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Ginette Reno posted:I'm not sure they're all the same size. That would probably vary depending on the strength of the Balrog. If we look at dragons for example Ancalagon the Black was so big his death blew up a mountain iirc but Smaug obviously was nowhere near that size. Ancalagon wasn’t that large and some of the fan art of him is so incredibly stupid. And speaking of fan art, or official art, what are some GOOD depictions of the Balrog that aren’t the John Howe/Allen Lee to Peter Jackson movies designs which are now wired into my brain.
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Jul 26, 2022 15:53
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hannibal posted:This is expanded on in the story on the Wizards in Unfinished Tales. IIRC Gandalf (Olorin) is very hesitant to go and is not the leader but Manwe tells him to go anyway. As I recall Olorin is harbouring fear about Sauron which brings him doubt and it’s for that reason in particular that Manwe encourages him to go. Saruman always had a confident streak I think, and his travels in the east might’ve been the start of his downfall I think.
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Jul 26, 2022 15:55
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My theory about Saruman’s mysterious travels in the East was that he basically went through something similar to Denethor’s character arc of discovering first hand just how strong and innumerable the forces of Sauron were and came back with the belief that the only hope that the Free People’s had was to find the Ring and use it against Sauron. And that led him down the slippery slope of where he eventually ends up.
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Jul 26, 2022 16:01
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Ancalagon wasn’t that large and some of the fan art of him is so incredibly stupid. The Ted Nasmith Balrog definitely goes more for the Shadow rather than the Flame. Ian Miller is definitely an acquired taste but his Balrog is very unique. It actually reminds me a lot of the demonic form of Angron from Warhammer 40K.
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Jul 26, 2022 16:18
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:My theory about Saruman’s mysterious travels in the East was that he basically went through something similar to Denethor’s character arc of discovering first hand just how strong and innumerable the forces of Sauron were and came back with the belief that the only hope that the Free People’s had was to find the Ring and use it against Sauron. And that led him down the slippery slope of where he eventually ends up. I certainly like this read better than the other obvious one, being "the east is inherently corruptible".
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Jul 26, 2022 16:51
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BigglesSWE posted:I certainly like this read better than the other obvious one, being "the east is inherently corruptible". That’s an especially dumb theory due to the fact that we know all the way back in Valinor that Saruman had a hair across his rear end about Gandalf being declared “the last but not the least.” He was already a dick.
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Jul 26, 2022 16:57
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:That’s an especially dumb theory due to the fact that we know all the way back in Valinor that Saruman had a hair across his rear end about Gandalf being declared “the last but not the least.” He was already a dick. Nothing good comes of people who go around with the name "cunning man" (said the homo sapiens)
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Jul 26, 2022 17:07
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hannibal posted:This is expanded on in the story on the Wizards in Unfinished Tales. IIRC Gandalf (Olorin) is very hesitant to go and is not the leader but Manwe tells him to go anyway. "Get on the loving boat, Ollie."
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Jul 26, 2022 17:43
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Rolie Polie Olórin
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Jul 26, 2022 18:02
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MrMojok posted:That draft kind of makes it sound like what he was envisioning was a Bakshi-type balrog The Balrog shows up later in the Bakshi movie in some stills illustrating Gandalf's narration of their fight, and looks much cooler. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEgHjCWeFd0
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Jul 26, 2022 18:39
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Zopotantor posted:The Balrog shows up later in the Bakshi movie in some stills illustrating Gandalf's narration of their fight, and looks much cooler. An extremely frustrating thing with the Baskshi stuff is how good it looks at times. That last shot of them riding the horses is great, e.g. The whole thing ends up being a gigantic what-if.
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Jul 26, 2022 20:19
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Hand-drawn animation is one of the most ball-achingly expensive, time-consuming, hardest forms of production ever conceived. Even a company with the size and talent pool of Disney found it onerous. It's no surprise that almost invariably anyone smaller than that who tried it either went bankrupt, had to cut corners and scale back their ambitions, or both.
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Jul 26, 2022 20:23
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Imagined posted:Hand-drawn animation is one of the most ball-achingly expensive, time-consuming, hardest forms of production ever conceived. Even a company with the size and talent pool of Disney found it onerous. It's no surprise that almost invariably anyone smaller than that who tried it either went bankrupt, had to cut corners and scale back their ambitions, or both. You forgot to mention outsourcing to North Korea.
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Jul 26, 2022 20:41
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Zopotantor posted:The Balrog shows up later in the Bakshi movie in some stills illustrating Gandalf's narration of their fight, and looks much cooler. Thanks for that, I had totally forgotten those stills. They are indeed cool. Makes the initial version of the balrog look even more ridiculous! What's the coolest non-movie portrayal of the balrog? Pls post your favorite balrog art.
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Jul 26, 2022 21:16
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MrMojok posted:Thanks for that, I had totally forgotten those stills. They are indeed cool. Makes the initial version of the balrog look even more ridiculous! It's clearly inspired by the movie portrayal, but it's still awesome: 
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Jul 27, 2022 00:45
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The aforementioned Ian Miller Balrog.
