|
we're cool friendo. i'll leave the above post in place in case any lurker or something cares about my thoughts on this sort of thing, but clearly it's off the mark with respect to you and i mean you no offense or ill-will <3  e: what a terrible snipe, witness my shame
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2022 00:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 15:17 |
|
|
e: drat that IS a lousy snipe My take is that I have chosen my path. I never want to own a weapon, unless it is for its artistic value or something like a costume prop; I never want to strike anyone; and while I may one day have to do so in order to immediately defend myself or the vulnerable, I will regret it if I do. If circumstances ever forced me into an armed camp situation - which I doubt, but of course, I've thought about it, in no small part thanks to ideation available in long tons on this website and others - I will aid others without raising my own hand. And I will always hope for peace, and praise peace; and I will regret violence, even when it is in self-defense. If I should feel a moment of triumph or glee over some act of violence, then that is just a thing that happened; but I always try to consider it later. But I do pay my taxes, and I understand that violence is a component of the world. Peace, and justice, are not just the absence of physical violence. I do not think that it is wise to pursue violence deliberately. In the sense of, so to speak, aggressive action on the, again so to speak, operational or strategic level. To learn arts of defense(which could include being able to swiftly attack at a key time and end things quickly) is a lot wiser, and I think giving wise counsel that emphasizes defense and conflict de-escalation is valuable.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2022 00:59
|
|
|
Nessus posted:I do not think that it is wise to pursue violence deliberately. In the sense of, so to speak, aggressive action on the, again so to speak, operational or strategic level. To learn arts of defense(which could include being able to swiftly attack at a key time and end things quickly) is a lot wiser, and I think giving wise counsel that emphasizes defense and conflict de-escalation is valuable. Even this becomes tricky. Much of the rhetoric of the authoritarian right in America is justified on the basis of defense. "Defending our borders" and "Defending my home" and "Defending our nation's values" and "Defending our children" and so on. Even a defense-mindset lead to strategies like mutually-assured destruction. When you have a gun, everyone starts looking like a potential target, etc. I do agree though, in general, that having some proficiency in protecting oneself is worthwhile. But I think such measures need to be carefully counterbalanced mentally because of those complications I mentioned above. And de-escalation is always a valuable skill, agreed. If only verbal jujutsu could work so well in American politics.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2022 01:14
|
|
|
Cephas posted:Even this becomes tricky. Much of the rhetoric of the authoritarian right in America is justified on the basis of defense. "Defending our borders" and "Defending my home" and "Defending our nation's values" and "Defending our children" and so on. Even a defense-mindset lead to strategies like mutually-assured destruction. When you have a gun, everyone starts looking like a potential target, etc. Or to put it another way I'm looking on actual specific individual actions. It's a complicated issue. I don't trust myself to engage in it given where I am now, and I have the luxury of not being directly responsible for anyone's safety but my own. I know it's a luxury.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2022 01:21
|
|
|
He wasn’t a Buddhist, but rather a follower of new religious Shinto movements, Morihei Ueshiba, also know as “O’Sensei” (great teacher) founded the martial art of Aikido specifically in response to his pacifism. In its simplest form, Aikido is the martial practice of ending an act of violence so that neither the attacker nor defender is injured. I find it a worthwhile practice as I too struggle with pacifism.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2022 01:40
|
|
|
The mind has the amazing ability to justify anything. You come up with a hypothetical that justifies killing. Then an analogy to that hypothetical. Then another analogy, and so on. Next thing you know, you are dropping bombs on unarmed people in the name of self defense. The mechanics behind flat out prohibitions on killing isn't so much because it is such a clear cut rule. It's prohibited because the path to acceptable killing can easily become a slippery slope. And then you spend a lot of mental energy twisting up some justification for killing to fit with what ever karma you are carrying. The Buddhist take on this is not to find acceptable ways of killing. The Buddhist take is to find the greed, hatred, and ignorance that leads to these thoughts, to gain insight into their cause, and to snuff them out. Master that, then go on to teach others to do the same.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2022 02:54
|
|
|
