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Magnetic North posted:All you motherfuckers talking about taking Latin in high school are starting to make me think my American public education might not have been as good as Reagan said it was I learned Latin in high school in 
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Jul 21, 2022 14:21
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The Lone Badger posted:How about "I know that I know nothing, and am therefore the wisest of all." The teacher sighs as he unlocks the hemlock cabinet.
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Jul 21, 2022 14:49
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I learned Latin in high school in Did you have seven years of it though  That's a joke I don't mean to be a dick. But also true.
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Jul 21, 2022 15:52
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just four years, it would be weird to be in high school for seven years
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Jul 21, 2022 15:54
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yeah i had 4 years of latin in a public american high school too. it owned because all of the time you would have spent practicing speaking the language in any other language class you instead spent learning roman history
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Jul 21, 2022 16:23
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Terrible Opinions posted:It's only against specific ethnicities in a situation where physical mobility is difficult. The ethnicity bit seems a red herring. The New World is an outlier in having ethnically based slavery. A closer anology might be jizra and nobody calls that slavery. feedmegin fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jul 23, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2022 01:19
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feedmegin posted:The ethnicity bit seems a red herring. The New World is an outlier in having ethnically based slavery. A closer anology might be jizra and nobody calls that slavery. You do know you're responding to a post from 2018, right?
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Jul 23, 2022 01:35
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Silver2195 posted:You do know you're responding to a post from 2018, right? Err. My bad. Not sure how that happened 
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Jul 23, 2022 03:35
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Half of us here are responding to posters from AUC 745 so it’s not that bad.
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Jul 23, 2022 03:37
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Vahakyla posted:Half of us here are responding to posters from AUC 745 so it’s not that bad. Isn't that just one very prolific poster?
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Jul 23, 2022 03:47
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semper ubi sub ubi
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Jul 23, 2022 04:31
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ALWAYS
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Jul 23, 2022 05:25
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feedmegin posted:Err. My bad. Not sure how that happened Well, I clicked it and was reminded of the term corvee labor, which reminded me of that tablet from Babylon(? or somewhere that used cuneiform) where a scribe is complaining to the ruler that having to do corvee labor is getting in the way of teaching students and performing astrology. Which is proof that academia never changes. Does someone have the source on that one? I can't remember the exact wording.
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Jul 23, 2022 13:03
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Recently I talked to a colleague about finance and Roman finance reforms came up. For some reason I could only think of the one done by Gaius Aurelius Valerius Diokletian, and that was fairly late in Roman history. Were their any earlier attempts at reforming Rome's financial system I don't know about? Also, what did other big empires like the Chinese Empire do in terms of trying to keep their failing economies from exploding? Are there any interesting reforms in Non-Roman ancient empires?
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Jul 25, 2022 23:07
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Was re-watching HBO's Rome while isolating and it made think, did other empires keep up on the internal politics of their neighbors? Did the rulers in Persia (or whatever it was called at the time) ask for updates on the Roman civil war or did they just get news that a new guy was in charge after the dust had settled?
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Jul 25, 2022 23:56
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of course, it was critical political and military intelligence and how you choose to align/support various factions was a huge part of being in a civil wars neighbourhood.
