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I'm not mad that they're showing the masses how this went down, even if I'm skeptical about how many minds it will change. I am mad that people keep insisting I watch it, suggesting I don't have my priorities straight or dont fear trump enough. People that consume less news than I do. "It's just so important that we stop him you just have to watch it!" - what does that even mean? I already voted for the democrats, am I supposed to form a posse and start rounding up trump supporters and enablers? I already hate trump and the republican party, I know how bad and dumb they are and that they came as close as they did is an indictment against our country not some evidence that "our institutions are still strong as long as we keep voting democrat! (Or "The reasonable Republicans won't let this happen!") When I tell people things were bad before trump and that's why we got trump, they look at me like I've grown a second head, like I missed the briefing where we were assigned teams and warned against any critical thinking. Trump is apparently just some freakish manifested natural disaster that we have to deal with by -voting?- and the suggestion that any other matter is more pressing is ideological treason that exposes me as an undercover republican. I can't stress enough the dismissive condescension from comfortable establishment types when I'm not interested in breathlessly clucking about cheeseburgers getting thrown.
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Jul 23, 2022 18:46
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“Don’t you DARE tell me to watch some actual hearings happening IRL,” I say as I spend all day watching politics YouTubes and consuming all my news through Twitter personalities (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 23, 2022 18:50
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Tiny Timbs posted:“Don’t you DARE tell me to watch some actual hearings happening IRL,” I say as I spend all day watching politics YouTubes and consuming all my news through Twitter personalities I mean anything interesting will be fodder for said youtubes and twitter threads. Watching live is a function of what work someone does to pay rent, not their inherent Politicalness.
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Jul 23, 2022 19:05
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Tiny Timbs posted:“Don’t you DARE tell me to watch some actual hearings happening IRL,” I say as I spend all day watching politics YouTubes and consuming all my news through Twitter personalities I work 50+ hours a week and spend my free time helping my aging parents, reading about politics and climate apocalypse (already in progress!), and definitely smoking weed and gaming a bit when I can. What am I to gain watching these hearings that can't be summarized briefly in text? I already voted, I'm ready to loving fight. Actually, if your post was directed at me, I'm ready to fight dipshits like you too, and I'd rather internet tough guy at you than hit report because that's kind of the point. If the fasch is moments away from power, so is might is right. People taking this as the most urgent matter at hand who also expect somebody else to do something about it are not well equipped for the projected future.. btw, I spend 0 time on YouTube or social media chief, you didn't address what I said you just made a strawman to dunk on. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 23, 2022 19:06
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I actually don't know anyone who hasn't seen or kept up with the hearings, left right or center, politically interested or not. Turns out people give a poo poo, at least to find out what happened.
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Jul 23, 2022 19:13
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BRJurgis posted:I'm not mad that they're showing the masses how this went down, even if I'm skeptical about how many minds it will change. Yeah, I hear you. Could be worse though. You could be surrounded by a band of uninformed FOX News watching dittoheads that you constantly overhear spouting right wing talking points they gleaned from Sean Hannity that week and constantly lamenting how nobody wants to work anymore. Like I typically am. As to that bolded part: it's incredible how much people have forgotten about 8 years of W - or even Reagan and Nixon for that matter. Trump is definitely a symptom and the manifestation of a RW conservative monster who was decades in the making. Trouble is, now he's the model and the prototype moving forward and the Q's and supply side Jesus gun nuts are actually getting elected. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jul 23, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 19:16
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BiggerBoat posted:Yeah, I hear you. Could be worse though. You could be surrounded by a band of uninformed FOX News watching dittoheads that you constantly overhear spouting right wing talking points they gleaned from Sean Hannity that week and constantly lamenting how nobody wants to work anymore. Like I typically am.
