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Yeah and for those who don't know, comic retailers have to order copies of books months in advance. They have to estimate how many copies they can sell, whether it's worth ordering big for a given issue, which gets really fuzzy if it's a new title or an event and you can't gauge based on how well it usually does. Not knowing when you're actually going to get the issues you paid to try and sell can really screw you over.
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Aug 2, 2022 18:42
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Madkal posted:I know the general thing about Image being late for their releases was because....they are Image, but is there a bigger story about why the release of Image titles was so chaotic and it's impact on the industry as a whole. Was it just slow artwork? Was it soliciting titles that never existed? Loads of stuff, but mainly a lack of discipline and experience. As noted, the decentralized nature of the initial Image org meant that there were no "adults in the room" to handle editorial or financial oversight. Image was designed to be a series of independently owned and operated BUSINESSES, but most of the founders had zero business acumen to speak of. Early on, Malibu was handling the admin side of things, which helped a lot for the initial releases, but when Image split off things got much worse in a hurry. This was ESPECIALLY true for the founders who had already had issues with deadlines back when they were working for mainstream publishers, with proper editors and organizational support. Things got worse with the arrival of the "second wave" creators, who were lured to Image with the same general "hands off, you own it" deal. Now you had creators with no business experience being recruited by OTHER creators with no business experience and no structural or administrative support to help with nearly any aspect of it. But THIS time, the names of the creators alone weren't enough to guarantee sales. And most of the books just weren't very good. (I love Jerry Ordway, but - gun to my head - I couldn't tell you a single thing about "WILDSTAR" except that one character has his face pulled off by a starfish at some point. Or maybe his face WAS a starfish.) Also, many of the founders focused heavily on just land-grabbing during the boom, building up huge stables of artists and soliciting many books that were rarely more than one line pitches and a pinup advertisement for Wizard. And those stables of artists tended to be very young - often with zero professional experience at all. That's a recipe for books that are late, terrible, or (as was the norm) both. To be fair, it's hard to blame them. EVERYONE was going nuts at that point cranking out as many #1 issues as possible to feed the speculator market and for a while the sales absolutely rewarded that strategy. But even in a speculation boom, there are only so many times someone is going to drag themselves into a comic shop looking for Youngblood #6, which has been delayed and resolicited for the thirty seventh time. There was also an obsession with getting the Image properties optioned for TV, movies, etc. that further distracted many of the founders, when they should have been focused on actually running their actual businesses. And with VERY limited exceptions, there was nothing TO option besides a brand and a few issues of deeply mediocre early-90s nonsense. I remain SHOCKED that the Spielberg-helmed "DOOM'S IV" movie that Liefeld regularly talked about never materialized. My pet theory that I'd add is that most of the founders didn't actually LIKE making comics. As soon as the money started rolling in and it seemed like they could do just as well paying other people to take on the artistic duties, nearly all of them pushed back from the drawing table and only ever returned for "special" projects after that. Larsen is the clear exception, which is why Savage Dragon continues to come out like clockwork with Larsen responsible for nearly all aspects of it. It's also the only founding Image book that I think actually holds up for modern readers.
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Aug 3, 2022 05:34
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"Kyle Rayner's girlfriend will make her exit in issue 54" is certainly a way to refer to what happened in that issue and what it kicked off. I'm also in favor of you posting Cut & Print regularly since I was never too into comics during this time but I remember a lot of the comic based TV and movie stuff, so that's definitely some of the most interesting stuff to me. Like Wizard saying in this issue that Robin Williams officially signed on as The Riddler in Batman Forever when as far as I know he'd turned it down. Also all of the things mentioned in the beginning of this issue happened, weirdly! The HBO Spawn cartoon did happen, and I think it turned out pretty good, I only saw an episode or two because we didn't have HBO growing up. The Savage Dragon cartoon went to USA, and I thought Wildcats did too, but apparently it actually aired on CBS first for a single season before being booted to USA. I don't know anything about Savage Dragon but I know the Wildcats cartoon was apparently pretty bad. Anyway, I really should read Bone sometime.
