I'm sure, but the main idea I posited was not that GMing equals friendship, but rather that paying generally precludes the potential of friendship.
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Jul 20, 2022 14:35
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I pay people for my entertainment all the time:
GMs are basically the same, especially if they are running a first-party module. Now, you can (and I do) have a social relationship with your GM/players, but it isn't a fundamental necessity, and the game isn't any less for not having it. And, yes, right now I'm working out my personal logistics for paying a GM for myself (and possibly some friends) to play PF2E because finding all of the above in my social circle has proved impossible (except that I've been doing it for a group for 2 years running, and I'd really just like to play):
Honestly, I'd take just the first 2, and even that is a bar too high for most people. Am I expected to just never game or forever DM? For the people who have some weird stigma about paying DMs, what's your actual solution for someone who just wants to play and have a reasonable expectation that the game won't fizzle out after 2 sessions or that the DM won't have the requisite rules knowledge to make the system interesting?
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Jul 20, 2022 14:51
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I think regardless of if you want to use one or not it's a bit silly to attach a stigma to it, nobody's browbeating you into paying a GM.
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Jul 20, 2022 15:01
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There is an automatic stigma attached to paying for any kind of social engagement, on the basis of "well, if s/he got on better with people, s/he wouldn't need to pay."
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Jul 20, 2022 15:31
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hyphz posted:There is an automatic stigma attached to paying for any kind of social engagement, on the basis of "well, if s/he got on better with people, s/he wouldn't need to pay." True. I think there's enough work involved in being a DM/GM that could justify for paying for a good one, though. It's not like you're paying them just to hang out with three-five other people and eat your pizza.
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Jul 20, 2022 15:36
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Part of the hobby of RPGs for me is DMing, but I can see why someone would want to pay a GM, especially for something like 5E or Pathfinder. I've played in hundreds of con games, which is also part of the hobby for me, but that is usually with strangers.
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Jul 20, 2022 15:40
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 At the cons I go to, the DMs are paid.
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Jul 20, 2022 15:44
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Toshimo posted:
None of the GMs at cons I attend are paid. Many years, both sides of the table. You get reduced or free admission, but that's not 'paid' in my book. What cons pay their GMs?
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Jul 20, 2022 15:53
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I sometimes chuckle when remembering that the white race was actually the worst race in super racist rpg Rahowa.
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Jul 20, 2022 15:54
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No judgement on people who do, but I find the idea of playing a TTRPG with someone I'm not already friends with super uncomfortable and weird.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:04
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Terrible Opinions posted:No judgement on people who do, but I find the idea of playing a TTRPG with someone I'm not already friends with super uncomfortable and weird. In the same boat, personally - it's why I'm not playing at all currently. Life is happening too much with the group I'd normally play with, and "hey find some randoms whose sole link is that you both like the same game, who are also in a situation where they can't find friends to do anything" is... not a direction I'm especially happy going in.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:20
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Terrible Opinions posted:No judgement on people who do, but I find the idea of playing a TTRPG with someone I'm not already friends with super uncomfortable and weird. I've only played one RPG at a con with strangers; it wasn't bad but wasn't nearly as fun as it would have been with at least one person I knew. It was Sterling Hershey running some Edge of the Empire though so that was neat.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:21
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How do paid GMs handle obvious hurdles, like a character dying mid-dungeon? Like, since you're paying for a product, does a new character just teleport in or something? If I paid 20 - 40$ for a service, ate an unlucky string of crits and died, it would suck to be told I have to sit out until the other players finished.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:24
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GreenMetalSun posted:How do paid GMs handle obvious hurdles, like a character dying mid-dungeon? How does a regular GM handle it? Do you really tell your bud to go eat Cheetos and watch TV until the rest of you are done gaming? I don't even understand this question.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:27
