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I don't care for VRChat, mind you, but I thought the audience reaction was amusing:
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Jul 25, 2022 23:41
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:.........how does one cheat at VRchat? Mods and clients. Lets people rip private avatars as well as crash other users.
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Jul 25, 2022 23:56
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Mischievous Mink posted:It lets people make the client better for free instead of overpaying for a pittance of features that are still heavily capped like saved avatars. Jim Silly-Balls posted:.........how does one cheat at VRchat? Basically this is to combat a few things it seems like. Scrapers/Rippers. This is a big issue and is only possible with modified clients. Having worlds and avatars ripped and scraped sucks. Crashers/Exploiters. Imagine hanging out in a public lobby with some friends and some dickhead comes in and crashes you all. Again, modified clients. Thats the top 2 things I can think about off hand but modified clients opens up a huge window for bullshit and they want to officially close that hole. There are some actual things that are little tweaks like IK stuff for trackers and poo poo that will get hit with this as well. It sucks but liiiiiiiike what do you do here? Continue to allow the exploiting of things or do something about it?
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Jul 25, 2022 23:59
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Turin Turambar posted:I don't care for VRChat, mind you, but I thought the audience reaction was amusing: If you sort reviews by newest, they are all people with over 1000 hours doing various 'welp fun while it lasted, devs killed game' to 'why would you do this' to 'canceled my sub' to a couple 'im on linux lol'. All negative. I've peaked into VR chat but never got into it, but I do understand mods make the game what it is. Killing the creative community is like Bethesda removing modding from Skyrim. Suppose if there is no player base there will be less harassment I guess! Seems like a quick fix that probably won't fix the base problem, dickheads.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:01
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KakerMix posted:If you sort reviews by newest, they are all people with over 1000 hours doing various 'welp fun while it lasted, devs killed game' to 'why would you do this' to 'canceled my sub' Every single one of them will keep playing.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:07
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So vr chat has an aol punter problem lol It really is like living in the 90s of tech
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Jul 26, 2022 00:16
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EbolaIvory posted:Every single one of them will keep playing. Suppose we'll see what the player count does.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:54
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Lemming posted:Yeah, those numbers are not what I'd expect. I share the total number of online players for Gorilla Tag, and right now the total CCU is about 21,000 (a bot lists those numbers here https://data.gorillatag.co.uk/?stats=1). On Steam, you can see that there are about 500 people (https://vrlfg.net/players/1533390) total playing right now. You completely missed the point of my post in order to use it as a jumping off point to humble brag. Impressive.
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Jul 26, 2022 01:07
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Gorilla Tag is impressive, almost sublime Way to go lemming!
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Jul 26, 2022 01:26
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KakerMix posted:If you sort reviews by newest, they are all people with over 1000 hours doing various 'welp fun while it lasted, devs killed game' to 'why would you do this' to 'canceled my sub' to a couple 'im on linux lol'. All negative. It's not really a "mods make the game what it is" situation that much. Like, custom avatars and worlds are uploaded through VRChat's official SDK via Unity, so none of that would count as modding. What may count as modding are the third party addons that people to use to fly around or sit in midair when they are using full body tracking. And like Ebola said, rippers and people who crash clients and stuff.
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Jul 26, 2022 01:29
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Which is none, in my case! Beastie posted:I think a ton of the appeal of stuff like Guitar Hero was it had songs practically everyone knew. I listen to a ton of music and had never heard of any of the artists on the base game of BeatSaber. Beat Saber is also my goto 100% because of the modded songs. But holy poo poo are you not kidding at the the loving anime stuff. I'm surprised at the lack of 90s stuff on BeastSaber/BeatSaver. I think I actually have more 80's songs than 90's downloaded. I also have a loving rad dance remix of Jolene that rules. I haven't had any luck finding classical music, I actually wish the Fantasia game for the Kinect could have been ported over. Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Synth Riders for me. The modding scene is really good as well, I'm currently trying to conquer Fur Elise Nightmare, which is aptly named. You have a good walk through for modding? I love that Synth Riders had an actual entire electroswing category, but I'd like to find some other songs. Edit: Oh yeah, reading over the gpu chat from earlier, my laptop's 3050 should be more than fine, so I probably just had some hosed up settings.
