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Ace Transmuter
May 19, 2017

I like video games

Harrow posted:

I had exactly one vote that I just plain couldn't succeed at in my first playthrough. I even created a second save so I could save scum and see if it was possible (since I decided I'd play out whatever happened on my first playthrough). It was the vote to smuggle the salt.

No matter what choices I picked--even looking up the optimal ones--I couldn't convince a single person, not even the undecided one. Turns out I had really, really, really low Utility. So I can confirm that it's possible for a choice to just be completely impossible because of a low conviction score. Not sure how low a score has to be, but it's possible.

Yeah that's the vote I failed miserably. Had a feeling as I had been not really leaning Utility at all.

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Yinlock
Oct 22, 2008

Looper posted:

iirc votes have the largest singular effect on serenoa's conviction scores, but i like that it gets heavily affected by conversations with strangers too, he's considering his words and the impact they'll have on people. it all makes sense to me

Votes get a maximum of +40(+10 for everyone you try to sway that way whether it succeeds or not, -10 for each person you try to sway the opposite way(only if you're trying to get cute and play both sides, otherwise no penalty). There's also +50 in the event of a tie and Serenoa having to make the final decision.

NPC answers get you a flat +50 for that choice. There's like 3000ish total points from them alone(depending on route choice), and they're the single biggest contributor to conviction scores.

e: unless you want to really grind tavern fights for those piddly +1 or 2 boosts every once in a while but uh don't do that

e2:

Harrow posted:

I liked it specifically because it wasn't just a system where the player gets to make any decision they want. That you have to convince people to go along with it means your choices up to then (represented by your conviction scores) matter in getting the outcomes you want, otherwise no dialogue choice outside of "which path do we take?" would ever matter. I like that it's possible for Serenoa just to not be the kind of person who can convincingly make an argument to smuggle illicit salt or flood the capital city depending on how you've played him up to then.

Similarly, the requirements for conviction recruits only encourage you to game the system if you look up what the requirements are. If you're playing blind, there's no real way to know that, oh, if you get 750 Liberty and 1050 Utility you get an old lady who punches real good, not until NG+ anyway, at which point the game reveals all the numbers to you and encourages you to game them to get the other outcomes you didn't see the first time.

The game tells you upfront that your scores will affect votes and who joins you, which kind of encourages gaming it NPC answer-wise. I'd just prefer it if recruits were tied more to decisions themselves than arbitrary point totals.

ex: Giving up Roland could get you a Wolffort soldier who never died in a siege, while protecting him could get you a Landroi survivor. Things like that.

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jul 20, 2022

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Yinlock posted:

The game tells you upfront that your scores will affect votes and who joins you, which kind of encourages gaming it NPC answer-wise. I'd just prefer it if recruits were tied more to decisions themselves than arbitrary point totals.

ex: Giving up Roland could get you a Wolffort soldier who never died in a siege, while protecting him could get you a Landroi survivor. Things like that.

Sure, that would be a more interesting way to do recruitment, that I agree with. It does get a bit jarring when most recruits just get a little scene and then show up and go "hey, I wanna join your army." I just meant that I like the voting system as-is.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012
i definitely would've liked for more recruits to be plot based

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

hey look,
a post
I said this before but even just having like the recruits you do got show up on the exploration maps and make comments woulda added a lot.

Yinlock
Oct 22, 2008

So to get this out of my head while it's fresh, Benedict seems to have a game-long Thing where he's kind of low-key prejudiced against the Roselle? It's iffy because there's reasonable explanations for a lot of it once you know his real motive

During the Roselle protection debate he always makes sure to refer to the Roselle and the people of the Wolfort demense as seperate groups, and voting to save them is one of the few times he seems frustrated with a decision. Serenoa backing up Frederica's logic at the 2nd stage of the negotiation route is pretty much the only time he directly backtalks Serenoa outside of Frederica's route proper, and right before the big route split he immediately starts talking down to Frederica after she(correctly, according to his and the GR epilogues) intuits that he has no intention of ever really addressing the issue if he can help it.

