|
Baronash posted:Is the argument that MTG (who peddled a conspiracy theory about space lasers causing wildfires) would not be fearmongering about gay men if this one quote from a CDC representative didn't exist? That's assuming a whole lot of good faith intent from someone whose voter base is people who believe their political enemies harvest the blood of children to consume during satanic rituals. The argument is that the CDC has effectively messaged this disease as a gay std as evidenced to buy the Associated Press saying it is a gay std
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 21:17 |
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/EnemyInAState/status/1553536762319966208?t=g7yHSSE0NJpdxztyfP1iEA&s=19 Absolutely. And that is why the CDC has been broadly trying to avoid doing that in their messaging -- and why Walensky's particular soundbite-generating gently caress-up was a gently caress-up. Nearly every article on this for the past month has included something like this: quote:The virus spreads through prolonged and close skin-to-skin contact as well as sharing bedding, towels and clothing. In Europe and North America, it has spread primarily among men who have sex with men, though health officials emphasize that the virus can infect anyone.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:38
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:That it is an STI But when did the CDC call it a STI? I know Margorie Green does, but it seems like people are conflating the messaging of the CDC with what extremists on Twitter are saying Jaxyon posted:The argument is that the CDC has effectively messaged this disease as a gay std as evidenced to buy the Associated Press saying it is a gay std If the CDC doesn't call it a gay STD but the AP does, how is that the CDC 's fault? I'd think the blame lays with the AP
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:42
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:But when did the CDC call it a STI? I know Margorie Green does, but it seems like people are conflating the messaging of the CDC with what extremists on Twitter are saying The AP ran an article about it being a gay STI
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:44
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/EnemyInAState/status/1553536762319966208?t=g7yHSSE0NJpdxztyfP1iEA&s=19 Walensky and the CDC as a whole under Biden have been objectively harmful. From the handling of Covid, to perpetuating a new gay panic, the end result is one of immense damage to the impact of the American citizens and trust in the institution as a whole. While it could be argued that the actions of the CDC comes down to incompetence and not direct malice, liberals and Dems defending the actions of Walensky and the CDC can only be interpreted as malice. Having it stated numerous times, with direct evidence, how destructive the CDC has been under Biden and for one to play it down or make excuses demonstrates one’s lack of morals. Absolute appalling behavior.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:44
|
|
|
Multiple news outlets have run with that and still are due to poor messaging from the CDC. how many more times do we have to say this
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:The AP ran an article about it being a gay STI The AP is not a government agency. Why are we focusing on the CDC and government response rather than the people who actually made the error? Jaxyon posted:Multiple news outlets have run with that and still are due to poor messaging from the CDC. how many more times do we have to say this Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:52
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:But when did the CDC call it a STI? I know Margorie Green does, but it seems like people are conflating the messaging of the CDC with what extremists on Twitter are saying If it was not their intention to call it an STI and the associated freaking press calls it an STI, then the CDC should directly address the associated press releasing misinformation
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:53
|
|
|
BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Absolutely. And that is why the CDC has been broadly trying to avoid doing that in their messaging -- and why Walensky's particular soundbite-generating gently caress-up was a gently caress-up. Nearly every article on this for the past month has included something like this: Even in your quote the CDC continues to say " In Europe and North America, it has spread primarily among men who have sex with men" where they just could have stopped at describing how it is passed. The CDC is just catastrophically dumb about this. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Aug 1, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:53
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Well, no offense, but everyone here is acting like half the US is the "and then they EAT THE POO POO!" guy, and there's no loving getting around that with messaging if they are. Since the "high school debate club"-tier rules now imposed on this thread by toddler brained seem to be keeping people from just saying what needs to be said, I'll do it: You're bug-gently caress stupid or a masterful troll. Either way: Get hosed. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:53
|
|
|
Crain posted:Since the "high school debate club"-tier rules now imposed on this thread by toddler brained seem to be keeping people from just saying what needs to be said, I'll do it: How am I the problem for pointing out how backward the US is? You're sitting here pretending you can reason the loving Jewish space-laser woman, like picking the right words will make her and the morons who vote for her, somehow less insane and stupid.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:56
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:The AP is not a government agency. Why are we focusing on the CDC and government response rather than the people who actually made the error? Denying it over and over again doesn't make it wrong. People have told you multiple times about the errors the CDC has made that has led everyone add everyone to misunderstand the disease
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:56
|
|
|
PT6A posted:How am I the problem for pointing out how backward the US is? You're sitting here pretending you can reason the loving Jewish space-laser woman, like picking the right words will make her and the morons who vote for her, somehow less insane and stupid. Your literal position that you are advocating for is that because segments of the United States population are huge idiots, it does not matter what government agencies say. I sincerely hope your politics are driven by spite and not by reason because wow that's an incredibly poo poo position
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:57
|
|
|
Ciprian Maricon posted:Even in your quote the CDC continues to say " In Europe and North America, it has spread primarily among men who have sex with men" the CDC is just catastrophically dumb about this. That's a quote from an AP article (in which you amusingly lopped off the end of the sentence that actually is purported to be a statement from health officials because it contradicts your point), not a statement from the CDC.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:58
|
|
|
It does absolutely matter what government agencies say. They should be truthful and honest. That should be the main concern, because you can't say anything that can't be twisted around and misinterpreted by lunatics and morons.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 17:59
