[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

see the difference between a materialist and metaphysical viewpoint? so, i was talking to someone, a leftist, who had been to prison, and we were talking about racism in the prisons. and you know what he said the number one reason for that, in his opinion?

limited resources

the more the prisoners are deprived of things, like the number of bunks to sleep in and so forth, the more racism intensifies and people start grouping up along these tribalized racial lines to fight over those resources. and depriving the prisoners of basic material needs is a means to create that division within the society of the prison as a control mechanism. it's like a more intensified version of the american society, really, or a more brutally "open" version of it "inside" the prison walls (but concealed). i think was angela davis' point as well.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 08:03

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# ? May 27, 2024 18:53

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Slavvy posted:

One more

NOW I'm going outside

If you stack enough bullshit together it becomes true.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 08:55

unwantedplatypus: Sep 6, 2012

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

see the difference between a materialist and metaphysical viewpoint? so, i was talking to someone, a leftist, who had been to prison, and we were talking about racism in the prisons. and you know what he said the number one reason for that, in his opinion?

limited resources

the more the prisoners are deprived of things, like the number of bunks to sleep in and so forth, the more racism intensifies and people start grouping up along these tribalized racial lines to fight over those resources. and depriving the prisoners of basic material needs is a means to create that division within the society of the prison as a control mechanism. it's like a more intensified version of the american society, really, or a more brutally "open" version of it "inside" the prison walls (but concealed). i think was angela davis' point as well.

I mean it�s a fair point. Having a harder life and being pressed for resources can easily make someone revert to in-group tribalism. And with the prison example, you have to have a team, skin color is the easiest thing. But there�s plenty of very comfortable Americans who are very homophobic. It is material, yes, but it is also cultural. LGBT liberation does not happen passively. Change can come from below or above, but either way it is an active process.

To their credit, most socialist countries do not punish people for having homosexual relations or transitioning gender.; which cannot be said of a lot of the global south. Nonetheless, there are areas where there are inequities such as lack of anti-discrimination laws or being barred from the institution of marriage.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:24

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

new x just dropped

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:24

Comrade Koba: Jul 2, 2007

indigi posted:

isn�t that what the Cuban communists/Castro basically said after they got their poo poo together on the issue, that they were reflexively against it because they perceived homosexuality as a western bourgeois creation

tbf this was also pretty much every western communist party well into the 1980s/90s and it's loving shameful

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:26

Okuteru: Nov 10, 2007; Choose this life you're on your own

I dunno, man. There are gay bars in most of the tier 1s. Hell, conservative rear end Beijing has two. Grindr and Chinese apps for gay hookups are a thing out here. Gender reassessment surgery is also available at the age of 20.

However, being gay was classified as a mental illness until the mid 2000s. Being trans still is. Tons of LGBT Wechat groups either disbanded or rebranded, friends of Dorothy style.

In short, China is a land of contrasts

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:29

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

No one ever said China, or any AES state, is a paradise on Earth. We can be honest about the flaws in the PRC without supporting the imperialist powers.

Unless a liberal is present, then don't be honest, engage in whataboutism and ad homs until they gently caress off.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:35

Okuteru: Nov 10, 2007; Choose this life you're on your own

What is the chairman's position on LGBT rights?

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:36

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

Xi Jinping openly identifies as a 同志, Chinese slang for a gay man.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:38

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Truga posted:

new x just dropped

X goan give it to ya

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:40

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Forceholy posted:

What is the chairman's position on LGBT rights?

He had not said anything but he didn't care about traditional family value.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:41

Cup Runneth Over: Aug 8, 2009; She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate

Mantis42 posted:

Xi Jinping openly identifies as a 同志, Chinese slang for a gay man.

lmao

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:42

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

Mantis42 posted:

No one ever said China, or any AES state, is a paradise on Earth. We can be honest about the flaws in the PRC without supporting the imperialist powers.