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Aug 3, 2022 08:50
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funtax posted:My pet theory that I'd add is that most of the founders didn't actually LIKE making comics. As soon as the money started rolling in and it seemed like they could do just as well paying other people to take on the artistic duties, nearly all of them pushed back from the drawing table and only ever returned for "special" projects after that. Larsen is the clear exception, which is why Savage Dragon continues to come out like clockwork with Larsen responsible for nearly all aspects of it. It's also the only founding Image book that I think actually holds up for modern readers. That even seemed to trickle down to things like Cliffhanger years later. Joe Mad and Campbell immediately took all the option money they could - which I stress is fine, get that paper - and only Humberto Ramos seemed to want to put out work regularly.
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Aug 3, 2022 11:55
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I remember battle chasers having under 5 issues and like one of the reasons for the delay is that Mad was playing a video game and then he was trying to branch battle chasers into a video game or something
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Aug 3, 2022 15:07
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TV Zombie posted:I remember battle chasers having under 5 issues and like one of the reasons for the delay is that Mad was playing a video game and then he was trying to branch battle chasers into a video game or something final fantasy
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Aug 3, 2022 15:31
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TV Zombie posted:I remember battle chasers having under 5 issues and like one of the reasons for the delay is that Mad was playing a video game and then he was trying to branch battle chasers into a video game or something Battle Chasers ran for 9 (and a bit) issues between April '98 and Sept '01 (Joe Mad did 911). The prelude book through issue 4 came out via Image in '98, then issues 5-8 via DC between '99 and '01, finally wrapping up with issue 9 back at Image in 2001. They solicited an 10th issue but put it on hold for a game deal. The game was released in 2017, partially via Kickstarter.
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Aug 3, 2022 18:04
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gently caress I forgot about Battle Chasers. I have the trade somewhere. I kind of liked it and was sad to find out that the series was pretty much dead. I remember a random Wizard issue I had in the early 2000's (might have been in the late 90's even but I didn't really start reading Wizard until early 2000's) which compared three "indie" companies to figure out which one was the best (indie in brackets because one of them was Marvel Knights). The compared Cliffhanger, ABC, and Marvel Knights and the article mentioned delays quite often.
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Aug 3, 2022 18:11
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Madkal posted:gently caress I forgot about Battle Chasers. I have the trade somewhere. I kind of liked it and was sad to find out that the series was pretty much dead. When we get to him it'll be interesting to see if Wizard talks about Joe Mad taking the world by storm. I mean, I'd bet money they did. He was quite the revelation with the manga-esque style at the time. I remember liking him a lot. Especially which ever Age of Apocalypse X-Men book he did.
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Aug 3, 2022 18:45
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The Savage Dragon cartoon premiered in 95 and lasted two seasons. The episodes were mostly self contained, but there was a crossover episode with a character that jumped through multiple cartoons that aired on the USA network. The first season is pretty forgettable, but the second season had a pretty cool animated opening and unique title cards drawn by Larsen.
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Aug 3, 2022 19:13
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Thanks for putting this thread together, great to see these scans. They bring back a lot of good and bad memories. Loved poring through the Wizard mags as a kid. I landed an internship at Wizard back in 2006-07, long after the salad days of the mag were over. It was at the time they shifted to a wider size and pretty much were all in on being a "pop culture" magazine that also included some comics stuff in the back. It was kind of sad to finally get to go inside the place I had seen in the magazines for so long, but it was clearly not that place anymore. They had all the requisite "fun stuff" like pinball tables and air hockey in the office, but absolutely no one had any time to use it. Too busy getting eaten alive by Newsarama and the very concept of the internet - Wizard waited far too long to pivot online and never caught up. No one had any use for comic news that's weeks late when they could get it on the internet. At that point people will only buy your magazine for the quality of the content in it, and, well..... Everyone who worked on the magazine itself was really nice and into comics, so I'm glad most of those people ended up at Marvel/DC/Boom as stuff closed up shop. The ownership had absolutely no interest in comics at that point though, just blowing money on mixed martial arts leagues and using insider knowledge to scalp comics and then sell them at mark-up on their website. Best thing I got out of the job was a few years of freelancing on Wizard Universe website no one read and learning that journalism was not the career path for me. That and snagging a whole bunch of Wizard/Toyfare back issues and figure exclusives they still had rotting in the warehouse.