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Jul 27, 2022 00:53
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Arc Hammer posted:The aforementioned Ian Miller Balrog. Amazingly, as a balrog buff, I’ve never seen this one before. Looks almost like a combination of MC Escher and HR Geiger.
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Jul 27, 2022 00:58
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This is close to what I think the text supports 
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Jul 27, 2022 01:24
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euphronius posted:This is close to what I think the text supports Yeah that’s kinda how I picture it when I read the text.
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Jul 27, 2022 01:36
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Arc Hammer posted:The aforementioned Ian Miller Balrog. That certainly is a many-thonged whip
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Jul 27, 2022 01:53
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Arc Hammer posted:The aforementioned Ian Miller Balrog. Whoa! I like this guy’s mane
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Jul 27, 2022 02:10
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webmeister posted:That certainly is a many-thonged whip I think it deserves an upgrade to thongéd
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Jul 27, 2022 02:23
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euphronius posted:This is close to what I think the text supports That’s certainly interesting. So what would Gothmog look like?
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Jul 27, 2022 02:26
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Gothmog isn’t in lotr. Well I mean there is a Gothmog but they are a human or an orc
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Jul 27, 2022 02:27
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I looked it up and the “fact” Saruman knows Gandalf has a ring of power is from Unfinished Tales so … not really a fact in the context of Lotr imho
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Jul 27, 2022 02:33
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I know lol but Gothmog is a balrog but bigger and badder so what would he look like along those lines.
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Jul 27, 2022 02:36
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I believe it was Gothmog that was said to be “twice the stature” of an elf. e: just popped in the Fellowship Blu-ray and by my calculations, Durin’s Bane is as tall as 3.5 Galdalfs therefore he is 75% better balrog than Morgoth Non-joke e: I really like the larger size of the balrog in the film and some of the art. It just works better as far as inspiring sheer terror, and imagining the thing laying waste to armies. MrMojok fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jul 27, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 03:11
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euphronius posted:This is close to what I think the text supports That's not a balrog, that's a valarauko.
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Jul 27, 2022 06:15
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A Balrog is never too large. Nor is it too small. It is precisely the size that it means to be.
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Jul 27, 2022 07:04
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Phy posted:That's not a balrog, that's a valarauko. What's the difference? I thought valarauko was just quenya for balrog?
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Jul 27, 2022 07:23
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Staltran posted:What's the difference? I thought valarauko was just quenya for balrog? It is. It’s a combination of two words, the words for power and demon, or something like that. Same for balrog, which is two sindarin words for the same.
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Jul 27, 2022 07:47
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Valarauko! There's another contender for Best Tolkien Name, along with Taniquetil, Ancalagon, Alatariel, Rhovanion, Smaug and Ar-Pharazon. My auto correct did not like any of these
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Jul 27, 2022 08:18
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MrMojok posted:Non-joke e: I really like the larger size of the balrog in the film and some of the art. It just works better as far as inspiring sheer terror, and imagining the thing laying waste to armies. It also says something about Gandalf that he can go toe-to-toe against that while looking comparatively ordinary and frail. I'm not sure what else you could use to convey that idea visually.
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Jul 27, 2022 09:32
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Arc Hammer posted:The aforementioned Ian Miller Balrog. thats cool
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Jul 27, 2022 10:48
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Shibawanko posted:thats cool yeah 'a tolkien bestiary' is drat great book
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Jul 27, 2022 10:53
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id be exaggerating if i said id want an adaptation in that style, because it's just a bit too grotesque to be fitting, but itd be cool to have just a touch of that style, along with tolkiens own restrained style, worked into an adaptation. i guess it will never happen now though
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Jul 27, 2022 11:03
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Shibawanko posted:id be exaggerating if i said id want an adaptation in that style, because it's just a bit too grotesque to be fitting, but itd be cool to have just a touch of that style, along with tolkiens own restrained style, worked into an adaptation. i guess it will never happen now though ian miller did some art for bakshi's wizards eg. 
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Jul 27, 2022 11:53
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MrMojok posted:It is. It’s a combination of two words, the words for power and demon, or something like that. Exactly, but the "lighter" phonetics of the Quenya term seem to connote a certain gracility and elegance in my mind over the Sindarin, which I'd bet was one of Tolkien's goals with the languages. The result is that, to me, they sound like names for different but related beings, or different forms of the same being. The image posted "feels" like a closer fit to the word "valarauko", while Jackson's hulking furnace demon feels like a closer fit to "balrog". To put it another way, "balrog" sounds like a blunt instrument, "valarauko" sounds like a knife.  Balrog Valarauko
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Jul 27, 2022 12:55
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Am I correct in interpreting the pronunciation of Valarauko as "Valar-auko"?
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Jul 27, 2022 13:10
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Well the roots are "vala-rauko" so that's how I pronounce it.
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Jul 27, 2022 13:12
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