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Jul 23, 2022 19:23
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BiggerBoat posted:Yeah, I hear you. Could be worse though. You could be surrounded by a band of uninformed FOX News watching dittoheads that you constantly overhear spouting right wing talking points they gleaned from Sean Hannity that week and constantly lamenting how nobody wants to work anymore. Like I typically am. To be fair though, if we are asking why people who aren't voting republican/conservative why this is important, telling them that Bush/Nixon/Reagan were awful isn't going to move the needle. They agree with you. It's either talking to the disinterested who are either surviving or protected by the system about why this is important or certain leftists who know what happened and don't care because it doesn't change anything fundamentally. Why is this important and what could/would change if we know this?
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Jul 23, 2022 19:34
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https://twitter.com/d_l_mayfield/status/1550166837463109632 https://twitter.com/samthielman/status/1550592965357215746 To anyone who has had to sever from a family member in recent years: It's working. They're afraid. Keep it up. I'm proud of you.
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Jul 23, 2022 20:03
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Mooseontheloose posted:To be fair though, if we are asking why people who aren't voting republican/conservative why this is important, telling them that Bush/Nixon/Reagan were awful isn't going to move the needle. They agree with you. It's either talking to the disinterested who are either surviving or protected by the system about why this is important or certain leftists who know what happened and don't care because it doesn't change anything fundamentally. Why is this important and what could/would change if we know this? I agree. I personally think 1/6 is very important and will be taught in history classes moving forward when my kid has kids or maybe when he reaches college age. Exactly HOW it's taught is going to be determined by whoever "wins" whatever you want to call this poo poo show we're collectively fighting about for the last remaining heartbeat of the United States while we're fully in on the late stage capitalism phase of the grand experiment. Not us here on the forums (fighting) but just in general. I think most people would agree there is some sort of "fight" happening for what remains of America's soul and what hope looks like these days. But I'll stop short when it comes to lecturing people or calling them out about what they should or should not watch (or read or vote for or whatever) and what they think might be important to know on any given day. I guess I just wish the electorate had longer memories because the bulk of this goes back to Goldwater.
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Jul 23, 2022 20:20
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What's there to watch? Documentation that he's guilty as all gently caress and actually, for reals did the thing? Yeah no poo poo. Everyone saw it. It happened live on national television. He spent months publicly making it happen. He's still encouraging it right now. Loudly and proudly. The only people arguing the point are full-of-poo poo fascist propaganda mouth pieces that don't even believe their own lies while proving the Sartre quote about antisemites true every single day. Everything else is culture war bullshit that is just used to identify and attack the "other". Until there's consequences for the ring leaders it's useless kabuki theater stepping stones on the path to decline as a nation.
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Jul 23, 2022 21:18
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I don't think the hearings are particularly for people on the left, or even dems really. Like maybe a bit insofar as investigating trump is red meat for mainstream dems, but that's pretty secondary. Intended audience is pretty clearly independents and conservatives. I don't think it's really expected to penetrate significantly into the far right either.
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Jul 23, 2022 22:31
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I don't think the hearings are particularly for people on the left, or even dems really. Like maybe a bit insofar as investigating trump is red meat for mainstream dems, but that's pretty secondary. Intended audience is pretty clearly independents and conservatives. I don't think it's really expected to penetrate significantly into the far right either. IMO the key point is there being actual consequences for the ringleaders, especially Trump himself. Without those conservatives will just feel vindicated that powerful deep state forces tried to take down our hero but his love of the flag and our troops prevailed, and independants will largely just see it as theater.
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Jul 23, 2022 22:45
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I don't think the hearings are particularly for people on the left, or even dems really. Like maybe a bit insofar as investigating trump is red meat for mainstream dems, but that's pretty secondary. Intended audience is pretty clearly independents and conservatives. I don't think it's really expected to penetrate significantly into the far right either. They are absolutely for the Democrats, they show that their elected representatives are going after Trump. If it weren't for the hearings, what the gently caress would Congressional dems have to point to to say that they're doing their jobs? It's honestly not that far removed from Congressional Republicans passing a bill to repeal Obamacare fifty times. It's pure political theater that accomplishes nothing but signals to the base that they're on their side and fighting the good fight.
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Jul 24, 2022 02:15
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Gonna be a real blast when Republicans take back the house and send out articles of impeachment every three or four months. Really looking forward to the hooting baboons cheering on their representatives in 'owning the libs'.