Of course, his real goal is to make sure Destra's line can't be used as political trading cards ever again so he might just be frustrated at Serenoa preferring helping people over accruing political power. But he's also fine with the Roland route where they give up everything to Idore.

It's not frothing hatred like Hyzante's leadership but he doesn't really seem to see them as people, at least until the GR epilogue where he acknowledges that he had no intention to help them and feels genuine guilt about it

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jul 23, 2022

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009

I never got the impression he was prejudiced against the Roselle. He just ranks them all as lower in importance than the Big Pressing Concerns. I would expect the same attitude towards some random village, it's just that a random village never present themselves as an obstacle.

Frederica had him bang to rights. The oppressed simply don't feature on the time tables of conquerers.

Blackbelt Bobman
Jul 17, 2004

I don't need friends! I've been
manipulatin' you since the start!
All so I can something,
something X-Blade!


Benedict is basically a Libertarian, in that he doesn’t necessarily actively want to harm oppressed & marginalized people but basically everything he does and believes would inevitably harm oppressed and marginalized people.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!
Meanwhile Frederica lets an entire continent burn so she can walk a shipload of starving, malnourished people into the desert in the hope they'll reach something awesome on the other side.

Blackbelt Bobman
Jul 17, 2004

I don't need friends! I've been
manipulatin' you since the start!
All so I can something,
something X-Blade!


Fangz posted:

Meanwhile Frederica lets an entire continent burn so she can walk a shipload of starving, malnourished people into the desert in the hope they'll reach something awesome on the other side.

Yeah but she was right, and all it cost was Serenoa’s life lol that’s a bittersweet ending.

Senerio
Oct 19, 2009

Roëmænce is ælive!
Far as endings go, imo, it''s GE>Fred>Ben>The Failure State of any of the above>Roland

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon

Fangz posted:

Meanwhile Frederica lets an entire continent burn so she can walk a shipload of starving, malnourished people into the desert in the hope they'll reach something awesome on the other side.

And she's right to do so.

If that really burns your brisket, there's a decent alternative in failing to find the pink rock in chapter 12; everyone dies in a heroic last stand, with their honor intact.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Blackbelt Bobman posted:

Yeah but she was right, and all it cost was Serenoa’s life lol that’s a bittersweet ending.

I mean, her ending does involve Norzelia being plunged into a much longer, protracted war than any of the other endings. That's a legitimate downside and results in a lot of innocent people suffering and dying because the second Saltiron War keeps going for years. I feel like everyone glosses over that bit.

There's one truly bad ending (Roland's, obviously) but the other two non-golden endings both sacrifice the wellbeing of lots and lots of people to achieve what they achieve. I guess I'd still say Frederica's is happier than Benedict's if only because nobody invents capitalism in Frederica's ending, but then again, it does look like Gustadolph might be positioned to ultimately win Saltiron War Part II with Benedict's help so who knows.

Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jul 25, 2022

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!
Frederica's ending is far worse than Benedict's ending.

1. Given the events of that ending the entire number of people you save (assuming no one dies on the journey) can fit into one ship. That really isn't a lot of people! The roselle you rescue aren't even all the roselle. There's roselle in side stories living on the fringes of Glenbrook.
2. Gustadolph is implied to win the Saltiron war. Whatever happens in the Benedict ending is at least softened by Serenoa and co's intent to do good within whatever restricted amount of political power they grant themselves. Gustadolph running Norzellia? Not so much. Pretty much every negative aspect of the Benedict ending is probably present, only more so.
3. Also insert non-specified damage from the war.
4. There isn't anything actually stopping the Roselle from leaving in the Benedict ending, given apparently you can literally walk there.

(I'll also omit the tiresome argument that some people seem to think capitalism and transitional economic turmoil is worse than literal feudalism here)

The Sean
Apr 17, 2005

Am I handsome now?


Blackbelt Bobman posted:

Benedict is basically a Libertarian, in that he doesn’t necessarily actively want to harm oppressed & marginalized people but basically everything he does and believes would inevitably harm oppressed and marginalized people.

Lol this is totally on point.

Yinlock
Oct 22, 2008

Fangz posted:

Frederica's ending is far worse than Benedict's ending.

