|
Someone should publicly ask MTG how kids get herpes, given it's an STI. I guarantee she has no idea why cold sores exist.
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 22:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:30 |
|
|
Perestroika posted:Yeah, it's absolutely mindboggling. IIRC as far as we know right now, intercourse is the one thing that isn't a vector. What exactly does this mean? Is it something very specific about what "intercourse" or "vector" means? The CDC website lists "sex" as one of the ways it spreads. https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/transmission.html quote:Monkeypox spreads in different ways. The virus can spread from person-to-person through:
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2022 00:57
|
|
|
In the same sense that chickenpox is sexually transmitted I suppose.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2022 01:01
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:In the same sense that chickenpox is sexually transmitted I suppose. OK, that's how I understood it. That is, it's disingenuous to call Monkey Pox an STI in the same way it would be for rhinovirus.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2022 01:12
|
|
|
By that standard I guess covid is a gay STI
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2022 01:16
|
|
|
They've also added "trans women who have sex with MSM" in the risk categories I'm seeing in a lot of places, which seems like an unnecessary qualification. I would assume that women, all women, who have sex with MSM, are at equal risk since it's shared by close contact, not the specific mechanics of the sexual encounter. So that's just a delightful dingleberry on top of this poo poo sundae.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2022 02:25
|
|
|
To add a bit context for folks who might be casually reading this conversation. Proud Boys have literally been storming children's read outlouds with Drag Queens, brandishing guns, and getting no consequences from the police. poo poo's bad right now in terms of queer people being targeted, especially around education and youth events.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2022 03:39
|
|
|
XboxPants posted:What exactly does this mean? Is it something very specific about what "intercourse" or "vector" means? The CDC website lists "sex" as one of the ways it spreads. https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/transmission.html Yeah, if there were a disease you could get by saying "are you sure you've done this before?" that doesn't make it an sti.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2022 03:58
|
|
|
XboxPants posted:What exactly does this mean? Is it something very specific about what "intercourse" or "vector" means? The CDC website lists "sex" as one of the ways it spreads. https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/transmission.html I meant as in specifically being spread through seminal/vaginal fluids or specifically through direct genital contact, which is the case for most "traditional" STIs. Yes, MPX can also be transmitted during sex because you're close to each other for a prolonged time, but that is true of very nearly every single infectious disease ever. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Jul 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2022 07:54
|
|
|
Perestroika posted:I meant as in specifically being spread through seminal/vaginal fluids or specifically through direct genital contact, which is the case for most "traditional" STIs. Ah gotcha, that makes sense. They could easily be more clear about that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2022 09:01
|
|
|
Ok, I just woke up and I already got banned from a stream I enjoy for having this exact discussion: What the hell is going on with the CDC and what is with them singling out gay people and monkey pox? All I want to know are where are the actual peer reviewed studies for these claims and why would it matter if LGBTQ people spread it as well? I don't understand. I'm bi and obviously this effects me, but, I don't understand what everyone is getting at. I have seen absolutely no information that says that LBTQ people are more likely to spread monkeypox. I saw one study that said that because LGBTQ people are more likely to have multiple sexual partners then that means LGBTQ people are more likely to spread monkey pox but that isn't inherently because LGBTQ have same sex more often than not and it isn't directly connected to that, but, that's how the CDC is making it seem. What the hell is going on?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 18:29
|
|
|
Cumdog Millionaire posted:Ok, I just woke up and I already got banned from a stream I enjoy for having this exact discussion: from what I can tell this false assumption is being made through a self-fulfilling prophecy because gay/bi/pan/etc. men are the only demographic being adequately tested for monkeypox
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 18:33
|
|
|
From what I can tell, vaccine supplies are limited, there is an outbreak in the gay community, and so that community is being prioritized for vaccines. Here's SF's eligibility, since I was curious https://www.ucsfhealth.org/clinics/monkeypox-vaccines-at-ucsf quote:Vaccine supplies are limited and currently available only to high-risk populations, according to the San Francisco Department of Public Health. The following people who live and work in San Francisco are eligible to receive the vaccine: If vaccine supplies are limited, and these are the groups where the outbreak is largely concentrated, then this is the approach that gives the best use of the limited resource. There does need to be a message that this isn't a "gay disease" but the eligibility listed on this site looks pretty reasonable. Regarding supplies being limited: https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/considerations-for-monkeypox-vaccination.html  There are two vaccines, one that seems to be lower risk and has limited supply, one that carries a higher risk and is available. I'm assuming someone looked at the impact of pushing out ACAM2000 now vs. waiting for additional JYNNEOS, but I can't find a good reference. Not too surprising that isn't widely published. I can see how you could get to "there are plenty of vaccine doses available but the government is stigmatizing the gay community" but it doesn't seem to be nearly that black and white.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 18:37