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Jul 24, 2022 02:24
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Gripweed posted:They are absolutely for the Democrats, they show that their elected representatives are going after Trump. If it weren't for the hearings, what the gently caress would Congressional dems have to point to to say that they're doing their jobs? It's honestly not that far removed from Congressional Republicans passing a bill to repeal Obamacare fifty times. It's pure political theater that accomplishes nothing but signals to the base that they're on their side and fighting the good fight. Gripweed, you ever actually investigate anything? You are conflating poo poo in a sock with an actual inquiry to document a real event. This is also sophistry. Now this is not to say that it might also not end up pointless. Having done this if they don’t follow up with consequences it will be pointless. That said they may be leaving the barn door wide open. Most everybody that wants out I think they’re going to let out.
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Jul 24, 2022 03:48
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I think we need to sort this forum by class. It's obvious anyone making over $75k a year here is comfortable enough to actually watch and think this will matter. Okay Trump goes to jail tmw, does that mean I get healthcare, food, and a place to live now? No? Then get the gently caress out of here.
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Jul 24, 2022 05:03
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Barreft posted:I think we need to sort this forum by class. It's obvious anyone making over $75k a year here is comfortable enough to actually watch and think this will matter. A class-based moderation structure. All goons submit a copy of their W2's to Jeffrey and posters are assigned no special permissions, forum-wide IK powers, forum-wide full blue-star powers, and admin powers based on their tax brackets
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Jul 24, 2022 05:06
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Lib and let die posted:A class-based moderation structure. All goons submit a copy of their W2's to Jeffrey and posters are assigned no special permissions, forum-wide IK powers, forum-wide full blue-star powers, and admin powers based on their tax brackets America the Free baby
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Jul 24, 2022 05:34
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I mean, I can understand not watching the hearings because live things like that are rarely all that entertaining outside the highlights but it does mean you're getting your information curated by someone else. I sometimes listen to UN Security Council streams on youtube, which kind of have a similar appeal, because sometimes you get to hear the Russian dude spout novel bullshit, though it's usually the TASS line. I mean the unstated thing here is basically, the greater engagement in politics means people want their political media and entertainment to increasingly be similar. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jul 24, 2022 |
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Jul 24, 2022 12:32
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Gripweed, you ever actually investigate anything? You are conflating poo poo in a sock with an actual inquiry to document a real event. What? What does poo poo in a sock mean? But I do think you should consider real events. The Mueller Report, the impeachment, the second impeachment, and between them there were people saying "Trump might have presidential immunity now, but the second he's out of office the New York State Attorney General is gonna be all over him like poo poo in a sock!" For the past five years the Democrats' message has been "we're gonna gettem". And yet he remains stubbornly ungotten. I don't understand how someone can live through all that and still think that this one is gonna be the one to finally get him. Reasonable people can disagree on whether that's because the Democrats don't actually want to get him that badly, or if there are structural or political impediments which make getting him functionally impossible. But either way, they aren't gonna get him. They're just gonna keep saying they're gonna get him. I also don't understand who is being let out of what barn in your metaphor.
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Jul 24, 2022 13:09
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Barreft posted:I think we need to sort this forum by class. It's obvious anyone making over $75k a year here is comfortable enough to actually watch and think this will matter. you definitely aren't getting that stuff if Trump gets reelected
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Jul 24, 2022 14:30
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Oxyclean posted:you definitely aren't getting that stuff if Trump gets reelected I'm not getting it if Biden is reelected either
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Jul 24, 2022 14:41
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Gripweed posted:What? What does poo poo in a sock mean? But I do think you should consider real events. The Mueller Report, the impeachment, the second impeachment, and between them there were people saying "Trump might have presidential immunity now, but the second he's out of office the New York State Attorney General is gonna be all over him like poo poo in a sock!" For the past five years the Democrats' message has been "we're gonna gettem". And yet he remains stubbornly ungotten. I don't understand how someone can live through all that and still think that this one is gonna be the one to finally get him. He is currently under court order to be deposed by the New York AG, there's something like 11 federal investigations ongoing, and there's a grand jury seated in Georgia for his crimes there. Your statements above do not square with observable reality.