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Aug 3, 2022 20:10
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ruddiger posted:The Savage Dragon cartoon premiered in 95 and lasted two seasons. The episodes were mostly self contained, but there was a crossover episode with a character that jumped through multiple cartoons that aired on the USA network. The first season is pretty forgettable, but the second season had a pretty cool animated opening and unique title cards drawn by Larsen. Speaking of animation efforts at the comic store I worked at we found a bootleg of the Gen 13 movie, whose only vocal cast I remember was Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers as Grunge. which was produced but not released (before WB made it popular. It was not great. In typical Rob Liefeld fashion he talked up the Youngblood cartoon to high heaven that didn't even get that far.
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Aug 3, 2022 20:26
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Yeah that was a huge problem in 90s comics. Not only were they late but most of the creators stayed on for what felt like a hot second then pawned it off on someone else. I'd say its why a lot of these creators and comics ended up going nowhere. If you were liking Shi then all new art and writing team popped up why would you stick around if you liked the original run? (Capullo's Spawn stuff I remember being much better than McFarlane's but this is usually an exception.) I mean I can kinda understand Portacio's issues because family deaths and all but most of us have to get back to work in a week tops because bills and our jobs simply do not give a drat about the loss of a loved one. Makes me wonder how some of these comics folks can afford to live period unless they are mostly just moonlighting in comics. There is still a lot of this now but the indie scene I guess can do Patreon or freelance type stuff. I think that's how Empowered works and physical book folks like me just see something every year or two in the former and I guess Blue Monday is the latter though its creator hasn't even made an issue in years though I've seen her do the odd fill in issue on various DC books over the years. (Plus there are those books from people who seem like the income comes from tons of variant covers of a nude type if the endless listings in the Comic Release are anything to go by. Are people that hard up for boobies they will pay 10-20 bucks for drawn naked comic covers? I know there is a lot of really skeevy Rule 34 out there but cmon. Its just sad.) It did also feel like a lot of those 90s folks were just wanting to get into real media or just be ip farms though as folks have kinda mentioned. But most of them didn't actually put in the effort to earn it. Yet artists like Mike Turner seemed to be busting rear end while getting cancer and eventually dying to it. Even if you didn't like his stuff you gotta respect the guy's commitment.
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Aug 3, 2022 20:33
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ruddiger posted:The Savage Dragon cartoon premiered in 95 and lasted two seasons. The episodes were mostly self contained, but there was a crossover episode with a character that jumped through multiple cartoons that aired on the USA network. The first season is pretty forgettable, but the second season had a pretty cool animated opening and unique title cards drawn by Larsen. Weirdly the only real exposure I had to Savage Dragon outside of seeing ads for it on USA and seeing it mentioned in Wizard, was also a "crossover" in an issue of the Sonic comic book where Savage Dragon made a cameo appearance on a splash page with a few other comic characters (I think Spawn was maybe another one?).
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Aug 3, 2022 20:57
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Captain Rufus posted:
I didn't read Spawn so I probably read in Wizard that McFarlane and Capullo switched roles (Pencils and inks) earlier than they announced it officially, and Todd was amused that they got complaints about the art change only after the announcement.
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Aug 3, 2022 21:59
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TV Zombie posted:I remember battle chasers having under 5 issues and like one of the reasons for the delay is that Mad was playing a video game and then he was trying to branch battle chasers into a video game or something He's a talented dude who CLEARLY loved games more than comics from early on. And, credit where credit is due, he put himself out there and not only founded a couple of studios, but put out some decent games along the way (in addition to some pretty spectacular failures, of course). [EDIT] Oh god... he's trying to make an MMO again. DON'T DO IT, JOE!!! Just make chunky platformers!
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Aug 4, 2022 06:13
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Hope this thread hasn't died, I was loving the nostalgia trip.
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Aug 29, 2022 06:54
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It hasn't. I mostly did these threads in between duties at work. Well we're in the process of moving, and it's been a pain. Haven't had a lot of time the last couple weeks. I plan on being back sometime this week or next.