|
|
|
PT6A posted:It does absolutely matter what government agencies say. They should be truthful and honest. That should be the main concern, because you can't say anything that can't be twisted around and misinterpreted by lunatics and morons. If the things you say can very easily be misinterpreted by supposedly well-meaning people--say, the associated press--then you should probably stop being so incredibly poo poo at communication
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:00
|
|
|
Of potential interest, CUNY's having a webinar on comms and avoiding stigma in the monkeypox context tomorrow: https://pandemicresponse.columbia.edu/2022/07/26/monkeypox-how-communications-can-prevent-misinformation-and-stigma/ I can't attend due to work obligations, but others may wish to. In practice, I find these events are a real mixed bag; about half the time all those involved have no actual clue on specifics, research or policy on the issue; the credentials on the lineup for this one is not particularly encouraging.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:01
|
|
|
Crain posted:Since the "high school debate club"-tier rules now imposed on this thread by toddler brained seem to be keeping people from just saying what needs to be said, I'll do it:
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:03
|
|
|
Baronash posted:That's a quote from an AP article (in which you amusingly lopped off the end of the sentence that actually is purported to be a statement from health officials because it contradicts your point), not a statement from the CDC. It's really fruitless to talk about how everyone can get this disease if seconds before you talked about how its all the gay men getting it. There is a historical and social context for this, and to pretend like constantly talking about the men who have sex with men at the center of this outbreak is harmless is irresponsible. The AP didn't get this messaging out of nowhere, it comes from officials like the CDC who cannot stop talking about men-who-have-sex-with-men when there is no real reason to.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:07
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:There is no nation in the world that is not deeply homophobic I wonder what planet they’re posting from because they’re definitely not talking about anywhere in Europe, Asia, Africa, or The Americas. Maybe they’ll let us know so we can play the fun game of pointing out what kind of wild stuff their country’s right wing is saying.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:07
|
|
|
Ciprian Maricon posted:Even in your quote the CDC continues to say " In Europe and North America, it has spread primarily among men who have sex with men" where they just could have stopped at describing how it is passed. The CDC is just catastrophically dumb about this. First, you deliberately lopped off the CDC clarification. Second, even if that were the press release, that's the problem, something like that needs to be said to prevent people from catching the drat thing, because saying nothing means it'll just silently ravage the community. I'm not a public health expert. Maybe you don't do it through AP news articles, but I'd really like to see an alternative expert opinion about what could be done.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:12
|
|
|
BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:That's the problem, though, something like that needs to be said to prevent people from catching the drat thing, because saying nothing means it'll just silently ravage the community. I'm not a public health expert. Maybe you don't do it through AP news articles, but I'd really like to see an alternative expert opinion about what could be done. You can address the need to combat the outbreak with regards to the public at large without needing to talk repeatedly about all the gays getting it. You could engage an at risk community directly without speaking to the press at every opportunity about how all these gay dudes just keep getting it. Like my god, we wen't through something like this within living memory, the same logic you're applying here could be used to defend the abject failure of communication that occurred during the AIDS epidemic. BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:First, you deliberately lopped off the CDC clarification. No one gives a gently caress if you say "technically anyone can get it" after laying down the ground work to label this the new gay plague. It doesn't make the previous statement any less harmful or stupid.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:19
|
|
|
Tiny Timbs posted:I wonder what planet they’re posting from because they’re definitely not talking about anywhere in Europe, Asia, Africa, or The Americas. Maybe they’ll let us know so we can play the fun game of pointing out what kind of wild stuff their country’s right wing is saying. Guessing europe because that's where I usually see the "we have evolved past the silly racial issues that plague Americans" posts from. Usually from a country with an active nazi party.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:20
|
|
|
isn't pt6a Canadian
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:21
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:Denying it over and over again doesn't make it wrong. You're making a causal link without evidence. You're saying that the CDD's messaging has resulted in the AP and Marge Green making statements about monkeypox being a STI. You have presented zero evidence for this. What did the CDC say that could have been misinterpreted, in good faith, as saying monkeypox was a STI? It sounds like you should be mad at the AP, but for some reason you seem fixated on the CDC.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:22
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:You're making a causal link without evidence. You're saying that the CDD's messaging has resulted in the AP and Marge Green making statements about monkeypox being a STI. You have presented zero evidence for this. Apply this incredible logic to the CDC response to AIDS in the 1980s and the Reagan administration's response.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:25
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:You're making a causal link without evidence. You're saying that the CDD's messaging has resulted in the AP and Marge Green making statements about monkeypox being a STI. You have presented zero evidence for this. Do you think the CDC has any responsibility to correct the AP if they release misinformation
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:26
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:isn't pt6a Canadian Aye, and while we certainly have homophobes, we simply shout them down instead of pretending maybe it’s our fault they’re hateful because we didn’t phrase things properly.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:28
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Aye, and while we certainly have homophobes, we simply shout them down instead of pretending maybe it’s our fault they’re hateful because we didn’t phrase things properly. I'd be very happy if the CDC would shout them down for calling monkeypox an STI
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:29
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:Do you think the CDC has any responsibility to correct the AP if they release misinformation I think they do, and they should be doing that right the gently caress now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:29
|
|
|
Well, when you're right you're right!