|
|
|
I mean I think there could be overt messeging about this "not being a gay disease " and your average /pol/ dipshit would just write it off as liberal propaganda, or, whatever. I think the issue is that, from what i have heard, is that there's a lot of problems with the delivery of the message. The message about it needs to be delivered in a way that doesn't single out gay people.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 18:54
|
|
|
Cumdog Millionaire posted:Ok, I just woke up and I already got banned from a stream I enjoy for having this exact discussion: CDC has failed to account for social prejudices in the way they've been messaging on monkey pox. It's a bad case of "saying things that are factually supported but in a way that will be used to further harm a marginalized and oppressed group". The failure is clear because there are multiple mainstream news outlets including the AP running with it as a "gay STD" when it most definitely is not at all that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 18:54
|
|
|
Almost a decade ago I used to do HIV testing and counseling as a side job and the criteria we used for getting someone on PrEP (at the time, different now) was you were MSM who had multiple or anonymous partners and/or unprotected sex, because that's simply the demographic most at risk for sexually contracting HIV. My point is, the correct public health strategy is to target the highest-risk group with your limited resources. In this case, it's "people who have sex with MSM" and in particular, people that have multiple or anonymous sex partners. I don't see "people who have sex with MSM" being used by gov't sources but it's a better (if slightly clunky) term because it includes women and non-binary people who have sexual contact with MSM. Messaging has not been very good but it's walking a fine line. You need to communicate directly to the highest-risk groups and get them tested, treated, and vaccinated. But you also need to communicate to the wider public that it's not just circulating among MSM and is transmitted by close contact and fomites (clothes, sheets, etc).
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 19:42
|
|
|
I think there are actually two issues at play for me. One is the issue that they're not being clear about the correlation and causation. This point is thoughtless because when you have what amounts to White Supremacist Taliban raiding queer spaces, you need to be more considerate. But I think there is also just an issue treating MSM communities with broad brushes. I'm just not sure that I believe that is any relevancy to naming people who have sex with men who have sex with men as showing high rate of infections. A statement like: "While Monkey Pox could not be classified as an STI, close and especially intimate physical contact with someone makes it more likely to spread. Those who have multiple sex partners or who are intimate with people with multiple sex partners should be wary" makes most sense to me. And yeah, proportionally that might represent more MSM, but the relevant parties are aware if they are having sex with multiple partners or at least if their partner MIGHT be having sex with multiple partners.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 20:53
|
|
|
Yeah, the only reason monkeypox is spreading mostly in the MSM community (I'm using this as a shorthand) is because the original outbreak was from a gay sauna in Spain. It could just as easily have started at a straight swingers' event and be spreading mainly in those social networks. Your message is a good one for the general public but you also have to communicate directly to the highest-risk communities. That's the hard part, not stigmatizing MSM or having it perceived as a "gay disease" while also doing outreach directly to the highest-risk people. To again use an example from my own experience, we operated a mobile HIV testing van in addition to fixed sites, and the van mostly went to heavily gay neighborhoods and events. Also college campuses and such, but you prioritize using your resources where there's the most risk.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 21:05
|
|
|
Fritz the Horse posted:Yeah, the only reason monkeypox is spreading mostly in the MSM community (I'm using this as a shorthand) is because the original outbreak was from a gay sauna in Spain. It could just as easily have started at a straight swingers' event and be spreading mainly in those social networks. That's what I am saying. Why the gently caress does it matter that it was a gay community where the out break started first? It doesn't.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 21:56
|
|
|
It matters when figuring out where to put limited vaccine resources. That's it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 22:00
|
|
|
Cumdog Millionaire posted:That's what I am saying. Why the gently caress does it matter that it was a gay community where the out break started first? It doesn't. Only because monkeypox spreads by close/intimate contact (or by clothing, sheets etc) and the outbreak started in a gay sauna, so it's mostly being transmitted in those social networks. In order to get testing, treatment, and vaccines to the people at most risk, you communicate directly to those people "you might be at risk, if you have these symptoms get tested/treated, if you engage in these risk activities, get vaccinated." That's somewhat different than how you message to the general public where you want to emphasize that it's not inherently a gay disease and no, kids aren't getting it because gay people are pedophiles, it's simply spread through close contact. As an example, you should absolutely be putting up posters/flyers in gay bars and clubs and setting up testing and vaccine clinics in locations where there are a lot of MSM people, putting advertisements on Grindr, etc. Because that's where most of the spread is right now, that's how you do public health outreach. Again, that's somewhat separate from messaging to the public broadly, which has not been very good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 22:14