Hi, I have a lot of blank posts earlier in the thread. There was some miscommunication involved on my part (to say the least), and I'd like to clarify a few things: my own beliefs, and context to the events that occurred that explains, but does not excuse, my actions. This is lengthy, and I can't seem to put in segment that can hide themselves, so if you just sighed maybe come back to it later. It's not going anywhere, and I have a keen awareness that I'm typing more to soothe my own rejection-sensitive dysphoria than contributing to the thread. I'd like to thank Achmed Jones for making me aware of the exact nature of the communication failure, as well as being incredibly generous with time taken to offer some reassurance and understanding in a very unstable place. I've moved around a lot and had an incredibly unstable home life, which makes it difficult to stay in contact with a particular expert or community, let alone a locally-based sangha. The longest-lasting approximation of such an arrangement I've had is a loose confederation of Buddhists in an obsolete group chat --- I won't say "everything I know I learned from some of these people", as that's not true, but they are certainly the causal reason I first learned of the Three Jewels and their importance in my life. The second-best I've had is this thread. Ignoring bigger goings-on: Earlier this week, a loved one received a credible threat of violence (for being a government file organizer while trans) that was at least partially followed through on. This, of course, is terrifying and somewhat difficult to deal with. I turned to the above group in the hopes of a few words or references that have gotten me through tough times, as they usually had. I was instead questioned thoroughly about what I was going to do about it, partly because clearly nobody there had good ideas either. I explained that the residence was physically hardened and equipped with alarms and a variety of less-lethal deterrents, and that's about as much as I can afford to worry about it. Asked what I would do about an attacker undeterred by such a thing, I replied of "Well, what else can I do? At that point I have to use however much force it takes to stop the threat, and I'm prepared to do so." I was then informed that the Kakacupama Sutta/Parable of the Saw was to be taken literally, even if it means enduring sexual assault, and since I've shown I'm not really committed to nonviolence I was asked (made) to leave. I tried my best to live in compliance with this ideal, but given the italicized scenario above, I was unsuccessful. This was (hopefully understandably) a bit distressing. When replying to this thread, I pattern-matched to the inquiry I was expecting rather than what was actually asked, and read it as defending against political aims (of extermination) rather than, um, what was actually there. The responses that seemed normal to me were thus advancing a much different position than the concept I was trying to express, which Cephas has phrased much better than I could: Cephas posted:Even this becomes tricky. Much of the rhetoric of the authoritarian right in America is justified on the basis of defense. "Defending our borders" and "Defending my home" and "Defending our nation's values" and "Defending our children" and so on. Even a defense-mindset lead to strategies like mutually-assured destruction. When you have a gun, everyone starts looking like a potential target, etc. I botched this horribly and viewed the obvious pushback to what I was actually expressing (in context of the question I was responding to) as, um, the possible rejection and expulsion my now-reactive state assumed was happening again, for the same reasons. Despite being rather exaggerated, my "should I just quit trying dharma entirely then?" bit was a response to people... well, telling me that. That I was doing more harm than good to all parties, and that I needed to quit one or both. And that I should, well, try harder to commit myself to nonviolence. And I really did try, even at... significant cost to myself. I know better now, but that part came out for a moment too. The obvious lesson here I need to make sure this doesn't happen again is "don't post while in a reactive state"; the less obvious one is that it is very easy to lose awareness of your own thoughts and emotions when it comes to very closely held beliefs and things that tend to inspire lots of emotion, whatever that emotion might be. I know how to deal with that, but if I don't do it it's not very effective, and it should always be a point of habit when discussing the dharma to make sure to take nice deep breaths and examine what is actually happening in my own head before I dump it all to text and  .I beg for, if not forgiveness, the thread's collective understanding, and wish to express my gratitude for the things I've learned from everyone, silently and not so silently, along the way. You can safely stop here; the rest discusses how I reconcile my identity as a Buddhist with the role of someone that practices and (out of necessity) teaches self-defense, including with firearms. There is, of course, the big rainbow-colored Other Thing I haven't addressed, the core conflict I have been dealing with in this time and that underlies the entire incident. At this point there are a lot of bad actors openly advertising "we're going to take power and execute you with guns", which has an understandably negative effect on the people referred to in 'you'. My particular corner is 'trans people' but of course the list doesn't stop there. Recent Very Scary events, which many of the above people are taking as pre-genocide indicators, have had a way higher quantity of vulnerable people than I expected ask me for self-defense advice and training. There are unfortunately quite a number of mainstream "self-defense with firearms" instructors that advocate for killing "whenever the law lets you get away with it", because if it's legal it must be right, or sometimes just sheer bloodlust (see the popular police training program "Killology" that is seriously really called that). It's why a lot of people are informally coming to me instead of a commercially available instructor, because they're afraid of that outcome. Or just, y'know, general bigotry against them. I've spent a significant chunk of my life training in self-defense as part of recovery from a critical event. That doesn't mean "just firearms" or even "just weapons": it starts with knowing a threat is there or likely to be there so