the demokkkrats are going to be destrroyed in 2024 (inshallah)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > the demokkkrats are going to be destrroyed in 2024 (inshallah)

spacemang_spliff: Nov 29, 2014; wide pickle

Subvisual Haze posted:

That's really weird to have a constitutional amendment during a primary election, isn't it? It sounds like more of a general election thing.

yeah it is, I've never seen it, that's why I thought it would pass. Turns out it doesn't work if you write an amendment even republicans don't like

# ? Aug 3, 2022 14:10

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# ? May 25, 2024 01:50

Business Gorillas: Mar 11, 2009

Pryor on Fire posted:

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1554681903537594369

This kinda feels like wishful thinking from Dems but maybe not?

We're gonna get a whole bunch of "Dems are gonna sweep the midterms" think pieces so the libs stay home in November

Good for Kansas but I'll wait for the Dems to not get destroyed in 2022 until I see it

# ? Aug 3, 2022 14:11

spacemang_spliff: Nov 29, 2014; wide pickle

also I think the amendment was a reaction the KS supreme court saying that abortion was a right in KS, not a result of Dobbs. Dobbs I think just made the consequences of passing it more real for people who could afford to just go out of state.

also retaining supreme court justices is somehting that is on the ballot in the general so who knows, the supreme court in KS is decently popular because Brownback's tax cuts forced a ton of rural school closings a few years back and the court said that Brownback had to actually fund schools. My old boss was on a rural school board and he hated going because basically all he'd do is get yelled at because the school board constantly had to say "there's no money to keep this school open so we have to consolidate it, now your kids have a 30 - 45 minute one way bus ride"

spacemang_spliff has issued a correction as of 14:16 on Aug 3, 2022

# ? Aug 3, 2022 14:13

mediaphage: Mar 22, 2007; Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

spacemang_spliff posted:

It is. Cross posted from the succzone:

lol the referendum failed because it went too far. Here's the text:

WHEREAS, This proposition to amend the bill of rights of the constitution of the state of Kansas shall be known and may be cited as the Value Them Both Amendment.

Now, therefore:
Be it resolved by the Legislature of the State of Kansas, two-thirds of the members elected (or appointed) and qualified to the Senate and two-thirds of the members elected (or appointed) and qualified to the House of Representatives concurring therein:

Section 1. The following proposition to amend the constitution of the state of Kansas shall be submitted to the qualified electors of the state for their approval or rejection: The bill of rights of the constitution of the state of Kansas is hereby amended by adding a new section to read as follows:

�� 22. Regulation of abortion. Because Kansans value both women and children, the constitution of the state of Kansas does not require government funding of abortion and does not create or secure a right to abortion. To the extent permitted by the constitution of the United States, the people, through their elected state representatives and state senators, may pass laws regarding abortion, including, but not limited to, laws that account for circumstances of pregnancy resulting from rape or incest, or circumstances of necessity to save the life of the mother.�

Section 2. The following statement shall be printed on the ballot with the amendment as a whole:
�Explanatory statement. The Value Them Both Amendment would reserve to the people of Kansas, through their elected state legislators, the right to pass laws to regulate abortion because there is no Kansas constitutional right to abortion or to require the government funding of abortion.

�A vote for the Value Them Both Amendment would reserve to the people of Kansas, through their elected state legislators, the right to pass laws to regulate abortion because there is no Kansas constitutional right to abortion or to require the government funding of abortion.

�A vote against the Value Them Both Amendment would make no changes to the constitution of the state of Kansas and could prevent the people, through their elected state legislators, from regulating abortion in many circumstances. It would leave in place the newly discovered right to abortion first recognized in 2019.�

Take out the "including but not limited to rape or incest or circumstances to save the life of the mother" it likely passes. If it was a referendum just saying "no abortion after 12 (or even maybe 6) weeks" I think it def passes.

It failed in counties that will absolutely go for the republican on the ballot (whatever the candidate is running for)

Wyandotte County (where the dot for Kansas City is) and Johnson County (right below Wyandotte) predictably went with No, which are usually the only places democrats win in KS. Sometimes Douglas County (where the University of KS is) will go blue. The one that surprises me is Newton County (the one right above where Wichita is) since I lived there for a few years and it's definitely a small town kind of place, but there is a mennonite college there. There's also a college (Pittsburg St) in the No county down the lower right corner.