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Jul 26, 2022 01:37
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StarkRavingMad posted:It's not really a "mods make the game what it is" situation that much. Like, custom avatars and worlds are uploaded through VRChat's official SDK via Unity, so none of that would count as modding. Don't even need a mod to sit in midair with fullbody tracking. That's just a SteamVR overlay app.
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Jul 26, 2022 01:38
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A lot of the community backlash right now is around the more benign stuff IE tools used by the deaf and hard of hearing to make the game more accessible are bannable mods now. Made doubly funny by the fact that devs of the more destructive clients are already reporting that they had bypasses for EAC within about an hour of the beta update launching, so this won't even help in regards to mitigating stuff like crashing, griefing and ripping like they're hoping it will.
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Jul 26, 2022 02:16
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KakerMix posted:Suppose we'll see what the player count does. Same poo poo happened when VRChat started banning people they knew were using modded clients. Outrage, bla bla, back to normal usage.
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Jul 26, 2022 02:57
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Honestly the only reason I'm against this update is the accessibly mods for disabled folks that probably won't be integrated into the game anytime soon.
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Jul 26, 2022 03:12
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Kazy posted:Honestly the only reason I'm against this update is the accessibly mods for disabled folks that probably won't be integrated into the game anytime soon. This is fair and I agree. This is a huge problem in VR in general.
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Jul 26, 2022 03:15
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Beastie posted:My nephew put a huge scuff on my Oculus controller because of Gorilla Tag. I was visiting my brother and the kids were beyond excited to finally try it out. I supervised for like 5 minutes before I left the room. 20 minutes later I hear the sound of what is clearly plastic being fisted onto drywall. I actually had to uninstall it when they are around because they love it so much they just cannot contain themselves. Lmao, I really suggest the mat approach (put a mat on the floor, and tape it down so it doesn't move. Place the mat such that as long as you're standing on it, you can't reach anything. This should keep you safe since you can just tell with your feet where you are and whether you've moved into the danger zone). Glad they enjoy it! Kwolok posted:You completely missed the point of my post in order to use it as a jumping off point to humble brag. Impressive. Dude, you were explicitly accusing them of misrepresenting their income and attributing the differential to being paid by Oculus to make something exclusive. I'm giving you a concrete example (as concrete as I can, anyway) of a case where you can interpret what is probably going on, and the only reason I'm using my game is because I'm not aware of any other game that shares their player counts like I do, which gives you the best apples to apples comparison
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Jul 26, 2022 03:17
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StarkRavingMad posted:It's not really a "mods make the game what it is" situation that much. Like, custom avatars and worlds are uploaded through VRChat's official SDK via Unity, so none of that would count as modding. Aside from being outside VRChat to start with, the devs explicitly stated they wouldn't affect tools like OVR Advanced Toolkit (ie; Playspace mover) and XSOverlay. No-clipping around is absolutely a modded client thing though.
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Jul 26, 2022 04:00
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Not being able to search public avatars without hunting through arcane undocumented avatar worlds is pretty garbage, but it is what it is. The fact that all the malicious loader devs are saying "yeah we already have multiple ways around Easy Anti-Cheat" and likely have proof of their hacks working on the beta version because all they did was layer EAC over the top of VRChat with no changes other than that is pretty fun. VRChat can be a weird and fun place with friends, but yeah public lobbies are absolutely a cesspool. This is the equivalent of banning people from defending themselves and also refusing to do anything substantial to stop malicious users, since one of the go-to mods people use in VRChat is stuff designed to prevent people from crashing your client or other nefarious poo poo, nevermind accessibiliy mods used by people who are deaf in order to speak or listen to others. Also the stuff about creating a safer community but doing nothing against the rampant awful predatory poo poo (child grooming) going on in there is good too. E: haven't been near Vrchat since the announcement dropped today but apparently people are going wild on busting out malicious poo poo before the headsman's axe falls. Wouldn't go on vrchat any time soon. I doubt it will stop after the EAC enabled client goes live either. Good time to find some other social space on VR to hang out, intentionally loving with VRChat to prove a point is just stupid. orange juche fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 04:35
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Lemming posted:
I'm not nor have I ever said that steam VR outsells or performs better than Oculus. My point is a developer can and should release on both platforms. OpenXR makes development for VR agnostic and easy. Sure developing for different controller inputs is non zero work but the only reason devs are releasing solely on Oculus and not on both platforms isn't because Oculus sells more, because the gain from both platforms is more than either alone but it's because Oculus is paying for exclusivity. Yes vr sales on steam are low compared to the Oculus store. So low it's pretty easy for Oculus to just cut a check that is probably much more than steam sales could ever make. Kwolok fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 05:00
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I only recently got into VR and VR Chat, but I believe some of the bigger talking points about exploits that EAC would help with... aren't actually mods. Apparently ripping avatars can be made a bit more streamlined with mods, but the real culprit is that VR Chat just creates a file in plaintext with the address for every single avatar package in your world. As in you can just go to the right folder and get the download info directly. As for crashers, I've been told almost all of them just use avatars imported into Unity with shaders specifically designed to crash others, then uploaded using VR Chat's own SDK. So people are pretty annoyed because EAC is unlikely to do much more than lower performance, and block out QoL mods that let people do completely benign things... such as edit their screenshots in-world, create client-side personal mirrors they can move around with to practice gestures, reading pronouns in someone's bio and placing them under their name in-world, a better search engine for finding new worlds, etc.