Unless a liberal is present, then don't be honest, engage in whataboutism and ad homs until they gently caress off.

that�s right

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:42

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

unwantedplatypus posted:

I mean it�s a fair point. Having a harder life and being pressed for resources can easily make someone revert to in-group tribalism. And with the prison example, you have to have a team, skin color is the easiest thing. But there�s plenty of very comfortable Americans who are very homophobic. It is material, yes, but it is also cultural. LGBT liberation does not happen passively. Change can come from below or above, but either way it is an active process.

To their credit, most socialist countries do not punish people for having homosexual relations or transitioning gender.; which cannot be said of a lot of the global south. Nonetheless, there are areas where there are inequities such as lack of anti-discrimination laws or being barred from the institution of marriage.

i agree. i was just making a comment that the debate on the liberal side of things where we live can be more on the abstract side of things, where if you look at a country like afghanistan as an extreme example... i don't like the taliban and they pretty much don't believe in a whole lot of stuff that i believe in, but there's no way that we're going to change things for the better there by trying to impose the correct "ideas" on the country when the vast majority of the population is illiterate and doesn't have internet access. we all know this already though but it tends to get neglected.

china is also still a developing country. things have improved a lot but there was serious poverty until very recently, and here in the U.S., i can drive 45 minutes to towns where i don't think i'd be comfortable being out to strangers right out of the gate. i think we have to talk about it in a serious and comprehensive way when zooming out on a global scale, and it's a heated issue and people get emotional and that's understandable because of the nature of it, and there are real stakes involved for people.

BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 10:32 on Jul 27, 2022

# ? Jul 27, 2022 09:43

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-only-on-ap-philippines-manila-5c4b69a7ff136b1b4654d9108c82c165

quote:

The Philippine government has scrapped a deal to purchase 16 Russian military transport helicopters due to fears of possible U.S. sanctions, Philippine officials said.

Former Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said Tuesday night he canceled the 12.7-billion-peso ($227 million) deal to acquire the Mi-17 helicopters in a decision last month that was approved by then-President Rodrigo Duterte before their terms in office ended on June 30.

�We could face sanctions,� Lorenzana told The Associated Press, describing ways Washington could express its displeasure if the Philippines proceeded with the deal due to America�s worsening conflict with Russia.

American security officials were aware of Manila�s decision and could offer similar heavy-lift helicopters for Philippine military use, he said.

After serving as defense chief under Duterte, Lorenzana has been appointed by new President Ferdinand Marcos Jr. to head a government agency in charge of transforming former military bases into business hubs.

Philippine Ambassador to Washington Jose Manuel Romualdez told The AP that the deal was canceled because Manila could face possible sanctions under a U.S. federal law called the Countering America�s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act if the helicopter deal went through.

A Philippine military official said the helicopter deal would undergo a �termination process� after the decision to cancel it was made since a contract has already been signed. The Russians can appeal but there is little room for the Philippine government to reconsider, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of a lack of authority to publicly discuss the issue.

Under the helicopter purchase agreement, which was signed in November, the first batch of the multi-purpose helicopters would have been scheduled for delivery by Russia�s Sovtechnoexport in about two years.

Asked in March if Russia�s invasion of Ukraine would affect the purchase, Lorenzana told reporters: �We do not see any likelihood of it being scrapped as of this moment� and added that �only time can tell.�

Lorenzana at the time said an initial payment had been made by the Philippines in January. It was not immediately clear what would happen to the payment after the Philippines� decision to back out of the deal.

The Russian-made helicopters could have been used for combat, search and rescue operations, and medical evacuations in the Southeast Asian archipelago, which is often lashed by typhoons and other natural disasters, Philippine officials said.

In March, the Philippines voted �yes� on a U.N. General Assembly resolution that demanded an immediate halt to Moscow�s attack on Ukraine and the withdrawal of all Russian troops. It condemned the invasion and echoed U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres�s appeal for respect of humanitarian principles to protect civilians and civilian infrastructure in Ukraine.

Duterte has expressed concern over the global impact of the Russian invasion but has not personally condemned it. When he was in office, he nurtured close ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom he once called his �idol,� and Chinese leader Xi Jinping while frequently criticizing U.S. security policies.