The No vote significantly outperformed what a typical democrat would do, like by a lot. No outperformed Trump lol. This was because the amendment was insane not because KS is going blue lol

Also, like the Yes side didn't do any kind of outreach and just assumed that they would win (sound familiar lol). I live in Johnson County and if I saw a single TV ad for Yes, it was completely unmemorable. What I did see a lot of was a No commercial that was very simple, it was a guy who said he was a physician and then it was a screenshot of the part above that I bolded and he simply said "This means that Republicans in KS will ban abortion in the case of rape, incest or risk of the life of the mother. Vote no." Real simple ad and it was played a lot.

Like even though abortion isn't popular in red states, there's bascially nowhere were like a total ban that even rich people can't get around is popular.

Democrats are still going to get destroyed in KS and everywhere else.

yeah this is absolutely being trumpeted by the khive et al as proof that dems are going to wipe the floor with the gop in the fall; meanwhile i read things like

like, the dems paying to support more maga candidates because they think they'll be easier to defeat, i mean, lol. not if trump deffo runs

# ? Aug 3, 2022 14:32

spacemang_spliff: Nov 29, 2014; wide pickle

mediaphage posted:

yeah this is absolutely being trumpeted by the khive et al as proof that dems are going to wipe the floor with the gop in the fall; meanwhile i read things like

like, the dems paying to support more maga candidates because they think they'll be easier to defeat, i mean, lol. not if trump deffo runs

here in KS, Schmidt who is hte current AG and is a stop the steal maga guy won his primary by 100k more votes than Kelly who is the incumbent Democrat Governor

like it is possible for someone to be a maga and also to think that rape victims should be able to get an abortion. I know this is hard for the media to understand but it's absolutely true

# ? Aug 3, 2022 14:43

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

mediaphage posted:

yeah this is absolutely being trumpeted by the khive et al as proof that dems are going to wipe the floor with the gop in the fall; meanwhile i read things like

like, the dems paying to support more maga candidates because they think they'll be easier to defeat, i mean, lol. not if trump deffo runs

What's really funny about that Michigan one there is that it's for a seat that hasn't had a dem in it since Nixon was president. Literally burning money.

That said there was some redistricting so maybe they're pinning their hopes on that changing the outcome but man just like boosting Trump in 2016 it's extremely dumb.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 14:46

Zvahl: Oct 14, 2005; научный кот

spacemang_spliff posted:

here in KS, Schmidt who is hte current AG and is a stop the steal maga guy won his primary by 100k more votes than Kelly who is the incumbent Democrat Governor

like it is possible for someone to be a maga and also to think that rape victims should be able to get an abortion. I know this is hard for the media to understand but it's absolutely true

No! Two parties! Only these viewpoints! Anything else and you're Russian!

# ? Aug 3, 2022 14:46

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Hell! World! Hell! World! Hell! World! Hell! World!

# ? Aug 3, 2022 14:59

smug jeebus: Oct 26, 2008

evilpicard posted:

Lol that Jonathan Stewart is more effective at strongarming congress than the last 2 democratic presidents

Yeah it'd be nice if he cared about anything other than sucking up to veterans

# ? Aug 3, 2022 16:07

Fart Dumbass: May 31, 2022; by Fluffdaddy

Tankbuster posted:

The republicans are openly campaigning to take away basic family planning away. Plenty of people who would be otherwise checked out will turn out to protect what meager liberties they have.

they won't, actually

# ? Aug 3, 2022 16:11

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

spacemang_spliff posted:

It is. Cross posted from the succzone:

lol the referendum failed because it went too far. Here's the text:

WHEREAS, This proposition to amend the bill of rights of the constitution of the state of Kansas shall be known and may be cited as the Value Them Both Amendment.