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Aug 29, 2022 13:58
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And we're back. Sorry for the delay folks. But let's get back to 1994... Wizard Magazine Issue #35 July 1994 Cover  Contents   Magic Words!       Wizard News        The Weapon X-Files        Dark Knights       Career Moves         A New Hyborian Age     Big Babies Babies gone! Drawing Board      Hunk & Babe  Cut & Print     Top 10 Heroes and Villains   Comic Watch  The Top 10 The Bad Girl World is upon us.   Todd McFarlane's E.G.O.  Wizard Profile  Random Ads        
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Sep 9, 2022 13:20
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George Perez just straight up saying he likes drawing Starfire because he's horny is great
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Sep 9, 2022 14:33
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Pretty wild that Dream is Hunk of the Month again, almost 30 years later.
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Sep 9, 2022 14:42
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Gerhard was a top tier inker/background artist. I believe Sim became too much even for him and he wound up selling his shares in the company.
Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Sep 10, 2022 |
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Sep 9, 2022 17:24
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Yeah, Sim was in the middle of publishing his first misogynist screed “Reads” at this point. If you read between the lines, Gerhard already seems like he doesn’t want to be associated with the story (“it’s Dave’s story, I wouldn’t presume to tell him how to do anything”).
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Sep 10, 2022 15:24
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Wizard Magazine Issue #36 August 1994 Cover   Contents   Magic Words!       Wizard News        Send In The Clone      Less Than Zero         A Shock To The System      The King         Drawing Board      Hunk & Babe  Cut & Print     Top 10 Heroes and Villains   Comic Watch  The Top 10   Todd McFarlane's E.G.O.  Wizard Profile Uhhhhhhhh, we'll skip it this month. Yeah. Nothing to see here. Random Ads       
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Sep 12, 2022 18:32
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Was gonna ask why you weren't posting the profile and then I saw who it was and, well, good call.
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Sep 12, 2022 18:41
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RevKrule posted:Was gonna ask why you weren't posting the profile and then I saw who it was and, well, good call. I looked it up, and now I regret I did that.
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Sep 12, 2022 19:26
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Huh, I must've had a subscription to this because I've recognized these last two issues and I'm pretty sure I had mostly stopped by comics at this point. Also wonderful quality in that top 10 list, read #2 and #3.
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Sep 12, 2022 19:32
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X-O posted:Wizard Magazine Issue #36 August 1994
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Sep 12, 2022 20:09
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Darthemed posted:The thought of Harlan Ellison doing comics for Full Moon is giving me heart palpitations. A couple issues later it says he signed on to do a comic, but it never materialized as far as I can tell.
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Sep 12, 2022 20:17
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Always nice to see some Kirby respect in that era E:oh it's because he'd died that year. Still though
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Sep 12, 2022 20:18
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I'm reaaaaallllly curious what happened between Stroman and Johnson to immediately dissolve a comic and stop working together. Does this come up again or has either ever spoken on the subject? Oof on that obscenity charge. "We thought you might be a serial killer and were wrong, I guess we'll find a nebulous, difficult to argue charge instead!"
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Sep 12, 2022 20:22
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Endless Mike posted:I'm reaaaaallllly curious what happened between Stroman and Johnson to immediately dissolve a comic and stop working together. Does this come up again or has either ever spoken on the subject? This is what was printed in Heroes Illustrated.   
