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If its a large based model with reach you can just add 4 to the longest distance a model can go, right? I get that the model farthest away from the charger is getting extra distance there but thats still down to screening and threat assessment at the end of the day. And these are heavy cav, light cav might be even more obnoxious. I get that it's gonna feel odd but it's hardly the weirdest thing I've seen in a war game. Although I am happy that it'll make unit activations take considerably less time and to me personally that's a bigger bonus than anything.
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Jul 29, 2022 04:04
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Maneck posted:Cryx got rules yesterday. Those are legacy rules for models that are now permanently out of print and can only be played in a specific format. At least for right now the only faction symbols that are on the timeline are Orgoth, Cygnar, Khador and a fourth I dont recognize but seems to be related to the elves.
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Jul 29, 2022 04:05
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AnEdgelord posted:Those are legacy rules for models that are now permanently out of print and can only be played in a specific format. At least for right now the only faction symbols that are on the timeline are Orgoth, Cygnar, Khador and a fourth I dont recognize but seems to be related to the elves. They said everyone will be getting armies that currently exists iirc
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Jul 29, 2022 04:08
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MCPeePants posted:I'm sure you can see how some existing players will be put off. What existing players? Hipster Occultist posted:WMH basically died in my meta. WMH basically died in every meta. Hopefully the new edition can attract new players., because the handful of old guard out there weren't keeping PP afloat. I'm not trying to be dismissive of concerns or preferences, but the big picture is MK3 was going away anyway. The option was never "keep the game the same" it was "Mk4 or death".
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Jul 29, 2022 04:11
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S.J. posted:They said everyone will be getting armies that currently exists iirc I think thats true but I also think thats gonna take a while, all they've said four WM factions this year and two hordes factions next year. It could take quite a long time until anyone sees a modern mk4 version of their army come out unless you're in the initial run. The legacy rules are meant to fill the gap in the meantime and then eventually be relgated to the "unlimited" format so PP doesnt have to try to balance the pile of old models they dont make anymore.
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Jul 29, 2022 04:17
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AnEdgelord posted:Those are legacy rules for models that are now permanently out of print and can only be played in a specific format. We don't know that that's true at this point, and I think the evidence points to the cards in the beta being available in the Prime format.
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Jul 29, 2022 04:30
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AnEdgelord posted:I think thats true but I also think thats gonna take a while, all they've said four WM factions this year and two hordes factions next year. It could take quite a long time until anyone sees a modern mk4 version of their army come out unless you're in the initial run. The legacy rules are meant to fill the gap in the meantime and then eventually be relgated to the "unlimited" format so PP doesnt have to try to balance the pile of old models they dont make anymore. Right, I know. That is good to keep in mind though. I am a little bummed about the delay though, not gonna lie, especially since I loved playing Trollbloods rydiafan posted:What existing players? Yeah, and on top of this, people need to be realistic about another thing. People want to be able to use their existing models, and I feel that - but the company literally makes no money off of that. Worse, the secondary market is such at the moment that no one, anywhere, needs to buy models from PP to play Mk3. If no one is buying new product, that's it. S.J. fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jul 29, 2022 |
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Jul 29, 2022 05:05
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AnEdgelord posted:I think thats true but I also think thats gonna take a while, all they've said four WM factions this year and two hordes factions next year. It could take quite a long time until anyone sees a modern mk4 version of their army come out unless you're in the initial run. The legacy rules are meant to fill the gap in the meantime and then eventually be relgated to the "unlimited" format so PP doesnt have to try to balance the pile of old models they dont make anymore. Every faction will have something that they can play in MK4 by October '22. The longer timeline is for how long it will take for ALL existing releases to get MK4 rules:  Edit: AnEdgelord posted:Those are legacy rules for models that are now permanently out of print and can only be played in a specific format. Every existing faction will get two Armies (the new term for theme forces) that will be playable in the new Prime format. It would not surprise me to see that Cryx get a Bane Army and Menoth an Exemplar Army that make it into Prime and not just Legacy. They've also used the mini factions like CG and Grymkin of examples of factions who will keep a large majority (if not all of) their existing releases in these Prime armies. CaptCommy fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jul 29, 2022 |
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Jul 29, 2022 05:20
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rydiafan posted:WMH basically died in every meta. Hopefully the new edition can attract new players., because the handful of old guard out there weren't keeping PP afloat. I more or less meant that I'm not sure why I'm so invested, it's not like I'd get to play Mk4 even if it tickled my fancy. PP had to do something drastic to avoid completely dying, that much is true. But too be perfectly frank, I'm not sure that PP has what it takes to pull this off. It seems like you'd need more people and more resources than they have to pull off a big change like this, and given their previous fits and starts I'm not sure they can make Mk4 a success. Don't get me wrong, I hope I'm off base and PP succeeds. I'd never want them to go under or for people to stop enjoying the game, I guess I'm slowly coming to the realization (like I did with 40k) that this game is not for me anymore, and it's time to sell my poo poo.