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Jul 24, 2022 14:47
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Not watching has no negative impact on my life or the proceedings so I don't watch. If I found this sort of stuff entertaining I'd probably watch but I don't. Anything that was actually putting Trump on trial might be interesting enough to watch but the necessity of it would still be very low considering again, doesn't have much day to day impact and I don't impact the outcome.
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Jul 24, 2022 14:49
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Jarmak posted:He is currently under court order to be deposed by the New York AG, there's something like 11 federal investigations ongoing, and there's a grand jury seated in Georgia for his crimes there. I think Gripweed's point was that they're burned out on "we're going to get him" when each path to getting him has gone nowhere. Telling them we're going to get him and you're not paying attention to reality is not a convincing argument against that at all. Will one of those "get him"? Maybe, but I don't think someone is not observing reality if they're telling you they're not as confident that a civil case about business finance by the New York AG isn't going to lead to Trump behind bars. I think they're just not confident after years of 
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Jul 24, 2022 15:08
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Holy poo poo. This is a new despicable low even for Matt Gaetz https://news.yahoo.com/matt-gaetz-women-look-thumb-012346149.html Matt Gaetz: Women Who 'Look Like A Thumb' Shouldn't Gripe About Abortion Rights Unattractive women who “look like a thumb” shouldn’t complain about losing abortion rights because they’re the “least” likely to get pregnant, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) said in a jaw-dropping speech to college students at a conservative conference in Florida on Saturday. “Have you watched these pro-abortion, pro-murder rallies?” Gaetz asked the crowd at the Turning Point USA Student Action Summit in Tampa. “The people are just disgusting. Why is it that the women with the least likelihood of getting pregnant are the ones most worried about having abortions?” “A few of them need to get up and march — they need to get up and march for like an hour a day. Swing those arms, get the blood pumpin’, maybe mix in a salad.” “Nobody wants to impregnate you if you look like a thumb. These people are odious from the inside out,” the congressman continued. “They’re like 5′2″, 350 pounds, and they’re like, ‘Give me my abortions or I’ll get up and march and protest.’”
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Jul 24, 2022 15:10
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BiggerBoat posted:Holy poo poo. This is a new despicable low even for Matt Gaetz Why isn't this dude in prison yet? I thought they had already flipped his friend who helped him traffic minors for sex. Maybe the time dilation I've been experiencing since covid started has warped things for me, but I thought that happened a long rear end time ago. Has there been any indication that he will actually face consequences at some point?
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Jul 24, 2022 15:20
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enahs posted:Why isn't this dude in prison yet? I thought they had already flipped his friend who helped him traffic minors for sex. Maybe the time dilation I've been experiencing since covid started has warped things for me, but I thought that happened a long rear end time ago. Has there been any indication that he will actually face consequences at some point?
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Jul 24, 2022 15:30
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bird food bathtub posted:What's there to watch? Documentation that he's guilty as all gently caress and actually, for reals did the thing? I’d say major events should be thoroughly and publicly documented, myself. Everyone will make their own choice whether to watch, like with anything else. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Jul 24, 2022 |
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Jul 24, 2022 15:54
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enahs posted:Why isn't this dude in prison yet? I thought they had already flipped his friend who helped him traffic minors for sex. Maybe the time dilation I've been experiencing since covid started has warped things for me, but I thought that happened a long rear end time ago. Has there been any indication that he will actually face consequences at some point?
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Jul 24, 2022 15:55
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Timeless Appeal posted:My bigger question is why the hell is this guy being allowed on a college campus. Better than a high school. This is Matt Gaetz we’re talking about.