1. Given the events of that ending the entire number of people you save (assuming no one dies on the journey) can fit into one ship. That really isn't a lot of people! The roselle you rescue aren't even all the roselle. There's roselle in side stories living on the fringes of Glenbrook.
2. Gustadolph is implied to win the Saltiron war. Whatever happens in the Benedict ending is at least softened by Serenoa and co's intent to do good within whatever restricted amount of political power they grant themselves. Gustadolph running Norzellia? Not so much. Pretty much every negative aspect of the Benedict ending is probably present, only more so.
3. Also insert non-specified damage from the war.
4. There isn't anything actually stopping the Roselle from leaving in the Benedict ending, given apparently you can literally walk there.

(I'll also omit the tiresome argument that some people seem to think capitalism and transitional economic turmoil is worse than literal feudalism here)

All Benedict's ending really does is exchange one oppression for another. It's probably the most depressing overall(Roland's is more farcical) because everyone is forced to sacrifice their values to get by until they're casually dismissing the woes of the people they swore to protect. And there's a good reason why it's ending still is Serenoa and Frederica looking absolutely miserable while Benedict has a big goofy smile.

Also "transitional economic turmoil" my dude we literally see someone starve to death in the epilogue while Serenoa & co eagerly give more big contracts to merchants and Benedict tut-tuts any thought of helping the people driven to murder just to survive because that would be "unfair". it's full-blown capitalism baby and if you're not already rich and/or well-connected then go gently caress yourself. There's also the fact that Roland, backed by Hyzante's greatest cockroach, is going to make good on his promise to end Serenoa if he starts acting like he acts in the epilogue

Frederica's lets you be Fantasy John Brown(with more success) and I can think of way worse fates. The crux of it is that you don't have the resources or connections to do things the GR way, and Serenoa recognizes that now that the cat's out of the bag this poo poo is never going to end and Wolfort can't really do anything about it without either seriously compromising their principles and/or becoming part of the problem, so they might as well do the right thing then get out before everything goes to hell.

Also notably in the GR Frederica's the only one of the main 3 who never voices regret over her choices during the epilogue. Because she's the only one with nothing to be ashamed of.

e: edited a bunch because i can't words good

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jul 29, 2022

Yinlock
Oct 22, 2008

Bug Squash posted:

I never got the impression he was prejudiced against the Roselle. He just ranks them all as lower in importance than the Big Pressing Concerns. I would expect the same attitude towards some random village, it's just that a random village never present themselves as an obstacle.

Frederica had him bang to rights. The oppressed simply don't feature on the time tables of conquerers.

Yeah this is where I'm at I think, he just always seems to get more sassy when you decide to do the more difficult right thing rather than immediately scorched-earth the situation. Looking back it's a pretty good hint that his priority isn't exactly just "protect wolfort demense". or in other words

Blackbelt Bobman posted:

Benedict is basically a Libertarian, in that he doesn’t necessarily actively want to harm oppressed & marginalized people but basically everything he does and believes would inevitably harm oppressed and marginalized people.

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jul 29, 2022

Ace Transmuter
May 19, 2017

I like video games
What's the difficulty curve like in New Game+? How quickly or slowly does it take to get through additional runs through the game?

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
Ultimately the choice between people who are actively and horrifically discriminated against on screen and the theoretical poor man on the street who you never seen ends up with a lot of people picking the people on screen.

I think it is hugely unfair to claim that the Utility ending is just as bad for the man on the street as the Morality ending is.

Benedict's peace is built on a knife edge to be sure, but there is no active conflict in Norzelia. There is inequality and that is bad but it is absolutely nowhere near the level of what happens in Morality where there is a second active conflict that leaves Gustadolph in charge of all Norzelia by the end. (Which in of itself assumes that he's willing to maintain the peace with Exharme, which I contend neither would and leads to another active conflict). Gustadolph who would go way way harder on destructive capitalism than Serenoa with Frederica in his left ear.

Contrast to the Utility ending and yeah you have bad capitalism, nowhere near as bad as Gustadolph and maybe a second war brewing, way better than an active second war with the threat of a third.