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Sep 12, 2022 20:38
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WIZARD TOP 10: WHERE ARE THEY NOW? Issue 34, June 1994 #10 Green Lantern #47 (Green Arrow guest appearance, shoved between major storylines): Barely selling, various non-sales under $2. QUARTER BIN FODDER Issue 35, July 1994 #3 Gen13 #2 (low order run): I can't find any sales at all. QUARTER BIN FODDER #6 Shi #1 (BAD GIRL ALERT!!!): A bundle of four signed copies sold for $50. QUARTER BIN FODDER #8 Vengeance of Vampirella #1 (BAD GIRL ALERT!!!): One sold for $4. QUARTER BIN FODDER Issue 36, August 1995 #1 Supreme #12 (Cover by that Platt guy): No individual sales, but there's some lots including it for around $2 a book issue. QUARTER BIN FODDER #2 Deathblow #5A (retailer special Whilce Portacio cover): Sales are all $2-3 QUARTER BIN FODDER #3 Kindred #3A (Tell me if you've heard this one before: retailer special Whilce Portacio cover): Sales are all $5-6 QUARTER BIN FODDER YEAR 3 TOP 10 COMIC STATS This was another varied year. Of 120 appearances, 39 were first appearances (one more than the previous year), and 8 appeared the previous year. Appearances by publisher: Marvel 56 DC 24 Image 14 Valiant 13 Malibu 5 Chaos 4 Crusade 2 Harris 2 The overall spread is a bit more varied than last year with four publishers appearing for the first time (three of them from the BAD GIRL trend that was starting this year). Valiant went from King poo poo to barely showing up, and mostly on the back of some Joe Quesada art, which I can't blame anyone for. Overall appearances: Marvel 189 Valiant 78 DC 40 Image 37 Malibu 5 Chaos 4 Crusade 2 Harris 2 Welsh 2 Dark Horse 1 Image's inability to actually publish comics really hurt them, with DC having a great year by killing Superman, turning Hal Jordan evil, and breaking Batman's back. We'll see if they can maintain that momentum! Marvel had a great year, but they're still coasting on a very strong first year. Most Valuable Comic: Steven Platt. That's it. If it had Steven Platt it was a good buy! If it didn't, it was poo poo! (Technically Amazing Spider-Man #300 had one appearance this year and beat Platt's books, but no fewer than four Platt comics appeared.) Longest time in top 10: New Mutants #87 still has the record with 15 appearances, though Rai #0 made a run, finally petering out at 10. Looking at this year only, Wolverine #75 made it to seven appearances, with Moon Knight #55 and Daredevil #319 tying for second with six appearances, but none closed out the year. I can't imagine we'll see anything making it over a year again, but I could be surprised! There's a bunch of books that made one appearance before disappearing: Batman #500, Superman: The Man of Steel #25, Action Comics #689, Adventures of Superman #466, Green Lantern #50, Moon Knight #60, Fantastic Four #381, Catwoman #1, Avengers West Coast #102, X-Men Unlimited #3, Supreme #12, Deathblow #5A, and Kindred #3A (those last three all appeared in issue 36, so I'm guessing they'll be back). Series with the most comics appearing: Moon Knight, of course, has issues 55-57 and 60 all appearing. Batman (#492, 497, 500) and Green Lantern (#46-47, 50) tie for runner-up with three issues each. Endless Mike fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 20:39
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Spoiler for 37 four alt Portacio covers in the Top 10!
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Sep 12, 2022 20:49
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Huh, that's a pretty eventful month. I'm kinda aware of Event Comics, Ash had a crossover with Azael that I have, but it did lead to Marvel Knights so it's worth noting, the whole Boiled Angels incident, and the groundwork for the Clone Saga being laid (if that Comic Watch is anything to go by). poo poo was loving happening. Something about that Harley Quinn in the Drawing Board looks very early-2000s to me, I feel like I had a comic that looked very much like that. It was last issue, but Acclaim buying Valiant is the beginning of the end for them, right?
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Sep 13, 2022 03:29
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catlord posted:It was last issue, but Acclaim buying Valiant is the beginning of the end for them, right? Pretty much. Also soon or perhaps already Shooter would quickly establish Defiant with the Valiant folks who didn't like how things were going which would quickly under and then Broadway Comics which had even less of an impact. I still remember watching a QVC thing with Shooter shilling Defiant comic cards and just looking like he didn't care at all. The man has talents but PR and sales I don't think are among them.
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Sep 13, 2022 13:35
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Defiant already happened the year before this and already got sued by Marvel!
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Sep 13, 2022 14:18
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Endless Mike posted:Defiant already happened the year before this and already got sued by Marvel! Why were they sued? I'd forgotten about that.
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Sep 13, 2022 14:29
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Dawgstar posted:Why were they sued? I'd forgotten about that. Defiant announced a book called "Plasm" which Marvel claimed was a violation of their trademark for the Marvel UK character "Plasmer" so Defiant renamed it to "Warriors of Plasm". Marvel continued the suit, which Defiant ultimately won, but the court costs put them out of business anyway, so mission accomplished.
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Sep 13, 2022 18:17
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I hope plasmer shows up in the mcu
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Sep 13, 2022 18:35
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