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(Thread IKs: dead gay comedy forums)
 
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Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

Hopefully they put the download up for free like they have for their previous collections
https://www.peacelandbread.com/books

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MLSM
Apr 3, 2021

by Azathoth

Atrocious Joe posted:

edit: in less snarky news it looks like somebody decided to officially professionally translate the forbidden Losurdo
https://twitter.com/plbmagazine/status/1551356808484179969?s=20&t=ib0x1McTANntEwPpTL-SAQ

Oh gently caress yes

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
mmm forbidden losurdo

The Voice of Labor
Apr 8, 2020

so the translation's better than the one liberalism got, right?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
more from "The ABC of Communism":

quote:

The expropriation of the bourgeoisie, based upon prin­ciple, must be carried to its logical conclusion. This is the first task which is incumbent on our party. But we must be careful not to forget that petty proprietors are not to be expropriated. The " nationalisation " of small-scale industry is absolutely out of the question : first of all, because it is beyond our powers to organise the dispersed fragments of petty industry ;_ and secondly because the Communist Party does not and cannot wish to alienate the many millions of small masters. Their adhesion to socialism will be quite voluntary, and will not result from their forcible expropriation. This fact must be especially borne in mind in those regions where small-scale production is widely prevalent.

...

We have seen that one of the chief obstacles to the upbuilding of communism in Russia arises from the fact that in general our country, like all undeveloped and backward lands, is one of petty enterprise. Above all is this true of Russian agriculture. But the manufacturing industry of Russia likewise retains vestiges of the old type of relationships ; we have large numbers of home workers, independent artisans, and small-scale producers. According to pre-war statistics, in 84 provinces there were in all about 1,700,000 petty enterprises carried on by home workers.

According to some estimates, the number of independent home workers was reduced by one million during the war, and this despite the fact that, owing to the disorganisation of large-scale manufacture, many workers took to home industry. The reduction is to be ex­plained by the migration and dispersal of home workers in search of regions where there was more to eat. In the provinces of Vologda, Novgorod, and similar regions,. where the food con­ditions were particularly bad, the falling off ranged from 20 to 25 per cent. On the other hand, in the provinces of Kursk, Orel, Simbirsk, and Tambov, there was an increase of from 15 to 20 per cent.

The proletarian Power is faced by the question, How is this mass of petty producers to be incorporated into the general system of the socialist economy now in course of construction ?

In the first place, it is absolutely clear that forcible expropriation is here quite inadmissible. The petty pro­ducers must not be bludgeoned into the socialist realm. We must do everything in our power to make it easy for them to undergo the necessary change, and to understand that it is not merely necessary but advantageous. This can be achieved by surrounding the home worker with cer­tain conditions. What are these conditions ? How can they be secured ?

First of all, WE MUST INCLUDE HOME INDUSTRY IN THE GENERAL SCHEME FOR THE STATE PROVISION OF FUEL AND RAW MATERIALS. For if the home worker receives from the State organisation of the proletariat the fuel and the raw materials which are requisite for his productive occupation, then he will become dependent upon that proletarian organisa­tion. In former days, under capitalism, the dealer or the factory owner often supplied the home worker with raw materials, and thereby the latter became dependent upon the former. Of course the dealer or the factory owner " looked after ,, the home worker in this way in order to exploit him. The home worker was really working, not for himself, but for a capitalist. Of a very different character is the dependence of the home worker upon the proletarian State. The proletarian State, the workers' State, neither wants to, nor will, nor can, exploit the home worker. The proletarian State only wants to help the home workers to organise themselves jointly with the other workers. The proletarian State will not extract profit from the home workers (it does not extract profit from anyone); its aim is to attract the home workers and their organisations into the general labour organisation of industry. The home worker who is dependent upon the dealer or the factory owner, works for the dealer or the factory owner. He becomes their beast of burden. The home worker who is dependent upon the proletarian State is a social worker. Thus the first requisite is to include the home worker in the general scheme for the supply of fuel and raw materials.

Secondly, it is essential that THE HOME WORKER SHOULD RECEIVE FINANCIAL AID FROM THE STATE. Formerly, under capitalism, the usurious dealer likewise helped out the home worker in money matters. But he " supported " the home worker much as the cord supports the man who has been hanged. The dealer enslaved the home worker in the most barbarous fashion, for the dealer, spiderlike, sucked a golden juice out of the home worker. The proletarian State can really help the home worker with money, supplying the money to enable the home worker to execute State orders, with no intention of extracting profits, with no usurious aim whatever.

Thirdly, it is self-evident that THE PROLETARIAN STATE MUST PLACE ITS ORDERS WITH THE HOME WORKER IN ACCORDANCE WITH A CENTRALISED SYSTEM. Supplying the home worker with raw materials, with fuel, with accessories, and in case of need with implements, the proletarian State authority places its orders in accordance with a definite plan, and is enabled to include the home worker in the general scheme of social production.