you don't show up and aren't in the right place, avoiding detection altogether, running (a skill that needs to be trained and practiced to maintain proficiency), social and verbal de-escalation to defuse things before they even begin (also such a skill), empty hand skills to prevent someone from injuring you without any permanent damage, potentially pepper spray/OC or a variety of less-lethal tools, and a commitment to figuring out and using the best skill appropriate to the situation. I want to do everything possible to avoid any loss of life, mine or someone else's, and the idea of doing otherwise is unthinkable. I don't want to say "no" and throw the people asking me for help to the above bloodthirsty wolves, since that seems... well, worse. Instead, I help them examine the full spectrum of tools available, which helps the people that come to me figure out what they're comfortable and not comfortable using and where they should focus their training and practice. Most importantly, I can emphasize that someone being killed is a disastrous outcome that one should do everything possible to avoid, along with some pointers on how to develop the awareness and discernment to, hopefully, avoid ever being in such a situation in the first place. (Really, the lecture starts with that at the top, but I haven't organized this rambling nearly as neatly.) More than one person has come to the conclusion that a firearm isn't for them, and those people (a lot of who just... completely stopped going outside from fear) still feel more confident facing the world with the training and practice they've had in escaping danger and the new array of skills and tools they have at their disposal to help themselves and others --- and I wish everything could always go that way. I think doing this is my best option at this point. Of course it's obvious how firearms and Buddhism do not traditionally go together, which is why I've been struggling so much. But I also see how often improper handling causes entirely unintentional deaths, how not taking mental health seriously leads to tragedies, how even proper training can instill really bad ideas if done improperly or with the wrong motivation. I can do things and teach people to prevent these outcomes. It's definitely not ideal, but... well, if we lived in ideal times I'd take a moment to drop by and say hi to Amitabha. I really do believe this is the way I can best help people at this critical moment in time. Undoubtedly people disagree, but I wanted to at least say that yes, I understand and am aware of what I'm doing, and despite the demands of others mentioned above I'm not willing to give up on "being a Buddhist" because of it. Along this entire decade-spanning journey, I've had this thread available to provide contrasting viewpoints and bring attention to the parts of the dharma I needed most at my lowest points, a variety of frames of reference to learn from so that I might inspect all angles of the elephant, and most importantly, constant reinforcement my awareness of just how fraught and dangerous a path this really is. All of you, and your presence in this thread, serve as a constant reminder that there is a inherent and grave cost to killing in all its forms that cannot be avoided, no matter how "justifiable" one may find it. In the midst of media constantly reinforcing an ideology of the "warrior spirit", the glory of dying in battle, and other general kill apologia (the firearms industry is not a great place and I try to avoid it as much as possible while helping others to do the same), this thread and the people in it help me hold onto the firm belief in compassion and nonviolence: not just as virtues, but as skills to perform, and how best to apply them and show others that it's possible, even when surrounded by really bad things in a really bad environment. and finally, as Achmed Jones kindly drew attention my attention to, the not-Sangha here reminds me no matter how "hopeless" things may seem I must never stop trying as strongly as I can, be it my practice of the dharma or my own struggle with defensive training. E4C85D38 fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jun 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2022 04:17
|
|
|
Many post in anger; few post in reflection after. You're OK by me, and I am terribly sorry to hear about what happened with your loved one. Regarding your profession/avocational advice... It is hard for me to say from a Buddhist perspective that your means are fully skillful given the things you are honest that you include, but skillful means are a continuum. I ate chicken meat for lunch. So I think you are making a good and mindful compromise given everything. Nessus fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Jun 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2022 10:04
|
|
|
Lovingkindness is the foil to fear. Other methods only suppress it, it's still actively in your mind. However I do not deny their effectiveness. Edit: I guess do enough sensible things like lock doors, keep low key/private, aware of surroundings etc whatever but there is a point where it becomes diminishing returns and not worth the mental anguish. And obv that level is clearly different for some people but the answer is equally as obvious lovingkindness Double edit: remember the meeting of the Dali Lama and the Tibetan[?] monks once freed after some imprisonment. Virgil Vox fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Jun 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2022 08:47
|
|
|
