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Uglycat posted:Should any SS agents appear before the committee? Yes, and apparently no.
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Jul 20, 2022 20:25
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Lemming posted:I'm not sure what point you're trying to make; this is literally the kidnapping. He had to be there to confirm the results, and the plan for the coup specifically involved removing Pence so they could replace him with Grassley or whoever so they could skip using the electors and go straight to voting using the House method Uglycat posted:Should any SS agents appear before the committee?
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Jul 20, 2022 20:25
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It's funny, I bet there is an incredible volume of texts available from the rest of 2020 and 2021
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Jul 20, 2022 20:26
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mobby_6kl posted:But this is also a normal secret service operation, moving the VP to a safe location is like their whole point. The SS having "move the VP to a secure location" as SOP, and the coup relying on this happening in order to delay certification of the results and move onto the next step of the plan, can both be true.
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Jul 20, 2022 20:31
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mobby_6kl posted:But this is also a normal secret service operation, moving the VP to a safe location is like their whole point. In theory. But they deleted the loving text messages that would reveal whether they were doing it to try to protect his life or under the direction of Trump, and then slow walked investigations into what happened that day. The best case scenario is they're so loving stupid they accidentally deleted all their messaging on probably the most important days of their careers, which makes them all so incompetent they need to be fired yesterday
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Jul 20, 2022 20:32
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Fuschia tude posted:The SS having "move the VP to a secure location" as SOP, and the coup relying on this happening in order to delay certification of the results and move onto the next step of the plan, can both be true. Although... Lemming posted:In theory. But they deleted the loving text messages that would reveal whether they were doing it to try to protect his life or under the direction of Trump, and then slow walked investigations into what happened that day. The best case scenario is they're so loving stupid they accidentally deleted all their messaging on probably the most important days of their careers, which makes them all so incompetent they need to be fired yesterday
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Jul 20, 2022 20:36
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mobby_6kl posted:Yes of course, but it doesn't mean they had to be part of the conspiracy But again, from what we know, they were specifically informed multiple times that if they did not back up or retain their messages, they would be purged and lost forever: Thom12255 posted:https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1549808771249180672?t=6u8Q4vau6Abu4Cku6e-7Vg&s=19 And the simplest explanation, in my opinion, for why *literally nobody* actually went through and preserved those messages despite multiple reminders to is: Lemming posted:Seems more like a "hey guys, make sure you back up your messages! If you don't they'll be gone forever and nobody will be able to see anything you texted on the big day! Remember, there's only one point of failure, so if you don't upload them, that's it, they're gone, and nobody would be able to find them again!" It is beyond my ability to give the benefit of the doubt that they were operating in good faith and just managed to all simultaneously gently caress up completely and utterly. It seems wildly more likely that they were aware things were going to get wiped so none of them backed things up to ensure it was all deleted. I'm aware that this is the opposite side of things in that I'm believing that every single person was in on it; I'm not confident they were all direct supporters of the coup, but it seems much more likely that they were all afraid of getting caught up in the blame which indicates they were aware of what was going on, which is enough to say that yeah, they've all gotta go
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Jul 20, 2022 20:46
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It is possible all of the texts are gone. But is it likely? I honestly do not think so. It is far too easy to imagine them saved somewhere, at least once. And with NARA involved who knows what kinds of extant but hidden reasons could/would result in them being released? This is just a variation of "the truth will out" but when there is a cover-up, I think it's always just a matter of time before the cover-up fails or the world moves on and it's forgotten. The latter isn't happening here, even though it's taking longer than any of us want. Leave open the possibility it'll come out too late, of course. How many agents sent texts that actually pertain to this coup? Is it some, lots, or lots and lots and lots? Because the more people might have texted information we need, the more opportunities for discovery.
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Jul 20, 2022 20:55
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Dr. Faustus posted:It is possible all of the texts are gone. Most of the material *must* have been basically inconsequential, which is one reason why it stinks so bad that the entire deletion of everyone's records happened on 1/5 and 1/6 only. Somebody did this.