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:30
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Aye, and while we certainly have homophobes, we simply shout them down instead of pretending maybe it’s our fault they’re hateful because we didn’t phrase things properly. Yeah maybe don’t play up nationalistic moral high ground credentials for this one, as a Canadian.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:30
|
|
|
BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:First, you deliberately lopped off the CDC clarification. The problem I personally saw was that it was stated in such a way as to link men who have sex with men spreading the disease to children and that the cause of that spread was left ambiguous. If it's framed as something similar to an STI or even just a disease in a certain community/among those with a certain sexuality and then children get it from the individuals in that community or who are that sexuality then people, not necessarily those who are far-right, will be fearful their children might catch it from the individuals that are that sexuality. They could even link it to harmful behavior or else it will help to confirm what they're hearing from the nonstop bigoted propaganda about lgbtq+ people being groomers. It could likely lead to increased gay panic, is my point. In actuality it was spread by parents who had the rash to their infant children by touching them benignly. The problem is in the way scientists communicate in this regard because they say things like "likely" or, at best, "probably" or, in this case, leave it ambiguous because that is what is most accurate and/or to manage expectations. This compared to those who are not held or do not hold themselves to the same standard giving absolute statements, which work on the human mind far better.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:32
|
|
|
Ciprian Maricon posted:Apply this incredible logic to the CDC response to AIDS in the 1980s and the Reagan administration's response. It's almost like these are two different situations decades apart. How are you getting from what I said to "the CDC has never done anything wrong, including in the 1980s"?
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:34
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:It's almost like these are two different situations decades apart. How are you getting from what I said to "the CDC has never done anything wrong, including in the 1980s"? Its impossible for the same organization to make similar mistakes, you see.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:35
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:Its impossible for the same organization to make similar mistakes, you see. Nobody's saying that either. What you appear to be saying is that the CDC poo poo the bed with AIDS in the 80s and therefore they are doing the exact same thing with monkeypox. The AP apparently has no agency of its own, and everything is the CDC's fault.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:37
|
|
|
Ciprian Maricon posted:Apply this incredible logic to the CDC response to AIDS in the 1980s and the Reagan administration's response. As I understand it (and someone correct me if I am wrong) is that the Reagan Administration purposefully didn't do anything because they wanted AIDS to destroy the gay community. So they withheld information, didn't investigate, didn't tell people they might be in danger. Then when it jumped into people who were deemed straight they were forced to do something and also blamed the gay community. The Biden administration is trying to tell the at risk community hey you need to know about this and have provided things like vaccines against monkeypox though I know they're concerned with making more because its a smallpox vaccine and that has a chance to have real consequences. So, if the assertion here is that Biden is trying to recrate the AIDS playbook and wants to destroy the gay community, I think that's wrong. If the contention is they need to message better about the disease, fine but trying to equate these two things feels like you are trying to get people to think Biden = Reagan.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:39
|
|
|
Ciprian Maricon posted:Apply this incredible logic to the CDC response to AIDS in the 1980s and the Reagan administration's response. Do you have a good link that summarizes the CDC response to the AIDS crisis? It's kind of hard for me to find on a casual search, I just found this. I thought the CDC mostly avoided doing much research/outreach until public pressure finally forced Reagan's hand at the end of his presidency. But that might just be an assumption on my part.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:43
|
|
|
someone make a monkeypox thread already
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 21:17 |
|
|
Personally I think it's real gross to imply that letting a disease rip through a marginalized community on purpose is analogous to clumsy messaging that is primarily intended to educate marginalized communities that are being disproportionately affected by a disease. But I do understand that the intent is to point out that the effects could be similar in either case; in which stigma makes people outside of those groups feel overly confident and safe, and leads to further marginalization of the other groups. In any case, I'm not going to come down one way or another or say this can't be discussed and debated further, but please keep in mind that arguing over what Walensky's intent was or wasn't it isn't particularly interesting or fruitful. I don't think there's really much disagreement going on regarding harmful effects and the need for a course correction, particularly correcting the AP who are primarily the ones calling it a "gay disease." And for that matter, I don't think her off the cuff remarks had anything to do with someone in Spain being told not to worry about the gay disease. if anything, that shows that this type of framing is not unique to the CDC, Walensky, or to US media. Herstory Begins Now posted:someone make a monkeypox thread already I'm not going to shut down monkeypox discussion in USCE as it is absolutely a very current event, but it would certainly be helpful if someone felt motivated to put together an informative monkeypox thread that can be used to keep people up to date on the latest developments. Threads are an essentially limitless resource, go hog wild. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Aug 1, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2022 18:45
|
|