Buddhists ethics are a lot trickier than they appear on the surface. Things like the 5 precepts for laypeople are general guideposts to help one get to awakening. Being compassionate because a sutra says so isn't practicing Buddhism. That is just practicing reading and following instructions. Buddhism certainly isn't the only religion or philosophical system that says one should be nice to people. Buddhist ethics is something that falls out of insights gained by doing the practice, and are based on concepts like emptiness and non-duality, which can be hard to grasp at first. One just has to take the rules on faith until they can build the skills to really deconstruct why they do what they do. Can one teach self defense as a Buddhist? The question to ask is; Can it be done without promoting craving, aversion, and ignorance? An even harder question is; Can it be put into practice without promoting craving, aversion, and ignorance?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2022 22:04
|
|
|
Virgil Vox posted:Lovingkindness is the foil to fear. Other methods only suppress it, it's still actively in your mind. However I do not deny their effectiveness. there's this one quote I always liked, from the book Feeling Safe: Making Space for the Self by Stephen Shapiro and Hilary Ryglewicz quote:Knowing who we are is the way out of fear -- of ourselves, of others, and of social institutions. Because they are made of us, just as we are made of them. [...] Nothing is as cruel as fear, not even death. And only two processes are strong enough to reduce and contain fear. Those two processes are: knowing and loving. as someone with both commitment to "love" as an ideal and what I can only describe as an overdeveloped sense of justice, I have found that trying to "understand" everything I hold to be wrong is a much more reasonable mission than "loving" the same. carries less of a sense that you are smashing your head against a brick wall too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2022 00:57
|
|
|
I know this is a recurring topic for me, but can I ask for perspectives on what it means to love someone and be in a relationship with them? I am not really asking from the perspective of "Buddhism and relationships" but more like, as folks who have a generally similar worldview as me, I would appreciate hearing your perspectives. Romantic love is something I have a lot of difficulty understanding. This is most likely a result of a combination of childhood sexual abuse, being closeted during my childhood and adolescence, and having poor romantic partners in my 20s (I am AMAB, nonbinary and trans-femme, and it makes it pretty hard to find someone whose sexual orientation is compatible with me). When I practice metta meditation, I feel a boundless and euphoric sense of love and goodwill toward so many beings. When I am in the middle of practicing feeling such intense loving kindness, I can't help but start feeling, like, "if only I could find someone whom I could spend the rest of my life giving this feeling of love to. Someone I can wrap my arms around and be kind to and shower with a deep and endless wellspring of love." I don't really understand this feeling or know its name. I am wishing for love, but is it metta love? Platonic love? Is it romantic love? Is romantic love different from lust? Is it greedy to want one person that I can express love to in particular? Is it even possible for such a feeling to be greedy--if metta can be infinite, then even with a life partner, couldn't I share metta with everyone? It's not that I don't have feelings of lust, but they are difficult feelings that are filtered through a lifetime of painful encounters. Sexual feelings have always felt empty and unfulfilling. But is that because I am perceiving the inherent dissatisfaction of desiring such things, or is that because I've only had bad experiences and haven't found the right person? I would think, if I could entrust someone with that previously described wellspring of love within myself, then a sexual encounter with them would probably have the capacity to be an expression of caring and trust and joy, right? I know these might sound more like questions for a therapist, but I've had a lot of bad therapists in the past. One of them told me that sex isn't supposed to be about feeling safe, it's supposed to be about giving yourself to someone. That description is something I have had a lot of trouble reconciling, because of course I want to give myself to someone in the sense of engaging deeply and intimately with them, but if I didn't feel safe when doing so, I would risk being abused again. I'm in my early 30s, and my friends are all having children or finally getting married and settling down. I went on one date this year and it wasn't terrific. I also went and spent a week alone in a cabin in the mountains for vacation, and while it was a little lonely, I felt a really strong sense of happiness and contentment. So I think I've cultivated some pretty decent love and appreciation for being with myself. But I also take it seriously when people say "lay Buddhists shouldn't force the conditions of monks upon themselves." So I guess that is why this jumble is on my mind. What does it mean to love someone romantically? Does having a partner increase your quality of life and capacity for goodness? If I have even a vague desire for a partner, is it self-harm/self-sabotage for me to remain single for so long? I guess these are the types of questions I am hoping for some insight into. Thank you as always.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2022 05:20
|
|
|