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Jul 20, 2022 21:20
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TulliusCicero posted:No, that's me being a historian. TulliusCicero posted:
These are stomach churning to read. edit: Biden made a point to surround himself with his old detail for lack of trust with anyone who was around DT. Automatic Slim fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 21:24
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Lemming posted:I'm not sure what point you're trying to make; this is literally the kidnapping. He had to be there to confirm the results, and the plan for the coup specifically involved removing Pence so they could replace him with Grassley or whoever so they could skip using the electors and go straight to voting using the House method this is extremely not how trump was planning for thins to go down, it was for pence specifically to reject the slates of electors. having an evac plan is extremely not 'kidnapping' and if it was even remotely in the ballpark of kidnapping pence would not have been able to just go 'hey i'm staying' i don't really have any point that i'm trying to make beyond understanding the facts of what happened E: also giuliani just got ordered to appear before grand jury in georgia https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-new-york-donald-trump-georgia-presidential-04b0918bde8c906fb4598220b6ee776a Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 21:32
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Herstory Begins Now posted:this is extremely not how trump was planning for thins to go down, it was for pence specifically to reject the slates of electors. having an evac plan is extremely not 'kidnapping' and if it was even remotely in the ballpark of kidnapping pence would not have been able to just go 'hey i'm staying' "Grassley replaces Pence" was also a possible plan if Pence wasn't willing to do it himself In fact, Grassley himself said at one point that Pence wasn't expected to be at the counting of the votes before hurriedly backtracking Piell fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 21:36
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I stand corrected
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Jul 20, 2022 21:39
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Piell posted:"Grassley replaces Pence" was also a possible plan if Pence wasn't willing to do it himself The Dairy Queen gambit.
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Jul 20, 2022 21:39
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the floor of the senate is a great place for some u know what
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Jul 20, 2022 21:42
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mdemone posted:Most of the material *must* have been basically inconsequential, which is one reason why it stinks so bad that the entire deletion of everyone's records happened on 1/5 and 1/6 only. I think odds of something just that bad being exposed are extremely high, but increasing over time from "who the hell knows?" today.
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Jul 20, 2022 22:28
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Xiahou Dun posted:crossing out old notes, writing "coward" and then underlining it several times Not my fault, just following counsel advice.
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Jul 20, 2022 23:08
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Lemming posted:In theory. But they deleted the loving text messages that would reveal whether they were doing it to try to protect his life or under the direction of Trump, and then slow walked investigations into what happened that day. The best case scenario is they're so loving stupid they accidentally deleted all their messaging on probably the most important days of their careers, which makes them all so incompetent they need to be fired yesterday If it helps, the director announced his retirement today. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/07/07/secret-service-director-james-murray-retirement/10007224002/ He's taking over as CEO for Snapchat, the platform where all your messages automatically delete themselves after 24 hours. And just to be clear, the USSS spokesman made sure to mention that this has "no relation at all" to the recent J6 hearings. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 23:14
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Some of you just need the word Federal tacked on in front of Wallet Inspector to extend credulity to a level that is absurd and debasing. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 20, 2022 23:23
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If the dudes who were hiring prostitutes during Presidential visits were able to get fired and not have the entire USSS collapse, we can figure out who the malicious actors are and get them removed. Absolutely they need investigated, but the entire thing hasn't reached the same 'burn it the gently caress down' state.
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Jul 20, 2022 23:35
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"Yeah, we looked everywhere for those super incriminating deleted texts, and wouldn't you know it, we can't find them. Shucks." --The Secret Service, probably
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Jul 20, 2022 23:44
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XboxPants posted:If it helps, the director announced his retirement today. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/07/07/secret-service-director-james-murray-retirement/10007224002/ Hahaha pretty good joke, almost had me th- 
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Jul 21, 2022 01:31
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mobby_6kl posted:If an organization is really corrupt then yeah it might be worthwhile just firing everyone and starting over. That said I'd wait for an investigation of what exactly happened there. We don't really have anything 100% clear other than that some messages haven't been found (yet). *sighs and closes the toxxes drawer*
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Jul 21, 2022 01:36
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Imagine if you worked for a company and the responsibility for backing up corporate emails was the responsibility of the workers. The same idiots that yell and scream to the IT department to fix their drat PC that is most assuredly broken when it turns they just didn't plug in the power cable even when asked multiple times if it's plugged in. Those people. Imagine them being responsible for backing up their emails. And that's how the USSS works apparently. God loving damnit this country I swear.
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Jul 21, 2022 01:46
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I'm not convinced the great text saga is proof that the entirety of the Secret Service has sworn eternal fealty to Donald Trump, first of his name. It strikes me more as desperate rear end covering, the actions of an organization that knows it hosed up real good.