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GreenMetalSun posted:How do paid GMs handle obvious hurdles, like a character dying mid-dungeon? You handle it like you handle death at any table. Talk about Options, reviving the character, rolling a new character etc etc. Maybe the spotlight shifts from you to the other players for a bit, until you get to a break or the next session. Like you don't get mad at the DM if anything negative happens. Like do you think that people when they pay for something instantly get weird and hyper aggro if something negative happens to their character in game(well okay some people might, but they are assholes). It's all stuff like at any table you talk about at Session Zero, and like you toss up a 5-10 minute piss break, while you and the GM talk options
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Jul 20, 2022 16:36
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I've only played one RPG at a con with strangers; it wasn't bad but wasn't nearly as fun as it would have been with at least one person I knew. I've run RPGs for strangers just fine, but playing with them feels very uncomfortable to me. I made a in-character joke about someone else's character and had them tell me that I was invalidating their narrative choices, that made the decision to never do it again very easy.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:38
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Dexo posted:until you get to a break or the next session. I mean it doesn't make me angry or anything, but I wouldn't pay to sit around in a game I'm, uh, not in.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:44
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I thought Wizards of the Coast had the Star Frontiers rights? I know some of that game's species wound up in d20 Future way back when.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:52
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Toshimo posted:For the people who have some weird stigma about paying DMs, what's your actual solution for someone who just wants to play and have a reasonable expectation that the game won't fizzle out after 2 sessions or that the DM won't have the requisite rules knowledge to make the system interesting? But the moment I remove the element that this person is enjoying my company for me from the equation, my desire to role play with them / role play at all drops below half a dozen other hobbies I enjoy. I'm a Forever GM, and right now I don't really have a table I can be a player at. And I, personally, would rather play the Arkham Horror Card Game or Gloomhaven or any board game or just have some beers and talk about nerdy movies with these people than pay a stranger to officiate for us. That's not stigma. You do you, go for it, I encourage you to do what you need to do. I don't think anybody in this thread is saying "paid GMing is gross, you shouldn't do it". I think people are saying "here's why I think it's different from free GMing" and others are saying "I don't care about those differences".
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Jul 20, 2022 17:04
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GimpInBlack posted:He's just trying not to sound like a no it all, because no one likes no it alls. No one plays with no it alls either. I want you to know that this actually hurt me.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:10
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CitizenKeen posted:I don't think anybody in this thread is saying "paid GMing is gross, you shouldn't do it". I think people are saying "here's why I think it's different from free GMing" and others are saying "I don't care about those differences". That's literally the post that started this: "Paid games are a scam" And yes, there have been multiple posters who have said directly or indirectly that they think it's "gross" and that TTRPGs are a thing you should only play with close friends (which, let's be real, is extremely gatekeeping).
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Jul 20, 2022 17:10
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Snorb posted:I thought Wizards of the Coast had the Star Frontiers rights? I know some of that game's species wound up in d20 Future way back when. They're currently in the process of suing nuTSR into a fine paste, but that takes time. I've seen speculation that this whole mess is just to make enough stink and bad publicity that WotC pays them to go away in time for the 40th anniversary of Star Frontiers to get a nostalgia re-release. I don't know if I think these idiots have that much of a coherent plan and grasp on reality though.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:11
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I've played with a ton of random strangers, all in what's at least potentially long term games because I don't like one-shots. My experience is that about 20% of them are awful to the point where they'll actively ruin the game to the point where either they leave or I'll leave. 55% of them don't actively ruin the game but are boring to the point where they're basically non-entities and the game better have something else going for it if I'm going to stick around long term, and 25% are very enjoyable players to the point where I'll make a point to try and stay in contact with them and play in other games with them. If you're doing a lot of random games you basically want to just assemble a roster of that 25% of players and then build whole groups out of them. They tend to have a lot of potential for being at least casual friends with over time too.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:12
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Accidentally unbookmarked the thread, what's the highlights since June 6th?