Now, therefore:
Be it resolved by the Legislature of the State of Kansas, two-thirds of the members elected (or appointed) and qualified to the Senate and two-thirds of the members elected (or appointed) and qualified to the House of Representatives concurring therein:

Section 1. The following proposition to amend the constitution of the state of Kansas shall be submitted to the qualified electors of the state for their approval or rejection: The bill of rights of the constitution of the state of Kansas is hereby amended by adding a new section to read as follows:

�� 22. Regulation of abortion. Because Kansans value both women and children, the constitution of the state of Kansas does not require government funding of abortion and does not create or secure a right to abortion. To the extent permitted by the constitution of the United States, the people, through their elected state representatives and state senators, may pass laws regarding abortion, including, but not limited to, laws that account for circumstances of pregnancy resulting from rape or incest, or circumstances of necessity to save the life of the mother.�

Section 2. The following statement shall be printed on the ballot with the amendment as a whole:
�Explanatory statement. The Value Them Both Amendment would reserve to the people of Kansas, through their elected state legislators, the right to pass laws to regulate abortion because there is no Kansas constitutional right to abortion or to require the government funding of abortion.

�A vote for the Value Them Both Amendment would reserve to the people of Kansas, through their elected state legislators, the right to pass laws to regulate abortion because there is no Kansas constitutional right to abortion or to require the government funding of abortion.

�A vote against the Value Them Both Amendment would make no changes to the constitution of the state of Kansas and could prevent the people, through their elected state legislators, from regulating abortion in many circumstances. It would leave in place the newly discovered right to abortion first recognized in 2019.�

Take out the "including but not limited to rape or incest or circumstances to save the life of the mother" it likely passes. If it was a referendum just saying "no abortion after 12 (or even maybe 6) weeks" I think it def passes.

It failed in counties that will absolutely go for the republican on the ballot (whatever the candidate is running for)

Wyandotte County (where the dot for Kansas City is) and Johnson County (right below Wyandotte) predictably went with No, which are usually the only places democrats win in KS. Sometimes Douglas County (where the University of KS is) will go blue. The one that surprises me is Newton County (the one right above where Wichita is) since I lived there for a few years and it's definitely a small town kind of place, but there is a mennonite college there. There's also a college (Pittsburg St) in the No county down the lower right corner.

The No vote significantly outperformed what a typical democrat would do, like by a lot. No outperformed Trump lol. This was because the amendment was insane not because KS is going blue lol

Also, like the Yes side didn't do any kind of outreach and just assumed that they would win (sound familiar lol). I live in Johnson County and if I saw a single TV ad for Yes, it was completely unmemorable. What I did see a lot of was a No commercial that was very simple, it was a guy who said he was a physician and then it was a screenshot of the part above that I bolded and he simply said "This means that Republicans in KS will ban abortion in the case of rape, incest or risk of the life of the mother. Vote no." Real simple ad and it was played a lot.

Like even though abortion isn't popular in red states, there's bascially nowhere were like a total ban that even rich people can't get around is popular.

Democrats are still going to get destroyed in KS and everywhere else.

This . If it had included carveouts. It probably would have passed. Hell if it put in place Mississippi restrictions it would have passed with 75%.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 16:16

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

spacemang_spliff posted:

yeah it is, I've never seen it, that's why I thought it would pass. Turns out it doesn't work if you write an amendment even republicans don't like

Republicans processed lower turnout = more right wing, but lower turnout actually = richer. That benefits them electorally but I suspect it doesn't help for things like abortion.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 17:02

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

Pryor on Fire posted:

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1554681903537594369

This kinda feels like wishful thinking from Dems but maybe not?

People will show up to vote on a question about abortion. It would be very unwise if the democrats to assume that will translate to people showing up to vote for them in November since they will not be campaigning on the issue beyond vague platitudes.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 17:11

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

spacemang_spliff posted:

here in KS, Schmidt who is hte current AG and is a stop the steal maga guy won his primary by 100k more votes than Kelly who is the incumbent Democrat Governor

like it is possible for someone to be a maga and also to think that rape victims should be able to get an abortion. I know this is hard for the media to understand but it's absolutely true

even a surprising number, if not outright majorities, of democrats think abortion should be confined to the first trimester and only done for certain reasons ("I don't want a baby" isn't one of them).