Cephas posted:I know this is a recurring topic for me, but can I ask for perspectives on what it means to love someone and be in a relationship with them? I am not really asking from the perspective of "Buddhism and relationships" but more like, as folks who have a generally similar worldview as me, I would appreciate hearing your perspectives. Here are some rambling thoughts about a few things you said from the perspective of a very incomplete human. Sex is what you want it to be. I don’t think sex is “supposed” to be any certain way. If safety is important to you (I’m inferring this as trust) then that is what the primary attribute should be in any sexual situation you enter into. I believe that you get to define the parameters. Everyone’s path is different and societal expectations can be rough. In my opinion, let go of these expectations and maybe even your own expectations and just go with the flow. I’m 35 and we have no kids- her catholic family thinks that is strange. We used to feel pressured by it but eventually we just let go. Our choice of when and how and if to have children are part of our path, independent of societal expectations. “Does having a partner increase your quality of life and capacity for goodness?” It can. It can also decrease quality and capacity. Again, I don’t know anything, but fulfillment can be found in letting go of expectations and just being. When you have a partner, it’s easy to expect things of them and vise verse and this can lead to suffering in both. On the flip side, if you can both “turn on, tune in, and drop out” to quote Timothy Leary, together you can make your relationship just more grist for the mill. My wife and I are best friends. Like Lakshmi and Vishnu I think that we are born age after age and have each other. Every year is better than the last year and this year it will be our 9th. How we express love for each other is in humor, service, and loving presence. We don’t have traditional romantic love between us, at least not visibly. We don’t do lovey-dovey. We find that the key to our partnership is in being best friends and not getting caught up in how we “ought” to be. Since finding the dharma I think I am able to love her, and everyone in my life, in a much more divine, spacious, open, and less attached manner. I don’t know how to wrap up this post but sending out rays of loving kindness to you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2022 04:54
|
|
|
Thank you, LuckyCat. What you said makes sense to me. I think I have a bit of this mental block where I have trouble imagining certain types of good things for myself--a house of my own, a loving partner, etc. I can easily hope and pray for goodness in other people's lives, but if I imagine it for myself it makes me feel uncomfortable. Sometimes I need to recalibrate myself and recognize the difference between walking the middle way and just being cold to myself.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2022 04:01
|
|
|
Remember, you're a suffering being too! It's very easy to come up with reasons why you deserve it, but nobody deserves it. It may be inevitable to some extent; it may be caused by our karma; but deserved? No, that's why we were told the dharma.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2022 04:37
|
|
|
I am curious if anyone has experience "coming out" to a family of evangelical Christians? I'm spending a week in a rented vacation house with my mom's side of the family and at this stage of my life, I don't feel like hiding. I'm not expecting anyone to be mad at me but I know at least one person will make side comments about Jesus is the only way. This same woman got snarky with me once when I accidentally brought up the beauty of human evolution at a pool party.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2022 19:27
|
|
|
Can't say that I've had to talk about religion to evangelical Christians, but there definitely was this kind of adjustment period I had with some folks. I had a close friend who basically thought, "you're an atheist, you don't just choose to start following a religion. you don't have any real skin in the game. this is just some passing fascination for you." It took a long time and a lot of mental effort to make him understand that he was projecting his feelings onto me. I think that's a really common response from westerners, especially white westerners, when it comes to eastern religions. Also, be ready to explain that yes, you have a moral compass.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2022 19:35
|
|
|
LuckyCat posted:I am curious if anyone has experience "coming out" to a family of evangelical Christians? I'm spending a week in a rented vacation house with my mom's side of the family and at this stage of my life, I don't feel like hiding. I'm not expecting anyone to be mad at me but I know at least one person will make side comments about Jesus is the only way. This same woman got snarky with me once when I accidentally brought up the beauty of human evolution at a pool party. I've been in similar situations, but every situation is different. Reactions I have include; I've also received the "Jesus is the only way" take in a few different ways. Both as the positive assertion of Jesus, or in the negative sense of just saying what I believe isn't true. Being treated as if I am only being a Buddhist as a fad or to be a contrarian. It is typically seen as an exotic sort of belief. So it comes off as an effort to be strange or exotic. Surprisingly, answering a lot of Intro to Buddhism sort of questions. Although sometimes this is just because they don't know enough about Buddhism to explain why you are wrong for following it. But from my observation, things like Islam and Mormonism often draw a worse reaction from Evangelicals that Buddhism. Buddhism is so far out from Christianity, that is just treated as generically ignorant. Things like Islam and Mormonism are seen more as serious business heretics, since they at least claim to be talking about the same thing. Cephas posted:Also, be ready to explain that yes, you have a moral compass. In my experience, this is usually one of the perks to introducing myself as a Buddhist rather than an atheist. People just seem to assume that, as a religion, Buddhism comes with a moral system. But only when presenting as an atheist do I get those super awkward questions about, "What is stopping you from [insert worst possible crime]?