Ace Transmuter posted:

What's the difficulty curve like in New Game+? How quickly or slowly does it take to get through additional runs through the game?

I wouldn't say it's meaningfully more or less difficult than NG, it's just different (Apart from mission 1 which is an arse)

Ace Transmuter
May 19, 2017

I like video games
I was just curious if NG+ was something I could how through to get to the newer parts

Blackbelt Bobman
Jul 17, 2004

I don't need friends! I've been
manipulatin' you since the start!
All so I can something,
something X-Blade!


NG+ starts with enemies at a similar level to the final mission in your first run (30ish?) and continues to increase until everyone is lv 50. Then every enemy is lv 50 in every subsequent playthrough.

The first mission is always super hard, but after that the difficulty becomes reasonable.

Edit: skipping the cutscenes you’ve already seen is the biggest time saver in NG+.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
NG+ is an absolute monster in the first chapter and stays on the mean side for a bit if you, like me, want to rotate in some underleveled characters who didn’t see a lot of use on your previous playthrough.

Fortunately, the difficulty setting lets you scale any way you want for any battle. I just cranked it down to easy (maybe even very easy, I forget) for the first battle and then started scaling it back up once my new crew was broken in.

Yinlock
Oct 22, 2008

Ace Transmuter posted:

What's the difficulty curve like in New Game+? How quickly or slowly does it take to get through additional runs through the game?

Mission 1 is an absolute ball-buster of death, the rest is pretty much on-curve with the rest of the game if a bit easier because you have way more elite promotions and skill access(the kudos shop will restock with 5 medals of valor 3-4 times during the playthrough). Enemies only gain one level per story mission(till they hit the max of 50) on NG+ so keeping everyone leveled is easier.

Protip: Run Roland to the corner to bait Trish for a turn or two, do not attempt to bring him close to the main group until you've thinned things out or you will get slaughtered because you cannot possibly handle all of them at once. If you benched Benedict completely you may run into issues, if he's just a couple levels behind due to route split availability then you'll be fine.

Also the bandits are complete assholes who can jump into the water, move past you, then jump out to backstab you in one turn, so be careful of that. They hit super fuckin' hard.


Natural 20 posted:

Ultimately the choice between people who are actively and horrifically discriminated against on screen and the theoretical poor man on the street who you never seen ends up with a lot of people picking the people on screen.

I think it is hugely unfair to claim that the Utility ending is just as bad for the man on the street as the Morality ending is.

Benedict's peace is built on a knife edge to be sure, but there is no active conflict in Norzelia. There is inequality and that is bad but it is absolutely nowhere near the level of what happens in Morality where there is a second active conflict that leaves Gustadolph in charge of all Norzelia by the end. (Which in of itself assumes that he's willing to maintain the peace with Exharme, which I contend neither would and leads to another active conflict). Gustadolph who would go way way harder on destructive capitalism than Serenoa with Frederica in his left ear.

Contrast to the Utility ending and yeah you have bad capitalism, nowhere near as bad as Gustadolph and maybe a second war brewing, way better than an active second war with the threat of a third.


I wouldn't say it's meaningfully more or less difficult than NG, it's just different (Apart from mission 1 which is an arse)

Serenoa has Frederica in his left ear, but also Benedict in his right, and we see which one he actually listens to. I mean I agree it's not a worst-case scenario(that would be the Utility route, Benedict's is Freedom) but it's still not a solution either and is fairly depressing overall, it's basically just Benedict forcing the outcome he personally wants and everyone else kinda has to follow along because they're out of options(which is why he does most of the talking, Serenoa doesn't really want to be here but welp there's no turning back). Morality also isn't totally sunshine and roses, of course. Both are making the best of a bad situation, it's just that Morality is the one where you ultimately don't compromise your principles(which is generally what TS Morality is about, it's the line in the sand. Yeah you have to do some shady poo poo as a ruler but there has to be a limit otherwise you're just a self-serving rear end in a top hat).

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Jul 30, 2022

Ace Transmuter
May 19, 2017

I like video games
Been re-reading the thread now that I'm less worried about spoilers.

The English voice acting really does pick up towards the end of the game. The scene where Benedict and Serenoa get in a verbal fight and then an actual fight was awesome.