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Jul 26, 2022 05:01
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Kwolok posted:I'm not nor have I ever said that steam VR outsells or performs better than Oculus. My point is a developer can and should release on both platforms. OpenXR makes development for VR agnostic and easy. Sure developing for different controller inputs is non zero work but the only reason devs are releasing solely on Oculus and not on both platforms isn't because Oculus sells more, because the gain from both platforms is more than either alone but it's because Oculus is paying for exclusivity. Are you a VR developer? Or a developer of any kind? There's a lot more involved in supporting multiple platforms than just developing for different controller inputs. Most VR developers are doing this all on their own and supporting Steam means extra testing, extra support needs, extra menus for graphic settings, and on and on and on. It's even more of a pain if you're doing multiplayer. I'm planning to support Steam and Quest in my upcoming release but I don't have anything against developers who choose to support only the Quest store. It simplifies many things. And very few developers are being paid to be exclusive.
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Jul 26, 2022 05:10
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Ruby Prism posted:I only recently got into VR and VR Chat, but I believe some of the bigger talking points about exploits that EAC would help with... aren't actually mods. Yeah I get the desire to create a friendlier/more controlled customization community in VRChat on behalf of the devs, but like, they could do that via some sort of mod approval process that allows mod makers to only touch certain needed things to do what they want to do, along with a review process for the mods. My understanding is there's not actually a huge list of QoL mods out there, since it's primarily a social application, so it shouldn't be hard for VRChat to allocate some dev time to reviewing and curating mods to ensure they play nice. Obviously don't allow any mods that do risky functions, but stuff like adding a field for pronouns in nametags, Avatar Search (which VRChat hasn't implemented even though people have been asking for it since the beginning) and some of the performance tweaks like culling models beyond a certain distance to prevent lag would be amazing. Instead they seem to be just tossing out the baby, the bathwater, and then spiking the washbasin into the baby's forehead because why not.
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Jul 26, 2022 05:34
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TIP posted:Are you a VR developer? Or a developer of any kind? There's a lot more involved in supporting multiple platforms than just developing for different controller inputs. Yes I have done VR development. Yes I understand wanting to start a project targetting one store only. And yes that one store would make more sense to be Oculus. That being said if your title is then successful and there is demand on other platforms, the investment to do that development is fairly trivial once the product is released (assuming you structured it well and didn't just hamfist it for the one VR headset you were developing for) and you would be a fool not to. The only reason successful titles that were released on Oculus aren't coming to other platforms is because the developers either developed themselves into a corner headset support wise, or they have incentives to not release elsewhere. Kwolok fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 05:34
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I want to like vrchat so bad But it feels so incomplete and buggy sometimes. When I first got into it I spent a lot of time assuming I was doing something wrong because I couldn't find features I figured had to be there, they were so obvious. Also how about that world persistence huh? I get it that this stuff takes time, but they're apparently spending their time on adding anticheat stuff when there's so many better things to do.