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2022 03:51
|
|
|
I'm a big fan of just not mentioning buddhism to people in person unless they put the pieces together or it in some way comes up. Then if you finally do mention it, or it comes up years later it shields you from any 'oh you're doing this as a whim/fad/whatever.' If I can get away with it, it's fun to deny it or play a little dumb, within reason: 'oh yeah buddhism i've heard of that, what is it all about?' that said I have no evangelical family or other loved ones who are especially concerned about what I do religiously, so I don't really have any particularly pertinent feedback there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2022 23:14
|
|
|
Return of book club, overcoming Mara again: Got through the part in Heart of the Buddha's Teaching about the two truths. The explanation of 'the rose is not a rose; therefore it truly is a rose' felt like it pieced together a lot of little things I had heard or thought in passing. It's a very efficient way of expressing the idea of aggregates, I suppose. So uh y'all wanna read another book sometime? 
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2022 16:35
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Return of book club, overcoming Mara again: yeah let's do it any book will do but if there's nominations i nominate this little bundle of joy 
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2022 16:56
|
|
|
when im reading about buddhist stuff i tend to think about being and nothingness a lot. sartre gets it pretty close to right. idk if he actually read buddhist stuff or not though
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2022 17:09
|
|
|
Achmed Jones posted:when im reading about buddhist stuff i tend to think about being and nothingness a lot. sartre gets it pretty close to right. idk if he actually read buddhist stuff or not though To be uncharitable for a moment, in light of my sophomore-level understanding of Buddhist theology, I often read summations of 19th or early 20th century European philosophers and think, "Oh, these guys know about Buddhism, they're just salty about it not saying just what they wanted." ram dass in hell posted:yeah let's do it
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2022 17:58
|
|
|
Nessus posted:I imagine he was at least aware of some of the concepts https://terebess.hu/zen/Huangpo.pdf
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2022 18:10
|
|
|
A coworker today was shelving a tiny Buddha statue and she said, “This shouldn’t even exist because you’re not supposed to make statues of the Buddha.” The old Thirteen Orphans would have asked where she got such an idea, trying to figure out if she was herself a Buddhist from an iconoclastic school, or just had a bad World Religion teacher. The old Thirteen Orphans would have given her a breakdown of Buddhist iconography from different schools and countries. This Thirteen Orphans doesn’t bring up religion at work after being called a “Luciferian” by his old boss at his previous job when she found out he’s Catholic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 02:02
|
|
|
Thirteen Orphans posted:A coworker today was shelving a tiny Buddha statue and she said, “This shouldn’t even exist because you’re not supposed to make statues of the Buddha.” The old Thirteen Orphans would have asked where she got such an idea, trying to figure out if she was herself a Buddhist from an iconoclastic school, or just had a bad World Religion teacher. The old Thirteen Orphans would have given her a breakdown of Buddhist iconography from different schools and countries. This Thirteen Orphans doesn’t bring up religion at work after being called a “Luciferian” by his old boss at his previous job when she found out he’s Catholic. Also I believe you can always make statues of the Buddha, because let me tell you: if you're not supposed to, a lot of people are in some deep dukkha
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 02:15
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Was it even the Buddha? If it was the fat guy, that's not Shakyamuni. It was most definitely a tiny Shakyamuni, not Budai.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 02:22
|
|
|
my fitted sheet has these weird little pockets on the side, i guess for your phone or chicken wings or something. the other day i found a little budai statue that id given little jones. it was cute when i pulled fit out
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 02:27
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Also I believe you can always make statues of the Buddha, because let me tell you: if you're not supposed to, a lot of people are in some deep dukkha The earliest records don't have a statue prohibition so much as all the building efforts were put into stupas. Later, figures were carved into the stupas as a sort of "life of the saint" sort of thing. Stupas were used like a mission trail, as landmarks and places to rest. There was later some sects that specifically said not to depict arhats. But there is a lot of ways to interpret that. Was it allegorical, as a way to show that one had left samsara? Or using an empty seat to communicate the concept of no-self? Or was it "bad karma" to depict a saint? Not that any of that really mattered, because people stated making depictions of Buddha and bodhisattvas pretty early any way. Zen later came up with reasons for not making elaborate Buddha statues. That's the only current tradition I can think of where a practitioner might voice a belief that one shouldn't make statues.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2022 18:00
|
|
|