Thus the home workers will by degrees be drawn within the general system of production now being organised upon socialist foundations. They will be drawn within that system, not only by being supplied with certain products of social production, but also because they themselves will be directly working for the proletarian State in accord­ ance with a plan prescribed for them by the instruments of the proletarian State.

Fourthly, THE HELP GIVEN TO THE HOME WORKERS (in the manner just described) MUST BE CONDITIONAL UPON THEIR ORGANISING THEMSELVES LIKE OTHER WORKERS. The proletarian State must give the preference to those home workers who unite, who organise themselves into artels or cooperatives of production. More important still, it must give the preference among such organisations, to those which are undertaking large-scale cooperative production instead of petty production.

Every entrepreneur, however small the scale of his operations, and even the independent home worker, has at the bottom of his heart a desire to become a great entre­ preneur, a desire to " get on in the world," a desire to have an " establishment " of his own, to engage " hands," and so on. Under capitalism, artels or cooperatives of produc­tion have tended, as they have grown stronger, to degenerate, in actual fact, into capitalist undertakings. It will be very different under the proletarian dictatorship. Here there is no scope for capitalism. Instead, we have the State authority of the workers, which organises all possible kinds of unions among the workers, and which holds in its hands all the financial resources of the community, and, still more important, all the means of production. Formerly it was absurd to believe that artels could bring us nearer to socialism ; inevitably, in the course of their development they became transformed into capitalist companies. But now, when we are able to draw them within the organisation of the workers' State, such bodies can be helpful in the upbuilding of socialism. They can be helpful, not because the home workers are themselves eager for communism (many of the home workers, like petty entrepreneurs in general, are prejudiced against communism), but because new roads are being opened, while the old roads have been completely closed.

By encouraging the home workers to form labour organ­isations, we encourage their painless transformation into workers of the great united, organised, " mechanised " system of social production.

I bring this up because this seems to be an answer to the frequent complaint about how ushering in communism is going to hit small-time entrepreneurs or whatever, and while those criticisms are almost certainly done in bad faith and the more glib answer is to simply say "yes, we are coming for your loving toothbrush", I thought it was useful to read about how it would actually get addressed per direct theory and praxis.

lumpentroll
Mar 4, 2020

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

mmm forbidden losurdo

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

Atrocious Joe posted:

Hopefully they put the download up for free like they have for their previous collections
https://www.peacelandbread.com/books

Are the Kim Il-Sung works they have referring to the juche doctrine?

wynott dunn
Aug 9, 2006

What is to be done?

Who or what can challenge, and stand a chance at beating, the corporate juggernauts dominating the world?

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

mmm forbidden losurdo

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

https://archive.ph/KPeSR

Mike Davis did an interview recently, and extremely bleak.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/RodericDay/status/1552506931511791622

Goast
Jul 23, 2011

by VideoGames

wow they got all of that out of the first chapter huh

Pomeroy
Apr 20, 2020

Goast posted:

wow they got all of that out of the first chapter huh

Disappointed that my first impression of Roderic was spot on. White guilt is worse than meth and opioids put together, and that's coming from a Judeo-Bolshevik.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
i'm with him politically more often than not but he needs nia frome there to reign in his impulses

Fish of hemp
Apr 1, 2011

A friendly little mouse!
Isn't Settlers about how most anti imperialist thing to do is sit on your white rear end and let people of color do the revolution?

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

Fish of hemp posted:

Isn't Settlers about how most anti imperialist thing to do is sit on your white rear end and let people of color do the revolution?

What?

It talks about settler colonialism and how it effects how the imperial core interacting with it's minority populations. It's not well written, and it trips over it's own dick trying to argue points. That being said it's an incredibly short read and you should just read it yourself and make your own conclusions.

There are a number of books that do a much better job of making the same argument i'd recommend reading black skin, white masks or invention of whiteness instead.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!

Fish of hemp posted:

Isn't Settlers about how most anti imperialist thing to do is sit on your white rear end and let people of color do the revolution?
You've seen the anarchist thread, right? There are worse ideas

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007


Was it Settlers that got everyone on LF into MTWism or was that another book

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

Not So Fast posted:

Was it Settlers that got everyone on LF into MTWism or was that another book

That sounds correct. No one actually reads the book, but listens to someone's summary of it and becomes a MTW.

Mr. Lobe
Feb 23, 2007

... Dry bones...


Fish of hemp posted:

Isn't Settlers about how most anti imperialist thing to do is sit on your white rear end and let people of color do the revolution?