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Jul 20, 2022 17:14
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Toshimo posted:That's literally the post that started this: "Paid games are a scam" Fair, I must have forgotten / missed / blanked. Well, again, you do you, and I'm sorry if you feel you're being judged. Colonel Cool posted:I've played with a ton of random strangers, all in what's at least potentially long term games because I don't like one-shots. This has been my MO as well.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:14
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GreenMetalSun posted:I mean it doesn't make me angry or anything, but I wouldn't pay to sit around in a game I'm, uh, not in. Yeah man, I dunno then, You are still in the game, your character is just indisposed for a bit. But yeah, It's just not for you it seems, which is cool. I just view it as paying for the DM to prep and perform the actions a DM is required to perform for me and other players to play, those actions might sometime involve my characters death, I'm cool with that. It's not like any different than death at any table. There are sessions where I am fully alive that I might not particularly have much to do if it's a spotlight for another character. I'm cool with that, I'm not paying for the equivalent of like "hunting" where people allow you to shoot at already injured animal and take the pelt to make you feel good. I'm paying for the opportunity to have a stable opportunity to play a TTRPG. Dexo fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 17:15
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Lemniscate Blue posted:They're currently in the process of suing nuTSR into a fine paste, but that takes time. I mean, you can buy a nostalgia re-release of Star Frontiers from DTRPG right now. These dudes tried to make a retroclone without the bare figleaf of not being called Dungeons & Dragons REAL GAMER EDITION and are going to get absolutely buttfucked for it.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:17
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CitizenKeen posted:There is a status in between pro and stigma though: disinterest. I totally get why some people pay for GMs, in the same way I get why people pay for [fishing guides/sex workers/telephone psychics]. No judgement, no stigma, it makes perfect sense. now hold on just a drat second paid GMs, fishing guides, and sex workers have done nothing to deserve to get lumped in with telephone psychics 
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Jul 20, 2022 17:24
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/NoHateInGaming/status/1549479240390901760?t=u6G4A0NNrbub8u9GFuzJsQ&s=19 Oh dear Christ this is horrific. Are these people living obliviously in a white supremacist bubble or are they deliberately trying to be 'provocative'?
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Jul 20, 2022 17:25
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Ugleb posted:Oh dear Christ this is horrific. Are these people living obliviously in a white supremacist bubble or are they deliberately trying to be 'provocative'? I have bad news about overlap between these groups.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:26
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Snorb posted:I thought Wizards of the Coast had the Star Frontiers rights? I know some of that game's species wound up in d20 Future way back when. They do, and they're still selling them. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/44/Wizards-of-the-Coast/subcategory/9730_29173/Star-Frontiers Hilariously, that page has an "Uh some of this poo poo is racist by today's standards" blurb, which should remind us that dollar signs still trump wokeness, at least for WotC.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:34
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I think Wizards literally just blanket put that on everything that was older than 5e.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:38
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moths posted:There were absolutely some weirdos and scams before it got more mainstream. I'm particularly thinking of the professional Dungeon Master who wore his very professional (and terrifying) mask in your house. GimpInBlack posted:What's the next level beyond "mask off?" Because god drat that is some Myfarog level poo poo. I'm also confused as to how nuTSR has the rights to do Star Frontiers stuff while WotC is still selling the originals in PDF. I thought nuTSR didn't have the rights to anything but a logo.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:40
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:now hold on just a drat second Well I would never use a telephone psychic that wasn't already part of my polycule.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:40
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Halloween Jack posted:If you're talking about the OP from grognards.txt, that never became a thing. The DM Mask Guy concocted a harebrained idea to try to support his family after his father's death forced him to drop out of college. He eventually came to his senses and people in the thread gave him some useful advice on finding an entry-level job. I think before they became such a nuisance and embarrassment there was going to be a blind eye turned to Not-Star Frontiers, or even just doing supplements that mentioned the IP, but then this is what they vomited up and became a big nuisance so now they're gonna get pummeled into the ground.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:43
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Even if you were to strip out all the racism and the right-wing reactionary poo poo, it’s… a bad game riddled with typos. There’s nothing to it.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:47
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I suspect that the "what if someone dies", etc issue is also a part of the reason for paid GMs to use modules. That way, the players can at least independently verify that the GM hasn't just dropped rocks from above on their PCs.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:53
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GreenMetalSun posted:Even if you were to strip out all the racism and the right-wing reactionary poo poo, it’s… a bad game riddled with typos. There’s nothing to it.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:58
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