|
If you think you'll find yourself with six weeks to spare and an extra 4800 bucks to spend next summer, Clarion West just announced their 2023 instructor lineup: Week 1 – Mary Anne Mohanraj and Benjamin Rosenbaum Week 2 – Cat Rambo Week 3 – Samit Basu Week 4 – Karen Lord Week 5 – Arley Sorg Week 6 – Nora Jemisin I went in 2005, and it completely aside from the actual stuff I learned about writing, the people I met and connections I made were worth it.
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 19:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 16:07 |
|
|
Madurai posted:If you think you'll find yourself with six weeks to spare and an extra 4800 bucks to spend next summer, Clarion West just announced their 2023 instructor lineup: That’s a pretty stellar list! Nae fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jul 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 20:03
|
|
|
It’s the pipeline into the world of SFF! The fastest way to convince yourself of if its true horror and moral incompetence! Lots of spicy affairs and breakups too
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 22:33
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:It’s the pipeline into the world of SFF! The fastest way to convince yourself of if its true horror and moral incompetence! Okay you're kind of selling me on this
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 22:42
|
|
|
Yeah don't threaten me with a good time
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 22:43
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:Lots of spicy affairs and breakups too man i got all that poo poo from my wow guild for free
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 23:23
|
|
|
i just want to book no twitter, no networking, no tiktok, only book
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 02:00
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:Lots of spicy affairs and breakups too If you want to date your way through the publishing industry, just move to NYC
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 02:07
|
|
|
anime was right posted:i just want to book the thought of having to get on tiktok to promote my poo poo is enough to make me run screaming from modern publishing all by itself
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 03:07
|
|
|
i cannot tiktok because i have a face for podcasts
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 03:11
|
|
|
I wish I could put my laptop under my pillow while I slept and wake up to it being on a bestseller list
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 03:13
|
|
|
Junpei posted:I wish I could put my laptop under my pillow while I slept and wake up to it being on a bestseller list you can, as long as you do it hundreds of times and write a shitload in between can't imagine it'll be comfortable tho
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 04:24
|
|
|
Speaking of, what’s everyone’s pace like? I write for a living so I often feel like all of my words are “used up” at the end of the day. This year I’ve only written 30,000 words of the first draft of my WIP
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 05:01
|
|
|
Wungus posted:So the thing about being part of a communal species that exchanges art as a means of communication is that every single """idea""" is built on the backs of all the ideas that came before. Bar some bullshit bad faith 'gotcha' type fuckery, you cannot create in a bubble, and you cannot write without influence. When you read stories and go "oh my god this is so unique" what you're really reading is a clever combination of external influences; a cool movie, a friend's anecdote about their ex, a wild dream built by the subconscious need to unpack and understand nonsensical combinations of waking stimuli, a forums post. The trick behind most good writing is that at some point in the process (and it's definitely not always the first draft) the author said "hey actually let me kind of explore this in a new direction/abstract this in a different way/mash this into something else." I like this sentiment. I started regularly writing fiction for fun and to try to figure out what I like to write and even though nobody's going to look at it except, like, 3 friends, it still feels like I have to hide influences and bury whatever I've just read deep into the memory hole or it'd dominate everything. Consciously, I know I'm just dumping more popcorn into the bucket of ideas, and that of course I'm going to be influenced by whatever I just plowed through, but it still gets me to go like "isn't this just...?" and it's uncomfortable. I'm not writing the great god-drat American novel in my basement, I'm writing a bunch of garbage for an audience of one and that's okay! I've got plenty of time to figure out how to write things other people would actually want to read by writing thousands and thousands of words nobody would ever want to read. Megazver posted:Originality is when you, instead of picking one idea and copying it, steal five ideas you like and mash them all together. basically that yeah SurreptitiousMuffin posted:FWIW, when pitching to publishers I believe my agent went with Gideon the Ninth x Black Sun which is not what I'd have picked at all but you kinda get why it sold? That's got teeth, there's an immediate question of how well those things work together, is it gonna be a mess or salted caramel? Should at least read the opening and find out, oh wow this is good I'm gonna keep reading etc etc I have no idea what the context is here but I would read this in a second.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2022 05:11
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:I have no idea what the context is here but I would read this in a second. The context is that Muffin wrote a cool book called The Dawnhounds, available now in all good bookstores!