That's basically mtwism in a nutshell from what I understand

Doesn't strike me as a particularly productive politics but I imagine it feels very righteous to internalize it

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

Mr. Lobe posted:

That's basically mtwism in a nutshell from what I understand

Doesn't strike me as a particularly productive politics but I imagine it feels very righteous to internalize it

westerners are grown in sealed jars of liberalism, necessarily causing irreversible brain damage that prevents them from effective revolution or independently building socialism, even if they sincerely want to, and therefore western socialists who wish to build socialism must instead support people in the third world, who do not necessarily have this brain damage. westerners internalizing the above interpretation of MTW is one example of how this manifests in practice.

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

It's like a snake making GBS threads in its own mouth.

F Stop Fitzgerald
Dec 12, 2010

Fish of hemp posted:

Isn't Settlers about how most anti imperialist thing to do is sit on your white rear end and let people of color do the revolution?

this would be an improvement over the current state of the white left

Trash Ops
Jun 19, 2012

im having fun, isnt everyone else?

https://twitter.com/eshalegal/status/1552691763059605506?s=21&t=afy0evaXUB4f7B5JlatOZQ

lmao

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007
A tankie? well sure, I love Michael Dukakis!

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

https://twitter.com/yugopnik/status/1550472855065960456#m

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
lmao yellow reaganti

MLSM
Apr 3, 2021

by Azathoth
Well poo poo welcome to the struggle mr Reagan

Pentecoastal Elites
Feb 27, 2007

Zodium posted:

westerners are grown in sealed jars of liberalism, necessarily causing irreversible brain damage that prevents them from effective revolution or independently building socialism, even if they sincerely want to, and therefore western socialists who wish to build socialism must instead support people in the third world, who do not necessarily have this brain damage. westerners internalizing the above interpretation of MTW is one example of how this manifests in practice.

lots of attempts at building international solidarity are

LEFTISTS LIVING IN THE GLOBAL SOUTH: please help us in any way you can. seriously any way whatsoever would be a giant help.

UNIFORMLY WHITE AMERICAN "LEFTISTS": the amerikkkan kkkolonizer is unable to participate in actual solidarity due to the demon seed of yakub that festers inside of him

GLOBAL SOUTHERNERS: ok but could you maybe send us a few bucks? just whatever you can spare. or like petition your government about this one specific policy

AMERICANS: it is impossible

F Stop Fitzgerald
Dec 12, 2010

Pentecoastal Elites posted:

LEFTISTS LIVING IN THE GLOBAL SOUTH: please help us in any way you can. seriously any way whatsoever would be a giant help.

UNIFORMLY WHITE AMERICAN "LEFTISTS": [fatly] healthcare pls

lumpentroll
Mar 4, 2020

Brain Candy
May 18, 2006

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004
Im going to buy Zapatista coffee while I still can

croup coughfield
Apr 8, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 74 days!

MLSM posted:

Well poo poo welcome to the struggle mr Reagan

he was a self-described socialist when he worked at GE

croup coughfield
Apr 8, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 74 days!
nancy too i think

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
card carrying?

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

AnimeIsTrash posted:

What?

It talks about settler colonialism and how it effects how the imperial core interacting with it's minority populations. It's not well written, and it trips over it's own dick trying to argue points. That being said it's an incredibly short read and you should just read it yourself and make your own conclusions.

There are a number of books that do a much better job of making the same argument i'd recommend reading black skin, white masks or invention of whiteness instead.
"strategy for a black agenda" by henry winston is interesting. written in the 70s. it's critical of different black liberation strategies like "neo-garveyism."



https://www.marxists.org/archive/winston/1973/strategy-black-agenda.pdf

e-dt
Sep 16, 2019

Pentecoastal Elites posted:

lots of attempts at building international solidarity are

LEFTISTS LIVING IN THE GLOBAL SOUTH: please help us in any way you can. seriously any way whatsoever would be a giant help.

UNIFORMLY WHITE AMERICAN "LEFTISTS": the amerikkkan kkkolonizer is unable to participate in actual solidarity due to the demon seed of yakub that festers inside of him

GLOBAL SOUTHERNERS: ok but could you maybe send us a few bucks? just whatever you can spare. or like petition your government about this one specific policy

AMERICANS: it is impossible

I mean there's a pretty prominent example of third worldists doing exactly that, the Blekingegade gang believed revolution was impossible in Denmark so did robberies and sent the money to the PLO.

The Voice of Labor
Apr 8, 2020

if joe stalin looked like joe manchin would you still be communist?

croup coughfield
Apr 8, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 74 days!

Cuttlefush posted:

card carrying?

yeah. he was in tight with the hollywood folks and socialism was huge with them at the time. though its worth noting that he didn't really believe anything except he wanted the people around him to like him. so once the CA political machine got hold of him they just gave him a new ideology and he went with it

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MSDOS KAPITAL
Jun 25, 2018





croup coughfield posted:

nancy too i think
that tracks since aristocrats were historically more likely to betray the new ruling class than people who descended from actual bourgeoisie

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