The Philippines is a treaty ally of Washington, which has imposed heavy sanctions aimed at pressuring Moscow to pull back from Ukraine.

The deal to acquire the Russian helicopters was among several weapons purchase agreements signed during Duterte�s final months in office.

Last February, Lorenzana signed a 32-billion-peso ($571 million) deal to acquire 32 S-70i Black Hawk helicopters from Poland-based aerospace manufacturer PZL Mielec. It was the largest military aircraft acquisition contract signed under Duterte, Philippine defense officials said..

Due to financial constraints, the Philippines has struggled for years to modernize its military, one of the most underfunded in Asia, to deal with decades-long Muslim and communist insurgencies and to defend its territories in the disputed South China Sea.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 11:23

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Ranter posted:

When they immediately start name calling "tankie" and don't actually engage with arguments nor provide anything substantial (lol just linking a Wikipedia article and nothing else) you've already established that there's no point engaging there. The auspol thread is equally bad. Just know that these people are mostly online wankers that will immediately cower and support fascism when the US starts poo poo. Focus your energy on studying theory, analyzing history and practicing revolutionary activities. Get out there and meet your fellow "tankies" they're far more attractive than those forum posters. Online libs don't understand dialectics or contradiction.

lol I started the cspam auspol thread for this very reason (getting probed). it's pretty dead tho

# ? Jul 27, 2022 11:34

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Forceholy posted:

I dunno, man. There are gay bars in most of the tier 1s. Hell, conservative rear end Beijing has two. Grindr and Chinese apps for gay hookups are a thing out here. Gender reassessment surgery is also available at the age of 20.

afaik grindr is actually banned/pulled from app stores.... because the US forced China to sell their shares in it.

Blued is still up tho (launched in China in 2012, most popular gay social media site in the world).

# ? Jul 27, 2022 11:51

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Come on, US didn't have ball to sanction India over s400 purchase, they are not going to sanction Philippines. It's just an excuse.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 12:07

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

US MIC would love to get in on the indian defense expenditure gravy train as an extra.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 12:22

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

The loving crazy part about western LGBT rights is that it's paper thin. Any amount of pressure and it falls apart and they start blaming gay sex parties for monkey pox like they did aids.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 12:47

thechosenone: Mar 21, 2009

I'm honestly thinking that there was no actual wave for LGBT rights yet, or if there was it's mostly in the preamble, and that we'll see more work as nations actually decide to come to terms with it by themselves. America if anything has been a hindrance w/r/t that topic abroad. The CCP may not yet see points in protecting LGBT people beyond allowing them to be, but I sure as hell don't see them rolling anything back, and can only imagine they would just slowly add bits in, even if it takes a while.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 13:19

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Mantis42 posted:

Unless a liberal is present, then don't be honest, engage in whataboutism and ad homs until they gently caress off.

is there polyamory in China? like a community or a culture of it

# ? Jul 27, 2022 13:55

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

indigi posted:

is there polyamory in China? like a community or a culture of it

does hong kong count?

# ? Jul 27, 2022 13:59

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

I think it would be rude to leave them out

# ? Jul 27, 2022 14:00

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

oh sorry i thought you said polygamy

# ? Jul 27, 2022 14:00

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

So news came out yesterday that Biden and Xi will zoom call on Thursday. Most interpretation is that Biden had already promised not letting Pelosi go to Taiwan, cause if Biden couldn't promise that Xi wouldn't agree to let the Zoom call go ahead as scheduled. I agree with this analysis. Kind of disappointed. I want to see PLA Su35 and Taiwanese F16 and US F35 escort around Pelosi's plane over Taiwan air space.

