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Nance Ferdinand getting MH17ed in the South China sea
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Aug 2, 2022 14:11
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Tesseraction posted:lol https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jacob-rees-mogg-admits-i-was-wrong-to-say-brexit-would-not-cause-dover-delays Jacob "The Snake-ob" Rees-Mogg
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Aug 2, 2022 14:15
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Beefeater1980 posted:I mean, the US still is, technically? US overseas actions already are in the news - it's the assassination of al-Zawahiri though, rather than Taiwan. I'm not sure what there even is to report in the first place, everyone involved is so thoroughly discredited that the only way to make a report stand up is to include the kind of military intel that would never be shared publicly.
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Aug 2, 2022 14:19
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Failed Imagineer posted:Jacob "The Snake-ob" Rees-Mogg lol
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Aug 2, 2022 14:22
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I still can't get over that they named his post the "Brexit Opportunities Minister" Hopefully the next cabinet will continue with this... Ministry of War Opportunities, Department of Monkey Pox Opportunities and Department of Heat Wave Opportunities need to happen so people can focus on the positive possibilities!
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Aug 2, 2022 14:22
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quote:“Yes, of course I got it wrong, but I got it wrong for the right reason, if I may put it that way,” he said. Fucken lol I like the 'delays will be in calais' argument, yes things will be poo poo and there will be massive disruption and delays, but we won't be able to see the queues from here so its perfectly fine.
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Aug 2, 2022 14:30
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https://twitter.com/churnwell/status/1554459357613547523
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Aug 2, 2022 14:39
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Dall-E really doesn't do so good producing faces. But then again, neither did Glinner
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Aug 2, 2022 14:43
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Some good news for once: https://twitter.com/MirrorTV/status/1554455415705960448
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Aug 2, 2022 14:44
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Failed Imagineer posted:Dall-E really doesn't do so good producing faces. But then again, neither did Glinner It intentionally distorts faces to prevent people making deepfakes. Other non-free/non-open-access ones don't.
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Aug 2, 2022 14:45
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Comrade Fakename posted:Some good news for once: diversity.jpg
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Aug 2, 2022 14:46
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Nenonen posted:I still can't get over that they named his post the "Brexit Opportunities Minister"
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Aug 2, 2022 14:48
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Beefeater1980 posted:It’s kind of wild to me that my social circles here in Asia are going nuts sharing details of Pelosi’s flight on WeChat and wondering if we’re on the brink of WW3 (we’re not) and everyone back in the UK is still on local news - is it even being reported? I think it's primarily one of those American protagonist syndrome things and all the discussion is just theatre for QAnon/Rep/Trump poo poo. The China thread here is a better indicator, just like the Eastern Europe thread here currently/earlier, than bad faith social media snowballing.
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Aug 2, 2022 14:55
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Mr Phillby posted:Fucken lol "I was wrong in a limited and specific way"
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Aug 2, 2022 14:56
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Comrade Fakename posted:Some good news for once: It ran its course years ago
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Aug 2, 2022 15:23
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Guavanaut posted:This is wilder than the magic oranges. Was there really a movement to replace evidence and dialectic based history with fighting Irish giants for rocks? And it worked? And nobody made a bigger deal about Michael Gove wanting to replace parts of this history curriculum with mermen while he was writing his own foreword to the Bible? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis:_The_Antediluvian_World Making up poo poo about your mythic past was very popular at the turn of the 20th century, and went on to inspire some Very Big Brain ideas in Germany some years later which led to the creation of the Deutsches Ahnennerbe, basically what you would get if you got the average cast member of a history channel show and make them slightly more obsessed with nazism than they already are. A pseudoarcheological organization sponsored by the nazi party which went around trying to prove that actually the noble german race was secretly behind all the cool stuff in antiquity and perhaps most importantly, that they were the rightful historical owners of all the places they conquered. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Aug 2, 2022 |
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Aug 2, 2022 15:31
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Beefeater1980 posted:I mean, the US still is, technically? Taiwan isn't though
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Aug 2, 2022 15:39
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Since this thread has some good historians, another goon was wondering aloud if there's any books that deep dive into German public knowledge of what was going on during the Reich up to the point of liberation by the Allied forces, how much the propaganda was believed/disputed and how those who disbelieved it got information. Does anyone know of any books like that? Most of the stuff that easily comes to hand is more about the actions of the resistance movement whereas they were, and made me, curious about the general population.
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Aug 2, 2022 15:53
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Comrade Fakename posted:Some good news for once: Hey now... i've got about 20 hours of old compilations from that show downloaded from YT.... i use them as background noise to help me fall asleep.  Not watched the show on BBC for at least eight years, i assume it got really poo poo. 