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Jul 25, 2022 23:59
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Scuffy_1989 posted:Was re-watching HBO's Rome while isolating and it made think, did other empires keep up on the internal politics of their neighbors? Absolutely, everyone did their best to keep up on regional events. And not just their neighbors--my favorite examples of this are a few letters sent from the Chinese court to the Roman one congratulating the ascension of a new emperor, Chinese histories mentioning wars in the Roman Empire, and Theophylact Simocatta had a short but reasonably accurate description of the Northern and Southern Dynasties and Sui unification of China. News got around on the trade routes primarily, plus there were actual intelligence agents.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:06
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Scuffy_1989 posted:Was re-watching HBO's Rome while isolating and it made think, did other empires keep up on the internal politics of their neighbors? absolutely, espionage was plenty advanced by that time. in the ancient world, knowing your rivals were busy with a war meant you could mess around on the borders. the Romans and the Persians did that for centuries, with both sides leveraging advantages like succession crises and the like.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:07
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Libluini posted:Also, what did other big empires like the Chinese Empire do in terms of trying to keep their failing economies from exploding? Are there any interesting reforms in Non-Roman ancient empires? Those are actually some of the primary topics that you orient yourself around when you study Chinese history. Moreso than battles, things like the Discourses on Salt & Iron, Wang Mang's currency reforms, Hongxi's anti-mercantilism, and most famously Wang Anshi's New Policies (still generally called "The New Policies" even as they get close to 1000 years old) are the benchmark events you use to basically sum up what, in general, is going on, in the same way that in Roman history I at least got taught it in terms of "at war with Carthage" or "conquering Gaul" or "holding the borders." The only thing that I think is more of a big deal would be the major civil wars/disunification events. Wang Mang is pretty interesting one, dude was trying really hard to make things like the Zhou dynasty, but some of his understanding of that period was more myth than reality. Some reforms were interesting and potentially useful (first income tax, a tax on leaving land fallow or otherwise underused), but some were just loving stupid like issuing literally over a dozen different currencies. Attempted a policy familiar to well most landlord societies of prohibiting the sale of land (Sumeria did this frequently, for example) but was largely not able to get this to work. Ultimately caused so much poverty that he got overthrown and had his head pickled for a few hundred years. e Scuffy_1989 posted:Was re-watching HBO's Rome while isolating and it made think, did other empires keep up on the internal politics of their neighbors? Fundamentally the main method the Han used in their competitions with the Xiongnu was putting their thumb on the scale of one member or another of a given internal dispute, which required having fairly substantial knowledge of their internal politics. Pretty sure the Xiongnu returned the favor, just less successfully.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:08
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Scuffy_1989 posted:Was re-watching HBO's Rome while isolating and it made think, did other empires keep up on the internal politics of their neighbors? I finished off season 1 rewatch tonight. Pullo and vorenus are such messes. I kind of wish they had stretched them to the birth of Jesus just so when they announce the virgin birth the pair of them would side eye each other again
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Jul 26, 2022 00:16
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ilmucche posted:I finished off season 1 rewatch tonight. Pullo and vorenus are such messes. I kind of wish they had stretched them to the birth of Jesus just so when they announce the virgin birth the pair of them would side eye each other again First season was good, the 2nd season focused on those two too much compared to historical events. It felt like all the interesting characters died with Ceasar.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:26
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old pullo and old vorenus fuckin' around in judea would have been great but i'm not sure hbo was really ready to court that much controversy by giving jesus the Rome treatment
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Jul 26, 2022 00:40
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Jazerus posted:old pullo and old vorenus fuckin' around in judea would have been great but i'm not sure hbo was really ready to court that much controversy by giving jesus the Rome treatment I mean, they already had Herod the Great show up, and things like having every newborn killed are pretty HBO. Plus this was after the The Passion, and The Last Temptation of Christ, so it's not like grim and gritty Jerusalem hadn't been done. I do feel like they might have done things to cast aspersions on the Virigin Birth rather than just leaving it ambiguous. And Vorenus and Pullo would both have been old as hell unless they really played around with the time line. And who would they get to play Jesus? Maybe just have him played from afar in respectful distances? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJEiDRi4Itc
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Jul 26, 2022 00:52
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Libluini posted:Were their any earlier attempts at reforming Rome's financial system I don't know about? Constantine did a rebasing of the gold coinage after the crisis of the third century had seen a ton of debasement. Alexios did one as well (effecting gold, silver, and copper coins) after the post-Manzikert political conflicts had debased the coinage to the point of uselessness. While I suspect there were also earlier ones I am not aware of them.
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Jul 26, 2022 01:54
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Jazerus posted:old pullo and old vorenus fuckin' around in judea would have been great but i'm not sure hbo was really ready to court that much controversy by giving jesus the Rome treatment id have loved more Rome, but i would have HATED some tired retelling of the Jesus story, but this time with tits.
