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AnEdgelord posted:https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1551568073274134528?t=hjvzWTC4-z1nM4vG7bzwQw&s=19 Shilling for Tamurkhan but I just don't know what is going to be that different between Festus and Ku'gath. Heck what's different between Azazel and N'kari besides size? Chorfs! My kingdom for hats! Edit: Well that's what I get for posting before refreshing the new post. Aurubin fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Jul 25, 2022 |
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Jul 25, 2022 16:43
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sexpig by night posted:yea from fairly casually farting around with chaos stuff as I wait for IE next month that's been my biggest feeling. Khorne is fine (duh), Nurgle is boring but fine with its 'all anvil no hammer' builds and all, but boy do the other two gods REALLY show how painful a lack of reliable tarpit front line guys can be. Like, horrors with barriers help a lot but I can't wait for them to just have proper frontliners. Like I said earlier, I'd love for Daemons to get the logical opposite treatment as Warriors get for immortal empires - namely that they can take a limited amount of WoC units to bolster themselves, but limited to like 3-4 cards. Let slaneesh and tzeench take a couple units of chaos warriors (or even marauder champions, since they pull regular marauders) to give them a proper anvil, let nurgle take some chaos knights for a proper hammer unit. Give khorne access to maybe like, marauder hunters / horse riders to give them a bit of skirmish presence. Edit - I broke down and finally bought warhams 3 last night. Figured even though it's bad I'll play through the base campaign once or twice before immortal empires hit. Trying to decide if I want to do my first campaign as ogres or Slaanesh DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jul 25, 2022 |
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Jul 25, 2022 16:50
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Goons I have a shameful admission to make: I only just now realized that cultists of Slaanesh can give out marks of Slaanesh. I am dumb. 
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Jul 25, 2022 17:03
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DeathSandwich posted:Trying to decide if I want to do my first campaign as ogres or Slaanesh Did they fix Slaanesh replenishment? Last time I tried that faction it was unplayably bad unless you had perfect micro. 1-2% replenishment each turn with no way to really improve it is not ok.
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Jul 25, 2022 17:25
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Aurubin posted:Shilling for Tamurkhan but I just don't know what is going to be that different between Festus and Ku'gath. Heck what's different between Azazel and N'kari besides size? This is an issue more broadly with Chaos characters (especially daemons), they're often so one-dimensional and indistinguishable. They're written as these big scary threats, but with no characterization. At least Valkia stands out from the pack of other Khorne champions
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Jul 25, 2022 17:27
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KPC_Mammon posted:Did they fix Slaanesh replenishment? Last time I tried that faction it was unplayably bad unless you had perfect micro. Its still pretty bad tbh
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Jul 25, 2022 17:29
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i had zero problems with it, but I think replenishment is WAY too overtuned, i wasn't kidding about giving it a cost to use.
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Jul 25, 2022 17:35
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Tiler Kiwi posted:i had zero problems with it, but I think replenishment is WAY too overtuned, i wasn't kidding about giving it a cost to use. Wouldn't that make ranged even more powerful? Ammo's free and replenishes 100%
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Jul 25, 2022 17:44
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Yeah, Slaanesh replenishment is BETTER, but unless your micro is flawless you can expect to spend several turns after absolutely every single battle replenishing and/or wishing you could do so. I installed Gejnor's mod that adds replenishment to one of the pleasurable acts and, although it helps immensely, even that isn't enough. You take so many losses in every battle that you end up spending at least two or more replenishing. It's kind of silly. Fortunately you can just fling disciple armies at your problems all day long without issue. Meanwhile I have so many cultists that I can't possibly spend them all. Disciple armies all over the place, and I still can't spend cultists fast enough. I have dominated Zhao Ming, Miao Ying and Katarin are close, Karl and Toddy are coming around... eventually this whole drat map is going to be my vassals. Slaanesh is a lot more fun than I originally anticipated. I kinda want to play Azazel now.
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Jul 25, 2022 17:45
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gently caress. Quote is not edit.
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Jul 25, 2022 17:46
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Gort posted:Wouldn't that make ranged even more powerful? Ammo's free and replenishes 100% Ammo having to replenish is one of my most wanted campaign changes.
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Jul 25, 2022 17:50
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ranged is always going to be powerful because the ai is very dumb e: what i probably hate most about replenishment is it makes you micro around based on not getting the last twelve idiots in a unit killed. if they do then you have to pay more and stand still for x turns to get a not experienced unit back. just either give them back for free like in 3k or make all replenishment work that way, thank you Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jul 25, 2022 |
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Jul 25, 2022 17:53
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Grumio posted:This is an issue more broadly with Chaos characters (especially daemons), they're often so one-dimensional and indistinguishable. They're written as these big scary threats, but with no characterization. At least Valkia stands out from the pack of other Khorne champions Honestly it’s not even a problem with Chaos necessarily. It’s mostly Nurgle. Most Chaos Gods have no real problem having variety in characterization for their champions. Sigvald and Azazel have a very different voice despite both being Slaanesh. Skarbrand Skulltaker and Valkia all have distinctly different shticks. Vilitch, Kairos, and the Scribes likewise. Nurgle has a real problem where literally all of his champions are basically the same character which is to say: Nurgle but smol.