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Jul 26, 2022 05:40
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BrainDance posted:I want to like vrchat so bad I cant imagine how much fun it must be if youre like 14 and lucky enough to have this poo poo
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Jul 26, 2022 05:43
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Nuts and Gum posted:I cant imagine how much fun it must be if youre like 14 and lucky enough to have this poo poo If you're 14 and in a public lobby you have a fair chance of running into a groomer. Also god help you if you have a feminine voice in a public lobby, there's a reason a lot of women just unbind the mute/unmute button on their controller and have the program set to default to muted when entering a room. I did figure out an amazing way to make friends with decent people from VRC though, just don't be a shithead. People who don't want to deal with shitheads will slide you friend requests if you're chill and don't hassle people. Regarding the basic UI/UX/usability issues with VRChat, yeah its kinda baffling some of them have persisted as long as they have with like 40 devs on staff, but hey, working search functions, stable clients, or accessibility changes are hard to make! (/s) VRchat does have its positive moments though, as illustrated here https://twitter.com/ashly_burch/status/1546195164556718080?s=20&t=tXdxgEJmhviLuMY50XV34A orange juche fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 06:06
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orange juche posted:If you're 14 and in a public lobby you have a fair chance of running into a groomer. Also god help you if you have a feminine voice in a public lobby. To be fair, it looks like a lot of that is coming, given what we've seen in their feature showcases. It's just a lot of old UI code they have to excise and rebuild. Especially with some of the new features planned. Avatar searching, in its current modded form at least, also has to die, as it's TOO good - a public avatar isn't always intended for general use, and might be a prize in a game world or just something made for a friend and only public because it was how the creator shared it with them.
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Jul 26, 2022 07:12
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Neddy Seagoon posted:To be fair, it looks like a lot of that is coming, given what we've seen in their feature showcases. It's just a lot of old UI code they have to excise and rebuild. Especially with some of the new features planned. Yeah a lot of the stuff in Avatar Search probably should go away, but I don't know how you filter access to an avatar short of giving the user you want to share it with the actual avatar files and instructions on how to upload it via the VRChat SDK and set it as private, as the ability to set like an "allowlist" on uploaded avatars is nonexistent. VRChat's development pipeline is unbelievably long, it takes them a year or 2 for something to go from dev post to implemented (except in the case of EAC apparently cause it was dropped out of the blue). If they don't already have most of the things in their feature showcase ready to go and soon, they're going to lose people to other online gathering spaces. To be fair, they probably would wind up losing most people as soon as a reasonably popular, stable alternative appears on the scene due to issues like avatar theft and crashers (neither of which are fixed by EAC), but this will accelerate the process of them losing users. The people harrassing the dev team though need to go outside and touch some loving grass, that's not the way to get anything from anyone and just shows that they're whiny children.
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Jul 26, 2022 07:47
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EAC's not actually out of the blue - Tupper mentioned in the blog post this has been in the pipeline for a while as part of their "security and fixes" tweaks. What it should do is cut down 95% of the bullshit, because most of the problem is scriptkiddies being lone dipshits with this cool client they found online. It also actually should stop a good portion of crasher avatars that use shaders, because the big trick is being able to force safety settings off to hit people with crasher avatars. Safety settings doing what they're meant to does actually work. (Keep shaders and animations off for anyone who's not a Friend, watch a public lobby's population vanish around you sometime when a crasher turns up to play). Avatar search-wise, really it's something that could be done properly by just adding a bool value to the database entry of whether it should be returned in a search or not. Maybe add some tags like Worlds have to make them more findable too for the general-public ones. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 08:06
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Have anyone played Moss Book 2, now that it released too on Quest 2? It's relatively expensive, but I got a 30% code. I would prefer to use the code on Red Matter 2 but it expires before the launch of that game.