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Jul 26, 2022 14:19
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WoodrowSkillson posted:id have loved more Rome, but i would have HATED some tired retelling of the Jesus story, but this time with tits. Would have been pretty wild if they'd have shown Jesus transitioning I agree
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Jul 26, 2022 15:03
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CoolCab posted:of course, it was critical political and military intelligence and how you choose to align/support various factions was a huge part of being in a civil wars neighbourhood. *Caesar enters the villa, takes off his caligae, slips into a pair of soccus and dons a red toga*
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Jul 26, 2022 15:04
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WoodrowSkillson posted:id have loved more Rome, but i would have HATED some tired retelling of the Jesus story, but this time with tits. "Eloi eloi lemme succthemtiddies"
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Jul 26, 2022 15:48
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Brawnfire posted:"Eloi eloi lemme succthemtiddies" 
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Jul 26, 2022 15:51
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It probably wouldn't have been as historically accurate as Life of Brian
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Jul 26, 2022 16:19
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Speaking of currency, do we know of any older events analogous to the decimalisation of the pound sterling? I’m aware the Romans for example issued new types of coins on the reg but as far as I know they were generally new denominations of a familiar smaller unit.
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Jul 26, 2022 19:25
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the yeti posted:Speaking of currency, do we know of any older events analogous to the decimalisation of the pound sterling? Wasn't decimalization just new denominations of a familiar larger unit, or am I missing your point? ...and if I am, how about Chinese unification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_currency#Unification or the Peter the Great ruble? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruble#Imperial_ruble ulmont fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jul 27, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 01:05
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ulmont posted:Wasn't decimalization just new denominations of a familiar larger unit, or am I missing your point? Here, see this handy chart to see what pre-decimal British currency looked like
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Jul 27, 2022 16:48
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MikeCrotch posted:Here, see this handy chart to see what pre-decimal British currency looked like  Terry Pratchett posted:Two farthings = One Ha'penny. Two ha'pennies = One Penny. Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit. Two Thrupences = A Sixpence. Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob. Two Bob = A Florin. One Florin and One Sixpence = Half a Crown. Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note. Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies). One Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea. 
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Jul 27, 2022 16:57
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I've seen a few old PSAs for decimalization, and I knew about haypennies, but farthings and third farthings is nuts. I think a lot of the complication of predecimal currency comes from the fact that to a lot of people, the coin doesn't represent some abstract underlying value, the physical coin itself is the value, and it may have a relationship with other coins, but the coin is an entity in itself rather than a representative of a greater entity. And from that perspective, there's times throughout history where people just physically split coins when they need smaller fractions of value. Like american coinage would also feel a lot more complicated (more complicated than predecimal british even) if you thought of it in terms of "five pennies is a nickel, two nickels is a dime, five nickels or two dimes and a nickel is a quarter, four quarters is a dollar". The concept of money as denominations instead of just the coins as themselves I'm not sure is a common perspective. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point people tried changing the exchange rate between separate coins, but I've never heard of it.
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Jul 27, 2022 17:14
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MikeCrotch posted:Here, see this handy chart to see what pre-decimal British currency looked like Holy crap. Quick, how many groat to a half-sovereign?
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Jul 27, 2022 17:37
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MikeCrotch posted:Here, see this handy chart to see what pre-decimal British currency looked like I’m aware, but didn’t decimalization just a) introduce a new 100 to the pound penny (and associated shilling) and b) phase out older coins as legal tender eventually? I mean, complicated yes, but it sounds conceptually like what those other examples did…
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Jul 27, 2022 17:42
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SlothfulCobra posted:I've seen a few old PSAs for decimalization, and I knew about haypennies, but farthings and third farthings is nuts. Also, for people doing all of their daily business in farthings and ha'pennies, a full sovereign may as well be a different currency. They didn't need to know about anything bigger than a shilling, and once they did, it was a conversion of shillings to pounds (or to crowns as an intermediate step), not farthings to pounds.
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Jul 27, 2022 17:48
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Cessna posted:Holy crap. 30. a groat is 1/60 of a pound so you need 30 of em to get a half a pound.
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Jul 27, 2022 17:51
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People overwhelmingly use functional units. Feels like those imperial system charts where the idea is omfg americans must live in black-and-white infomercial land, just spilling milk all over themselves and then tripping comically because how many pints are in a gallon?? Everyone wasn't slapsticking around trying to convert units. They were talking in terms they knew. Your shilling was just a meaningful piece of currency everyone knew the value of. Were it not, you'd use something else.
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Jul 27, 2022 18:05
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