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MeinPanzer posted:Thought this might be of interest. Any time there are discussions of ancient maps, the medieval reproductions of Ptolemy's 2nd c. AD map of the oikoumene, or inhabited world, often get posted: neat as hell, thanks! that map is shockingly good too, for the time (at least to my unknowledgeable eyes)
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Jul 29, 2022 02:59
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redleader posted:neat as hell, thanks! that map is shockingly good too, for the time (at least to my unknowledgeable eyes) It's pretty solid, all things considered. The Greeks and Romans did a ton of trade in the Indian Ocean so they had pretty good knowledge out to western India (other than the one obvious mistake) and down to Zanzibar, and it wasn't that unusual for traders to continue further east. There are multiple descriptions showing they knew the general layout of the Malay Peninsula and South China Sea. There are lots of Roman finds all along that route, and the furthest east Roman town was a trade outpost in southwestern India. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 29, 2022 |
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Jul 29, 2022 03:22
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Ancient Greece was essentially a paradise that Greeks ruined with greed and murder
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Jul 29, 2022 03:30
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Ancient Greece was essentially a paradise that Greeks ruined with greed and murder  but also:
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Jul 29, 2022 04:58
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GoutPatrol posted:I'm sure if you asked people to draw where they think the equator is on a blank Mercator map they would get it pretty wrong.
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Jul 29, 2022 05:13
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What is the deal with how the greeks depict the source of the Nile? I've noticed that in a few maps. Ptolemy's map shows the part that goes off into Ethiopia, but he still shows the bit that apparently splits into two lakes feeding the same river, but they're connected by either a waterfall or big river delta to...something. Maybe a bigger lake? I can't see anything on modern maps that evokes that.
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Jul 29, 2022 05:26
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SlothfulCobra posted:What is the deal with how the greeks depict the source of the Nile? I've noticed that in a few maps. Ptolemy's map shows the part that goes off into Ethiopia, but he still shows the bit that apparently splits into two lakes feeding the same river, but they're connected by either a waterfall or big river delta to...something. Maybe a bigger lake? I can't see anything on modern maps that evokes that. There's a bunch of stuff on ancient maps that is just Making poo poo Up but it became accepted fact. Like California being an island on early maps of the Americas. Nobody knew where the Nile originated, though they had explored far enough up it to know it split.
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Jul 29, 2022 05:56
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SlothfulCobra posted:What is the deal with how the greeks depict the source of the Nile? I've noticed that in a few maps. Ptolemy's map shows the part that goes off into Ethiopia, but he still shows the bit that apparently splits into two lakes feeding the same river, but they're connected by either a waterfall or big river delta to...something. Maybe a bigger lake? I can't see anything on modern maps that evokes that. Why, those are of course the lakes Zaire and Zaftlan, fed by streams flowing from the Mountains of the Moon.
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Jul 29, 2022 05:56
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 1554  1655  1690  1720  1858 Most via this page
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Jul 29, 2022 06:07
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GoutPatrol posted:I'm sure if you asked people to draw where they think the equator is on a blank Mercator map they would get it pretty wrong. Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Ancient Greece was essentially a paradise that Greeks ruined with greed and murder
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Jul 29, 2022 06:24
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redleader posted:neat as hell, thanks! that map is shockingly good too, for the time (at least to my unknowledgeable eyes) Important to note that that's a medieval reproduction of Ptolemy's original map produced using his latitudinal and longitudinal coordinates for sites; he was an astronomer and geographer and notably developed what was I believe the first comprehensive system for projecting cartography onto the globe in a mathematical fashion. SlothfulCobra posted:What is the deal with how the greeks depict the source of the Nile? I've noticed that in a few maps. Ptolemy's map shows the part that goes off into Ethiopia, but he still shows the bit that apparently splits into two lakes feeding the same river, but they're connected by either a waterfall or big river delta to...something. Maybe a bigger lake? I can't see anything on modern maps that evokes that. The source of the Nile was something of an obsession for Greek geographers. Ptolemy was much more scientific than many, who basically speculated based on the nature of the Nile's flood and their general knowledge of geography and physics to posit some theoretical source in "Aithiopia:" he drew on information from two Greek merchants, Diogenes and Theophilos, who plied the Indian Ocean trade winds and were familiar with the east coast of Africa. Diogenes and Theophilos both claimed to have been blown off course and sailed until they eventually reached "“the lakes from which the Nile flowed." Considering how long it took Europeans to actually discover Lakes Victoria and Albert, it's a remarkably accurate guess.
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Jul 29, 2022 06:30
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A Buttery Pastry posted:
Except for the sunshine, obviously
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Jul 29, 2022 06:39
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I meant physically, like it was very easy to raise crops, feed yourself in general, very beautiful, the climate was wonderful, but the ancient Greek's lust for violence and wealth destroyed all that If you're just referring to the region that now comprises the country of modern Greece, and not the broader Greek world (including e.g. southern Italy, parts of the Black Sea region, etc.) then this isn't really true. Greece is for the most part a fairly dry country with mediocre soils; historically about one year in ten has been a famine year, and major city-states such as Athens had to rely heavily on grain imports from the Black Sea, Sicily, and Egypt to ensure an adequate food supply. Also every society's lust for violence and wealth destroys everything. Not sure how the Greeks are unusual here.
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Jul 29, 2022 06:50
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mandatory lesbian posted:Its in the center isnt it... Nope  You can put the poles for a Mercator projection wherever you like. https://mrgris.com/projects/merc-extreme/#a473b325@48.85837,2.29448 Here's one with the Eifel tower as the pole. If you switch to map view you can see the equator is a wavy line in this projection.