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Jul 25, 2022 17:55
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Anno posted:Ammo having to replenish is one of my most wanted campaign changes. That sounds really boring to be honest. The game has enough stuff slowing campaigns down as it is, we don’t need more reasons to sit around twiddling thumbs for ammo of all things. The campaign layer is at its best when its thin IMO.
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Jul 25, 2022 17:56
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the campaign basically has nothing to slow you down once you start rolling around turn fifteen, it's just going to feel slower due to scaling making each new territory feel less and less significant e: also the turns just taking longer to do Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jul 25, 2022 |
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Jul 25, 2022 17:58
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My issue with low replenishment is it penalizes you for close fights with powerful opponents, aka why I play these games. Rolling over a bunch of easy fights is boring as hell. I'd much rather replenishment be massive and the ai gets lots of well balanced stacks than what currently happens.
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Jul 25, 2022 18:01
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Dandywalken posted:Its still pretty bad tbh Ogres it is then!
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Jul 25, 2022 18:06
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Yeah, having dogshit replenishment like Slaanesh right now means you actively avoid the interesting fights if at all possible, because -- while you might win -- you're going to have to spend multiple turns merging, recruiting, and replenishing. It's basically a fun tax.
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Jul 25, 2022 18:07
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like i said i have had absolutely no problems with slaanesh replenishment. there has never been a point where I shied away from a battle because I was ever worried about replenishment, either. hell you can get upkeep free armies to send out to die consequence free, at basically zero cost once you get your disciple income up. if you get antsy about waiting two or three turns you can just hit that button instead.
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Jul 25, 2022 18:14
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When I played Slaanesh (before the patch that slightly boosted replenishment) I used the mod that gives you 1% replenishment for each 10 Slaanesh corruption in the area and had zero issues with replenishment. Generally got 9 - 10% bonus in defensive battles and 4 - 7% when invading.
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Jul 25, 2022 18:28
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You are slaanesh. You are excellence. You are about YOUR excellence. Marauders die. Marauders merge. Marauders replace. They are not excellence. You should never have replenishment problems because only the lord needs to replenish their health. Everyone else needs to be replaced.
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Jul 25, 2022 18:31
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If you aren't having trouble with replenishment as Slaanesh or Tzeentch you aren't being challenged during battles, at which point why bother playing?
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Jul 25, 2022 18:51
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Game fun. I mean why do people run their 10th Ikit or Empire or Dwarf "artillery/gun go boom" campaign. Also chiming in that I found Slaanesh replenishment fine, aggressively recruited to replace my marauders who were just there to die and hold while the flankers did work. Also wondering if people reporting bad replenishment are using the channel magic stance to refill winds reserves or ducking into cities for the replenishment boost? I have bad replen on Nurgle using encamp but the rest is fine.
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Jul 25, 2022 18:56
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So many people hate the idea of merge and replace that we are creating hegemony among the races where everyone is getting a hero with +replenishment
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Jul 25, 2022 19:04
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Third World Reagan posted:So many people hate the idea of merge and replace that we are creating hegemony among the races where everyone is getting a hero with +replenishment
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Jul 25, 2022 19:23
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merge + replace vs replenishment basically just amounts to a fighting tax, and is not greatly dissimilar from just having less income in the first place except that it involves more clicking.
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Jul 25, 2022 19:33
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edit: reply is not edit edit: I ask because its a game that, at its core, is about fighting big battles. I'm the kind of person that I was super OCD about picking fights and reloading to re-fight battles back in like Medieval 2 or Rome 1 because I hated taking a bunch of losses to my favorite-to-use units because I forgot about them in a melee for a few seconds or had some bad luck or something, so I love the fact that replenishment is a thing now because when playing the game, I derive my enjoyment from building an army, usually with some sort of plan or gimmick in mind, then using it. If I fight a big battle and have some fun but take a bunch of losses, my reward for executing the goal of the game (fighting big battles) is to sit on my rear end for 2+ turns either recruiting poo poo-tier replacements that are available locally, global recruiting, or replenishing. So yeah, I can merge but it might screw with my army balance by needing to recruit lower tier units with fewer chevrons or pay out the loving rear end for global replenishment where I inexplicably get no chevron boosts from certain sources because.... reasons? If CA did a better job rewarding me for merging or recruiting locally I might have less of a hardon for replenishment, but as it is it feels like Tzeentch and Slaanesh just... dont get the replenishment option and dont get better local or global recruitment to compensate, or a mechanic to help the player feel better about not having a lot of replenishment.
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Jul 25, 2022 19:50
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I mean, sure, and I get that appeal. I've found though that some of the most enjoyable battles I've had are like the one I posted last page - hopelessly outnumbered and having to make the best of what I've got. That was what I liked about my Slaanesh campaign, was just throwing what I had into combat and making the best show I can. Open your mind, friend.
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Jul 25, 2022 20:07
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I guess also in Slaanesh defense, you also have access to seduced units to be an ablative screen for your real troops too.