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Jul 21, 2022 02:03
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Fighting Trousers posted:I'm not convinced the great text saga is proof that the entirety of the Secret Service has sworn eternal fealty to Donald Trump, first of his name. It strikes me more as desperate rear end covering, the actions of an organization that knows it hosed up real good. Could you point the posts you're responding to, here? I'm not sure anyone has argued the bolded bit
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Jul 21, 2022 02:32
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https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1549853583708983297
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Jul 21, 2022 02:37
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Lemming posted:Could you point the posts you're responding to, here? I'm not sure anyone has argued the bolded bit Does this count? Jaxyon posted:Guys, I dunno if having this secret police named the SS and staffed with goons loyal to a white supremacist fascist was a good idea
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Jul 21, 2022 02:39
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Charliegrs posted:Imagine if you worked for a company and the responsibility for backing up corporate emails was the responsibility of the workers. The same idiots that yell and scream to the IT department to fix their drat PC that is most assuredly broken when it turns they just didn't plug in the power cable even when asked multiple times if it's plugged in. Those people. Imagine them being responsible for backing up their emails. Not just the USSS. Not to defend them or anything but banks/traders have requirements to keep all of their digital communications with customers and even very recently some large banks have been fined hundreds of millions of dollars for being unable to produce sms and WhatsApp messages for court review. Turns out there's not currently a ton of great solutions for archiving that stuff I guess. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bank-of-america-allocates-200m-for-fines-over-off-channel-communication-qltxzgzq0 https://thestack.technology/morgan-stanley-fined-for-whatsapp-use/?amp=1 https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/17/jpmorgan-agrees-to-125-million-fine-for-letting-employees-use-whatsapp-to-evade-regulators.html A lot of this is employees using personal devices to get around that stuff being logged I guess but that's not to say it's easy to get that data even if using company hardware. Eg if using a company phone how do you ensure the employee isn't just force stopping the logging utility that runs in the background, then sending sms, deleting the message then restarting whatever logging tool you are using. Anyway a bit of a derail I guess but I thought it was an interesting problem domain
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Jul 21, 2022 02:39
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I'm frankly amazed that any of these people involved are in any way involved with the USSS at this point, pending investigation. That's not a political thing. That's a self preservation thing for Biden and his family. At the least they should be separated and given stamp licking detail in wisconsin or something,
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Jul 21, 2022 02:45
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Madkal posted:Does this count? It doesn't appear to be claiming that every single person to the last is personally swearing fealty, just that a lot of them are, which definitely seems to be the case, based on how blatantly they're obstructing the process and how important they were to pulling off the coup. It seems like a strawman to argue that anyone who thinks the situation is bad enough that it needs to be cleaned out also thinks that every single person is a storm trooper
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Jul 21, 2022 02:46
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Madkal posted:Does this count?
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Jul 21, 2022 02:53
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Lemming posted:It doesn't appear to be claiming that every single person to the last is personally swearing fealty, just that a lot of them are, which definitely seems to be the case, based on how blatantly they're obstructing the process and how important they were to pulling off the coup. It seems like a strawman to argue that anyone who thinks the situation is bad enough that it needs to be cleaned out also thinks that every single person is a storm trooper The situation is bad, but is it bad because the Secret Service has been compromised by fascists, or because it's taken organizational protectionism too far? Those are two scenarios with different remedies.
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Jul 21, 2022 02:55
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Fighting Trousers posted:The situation is bad, but is it bad because the Secret Service has been compromised by fascists, or because it's taken organizational protectionism too far? Those are two scenarios with different remedies. Its both
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Jul 21, 2022 02:56
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Tony Ornato is a pure--strain fascist for sure. Let's go with "porque no los dos?"
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Jul 21, 2022 02:57
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Fighting Trousers posted:The situation is bad, but is it bad because the Secret Service has been compromised by fascists, or because it's taken organizational protectionism too far? Those are two scenarios with different remedies. I think the risk of the first is high enough and reasonably likely enough that it's not worth giving them the benefit of the doubt, even if it's only a situation that has come to pass because of solely genuine organizational protectionism. They're doing the exact same things they would be doing if it was compromised by fascists, and the consequences of what that could mean are high enough that it's not worth the risk
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Jul 21, 2022 03:03
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https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1549919816684896256?s=20&t=mJRtl9Z4voPYfjyW9Rx7vAquote:"They're Bolsheviks," Ziegler said in the stream, referring to the far-left communists who led the Soviet Union, "so, they probably do hate the American founders and most White people in general. This is a Bolshevistic anti-White campaign. If you can't see that, your eyes are freaking closed. And so, they see me as a young Christian who they can try to basically scare, right?"
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Jul 21, 2022 03:06
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Part of the audio https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1549889767927697408
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Jul 21, 2022 03:34
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The idea that the secret service might be compromised with sympathizers runs counter to everything I've ever heard about their relationship with Trump, which was mostly that he resented their presence, tried keeping them out of the loop with everything, and preferred his own private security. I also have to believe that anyone who is obligated to follow Trump around 24/7 would be the people least likely to be motivated to keep him in that position, but that's just me.
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Jul 21, 2022 03:35
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Piell posted:https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1549919816684896256?s=20&t=mJRtl9Z4voPYfjyW9Rx7vA So, he walked out of that interview loving scared, got it.
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Jul 21, 2022 03:40
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