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Jul 29, 2022 08:01
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It looks like Discount Games is dumping their stock at 40% off, if anyone is feeling confident
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Jul 29, 2022 11:24
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AnEdgelord posted:Those are legacy rules for models that are now permanently out of print and can only be played in a specific format. At least for right now the only faction symbols that are on the timeline are Orgoth, Cygnar, Khador and a fourth I dont recognize but seems to be related to the elves. Those lists are for "unlimited", but that's not the same as the list of models going out of production. Models that were created be traditional sculpting are done. Ones created in the CAD era may continue in production. And some CAD era models will be in Prime. It's okay to have doubts about how successful Mk. 4 will be. This item seems like a lesser problem. On the discontinuing model front, though, a whole bunch of those models have actually been out of production for years already because the molds are shot. It was hard to notice because there were not a lot of new players coming in, but those few were finding there were holes in the range. Models they flat out could not get, at least new - which is a hopeless situation for a company that makes money by selling those models. Some sort of mass retirement was needed even apart from the SKU bloat problem. I worry more about a related point. Which is, where retail channels have kept going with warmachine, they now have a ton of stock that may not have rules of any kind for an extended period of time. Hope PP does some sort of buy back since it appears, going forward, they plan on depending on retail channels. They can't afford more burned bridges there. Maneck fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Jul 29, 2022 |
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Jul 29, 2022 12:07
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Hipster Occultist posted:But too be perfectly frank, I'm not sure that PP has what it takes to pull this off. It seems like you'd need more people and more resources than they have to pull off a big change like this, and given their previous fits and starts I'm not sure they can make Mk4 a success. Yeah, that's the biggest open question. It's fine for Warcaster and MonPoc and Riot Quest to be smaller, niche games but Warmachine is the flagship and was once a real presence and PP is unquestionably a depleted company these days. I sincerely hope they have enough in the tank to pull this off and I think making the game more accessible, both from a rules perspective and from a focusing the SKUs one, is a promising step but I also think that, given the damage done previously, we have to temper our expectations of what success looks like here: even if they pull this off, I'm not sure Warmachine will ever reach the heights it once was at and that might be ok.
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Jul 29, 2022 12:54
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Yeah it's wild to me as someone who was once pretty into this game to think about that point where there were international tournaments and people were making reasonably good-faith arguments that Privateer might eclipse GW and look at where they are now. Looking back I can see a series of decisions that I think were ultimately poor ones but it's still remarkable. I was keeping my poo poo anyway because the painted stuff I'm reasonably proud of and some of it might see use on the D&D table, but I also expect the secondary market to be essentially zero, especially since one of the armies I have really seems to be getting Tomb Kings-ed.