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Jul 25, 2022 20:16
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Third World Reagan posted:You are slaanesh. You are excellence. You are about YOUR excellence. Pretty much this. The daemon armies having glaring weaknesses meaning you have to actually play them differently is good, homorginising everything is boring.
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Jul 25, 2022 20:19
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I'd like to note that I think differences between factions is good and I like that CA adds so much variety but I think there is a difference between mechanical differences between how factions play and how the game is designed to work.Comrade Blyatlov posted:I mean, sure, and I get that appeal. I've found though that some of the most enjoyable battles I've had are like the one I posted last page - hopelessly outnumbered and having to make the best of what I've got. That was what I liked about my Slaanesh campaign, was just throwing what I had into combat and making the best show I can. Open your mind, friend. Alctel posted:The daemon armies having glaring weaknesses meaning you have to actually play them differently is good, homorginising everything is boring. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jul 25, 2022 |
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Jul 25, 2022 20:21
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:That's what some people prefer because that's what they find fun (not merging to replace units in their armies) and I think that's fine? It's a single player campaign so what's the big deal? Single player campaigns should have room for all types of players. Not just one type that find it fun and fine.
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Jul 25, 2022 20:23
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Third World Reagan posted:Single player campaigns should have room for all types of players.
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Jul 25, 2022 20:25
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Usually if I have a half dead unit I just don't field it in the battle, possibly to the point of withdrawing it off the field first thing. Yes you can make use of them but it runs into the problem I have with armies that have more than 20 units, or armies that have too many types of units, which is that I can only really manage like... I dunno... maybe six different "units" in the sense of "discrete things I have to give orders to on the field" before I find it aggravating. And a unit at low strength cannot be thrown into a blob with a bunch of similar units without risking it getting wiped out. And I am reluctant to merge stuff because then I have to spend turns sitting still and recruiting which is not interesting and also eats into the precious little time I might have to actually do something on the campaign map before I have to put out another fire somewhere. And if you're in enemy territory that's even worse because it can completely stall your attack.
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Jul 25, 2022 20:31
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i wish there was a system that let you preserve units by "dismissing" them to a global unit pool where they would replenish over a number of turns and could be re-recruited later on. rank 9 greatswords just took a beating, will take multiple turns to replenish, and i have no tier 3 barracks nearby. but instead of sitting around doing nothing they get rotated out and replaced with whatever you have banked in your reserves. instantly too, kind of like the vampires raise dead
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Jul 25, 2022 20:46
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homogenising factions can eliminate certain styles of play or challenges that some players might find interesting
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Jul 25, 2022 20:48
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OK so I did my Slaanesh play throughs awhile ago so I didn't remember offhand how "bad" the replenishment really was so I fired up N'kari, auto-resolved on the starter enemy to really get casualties, ran back to my city and took some delicious data and: my brothers in excess slaanesh has better, cheaper, faster and more useful access to replenishment than a majority of factions. Replenishment values are shown without the mirror yet, so they'd recover even faster if I put it up on the first turn of the game, which I should because nice growth bonuses! Marauder Spearmen(32 MD) are right there on T1 too, and Marauder Whipmen(42 MD at T2 vs say Black Guard with 48 MD at T4) are a simple T2 building investment away. I don't see the issues unless you're literally unwilling to stop for even a turn inside a city, even after a hard-fought battle to take a city(i.e. their 20 stack + garrison.) I know people didn't like doing it to cleanse chaos realm traits but we're getting down to Total War gameplay fundamentals. And you're on a melee only faction(a glass cannon high micro one at that), so you don't even get the ranged turtle option for no damage taken. Seconding using seduce to reduce damage you take. The enemy loses offensive output from the actual units, then you can suicide them in to ruin the enemy alpha strikes all over the front. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jul 25, 2022 |
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Jul 25, 2022 20:48
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99pct of germs posted:i wish there was a system that let you preserve units by "dismissing" them to a global unit pool where they would replenish over a number of turns and could be re-recruited later on. I finally actually did one of the realms of chaos boss battles yesterday and I found myself surprised by the systems unique to the battle (even if I didn't actually see half of them until halfway through the battle) I think they are a good system, and yes it would be interesting to adapt them to the campaign layer where you can send units back to the global recruitment pool and re-recruit them later while maintaining veterancy and stuff.
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Jul 25, 2022 20:50
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99pct of germs posted:i wish there was a system that let you preserve units by "dismissing" them to a global unit pool where they would replenish over a number of turns and could be re-recruited later on. once again 3 kingdoms solved this. Units were assigned to a lord, and when you recalled that lord the units would stick with him. This meant that you can quickly move sizable forces just by recalling and redeploying their assigned general. This also has downsides, as you have to repay the recruitment cost of said units and they start out empty and need a couple turns to build up when out on the map, but they also replenish much faster than they would otherwise, as in it'll takes 3 turns to replenish instead of 12
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Jul 25, 2022 21:01
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3K units only recruited that quickly if you didn’t move, right? Like moving your army would break the big mustering replenishment buff. Isn’t that just the same thing as taking two turns in a city?
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Jul 25, 2022 21:07
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