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Jul 24, 2022 15:58
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Timeless Appeal posted:My bigger question is why the hell is this guy being allowed on a college campus. Most college students are over the age of 18 and so are not threatened by Gaetz
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Jul 24, 2022 16:04
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Jarmak posted:He is currently under court order to be deposed by the New York AG, there's something like 11 federal investigations ongoing, and there's a grand jury seated in Georgia for his crimes there. remind me: did anyone above sergeant rank get anything stiffer than a reprimand for Abu Ghraib, or did they all skate. to my knowledge, the only person jailed for our torture program was the journalist who let the world know it was happening, on the grounds he was a threat to national security. America has established a remarkably firm precedent that the wrongdoing of senior officials is not to be prosecuted. as such the burden of proof is on those insisting no, really, THIS time something is going to be different.
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Jul 24, 2022 16:36
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:remind me: did anyone above sergeant rank get anything stiffer than a reprimand for Abu Ghraib, or did they all skate. A good point. I just sat down and tried to come up with some names of lawmakers that ever really suffered anything larger than not being able to run or losing an election for their transgressions. Even Nixon was pardoned. Nobody went down for Iran Contra and that also went all the way to the top. Ollie North was somehow turned into a hero. During a period when the War on Drugs was a centerpiece of the Reagan administration and we were packing prisons with black people, our government agencies were literally dealing drugs and weapons to terrorists. The people who brought us the S&L crisis in the 80's not only mostly walked but, later, the same names would be found all throughout the Bush administration. No one connected to the housing/banking crash was ever frog marched into prison for it. A few of them were appointed to Obama's cabinet. Like someone else mentioned, the only people who experienced any kind of punishment for the Iraq War, the lies leading up to it and the crimes committed during it were whistle blowers and reporters. I don't expect Trump or anyone particularly high up in cahoots with him to go down either and see no reason why it's different this time.
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Jul 24, 2022 16:59
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:remind me: did anyone above sergeant rank get anything stiffer than a reprimand for Abu Ghraib, or did they all skate. Now, now. It's not like there's a presidential pardon explicitly to be abused for the sake of the status quo. Do you think we live in a context in which the biggest Medicare fraudster in history served multiple terms as a govenros and is now in the senate?? Just you try playing with a toy water gun, or filming a cop, and you'll see how Justice never sleeps!
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Jul 24, 2022 17:02
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Sephyr posted:
Yeah, it's pretty effective and moves remarkably fast with minorities, people who can't afford an attorney and folks caught driving with a broken tail light and an ounce of weed in the car.
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Jul 24, 2022 18:37
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:there's a strange tension between the democratic leadership's two primary impulses baked into the hearings. on the one hand, their proposition to their base has been 'we keep you safe from Republicans,' and as such they have to present Republicans as the existential threat to democracy they are absolutely trying to be. If I had to guess, I'd say that what a lot of donors want is to just have the "old GOP" back. It's just that trying to convince the leopards to do slightly less face biting, is a great way for the corporate political lever pullers to find out they're not as omnipotent as they thought.
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Jul 24, 2022 18:43
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I don't know what the "old GOP" is defined as but, sure. Compared to what they get up to NOW? I'd gladly take the plain old grumpy old white rich guy party that occasionally pays lip service to Jesus here and there over whatever the gently caress this is supposed to be.
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Jul 24, 2022 19:55
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Flying-PCP posted:If I had to guess, I'd say that what a lot of donors want is to just have the "old GOP" back. It's just that trying to convince the leopards to do slightly less face biting, is a great way for the corporate political lever pullers to find out they're not as omnipotent as they thought. trying to remember who made the observation, but I liked it: "the current policy objective of the democratic party is to return to the year 1993 by whatever means possible." centrist pundits keep floating the idea of a Sister Souljah moment redux, a grand symbolic rejection of those icky minorities they think are dragging the ticket down, in a kind of cargo-cult of the last time they could believe their model worked. it's a bizarre thing to advocate for, but it's explained ably by the observation it's the only thing they -can- advocate for. because if the Republicans are opponents to be fought, and not partners to be compromised with, all those 'pragmatic sacrifices' were just acts of torture committed by cowards, that won their performers nothing. and centrism that does not deliver results is just conflict aversion with a norms obsession. so they have to believe that one last compromise with the right will bring back 1993, because otherwise their entire political project is now meaningless.
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Jul 24, 2022 20:06
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