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Jul 29, 2022 13:26
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Ironically I think now is a perfect time for a relaunch, the wargaming space has gotten a lot bigger in the past few years, to the point that GW is attending San Diego Comicon this year, and there is more space for a game like Warmachine to breathe without having to count on cannibalizing GW's customers. I think that as long as PP can get people's eyeballs on MKIV and not gently caress up the launch they can carve a space in the industry for themselves again. Plus people ARE interested even if MKIII is basically dead right now. Goonhammer is a very popular site for wargaming news and discussion and they published an article about the MKIV relaunch the day it happened. https://www.goonhammer.com/new-edition-of-warmachine-announcement-goonhammer-reacts/
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Jul 29, 2022 15:14
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For me I just really like the setting so I'd much rather the game kept existing than not 
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Jul 29, 2022 15:33
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AnEdgelord posted:the wargaming space has gotten a lot bigger in the past few years, to the point that GW is attending San Diego Comicon this year, and there is more space for a game like Warmachine to breathe without having to count on cannibalizing GW's customers I know X-Wing is big but I feel like it's mostly just GW getting bigger with returning fans & new fans alike, rather than new games popping up and staying afloat. Admittedly I'm a bit out of touch with wargaming but I still pay attention to Facebook group chatter in my local community it seems like it's exclusively 1 of those 2 games. Maybe the occasional surge for a new game that then dies within 6 months. And as you said if GW is going to Comicon, I feel like other games are going to have to eat GW's customers/potential customers. The proposition for any 'alternative' wargame to me has always felt like, "Hey dude, like the idea of Warhammer but you don't actually like the game? We got what you're looking for". Maybe the ASOIAF / LOTR / Star Wars games can stand on their own by appealing to fans of the IP rather than wargaming itself, but I don't think that applies to PP.
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Jul 29, 2022 15:41
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It took me ages to get rid of my pom army for like 1/3 of the price. I'm not falling for this again
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Jul 29, 2022 15:50
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Sab669 posted:I know X-Wing is big but I feel like it's mostly just GW getting bigger with returning fans & new fans alike, rather than new games popping up and staying afloat. Admittedly I'm a bit out of touch with wargaming but I still pay attention to Facebook group chatter in my local community it seems like it's exclusively 1 of those 2 games. Maybe the occasional surge for a new game that then dies within 6 months. Honestly I thought X-wing was almost completely dead. In my local store we have a a group for 40k, Aos, Blood Bowl, Kings of War, Infinity, Star Wars Legion and ASOIAF with a few people Ive talked to being interested in Malifaux eventually as well. Im living in the Scranton area which is hardly a major city and thats more playgroups than I encountered in some stores when I lived in St. Louis. Even online I see significantly more chatter about wargames in general across the internet.
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Jul 29, 2022 17:23
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rydiafan posted:What existing players? I broadly agree with your framing, it just seems to me like they're making the game worse on purpose. Retiring whole swaths of the range is unfortunate but certainly understandable, cutting mechanics like facing and free strikes isn't to my taste but once again makes sense to achieve their goals, but some of the changes don't feel grounded in experience. I guess what I'm saying is I don't have faith in PP to execute on their vision, but best of luck to them.
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Jul 29, 2022 17:47
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I was dubious of some of the move stuff, but in a play test last night in the local group people were very positive on the changes. Which changes are concerning you?
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Jul 29, 2022 17:51
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Some of the changes coming from warcaster might sound awful but honestly feel great and aid ease of play considerably.
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Jul 29, 2022 19:51
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AnEdgelord posted:Honestly I thought X-wing was almost completely dead. In my local store we have a a group for 40k, Aos, Blood Bowl, Kings of War, Infinity, Star Wars Legion and ASOIAF with a few people Ive talked to being interested in Malifaux eventually as well. Im living in the Scranton area which is hardly a major city and thats more playgroups than I encountered in some stores when I lived in St. Louis. Even online I see significantly more chatter about wargames in general across the internet. Yeah I haven't seen anyone playing X-Wing in a long time. I've seen mostly 40K, ASOIAF, and Legion at my FLGS. Something must've gone wrong with their X-Wing 2E launch at some point. Apparently there's some kind of 2.5? I dunno. I heard nothing but good things about it during 1.0 but then Something Changed. Anyways I always liked WMH, it was my favorite skirmish game to actually sit down and play, for one reason or another. Here's hoping MK4 is a good boost for the game. Might even paint some of my old poo poo I have lying around.