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Aug 2, 2022 15:55
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I used to watch it now and then, years ago, and found andy parsons to be the unfunniest person in the world
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Aug 2, 2022 15:57
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Tesseraction posted:Since this thread has some good historians, another goon was wondering aloud if there's any books that deep dive into German public knowledge of what was going on during the Reich up to the point of liberation by the Allied forces, how much the propaganda was believed/disputed and how those who disbelieved it got information. Does anyone know of any books like that? Most of the stuff that easily comes to hand is more about the actions of the resistance movement whereas they were, and made me, curious about the general population. Berlin: The Downfall 1945 seemed pretty good to me when I read it, though I'm not familiar enough with history authors to know Anthony Beevor's rep within the genre and whether other authors are better.
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Aug 2, 2022 15:58
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Deketh posted:I used to watch it now and then, years ago, and found andy parsons to be the unfunniest person in the world oh my god the daily maiiiiiiiiillllllllllll
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Aug 2, 2022 15:58
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Darth Walrus posted:Berlin: The Downfall 1945 seemed pretty good to me when I read it, though I'm not familiar enough with history authors to know Anthony Beevor's rep within the genre and whether other authors are better. This seems to be more coverage of the war as opposed to the domestic situation? Seems interesting on that topic, mind you!
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Aug 2, 2022 16:00
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There is a quite interesting show on youtube that does week by week documentation on world war 2. https://www.youtube.com/c/WorldWarTwo They also do a series called war against humanity that covers all the really horrible poo poo, which I don't watch because genuinely I think it would just gently caress up my mental health too much. But they do usually give the sources they use if you want to read further. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Aug 2, 2022 |
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Aug 2, 2022 16:00
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Tesseraction posted:This seems to be more coverage of the war as opposed to the domestic situation? Seems interesting on that topic, mind you! It covers a time period when there was zero dividing line between the two, though, given that the war had become very, very domestic, and so there's plenty of stuff on the experiences and perspectives of German civilians. It's also a sequel to Stalingrad, which is a similarly worthwhile read (again, with the caveat that I'm too ignorant of the genre to know whether I'm recommending its best).
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Aug 2, 2022 16:03
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OwlFancier posted:There is a quite interesting show on youtube that does week by week documentation on world war 2. I watched the Great War series when they ran that from 2014-2018, good stuff.
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Aug 2, 2022 16:07
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Yeah their coverage of the military side of WW2 is very detailed and good, I have watched a couple of the WAH episodes and they also are very detailed and they don't seem shy of covering atrocities from the likes of the UK and US either. It's just it is a very hard watch I think, because the subject matter is horrific.
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Aug 2, 2022 16:11
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Tesseraction posted:Since this thread has some good historians, another goon was wondering aloud if there's any books that deep dive into German public knowledge of what was going on during the Reich up to the point of liberation by the Allied forces, how much the propaganda was believed/disputed and how those who disbelieved it got information. Does anyone know of any books like that? Most of the stuff that easily comes to hand is more about the actions of the resistance movement whereas they were, and made me, curious about the general population. The one guy who was a lib and didn't like the Nazis much but felt powerless to do anything except grumble privately talking about the forms vs the spirit of society still gives me a very uncomfortable feeling, more so in the last half-decade for some reason: quote:“But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
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Aug 2, 2022 16:13
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OwlFancier posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis:_The_Antediluvian_World quote:It was avidly supported by publications of Helena Blavatsky and the Theosophical Society as well as by Rudolf Steiner. It's strange enough (but highly plausible given what kind of things people socially believe) that "Graeco-Roman gods spaffed a bunch of giants onto the best island in the world then Hercules killed the king giant then exactly seven years later[1] Brutus, who was from Troy, killed the rest of the giants and that's where British people come from" was believed as a creation myth at the same time as there were motor vehicles, to the degree that my nan would allude to it as "something someone might say the believe about the nature of the earth, like Genesis" decades later, but for Cameron and Gove to position themselves as part of a 'movement' around it in the late 00s means it must have been popular enough among certain types in the 1970s. And then it just... disappeared from wider public conscious until them and the Telegraph and a bunch of proto-Brexiteers tried to make it a thing again in response to not liking the reality around them. Our Island's Tory. 
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Aug 2, 2022 16:14
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Citing your dreams is probably tied with the maths paper that cites kaczynski* (better known for other work) for best footnote.