Chapter 18 on Frederica's route was intense as hell. Cornered and vastly outnumbered and outclassed by the enemy (even at the recommended level). Still not quite sure how I ended up surviving that one. Fred and the archers put in the bulk of the work. Ended up with only four characters left alive at the end.

Fred's weapon skill was incredibly helpful in the mock battle with all the chests on the cliff. Feels a bit bad having her light up all the Rosellan guards up there, but it made a nice path to all that money in the end.

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!

Ace Transmuter posted:

Fred's weapon skill was incredibly helpful in the mock battle with all the chests on the cliff. Feels a bit bad having her light up all the Rosellan guards up there, but it made a nice path to all that money in the end.

imagining a fan comic of Serenoa sitting at the bar acting like a middle school edgelord and telling Hossabara, "but like imagine if we had to fight Rosellans and Frederica had to set them on fire. isn't that hosed up???"

Item Getter
Dec 14, 2015

Ace Transmuter posted:

Fred's weapon skill was incredibly helpful in the mock battle with all the chests on the cliff. Feels a bit bad having her light up all the Rosellan guards up there, but it made a nice path to all that money in the end.

I usually send Anna to go up there and use her act twice to open 2 chests each turn while ignoring the enemies and letting everyone else do their thing. Can also put he resurrection bangle on her at low levels. It's a good battle to grind for money in the early part of NG+.

Yinlock
Oct 22, 2008

Ace Transmuter posted:

Been re-reading the thread now that I'm less worried about spoilers.

The English voice acting really does pick up towards the end of the game. The scene where Benedict and Serenoa get in a verbal fight and then an actual fight was awesome.

Chapter 18 on Frederica's route was intense as hell. Cornered and vastly outnumbered and outclassed by the enemy (even at the recommended level). Still not quite sure how I ended up surviving that one. Fred and the archers put in the bulk of the work. Ended up with only four characters left alive at the end.

Fred's weapon skill was incredibly helpful in the mock battle with all the chests on the cliff. Feels a bit bad having her light up all the Rosellan guards up there, but it made a nice path to all that money in the end.

Yeah 18 is nuts. Especially if you're an idiot like me and gloss over time stop being an aoe when reading the boss' skills. yeah that's fine i like having my most important frontliners just unable to do poo poo for 3 turns, this is extremely good to me.

Frederica's weapon skill doesn't see use too often, but when it's good it's really good. Trivialized a few otherwise-rough battles for me.

Ace Transmuter
May 19, 2017

I like video games
My process so far has been to get my entire army up to the recommended level before each story battle. It has definitely felt like a bit of drag at times but I genuinely enjoy using every character so far and they all have their use cases, even if I have do have favorites. But these have also fluctuated as time has gone on. Corentin went from being my favorite mage from moving to the middle of the pack. I was singing Hughette's praises upthread and now she's probably my least favorite of the archers I have (but I mean, compared to mini-Anna with a bow and actual damage and Old-Man-Delete-Anyone-Anywhere-From-The-Map it's stiff competition). I'm finally getting a handle on Medina's TP-raining abilities. Even the less strictly useful characters, like Jens and Decimal, are still fun as hell to use (I get Jens is god-mode with traps but I'm garbage at reading enemy AI I guess so I only succeed like half the time).

In any case, I think I prefer this method to having to play catch-up with a bunch of scrubs for the endgame. And I'm liking the story but I'm not so invested that I've got a driving need to skip grinding to see what happens next.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Ace Transmuter posted:

In any case, I think I prefer this method to having to play catch-up with a bunch of scrubs for the endgame. And I'm liking the story but I'm not so invested that I've got a driving need to skip grinding to see what happens next.

In case you do decide to just leave some people behind, the EXP curve means that catching up underleveled units is really fast in this. Like if a unit is more than 3 or 4 levels below the battle's recommended level, they'll gain a full level for every action they take.

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009

Harrow posted:

In case you do decide to just leave some people behind, the EXP curve means that catching up underleveled units is really fast in this. Like if a unit is more than 3 or 4 levels below the battle's recommended level, they'll gain a full level for every action they take.