Another interesting point I saw someone raised is that, whoever leaked the Pelosi news to Financial Times, most likely it was someone in the know, in either Biden camp or Pelosi camp. It doesn't make sense to leak it so early. They should have leaked it after the Biden-Xi phone call. So it's possible that some faction didn't want to see Biden-Xi phone call happen, or put it in other way, didn't want to see Biden and Xi make any large tariff reconciliation.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 14:08

In Training: Jun 28, 2008

They should live stream the zoom call

# ? Jul 27, 2022 14:38

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

Already sleepy Joe is ceding ground to the perfidious Chinese.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 14:43

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

In Training posted:

They should live stream the zoom call

Do you think it will be perfect?

# ? Jul 27, 2022 14:52

Lord of Pie: Mar 2, 2007

stephenthinkpad posted:

So news came out yesterday that Biden and Xi will zoom call on Thursday. Most interpretation is that Biden had already promised not letting Pelosi go to Taiwan, cause if Biden couldn't promise that Xi wouldn't agree to let the Zoom call go ahead as scheduled. I agree with this analysis. Kind of disappointed. I want to see PLA Su35 and Taiwanese F16 and US F35 escort around Pelosi's plane over Taiwan air space.

Another interesting point I saw someone raised is that, whoever leaked the Pelosi news to Financial Times, most likely it was someone in the know, in either Biden camp or Pelosi camp. It doesn't make sense to leak it so early. They should have leaked it after the Biden-Xi phone call. So it's possible that some faction didn't want to see Biden-Xi phone call happen, or put it in other way, didn't want to see Biden and Xi make any large tariff reconciliation.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 15:10

THS2: Oct 2, 2021

you guys who are bringing up monkeypox, i don�t really get how it shouldn�t be focused on gay men - just from a public health perspective i don�t think messaging should pretend that hasn�t been the primary transmission method. as a Gay, who has sex, has a lot of gay friends,
is handsome, etc, the community where i live is really keen on getting a vaccine. someone i know actually got the dang monkeypox and it seems real lovely

i know there is a risk of this being used as a cudgel against gays, but it would also be silly to have messaging about sickle cell anemia that didnt point out race as the main risk factor

# ? Jul 27, 2022 15:25

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

THS2 posted:

you guys who are bringing up monkeypox, i don�t really get how it shouldn�t be focused on gay men - just from a public health perspective i don�t think messaging should pretend that hasn�t been the primary transmission method. as a Gay, who has sex, has a lot of gay friends,
is handsome, etc, the community where i live is really keen on getting a vaccine. someone i know actually got the dang monkeypox and it seems real lovely

i know there is a risk of this being used as a cudgel against gays, but it would also be silly to have messaging about sickle cell anemia that didnt point out race as the main risk factor

The problem with statements like "Gay and bisexual men are most at risk from monkeypox" and "the virus is overwhelmingly transmitted through sexual contact" is that it runs the possibility of people misinterpreting* that as "only gay and bisexual men are at risk", and/or "the virus is only transmitted through sexual contact", which undermines the precautionary principle, and indeed creates harmful behaviors when someone who is symptomatic with monkeypox can't get tested because the healthcare worker they're talking to straight-up cannot conceive that it could possibly ever be monkeypox... because they're a woman

___

* indeed, the phrasing I'm using is already "softened" and is not worded to claim exclusivity, but other healthcare pronouncements have gone further than that

# ? Jul 27, 2022 15:29

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

In Training posted:

They should live stream the zoom call

Xi: "You forgot the unmute yourself....press the unmute button."

# ? Jul 27, 2022 15:30

Southpaugh: May 26, 2007; Smokey Bacon

THS2 posted:

you guys who are bringing up monkeypox, i don�t really get how it shouldn�t be focused on gay men - just from a public health perspective i don�t think messaging should pretend that hasn�t been the primary transmission method. as a Gay, who has sex, has a lot of gay friends,
is handsome, etc, the community where i live is really keen on getting a vaccine. someone i know actually got the dang monkeypox and it seems real lovely

i know there is a risk of this being used as a cudgel against gays, but it would also be silly to have messaging about sickle cell anemia that didnt point out race as the main risk factor

its more because of the way the media treats gay people and the sort of coverage HIV/AIDS gets not to mention the most recent poo poo out of america about kids having monkeypox and how they must have got it from being raped by gay men.