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Aug 2, 2022 16:18
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Apraxin posted:It's probably more anecdotal than you're looking for, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Thought_They_Were_Free. A journalist who lived in a university town in West Germany in the early 50s got a bunch of people he befriended there to open up to him about what (they felt) it was 'really like' to live under the Nazi regime from 33 to 45. Obviously a limited representation and skewed in terms of gender/class (most of them are petit-bourgeois men who are like 'oh it was ok, apart from the war'), but still pretty interesting. every time I come across this quote it gvies me chills, and not the good kind like you want
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Aug 2, 2022 16:19
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Apraxin posted:It's probably more anecdotal than you're looking for, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Thought_They_Were_Free. A journalist who lived in a university town in West Germany in the early 50s got a bunch of people he befriended there to open up to him about what (they felt) it was 'really like' to live under the Nazi regime from 33 to 45. Obviously a limited representation and skewed in terms of gender/class (most of them are petit-bourgeois men who are like 'oh it was ok, apart from the war'), but still pretty interesting. Ooh this is interesting
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Aug 2, 2022 16:21
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Tesseraction posted:Since this thread has some good historians, another goon was wondering aloud if there's any books that deep dive into German public knowledge of what was going on during the Reich up to the point of liberation by the Allied forces, how much the propaganda was believed/disputed and how those who disbelieved it got information. Does anyone know of any books like that? Most of the stuff that easily comes to hand is more about the actions of the resistance movement whereas they were, and made me, curious about the general population. I can't comment on the quality but there's Last Train From Berlin, a journalist writing about life in Germany in the run up to the war & the early part, before getting out to Switzerland There is The Fall of Berlin by Read & Fisher which covers Berlin in the Nazi era, as well as the final battle and isn't just focused on the military side of things. None of these are recommendations from me though, just what I can find on the topic. With the lowest effort anyway
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Aug 2, 2022 16:34
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Tesseraction posted:Since this thread has some good historians, another goon was wondering aloud if there's any books that deep dive into German public knowledge of what was going on during the Reich up to the point of liberation by the Allied forces, how much the propaganda was believed/disputed and how those who disbelieved it got information. Does anyone know of any books like that? Most of the stuff that easily comes to hand is more about the actions of the resistance movement whereas they were, and made me, curious about the general population. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Village-Third-Reich-Transformed-bestseller-ebook/dp/B09RMQRR9T This follows the evolution of life in one particular village from 1930-1945 in great detail. Its a great read to see how the Nazi state changed the day-to-day lives of civilians, very different from the more normal historical focus on soldiers or politicians.
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Aug 2, 2022 17:22
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Flux Wildly posted:Anyone know the significance of octopus emojis in the replies? There’s a gif in there too He was such a well known groper that people were warned about him and called him "The octopus".
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Aug 2, 2022 17:27
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Blut posted:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Village-Third-Reich-Transformed-bestseller-ebook/dp/B09RMQRR9T Brilliant, this looks like just the thing!
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Aug 2, 2022 17:41
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Obviously not evidence, but I'm fond of Judgement at Nuremberg (1961) a courtroom drama set at at the end of the trials period when the powers that be are pretty much at the point of wanting everything to be done with so everyone can move forward. The key question that comes out of it is 'so if nobody here actually supported it, how did any of this happen?'
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Aug 2, 2022 17:42
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I was at a British army school in Germany in the 70s for a while (dad was civilian attached for a time being) and some of my friends had German mothers. I remember talking to them - bearing in mind at that time most of our mothers would have been school kids during WW2. Using the Hitler Youth as an example and having read some Brits saying they would never have joined or they would never have let their kids join, basically not joining was almost certainly going to get your whole family in to serious trouble if not a death sentence. And we know what peer pressure can be like too, anyone who didn't 100% support the war from our side was pretty much ostracized imprisoned or in some cases shot. Some books covering the ground from different stances: A book which I was never certain if it was fact fiction or a mix is Secret Hunters by Ranulph Fiennes which explores some of this how good Germans became supporters of the Nazis. My mum just lent me a book Village of the 3rd Reich which I haven't read yet but is documentary about life in a German village. Another one I can think of that is autobiography I Pierre Seel Deported Homosexual who lived in one of those towns on the French/ German border where families would be split over whether they were 'allies" or 'axis'. He ended up in the German army (and in a concentration camp too). I see a couple of other recommendations for the village book. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Aug 2, 2022 |
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Aug 2, 2022 17:48
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My grandmother was German and grew up during the 1930s/40s, and yeah as Jaeluni says she had no choice but to join the party, as did her family. She came in to some of our WW2 days in school and talked a bit about what it was like from a German perspective, but obviously skipped over the whole holocaust stuff because I was like 7.
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Aug 2, 2022 17:51
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It's a little bit different, but Into That Darkness by Gitta Sereny walks you through how a guy goes from being a factory worker to a police officer to being Franz Stangl, commandant of Treblinka concentration camp. Essentially, it's ACAB taken to it's furthest logical conclusion. It's based on interviews done with Stangl from his prison cell after Simon Wiesenthal spent years tracking him down in Brazil and getting him brought back to justice in Germany. Amazing book but of course, bleak as hell
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Aug 2, 2022 18:07
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