And they retain levels of you lose. I got up to speed on new game by losing the intro fight three times.

Ace Transmuter
May 19, 2017

I like video games

Harrow posted:

In case you do decide to just leave some people behind, the EXP curve means that catching up underleveled units is really fast in this. Like if a unit is more than 3 or 4 levels below the battle's recommended level, they'll gain a full level for every action they take.

That's probably more efficient overall, but I think I'd only leave someone behind if I felt that I couldn't use them at all in any functional way, and I doubt that will happen seeing as how I'm over 2/3rds of my way through the roster.

Epi Lepi
Oct 29, 2009

You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants

Ace Transmuter posted:

My process so far has been to get my entire army up to the recommended level before each story battle. It has definitely felt like a bit of drag at times but I genuinely enjoy using every character so far and they all have their use cases, even if I have do have favorites. But these have also fluctuated as time has gone on. Corentin went from being my favorite mage from moving to the middle of the pack. I was singing Hughette's praises upthread and now she's probably my least favorite of the archers I have (but I mean, compared to mini-Anna with a bow and actual damage and Old-Man-Delete-Anyone-Anywhere-From-The-Map it's stiff competition). I'm finally getting a handle on Medina's TP-raining abilities. Even the less strictly useful characters, like Jens and Decimal, are still fun as hell to use (I get Jens is god-mode with traps but I'm garbage at reading enemy AI I guess so I only succeed like half the time).

In any case, I think I prefer this method to having to play catch-up with a bunch of scrubs for the endgame. And I'm liking the story but I'm not so invested that I've got a driving need to skip grinding to see what happens next.

When Corentin gets the TP gain ability when standing on a frozen tile he gets good again, it's really easy to place frost underneath him through either his/someone else's spells or throwing an ice stone on the ground beneath him.

buddychrist10
Nov 4, 2009

Obtuse.....even hokey.
Yeah Corentin's usefulness curve is kind of similar to Benedict. He's good at the start of the game, then falls behind as Frederica and Ezana outpace him for damage. Then he gets Glacial Moon and the TP on Ice and he's back to being really good.

Yinlock
Oct 22, 2008

dude789 posted:

Yeah Corentin's usefulness curve is kind of similar to Benedict. He's good at the start of the game, then falls behind as Frederica and Ezana outpace him for damage. Then he gets Glacial Moon and the TP on Ice and he's back to being really good.

I find him mediocre at the start, mostly because a lot of his skillset flat-out sucks without TP on Ice. TS units in general kind of share a flaw in that they're balanced with their endgame kits in mind so some units are just big farts until they become gods.

e: Roland aside the story group are probably the most balanced and work fine start-to-finish, Anna drops off a bit near the end but she can still hold her own.

Ace Transmuter posted:

My process so far has been to get my entire army up to the recommended level before each story battle. It has definitely felt like a bit of drag at times but I genuinely enjoy using every character so far and they all have their use cases, even if I have do have favorites. But these have also fluctuated as time has gone on. Corentin went from being my favorite mage from moving to the middle of the pack. I was singing Hughette's praises upthread and now she's probably my least favorite of the archers I have (but I mean, compared to mini-Anna with a bow and actual damage and Old-Man-Delete-Anyone-Anywhere-From-The-Map it's stiff competition). I'm finally getting a handle on Medina's TP-raining abilities. Even the less strictly useful characters, like Jens and Decimal, are still fun as hell to use (I get Jens is god-mode with traps but I'm garbage at reading enemy AI I guess so I only succeed like half the time).

In any case, I think I prefer this method to having to play catch-up with a bunch of scrubs for the endgame. And I'm liking the story but I'm not so invested that I've got a driving need to skip grinding to see what happens next.

This is how I played too, but I mostly ended up using the story team + whoever seems handy that map.