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Jul 29, 2022 07:25
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MeinPanzer posted:If you're just referring to the region that now comprises the country of modern Greece, and not the broader Greek world (including e.g. southern Italy, parts of the Black Sea region, etc.) then this isn't really true. Greece is for the most part a fairly dry country with mediocre soils; historically about one year in ten has been a famine year, and major city-states such as Athens had to rely heavily on grain imports from the Black Sea, Sicily, and Egypt to ensure an adequate food supply.
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Jul 29, 2022 08:57
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Based on the deforestation on Crete, I kinda have to wonder if this is not partly because they hosed up a perfectly good ecosystem. There's no good evidence of major deforestation anywhere in Greece outside of Attica prior to the medieval period.
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Jul 29, 2022 09:11
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Carbon dioxide posted:Nope If you give a random person a purposefully distorted map, that quite obviously is gonna be hard to find the equator on, which i dont think the post i was responding to was meaning
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Jul 29, 2022 11:15
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you don't need to mess with the poles, it's fairly easy to obscure where the centre is just by leaving out antarctica or chopping a random amount off the top and bottom, given the "full" mercator projection extends infinitely
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Jul 29, 2022 11:34
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Just like the real Antarctic   
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Jul 29, 2022 11:42
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Guavanaut posted:Just like the real Antarctic drat that’s a good map. Delicious. Mwah
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Jul 29, 2022 13:27
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reminds me of that stross(?) short story where earth suddenly becomes flat, and they discover that other planets have also become archipelagos on the new ocean
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Jul 29, 2022 18:58
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that's a big ocean how long does it take to get to Mars at 20 knots
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Jul 29, 2022 19:09
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543 years and 262 days
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Jul 29, 2022 19:38
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Anyone read William H. Hodgson's Sargasso Sea stories? Boats of the Glen Carrig, The Ghost Pirates, and etc. Basically Weird Fiction about encountering various alien lifeforms and biomes in uncharted seas but written by an actual experienced sailor so there's a lot of verisimilitude from the mix of these fine details of actual sailing terminology and 19th century sailor life with fantastical elements.
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Jul 29, 2022 20:07
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Carthag Tuek posted:reminds me of that stross(?) short story where earth suddenly becomes flat, and they discover that other planets have also become archipelagos on the new ocean That's Missile Gap.
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Jul 29, 2022 20:36
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Speaking of Charlie, I feel sorry for the bloke for writing in Nyarlahotep taking over the UK and bringing back hanging for petty crimes in his book series as an over-the-top parody of the Tories… just months before Priti Patel took command as Home Secretary.
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Jul 29, 2022 22:04
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Ancient Greece was essentially a paradise that Greeks ruined with greed and murder Romans and Greeks are natural enemies. Like Turks and Greeks. Or Persians and Greeks! Or Greeks and other Greeks!
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Jul 29, 2022 22:20
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TinTower posted:Speaking of Charlie, I feel sorry for the bloke for writing in Nyarlahotep taking over the UK and bringing back hanging for petty crimes in his book series as an over-the-top parody of the Tories… just months before Priti Patel took command as Home Secretary. It's not really the first time that sort of thing has happened. He never released the third book of the Halting State trilogy because it was a near-future story and most of what was in it had already happened, aside from Scottish independence, and that wasn't too far off.
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Jul 29, 2022 23:05
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Arglebargle III posted:Romans and Greeks are natural enemies. Like Turks and Greeks. Or Persians and Greeks! Or Greeks and other Greeks! Ugh, it's true.
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Jul 29, 2022 23:06
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One of Niven's books also had a gigantic sea with faux 2D planets painted on it. The worlds were populated with their respective intelligent natives, with the idea being to keep them as a sort of zoo to study them in case there was trouble. This all took place on the "Ringwood" so there was plenty of space. There were some neat tricks. Mars for example was at a super high elevation so the rarefied air would be of similar pressure to the of the real Mars.
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Jul 29, 2022 23:20
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Count Roland posted:One of Niven's books also had a gigantic sea with faux 2D planets painted on it. The worlds were populated with their respective intelligent natives, with the idea being to keep them as a sort of zoo to study them in case there was trouble. Gravity is still way wrong unless the plateau’s height is two-thirds the radius of the ring.
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Jul 29, 2022 23:45
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Jul 30, 2022 01:11
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I'm fine with being rebordered in Wales, but I don't see why it has to be a kingdom again. Make it a republic based on the constitutional values of Dic Penderyn and Lewsyn yr Heliwr.
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Jul 30, 2022 01:17
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This reads like a troll. And judging by the Balkans it definitely is.
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Jul 30, 2022 01:22
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:This reads like a troll. And judging by the Balkans it definitely is. it was the Balkans that gave it away and not Russia?
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Jul 30, 2022 02:51
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Or the various islamic emirates in the UK/Sweden?
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Jul 30, 2022 03:01
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ChaseSP posted:Or the various islamic emirates in the UK/Sweden? Yeah this reads like a /pol/ troll map
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Jul 30, 2022 03:16
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Unkempt posted:That's Missile Gap. Thanks for this! Fun read.
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Jul 30, 2022 03:24
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Arglebargle III posted:Romans and Greeks are natural enemies. Like Turks and Greeks. Or Persians and Greeks! Or Greeks and other Greeks! "You Greeks sure are a contentious people!" "Yes."
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Jul 30, 2022 04:34
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Alaois posted:it was the Balkans that gave it away and not Russia? Well, I looked at the Balkans first.
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Jul 30, 2022 04:40
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