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:It matters when figuring out where to put limited vaccine resources. That's it. That's true, but, the way the media is presenting it is making it single out gay people
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 22:38
|
|
|
By making it strongly identified as a "gay STD" it's going to actually hurt treatment because the many, many homophobes and closeted people will refuse treatment or even diagnosis and further infect people by ignoring it. So this messaging failure will likely contribute to spread. This is already an issue of closeted/"DL" bisexual men as far as HIV transmission.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 22:41
|
|
|
I am not a doctor or virologist, but keeping up with virology is a hobby I have had since pre-covid days. Monkey pox has probably been circulating for a while now being mistaken for random STIs, especially if a clinician has forgone palpating for swollen lymph nodes. If someone presents with a genital rash or pustule and someone isn’t paying close enough attention, they’ll get prescribed an antibiotic if it gets mistaken as bacterial or antivirals and a herpes lecture, and when the rash/pustules go away the clinician and patient assume the diagnosis was correct. This variant also usually presents with only one or two lesions, generally in the genital region as opposed to all over the body, and to my knowledge has killed only 5 people which is unusual given the serious nature of ordinary monkey pox (often about 5%). If anyone wants to learn more about monkey pox, SARS COV-2, or other viruses go to YouTube and listen to This Week in Virology. Here is a monkey pox specific episode from them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMiT73ycw-I Viral DNA has been found in semen, and though it was not confirmed as containing actual virus with a plaque assay there has been at least one case of transmission without direct contact with another individual or their clothes and bedding via semen contacting a patient’s eye.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 23:41
|
|
|
Fritz the Horse posted:Only because monkeypox spreads by close/intimate contact (or by clothing, sheets etc) and the outbreak started in a gay sauna, so it's mostly being transmitted in those social networks. But it's not just intimate contact in general. I think people are assuming it's specifically anal sex. I don't know if they have specific numbers for monkey pox, but HIV iirc is many times more likely to be spread through anal than through vaginal sex, due to tearing, porous tissues, etc. Again, I don't think we actually have specific data to back up this assumption, but it helps explain why there are outbreaks in gay communities. If that were true, CDC could stop saying that gay people spread it, and instead just say it's more likely to spread through anal sex, regardless of gender. But CrazySalamander posted:Viral DNA has been found in semen, and though it was not confirmed as containing actual virus with a plaque assay there has been at least one case of transmission without direct contact with another individual or their clothes and bedding via semen contacting a patient’s eye. Since they don't actually KNOW that semen is infectious, they can't really go out and say that anal sex is a big factor. So, they just have to say "MSMSM" without clearly identifying why.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 00:39
|
|
|
XboxPants posted:But it's not just intimate contact in general. I think people are assuming it's specifically anal sex. I don't know if they have specific numbers for monkey pox, but HIV iirc is many times more likely to be spread through anal than through vaginal sex, due to tearing, porous tissues, etc. Again, I don't think we actually have specific data to back up this assumption, but it helps explain why there are outbreaks in gay communities. While that's true of HIV, I haven't read anywhere that anal sex would be higher risk than vaginal, oral etc. Since monkeypox transmits just through skin-to-skin contact with lesions, it's very very different from HIV. edit: HIV has to enter through a mucous membrane or directly into the bloodstream through a cut/tear/needle, which is very different than simple skin contact. Here are some statistics: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infect...nal%20outbreak. quote:Of more than 500 infections diagnosed, predominantly in men who have sex with men (MSM), 95% presented with a rash, 73% had anogenital lesions, and 41% had mucosal lesions, reported Chloe Orkin, MD, of Queen Mary University of London, and colleagues. The lesions are often painless, commonly found in the underwear region or mouth (pretty sure what they mean by mucosal, they say oral mucosal later on), and there can be as few as one lesion. The article says that they're probably missing a lot of milder or asymptomatic cases too. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jul 28, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 00:52
|
|
|
I want to clarify that the reason that a plaque assay probably wasn’t done is that it’s way less resource intensive to stick samples in a machine rather than pay a grad student to do plaque assays. PCR has done wonders but nobody wants to spend time and money on plaque assays when journal reviewers don’t even call you out for saying “viral load” in your paper when at no point did you measure viruses, you measured dna or rna fragments with PCR.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 00:55
|
|
|
So, interesting news point is that Britain is closing down it's clinic that serves trans kids and opening up other clinics throughout the country. This is kind of a weird story. Outside of all the TERF and lovely comedian poo poo out if England, there was a whole issue awhile back in which a de-transitioned person sued the NHS which led to the idea that teens could not consent for HRT which then got overturned. It was a bit of a mess. Anyhoo, as the article mentions, this is actually mostly seen as a good thing amongst the queer community. But if you do a google search, you'll also see a lot of American sources making it sound like a good thing because the clinic is being shutdown.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 02:22