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2022 10:25
|
|
|
change my name posted:Speaking of, what’s everyone’s pace like? I write for a living so I often feel like all of my words are “used up” at the end of the day. This year I’ve only written 30,000 words of the first draft of my WIP I guess I've written about 100,000 words on my WIP this year, which sounds kind of good when I put it like that, even though it's felt way too slow most of the time I was doing it. At the moment I'm trying to figure out how to increase my pace by spending less time writing crufts, going down dead ends, and wrangling with structural problems.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2022 10:52
|
|
|
Sailor Viy posted:I guess I've written about 100,000 words on my WIP this year, which sounds kind of good when I put it like that, even though it's felt way too slow most of the time I was doing it. Not that I'm really in a position to dispense novel writing advice, but after a long time trying to figure that out myself and being totally unsuccessful, I think the answer is just writing a lot. I do think you eventually just develop a sense for how to avoid overwriting, how to shape your writing in a way that it will work well even through revisions, and what structural elements will present problems down the line or just not accomplish what you need them to. I do think, from talking to more experienced writers, that you're always going to have situations where something just doesn't work and you'll burn some amount of writing hours on it, but that it'll at least become a lot less common with experience.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2022 17:55
|
|
|
Sitting Here posted:Okay you're kind of selling me on this Luigi Thirty posted:I have no idea what the context is here but I would read this in a second. SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jul 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 01:20
|
|
|
SurreptitiousMuffin posted:the General isn't kidding lmao there's so much incestuous scene drama that comes out of that workshop, if two people in SF/F refuse to talk to each other they either beefed on Twitter or hosed at Clarion. Like by all means attend just be aware you're probably gonna generate at least one person you need to avoid at cons
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 02:12
|
|
|
Sailor Viy posted:but does it make you write good wow what even are your priorities here
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 02:14
|
|
|
Sailor Viy posted:but does it make you write good
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 02:14
|
|
|
(the real answer is that Clarion serves as a pretty crucial pipeline to publication, connecting you with the movers and shakers who are often otherwise inaccessible – since I never went through that system, getting a foot in the door was a loving nightmare that took years and a lot of luck. There is some debate in SF/F as to whether Clarion is sorta inherently classist, being too expensive for most writers, especially those outside the US, and its prominence in the scene results in a gatekeeping of a number of marginalised voices – I think they potentially overvalue just how good it is at helping you build a career, but it's certainly one of the most reliable feet through the door and also out of reach for a lot of people)
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 02:20
|
|
|
Odyssey is similar in clout, I think, and the publication stat on their website says that about 50% of their grads go onto get published. Ergo, if you're already good enough that you can get accepted to a program that takes 9 people a year, AND you have a few weeks and a few grand to spare, you can increase your chances of getting published at least once anywhere to coin-flip odds. Do with that info what you will.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 03:45
|
|
|
I mean it could also be if you're good enough to get into Clarion/Odyssey you've got good chances of getting published period. I didn't go to either one, I just wrote a bunch of short stories and had a good critique group.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 03:51
|
|
|
Also I think I should emphasize that any kind of professional contact with the SFF world means jumping taint first into a community that generally consents to the various behavioral modification effects of Twitter and as a result loves to eat its young. I cannot give a more concise piece of advice about SFF than 'trust no one'. When I was in college I taught at a young writers' workshop where it was traditional to take the students, almost all queer teen girls, to a local SFF con. Every year the list of warnings and defensive practices we gave them beforehand got longer. At some point I realized that I was an adult now, not a college student, and I could just say 'we should never take our students to this place ever again.' By the time I turned...26ish, I'd been catfished, catfished into recruiting people to defend the catfish from accusations of catfishing, groped, given pills at parties by senior publishing people (granted, she was on the level about them being just THC pills, but what if they hadn't been?), repeatedly grilled about my sexual orientation, 'helpfully informed' at cons that 'lots of people were saying horrible things about your work', and heard more secondhand vendettas and whisper-network warnings about predators than I can remember. I'd shaken hands with people and then been told moments later 'oh yeah, that guy stalked [well known author] until she stopped coming to cons'. I'd repeatedly had the very cool experience of being totally blanked and ignored in conversation until people realized who I was, when I suddenly became worth listening to. And I wasn't a woman, so I didn't have anyone follow me back to my hotel room or suggest I get into poly, except once but they were at least reasonably charming about it. Nor did I have any men to decide to hate me because they felt I was a threat to their fantasies of dating some woman writer who'd smiled at them once, which happened to some men writers I knew. (I also got really drunk with a lot of people, but that was generally fun and rewarding; there are good people out there, a lot of them. The problem is that good people in a bad community can often end up doing bad things.) And those were the good years! After that things started getting REALLY hosed up
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:04
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:Also I think I should emphasize that any kind of professional contact with the SFF world means jumping taint first into a community that generally consents to the various behavioral modification effects of Twitter and as a result loves to eat its young. I cannot give a more concise piece of advice about SFF than 'trust no one'. Mayor from Buffy voice: well, gosh
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:14
|
|
|
Writing SF/F professionally is super cool and I love it, The SF/F Community on the other hand is terrifying, it makes me constantly nervous and sad, I wish there were a way to write wizard books and have cool conversations about craft without worrying all the loving time. I have exactly two pro SF/F writers I trust-trust: one refuses to engage with social media or the broader community, the other has the patience of a saint and nerves of loving steel.
SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jul 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:25
|
|
|
Where is all of this stuff happening, anyway? I assume strictly conventions in the days of yore, but is it all private discords and messages and so forth? Obviously Twitter is gross but I get the funny feeling that barely scratches the surface.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:31
|
|
|
Cons are still where the REAL horror stories emerge, Twitter is a crucial secondary cesspit, beyond that it's a network of Discords/Slacks/Group Chats/DMs. Cons tend to be more directly intimately gross while Twitter has scale, and a bunch of hotheads who seem to enjoy being the dynamite that sets off an avalanche.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:35
|
|
|
This is making me very badly want to just hide in my basement and write elfbooks for my own entertainment, and never actually try to publish anything
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:39
|
|
|
No, publish things, just avoid cons and social media like the plague. If you Make It, your writer friends should remain your same writer friends from before you Made It. The two bignames who I trust both knew me/were good to me when I was nobody and that's not a coincidence.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:44
|
|
|
Well, thanks for letting me know about all of this. Jesus Christ.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:47
|
|
|
SurreptitiousMuffin posted:No, publish things, just avoid cons and social media like the plague. If you Make It, your writer friends should remain your same writer friends from before you Made It. The two bignames who I trust both knew me/were good to me when I was nobody and that's not a coincidence. Well that's good to know, I don't do well at cons and kind of think social media is a curse, so I guess that doesn't change the plan much! That said my first post in this thread was nearly five years ago and I still haven't gotten substantially closer to publishing anything so I might be getting a bit ahead of myself, lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:51
|
|
|
Weirdly enough most of my outside-the-industry trusted writer circle are goons from here; TD has been shockingly drama-free and filled with cool and talented people, many of whom I know and hang out with IRL. It's sorta weird that a group that talks to each other like wrestling heels has survived a decade with like ... one major incident that E/N flung at us (Benjamin the Reptile) but otherwise it's all just pretty chill and healthy? I don't think I've ever seen a community that large exist for that long without Drama.
SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jul 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:53
|
|
|
going to cons seemed like a fun infrequent activity i usually like those sorts of things but im also the kind of person that like stays away from dumb huge parties i just like learning and chattin and stuff. i even liked wondercon, but i went alone and only went to panels and stuff lol a shame they suck
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 04:58
|
|
|
i went to san francisco writers con in late feb of 2020, had fun wandering around the embarcadero and sharing a joint with a bunch of strangers now i look back on that and think holy poo poo we all smoked the same joint in the first weeks of a respiratory pandemic that was already sweeping the globe, it turns out marijuana really is dangerous
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 05:04
|
|
|
I mean look, writing fiction professionally is the coolest poo poo, and I've met a ton of cool people who I really like, and been given opportunities I never could've dreamed of, I am just ... extremely cautious, I've seen what The Community has done to people I care about and I live in constant terror of it happening to me. Do submit stuff, do publish, just do it in a way that keeps you happy and safe.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 06:29
|
|
|
Well, uh, grats on adding another sale to that  MockingQuantum posted:This is making me very badly want to just hide in my basement and write elfbooks for my own entertainment, and never actually try to publish anything Not gonna lie, reading Gideon is what got me to start practicing writing horror stuff for my own enjoyment and to scare my friends (“Kate, you wrote a loving nightmare!” made me feel warm and fuzzy for days). I’m having a lot of fun with it even if I’d never put it anywhere. It sounds like the real horror story is conventions and thank gently caress I never go to any Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jul 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 07:38
|
|
|
I mean, having whinged about how terrible the scene is, I should say: Taz Muir is a fuckin real one, exactly as funny as GtN would have you believe and also super nice. There are absolutely good, cool people out there who are worth looking up to. I think you have the right approach too: there are a million people out there who want to be a Writer but remarkably few who seem to find joy in writing, and without that joy then there's just ... nothing? Being A Writer is alternately boring and scary, writing is the bit that fuckin slaps. That point about 50-60% of the way through an MS where all the streams flow together and suddenly the water's rushing downhill? Nothing like it. If you find joy in it, do it, do it recklessly and pointlessly, and occasionally you'll finish a short and put it down and six months later it'll still be bouncing around your skull and you know it needs expansion so you just start writing, drat the torpedos, and it's a trash draft who the gently caress cares and suddenly you're re-reading your final draft and crying because gently caress I'm good, gently caress I'm actually really good that's why I do this, everything else is window dressing with a sniper lurking around outside, write the fuckin stories and don't care about anything else, it rules
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 09:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 16:07 |
|
|
sometimes you will write a story and go "I'm super proud of this" at which point you should submit the story to an appropriate venue, take their money, act like the story is a dove you released out the window that is now gone from your world, ignore all social media and go back to writing
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2022 09:55
|
|