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Jul 29, 2022 23:21
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Looks like faction four is elf vampires https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/07/29/warmachine-mkiv-lore-overview-dusk-house-kallyss/
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Jul 30, 2022 02:26
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AnEdgelord posted:Looks like faction four is elf vampires Yo this is loving sick actually
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Jul 30, 2022 03:08
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That's pretty much exactly what I was expecting and it's excellent.
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Jul 30, 2022 03:13
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Goreshade was always one of my favorite characters so this owns
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Jul 30, 2022 03:20
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Man he really hosed ios up huh
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Jul 30, 2022 04:32
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What a jerk
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Jul 30, 2022 05:03
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I wonder if other Dusk faction armies will be other elf houses or other 'outcast' colectives.
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Jul 30, 2022 05:12
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Privateer Press posted:The models supplied in the preview battlegroups have been manufactured in resin on 3D printers. Just like how zooming in on an image printed in a book you would see the individual ink dots, or zooming in on the computer screen you’re reading this on would reveal individual pixels, if you put a 3D printed model under a magnifying lens or photograph it and zoom in on that image, you’re going to see the individual build layers that make up the model. If you typically view your miniatures at 1000% magnification, then 3D printed models might not be for you. But if you typically view your models with the naked eye, we are confident that the micro layers will not be visible, just like you don’t see the halftone in printed images or the pixels on your high-definition television. If you do easily see the build layers without the assistance of extreme magnification, then chances are you received a bad print, in which case we’re going to happily replace that for you. More on that in the next section.
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Aug 2, 2022 20:11
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Depends on if they approach the quality of 3D printed mold masters. I've been able to spot the layer lines on pewter minis (Infinity, later PP figures) that were mastered via print. It disappears once you prime the model.
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Aug 2, 2022 21:34
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I didn't think it was possible, but those hosed up vampire elves have me excited for a Privateer Press release. Which I think would be the first time since uh the Convergence were announced in 2012???
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Aug 2, 2022 21:46
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do the orgoth models look any less busy when they aren't painted in the studio's overloaded NMM style?
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Aug 2, 2022 21:48
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Gato The Elder posted:do the orgoth models look any less busy when they aren't painted in the studio's overloaded NMM style? I think so but I haven't seen a ton of examples. Hate that style tho
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Aug 2, 2022 21:49
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I actually think the Orgoth would look alot better if you paint them in Black Legion/Warriors of Chaos style Black with Gold trim
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Aug 2, 2022 22:07
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Gato The Elder posted:do the orgoth models look any less busy when they aren't painted in the studio's overloaded NMM style? Looks like it, judging from this Insider post about painting them. Still pretty busy, because they're PP models but definitely less chaotic than the NMM-fest that is the official studio paint job.
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Aug 2, 2022 22:11
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darnon posted:Depends on if they approach the quality of 3D printed mold masters. I've been able to spot the layer lines on pewter minis (Infinity, later PP figures) that were mastered via print. It disappears once you prime the model. I forgot that I have some Warcaster figures and you're right, I can't see any layer lines under a coat of primer and Contrast. I'll have to stick to complaining about all the duplicate sculpts. rantmo posted:Looks like it, judging from this Insider post about painting them. Still pretty busy, because they're PP models but definitely less chaotic than the NMM-fest that is the official studio paint job. Reddit says that the Orgoth were commissioned outside the studio.
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Aug 2, 2022 22:59
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They were yeah. You can see the difference between them and the Cygnar. That huge fist on the cygnar heavy looks sick as hell though.
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Aug 2, 2022 23:02
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If the lines vanish after primer than I kinda don't care about lines. At least it won't be the wretched plastic from the mk3 battleboxes.
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Aug 2, 2022 23:04
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If they're describing what I think they are you can barely see them without primer anyways unless you hold it right up to your eye
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Aug 2, 2022 23:18
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