|
|
|
Yeah. Decentralizing care is good. More clinics is good. It's still not ideal, but if it means lower wait times and not having to travel as far, it's a step in the right direction.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 02:52
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Anyhoo, as the article mentions, this is actually mostly seen as a good thing amongst the queer community. But if you do a google search, you'll also see a lot of American sources making it sound like a good thing because the clinic is being shutdown. There's plenty of UK coverage doing the same of course, because our news media is chock full of terfs
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 03:00
|
|
|
All of the current prime ministerial candidates are going balls to the wall on culture war shite though, especially trans people. Would that hell were real and I could have faith they would end up in it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 03:09
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:All of the current prime ministerial candidates are going balls to the wall on culture war shite though, especially trans people. Would that hell were real and I could have faith they would end up in it. waiting for liz truss to talk about how she has a trans friend that is a proud tory any day now
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 10:20
|
|
|
Meanwhile stateside, the Florida state government which commissioned its own non-peer-reviewed studies (and took a dozen or so older studies out of context to the dismay of their authors) to go against national-level guidance from the DHS and attack trans kids predictably moved forward to attack trans adults by labeling puberty blockers, HRT, and GRS as 'not medically necessary' and therefore not to be covered under Medicaid. https://twitter.com/ErinInTheMorn/status/1558094039114825728 Goes into effect next week, and generally private insurers use what Medicare covers as their guideline for covered treatments, so this is likely to get even uglier.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2022 03:35
|
|
|
I've actually had to start weaning myself off hate following TERF brit pundits because I could actually my mental health disintegrating and quality of life lowering. https://twitter.com/francesweetman/status/1541340653044506626 I'm sorry sister but yes, you are homophobic if you are uneasy around a progress flag because it is "corrupting" the youth. I am already sorry for posting. thrashingteeth fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Aug 15, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2022 19:53
|
|
|
It is very funny to me to see other people aware of weets. She is a perennial wanker honestly, got her big break going after corbyn and has since then moved onto various other garbage positions while claiming to have very legitimate concerns and definitely not just a standard right wing oik. Think she also has a few scams where she gets people to donate her some money in exchange for doing something of immense journalistic import and then never does them. A paragon of the british media class par excellance. Her overt terfery I think is her newest fixation. Wonder if she will turn it into her entire personality or whether it's just a phase. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Aug 15, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2022 20:04
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Meanwhile stateside, the Florida state government which commissioned its own non-peer-reviewed studies (and took a dozen or so older studies out of context to the dismay of their authors) to go against national-level guidance from the DHS and attack trans kids predictably moved forward to attack trans adults by labeling puberty blockers, HRT, and GRS as 'not medically necessary' and therefore not to be covered under Medicaid. It's also insane how once again trans people are cast as loony flakes detatched from reality as our attackers again and again ignore EVERY piece of research out there besides Lisa Littman's and even her lovely research gets misinterpreted by them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2022 20:19
|
|
|
They're already threatening and prepping to attack a children's hospital in Boston, all at the behest of Libs of TikTok. We Tr*nnies are so loving detached from reality that they just GOTTA go full loving J6 on a CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2022 20:23
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:It is very funny to me to see other people aware of weets. She is my go to brain worm opinion haver. I remember thinking when the corbs is turbo Hitler gravy train ended I did think the next grift for her was TERF. She has always been a melt but I am genuinely baffled at how fast her turn to bigot went.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2022 22:27
|
|
|
It's pretty consistent among the uk liberals tbf, and I might be tempted to draw a line between their conduct on social issues and economic, which is that they immediately turn extremely conservative whenever it's something that might affect them or, in the case of social stuff, when it suggest that their personally beloved ideas might not be ideal. And of course Rowling is a perfect encapsulation of that, very stuck in a kind of performative 90's establishment attitude where it's cool to be thought of as progressive but you don't really want to actually do anything or have society change in any way. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Aug 15, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2022 22:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:30 |
|
|
lmao had to dbl check the thread when i saw weetsOwlFancier posted:It's pretty consistent among the uk liberals tbf, and I might be tempted to draw a line between their conduct on social issues and economic, which is that they immediately turn extremely conservative whenever it's something that might affect them or, in the case of social stuff, when it suggest that their personally beloved ideas might not be ideal. hard true imo
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 01:04
|
|