It's easy to count out Hughette until you have to play a rough mission without half the enemy team being blinded or rooted to one spot. I suck at trap-reads too, for me enemies are generally super-inconsistent about running into traps. Sometimes they'll specifically move around them, sometimes they'll just barrel into one immediately. Most annoyingly they'll sometimes use it for movement after an attack or just trigger it to get it out of the way of someone else. Best you can do is put them in stairways/chokepoints* or directly behind someone in backstab range. You can also sometimes use their trap-awareness to your advantage to get the enemies lining up single-file because they want to avoid your trap.

e: *unless that chokepoint is in front of one of the fire trap statues and you forgot that contact damage is a thing, then you accidently trigger them via flying enemy and cry. this definitely never happened to me. twice.

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Aug 4, 2022

Ace Transmuter
May 19, 2017

I like video games
Yeah, I've got a pretty solid core team for the story battles:
Serenoa, Archibald, and Trish for ranged DPS (I gave Serenoa the thing that boosts his stats but causes him damage every turn, so I keep him behind Erador and snipe with Hawk Dive)
Geela for healing
Erador for tanking
Medina & Julio for TP generation
1 or 2 slots for whichever mages are most useful depending on the map and enemies
1-4 utility slots depending on map and enemies (Jens & Anna for height scaling, Decimal for small maps, etc.)

I keep everyone up to pace on levels because I never know who I'm going to need for those utility slots. Even Hoss & Roland have their uses.

Finished Chapter 19 on the Frederica route (I was actually expecting it to be the final battle!), and after how frantic and difficult the previous battle was, this one was definitely a breather. "We're gonna give you an elevated platform to defend while we slowly advance on you through massive fields of water tiles, I sure hope you don't lightning us all to death before we can even reach you!" Boss didn't even bother advancing themself until I had fully wiped out the rest of the enemies.

One last battle before I dive into NG+! It's nice to get to grind on a battle without a time limit again.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Ace Transmuter posted:

Serenoa, Archibald, and Trish for ranged DPS (I gave Serenoa the thing that boosts his stats but causes him damage every turn, so I keep him behind Erador and snipe with Hawk Dive)

No Hughette??? :psyduck:

I kid, Hughette rules but there are also a lot of great characters in this. Archibald's amazing and I didn't really notice until NG+.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
I don't even know how to respond to dismissing Jens, I think he was my MVP on every "kill the boss" map because eventually the boss would either blunder into a trap that pushed them away from all their allies and into my kill zone, or one that sent them off a cliff and either having to go the long way around or climbing into another trap at the top of a ladder that would send them right back off again while I cleared out their mooks.

Most of those weren't planned, but hey, set enough traps and one of them will win the map for you!

Ace Transmuter
May 19, 2017

I like video games

Harrow posted:

No Hughette??? :psyduck:

I kid, Hughette rules but there are also a lot of great characters in this. Archibald's amazing and I didn't really notice until NG+.

Hughette often fills a utility slot for me, especially in a map with a lot of elevation changes I can have her abuse. Her range and damage keep her from being a key part of my offense, but she's one of the best at crowd control. Between Fury and Blind you can pretty much lockdown any unit.

But yeah, I was singing Hughette's praises through the first half of my run upthread. She was the total MVP of some earlier maps.

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

=^-^=

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

I don't even know how to respond to dismissing Jens, I think he was my MVP on every "kill the boss" map because eventually the boss would either blunder into a trap that pushed them away from all their allies and into my kill zone, or one that sent them off a cliff and either having to go the long way around or climbing into another trap at the top of a ladder that would send them right back off again while I cleared out their mooks.

Most of those weren't planned, but hey, set enough traps and one of them will win the map for you!

He's so situational but just outrageously fun. I cheesed the HELL out of (chp 13 or 14 spoiler) the Avlora fight in the fountain by setting a trap that launched her directly between three of my waiting melee units. I closed the trap on the other side, used the Stop quietus on her, and she never got another turn before I turned her into dust.

https://twitter.com/pox_please/status/1528554150585171970

Poque fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Aug 4, 2022

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The Sean
Apr 17, 2005

Am I handsome now?


I'm on my 3rd playthrough now and decided to mess with the display settings. I'm going off of the top of my head at this point but I disabled the dark edges and brightened the graphics in game and am really enjoying it. I suggest at least trying it on a non-first playthrough.

Edit: It still amazes me that nobody in game talks about quietus at all... has there ever been an explanation for it?

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