Hi folks! First time posting on SA in ages. I've recently moved to Minneapolis and have joined a local community of lay practitioners in the Plum Village Tradition of Thich Nhat Hanh. I've been grateful to be in a larger city, because prior to this I was living in the far south of Texas, where needless to say Buddhist communities are quite rare. I have not visited any of the other meditation centers and temples in the Twin Cities, but I would like to at some point. I have a kapok-stuffed zafu and zabuton that I feel benefited from in meditation. My body is flexible enough to at least put myself in the half-lotus and full lotus positions. However, in the full lotus, my right leg frequently falls asleep, making meditation sessions of longer than 10 or 15 minutes increasingly uncomfortable if not painful. Perhaps a nerve somewhere is being pinched, but I've never been able to locate and rectify the source of my discomfort. Is this an issue best resolved by seeking an expert?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 19:32
|
|
|
If I find the sleepy leg to be distracting, I just move my leg to another possition. The sensation of it waking back up lasts maybe a minute, then I just go back to what ever my focus was. It is never consistent for me. Sometime sitting lotus pinches the nerve and sitting Burmese style undoes it, and sometimes it is reversed. If you google numbness of the specific parts of the leg that fell asleep, it is pretty easy to figure out which nerve you are pinching. A physical therapist could probably find it pretty quick and give you pointers on sitting in a way that doesn't pinch that nerve.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 19:51
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Also I believe you can always make statues of the Buddha, because let me tell you: if you're not supposed to, a lot of people are in some deep dukkha Especially that guy in Sekiro
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 20:34
|
|
|
LuckyCat posted:I am curious if anyone has experience "coming out" to a family of evangelical Christians? I'm spending a week in a rented vacation house with my mom's side of the family and at this stage of my life, I don't feel like hiding. I'm not expecting anyone to be mad at me but I know at least one person will make side comments about Jesus is the only way. This same woman got snarky with me once when I accidentally brought up the beauty of human evolution at a pool party. If you don’t feel like hiding, then you will answer honestly when pressed on the matter. If you answer honestly when pressed on the matter, then people will react accordingly. It comes down to a dice roll of whether they react negatively or not. It sounds like you will inevitably roll those dice, so I would focus on managing fallout and your options - standing your ground, shrugging, and going to grab another slice of pizza; or planning a bug-out. But don’t fight. It’s not worth it, and you should feel free to dismiss or disengage if you and they are incompatible in any way. Sometimes you leave people behind. It is not hiding, it is life. It’s unavoidable. IMO: drive your own car and be ready to leave. Cephas posted:I know this is a recurring topic for me, but can I ask for perspectives on what it means to love someone and be in a relationship with them? Picking this back up cause I’ve had the exact same disconnect but followed a different path. Is the problem here not the state you are in, but the desire to be in a particular state? This is something that has always escaped me about Buddhist thought. Suffering would be minimized if the cause of clinging/dissatisfaction/incongruity, the grasping elicited by the phenomena rather than the phenomena itself, were eliminated. As in, if not having it makes you feel bad, then just stop wanting it. Clearly it isn’t as simple as that or we wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with. It’s not easy (or maybe even impossible) for humans to just edit themselves like that. What is to be done or considered, then? There’s the path, sure, but is that even what the path is for? Or am I even making sense thinking about it in terms of letting go of the wanting? And that’s a question for whatever school of thought is interested in answering. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jul 28, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 01:33
|
|
|
Achmed Jones posted:you probably know this, but there are sects of buddhism that explicitly state that it's impossible to become enlightened in this corrupt world. so the best you can do is to seek rebirth in the pure land to become enlightened the next go-around. chant the nembutsu and do your best I've been thinking about this statement a lot, and wouldn't it almost be the opposite and easier than ever? Perhaps the probability of becoming enlightened or even stream entry are low now [perhaps this is what was meant by the bolded statement?] but if that is what one seeks now is an amazing time with so much knowledge widely available. We can see relationships and how things are connected in this world almost better than any other time if we look for them. We can live in remote areas and still communicate face to face with a teacher in real time. Pollyanna posted:This is something that has always escaped me about Buddhist thought. Suffering would be minimized if the cause of clinging/dissatisfaction/incongruity, the grasping elicited by the phenomena rather than the phenomena itself, were eliminated. As in, if not having it makes you feel bad, then just stop wanting it. yes
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 04:24
|
|
|
mystery solved 
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 04:29
|
|
|