So yeah everyone should get a vaccine for the hot new STI but the media execs who run these campaigns are evil conservative bastards who know what makes papers sell.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 15:50

Baykin: Feb 11, 2008

gradenko_2000 posted:

The problem with statements like "Gay and bisexual men are most at risk from monkeypox" and "the virus is overwhelmingly transmitted through sexual contact" is that it runs the possibility of people misinterpreting* that as "only gay and bisexual men are at risk", and/or "the virus is only transmitted through sexual contact", which undermines the precautionary principle, and indeed creates harmful behaviors when someone who is symptomatic with monkeypox can't get tested because the healthcare worker they're talking to straight-up cannot conceive that it could possibly ever be monkeypox... because they're a woman

___

* indeed, the phrasing I'm using is already "softened" and is not worded to claim exclusivity, but other healthcare pronouncements have gone further than that

there has indeed already been multiple reported (and likely far more unreported) incidents of non-gay men, women and children attempting to seek diagnosing and treatment of monkeypox in the US, only to receive that pushback that they wont be tested because they dont fit the right profile

edit: not to mention that right wingers in the US are also using that framing to now state that any children that are coming down with monkeypox are obviously being abused by gay pedophiles, which im sure isnt going to lead to anything fuckin horrible happening

Baykin has issued a correction as of 16:07 on Jul 27, 2022

# ? Jul 27, 2022 16:02

Cup Runneth Over: Aug 8, 2009; She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate

THS2 posted:

you guys who are bringing up monkeypox, i don’t really get how it shouldn’t be focused on gay men - just from a public health perspective i don’t think messaging should pretend that hasn’t been the primary transmission method. as a Gay, who has sex, has a lot of gay friends,
is handsome, etc, the community where i live is really keen on getting a vaccine. someone i know actually got the dang monkeypox and it seems real lovely

i know there is a risk of this being used as a cudgel against gays, but it would also be silly to have messaging about sickle cell anemia that didnt point out race as the main risk factor

There isn't a risk it's literally already happening. Children get this disease dude. It's a huge threat to their lives, they're the most likely to die to it. How do you think that combines with the "monkeypox is homovirus" narrative?

# ? Jul 27, 2022 16:46

THS2: Oct 2, 2021

how are most cases transmitted tho, like to what community would you target with education and vaccines to slow the overall spread of the disease? i would imagine sexually active gay men. no one seems to be advocating mass producing smallpox vaccine and inoculating the general population. thats not the solution to every disease outbreak

# ? Jul 27, 2022 17:31

ikanreed: Sep 25, 2009; I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

THS2 posted:

you guys who are bringing up monkeypox, i don’t really get how it shouldn’t be focused on gay men - just from a public health perspective i don’t think messaging should pretend that hasn’t been the primary transmission method. as a Gay, who has sex, has a lot of gay friends,
is handsome, etc, the community where i live is really keen on getting a vaccine. someone i know actually got the dang monkeypox and it seems real lovely

i know there is a risk of this being used as a cudgel against gays, but it would also be silly to have messaging about sickle cell anemia that didnt point out race as the main risk factor

Set a reminder on your phone to check back in on this post in two months, because this has a really really rapid growth rate for an STD, and an underlying transmission mechanism that isn't really super consistent with that theory.

Not saying you're wrong, but I am saying you should be ready to be wrong.

# ? Jul 27, 2022 17:37

THS2: Oct 2, 2021

i could definitely be wrong, i guess my only point is if i were a public health administrator and i had limited resources, id make it clear anyone could get it, but i would focus those resources among the people so far the most likely to get and spread the disease

# ? Jul 27, 2022 17:44

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# ? May 27, 2024 18:53

fits my needs: Jan 1, 2011; Grimey Drawer

https://twitter.com/ChinaDaily/status/1552338027099586560?s=20&t=EW8ACN6cwsn6OX5o8mXkAw

# ? Jul 27, 2022 18:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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