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Jul 26, 2022 08:11
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Neddy Seagoon posted:EAC's not actually out of the blue - Tupper mentioned in the blog post this has been in the pipeline for a while as part of their "security and fixes" tweaks. What it should do is cut down 95% of the bullshit, because most of the problem is scriptkiddies being lone dipshits with this cool client they found online. It also actually should stop a good portion of crasher avatars that use shaders, because the big trick is being able to force safety settings off to hit people with crasher avatars. Safety settings doing what they're meant to does actually work. (Keep shaders and animations off for anyone who's not a Friend, watch a public lobby's population vanish around you sometime when a crasher turns up to play). EAC is like a lock on your door, it keeps honest people honest. It's not going to cut down on the horseshit that malicious folks come up with. For example the camera crash, where you could yeet your camera into someone and make them disappear (Took like 6 months to patch, modders fixed it in under a week), or Photon crashing which *still is a thing despite being around for a very long time, and people will be vulnerable to this again once the anti-cheat goes into place*, neither of those care about safety settings. Safety settings stop particle crashers and and shader crashers, but malicious folks have already worked out how to get around EAC because EAC is a solved problem for hackers, and VRChat doesn't have the dev time to combat malicious users, based on how long it takes them to patch issues that people exploit to crash other users. It stops the script kiddy who bought the 30 dollar crasher client, maybe, as there's already ways to spoof EAC validation, and if there's a financial motive to get around EAC, it will be done. Anticheat always leads to an arms race between the dev team and dedicated hackers who want the challenge of getting in, as well as financially motivated hackers who sell their hacks to people who want to cause chaos. Free clients will disappear, but within a week or so the hackers will be back, and it won't be the people who were flyhacking, but the people who destroy entire lobbies with a click, emptying out entire populated areas for the crime of being in a public instance. Is EAC a step in the right direction? Maybe, if they take a security-focused approach and are able to protect their community from malicious users, as well as promptly implementing the QoL fixes and accessibility tweaks from good mods into the client, but their history from 2017 to 2022 has been pretty freaking spotty on that. I don't hold out a lot of hope that they'd be able to pivot correctly to protect their users from malicious actors as well as implementing the fixes necessary to restore things that the blanket ban on mods has removed. orange juche fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 08:34
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Soonmot posted:You have a good walk through for modding? I love that Synth Riders had an actual entire electroswing category, but I'd like to find some other songs. No modding needed, it has folders for custom stages and songs right in the program folder. Easiest way is to go to https://synthriderz.com/ and download Noodle Manager, then you can either browse for songs through there or (better option) browse through the website and use the one click install button. Teebo is a good creator to start with, they're pretty active and occasionally update their old songs as they improve as well.
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Jul 26, 2022 08:54
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I tried out the VR-mod for Dark Souls, and it works well! Kind of... Playing it in first person-mode, it's gives an amazing new perspective on the world & enemies. I get nauseous quickly though. Would say I have pretty solid VR-legs, don't really get nauseous in vrchat for example. But in the VR-mod fr Dark Souls - I think it's something with how it feels like you get jerked around in the first person-perspective. Just fundamental to how the character moves, and it doesn't fit well trying to fit into first person.
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Jul 26, 2022 09:31
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EbolaIvory posted:This is fair and I agree. I've been unable to play VR for a few weeks because my left eye stopped working (temporary, probably) so my depth perception is shot and it's just a deeply weird experience. Day to day life is fine, I'm just clumsier, but I think the added layer of the brain/eyes tricking themselves with VR is a step too far. It has led to me wondering about this in general, for a hell of a lot of people I suspect VR is just never going to be accessible given the nature of it, but at the same time that kind of logic just gives devs an excuse to not even try
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Jul 26, 2022 13:43
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Avatar searching, in its current modded form at least, also has to die, as it's TOO good - a public avatar isn't always intended for general use, and might be a prize in a game world or just something made for a friend and only public because it was how the creator shared it with them. Well good news, the guy who ran Avatar Search took down his site and replaced it with an EAC protest page.
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Jul 26, 2022 14:19
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https://blog.playstation.com/2022/07/26/early-look-at-the-user-experience-for-playstation-vr2/
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Jul 26, 2022 16:06
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I stopped using VR chat when it decided the avatar I was using was no longer usable. It was Tommy Vercetti. I can't identify as an anime, only a doughy Italian wearing a Hawaiin shirt truly replicates me irl 
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Jul 26, 2022 16:32
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marumaru posted:https://blog.playstation.com/2022/07/26/early-look-at-the-user-experience-for-playstation-vr2/ Nice, see through mode and the guardian system from Oculus. Great features to rip off
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Jul 26, 2022 16:39
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Leal posted:I stopped using VR chat when it decided the avatar I was using was no longer usable. It was Tommy Vercetti. I can't identify as an anime, only a doughy Italian wearing a Hawaiin shirt truly replicates me irl Yet you have an anime avatar here, interesting
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Jul 26, 2022 16:39
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