Virgil Vox posted:I've been thinking about this statement a lot, and wouldn't it almost be the opposite and easier than ever? Perhaps the probability of becoming enlightened or even stream entry are low now [perhaps this is what was meant by the bolded statement?] but if that is what one seeks now is an amazing time with so much knowledge widely available. We can see relationships and how things are connected in this world almost better than any other time if we look for them. We can live in remote areas and still communicate face to face with a teacher in real time. Modern communications enable everything you describe... but they also have brought out both many of our old demons and created some new ones. "FOMO" and algorithmic-generated hate group funnels, and so forth. It is easy to learn about the path, but I think following the path is much as it has always been.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 04:42
|
|
|
for fucks sake posted:On the other hand loving-kindness practice is kind of similar to "thoughts and prayers", but the acknowledged intention there is to develop compassion within yourself, rather than deluding yourself into thinking it alone actually makes a difference. This kinda highlights the point that no matter how much you try, there’s only so much you can actually do about others. You aren’t their keeper, they have to figure things out for themselves. To think otherwise would be to lie to yourself and possibly to others. The people on the world who want to hurt me and people like me have to figure out compassion and giving a poo poo about other people on their own. I do hope at some point they do. In the meantime, I have my views on what constitutes minimizing suffering. I can work on that later. Belated disclaimer: I’m not Buddhist. I’m not anything. At most, in this particular context I’ve been influenced by Taoism and the writings of Laozi (and also the whole raised catholic thing but that’s something I’m working on dumping off baggage from). I assume the two traditions have informed each other along the way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 14:06
|
|
|
That reminds me, I was wondering if the thread could tolerate a somewhat relevant braindump. I’ve always loved music. Been like that ever since I was a kid playing Super Mario 64 and Bomberman Hero. There’s many pieces that have had an emotional effect on me in that time, and it’s always been closer to me than many, many things (except maybe my cat). Recently, I’ve developed a want to make my own music. I’m not sure if it’s in hopes of - making music to reach the heights of the music I love, - making music to prove that I too can be like the people I admire, - making music to prove that I exist and matter, or - making music to enjoy and listen to and love like the other music in my life. Probably all of it. It’s not easy. My confidence is low and grasping/aversion (to use relevant terminology) is high. My thoughts often boil down to “why am I bothering”, “does this have a point”, “am I struggling simply for the sake of struggling”, “is this worth the headache”, “why do I feel so sad and ashamed and embarrassed”, etc. Somewhere along the way, I realized that my choice is between making music and continually living the disconnect between where I am and where I want to be, or not making music and keeping that disconnect in the back of my head. I independently came to the conclusion that this sucks and gently caress it - I want to take a third option and kill that want. I want to make music without the goddamn baggage. To just do, without the humanistic sensory tank overload that comes with anything we do. Those who embody this may or may not be the “admirable” or “noble” ones, whatever that means, but they do seem content. There is a concept of action through inaction, a flow that dispenses with the why of doing and simply does. I believe that may be the end to the disparity. It will not be easy, and I don’t know what it takes to get there. But is all this not in itself a want? Is it possible that I both need to kill the want to reach a certain state (“make music good”), and a want to enact a certain behavior (“make music”)? What is the difference between a want that effects doubt and disparity, and a want that is a part of an inherent nature? Which should exist, and which should not? Is that even the right question? My instinctual response is that I’m overthinking it, probably. Edit: oh yeah. I invite any and all comments and thoughts on the matter. It helps to get input. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jul 28, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 15:06
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:Recently, I’ve developed a want to make my own music. I’m not sure if it’s in hopes of Pollyanna posted:But is all this not in itself a want? Is it possible that I both need to kill the want to reach a certain state (“make music good”), and a want to enact a certain behavior (“make music”)? What is the difference between a want that effects doubt and disparity, and a want that is a part of an inherent nature? Which should exist, and which should not? Is that even the right question?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 16:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 15:17 |
|
|
I enjoy the process quite a bit when I am free of the expectations, emotional baggage, and ingrained conceptions that lead to the disparity and doubt we’re all familiar with. I enjoy it quite a bit less when I am not free of the aforementioned. Sounds like making music is worth it. Sounds like ending the suffering that plagues not just me but clearly many other people who make music is also worth it. Next move is to do that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 16:28
|
|