and a surprising number of republicans, especially those who are libertarian-leaning, don't think it's up to the government to determine whether you can get an abortion.

it's an unfortunate echo-chamber effect to caricature all republicans as handmaid's tale villains, and for the politically engaged to see ideology as a left-center-right continuum.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 17:17

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

even in the first three months a solid majority (of voters, not dems) is against abortion bc "she doesn't want it":

# ? Aug 3, 2022 17:22

1glitch0: Sep 4, 2018; I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE #HUFFLEPUFF

Willa Rogers posted:

even in the first three months a solid majority (of voters, not dems) is against abortion bc "she doesn't want it":

lol more people are for aborting a fetus if it has down syndrome than if the women simply doesn't want to give birth.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 18:08

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

1glitch0 posted:

lol more people are for aborting a fetus if it has down syndrome than if the women simply doesn't want to give birth.

yeah; americans have weird notions about "deserving" things.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 18:17

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

Tankbuster posted:

The republicans are openly campaigning to take away basic family planning away. Plenty of people who would be otherwise checked out will turn out to protect what meager liberties they have.

Yeah that sounds rough, let me just check real quick which party was in control when roe v wade was struck down.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 18:33

Zvahl: Oct 14, 2005; научный кот

Willa Rogers posted:

yeah; americans have weird notions about "deserving" things.

i think after seeing hillary clinton's reaction to literally everything political she's done that this is more broadly understood in america at least

# ? Aug 3, 2022 18:36

Parity warning: Nov 1, 2009; 3rd Place, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

posters in the 'spam should know better than to conflate voting directly on policy with voting for democrats to trust them to enact or protect it, just imo

# ? Aug 3, 2022 19:03

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

Parity warning posted:

posters in the 'spam should know better than to conflate voting directly on policy with voting for democrats to trust them to enact or protect it, just imo

especially since the democrats are a big tent party on abortion rights

# ? Aug 3, 2022 19:06

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Parity warning posted:

posters in the 'spam should know better than to conflate voting directly on policy with voting for democrats to trust them to enact or protect it, just imo

yeah, missouri voters supported expanded medicaid in 2020 while electing republicans for statewide offices.

Shear Modulus posted:

especially since the democrats are a big tent party on abortion rights

this too. I hope cuellar loses in november.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 20:02

Subvisual Haze: Nov 22, 2003; The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.

quote:

� 22. Regulation of abortion.
Because Kansans value both women
and children, the constitution of the
state of Kansas does not require
government funding of abortion
and does not create or secure a
right to abortion. To the extent
permitted by the constitution of the
United States, the people, through
their elected state representatives
and state senators, may pass laws
regarding abortion, including, but
not limited to, laws that account
for circumstances of pregnancy
resulting from rape or incest, or
circumstances of necessity to save
the life of the mother

I wouldn't read too much into Kansas voters choosing not to approve this legal word salad.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 20:59

FreeRangeHexagon: Apr 17, 2022

It really comes down to whether or not the Democrats can feign enough empathy for people who care about abortion rights to trick people into thinking they give a poo poo. They don't even really have to do all that much, the American people are so beaten down that even vague allusions to wanting to help people without proposing anything actually substantive should work. idk if the dems can even do that. 10 to 15 years ago the dems were just as evil as they are today, but I swear they knew how to fake caring about things back then in a way they just can't anymore.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 21:34

Nothus: Feb 22, 2001; Buglord

If they were smart, they would use front groups to put draconian anti-abortion referendums on the ballots of every key state and then use them to drive turnout.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 21:38

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Nah, that sounds like exactly the kind of stupid thing that they're smart enough to do.

# ? Aug 3, 2022 21:41

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

Halloween Jack posted:

Nah, that sounds like exactly the kind of stupid thing that they're smart enough to do.

Also they'd gently caress it up by making it just not draconian enough to spur turnout and would we'd have a bunch of bans passed with very narrow exemptions for rape or incest early in the first trimester but only if you pray with your priest and abuser about it for 48 hours straight first while staring at an ultrasound.

Thoguh has issued a correction as of 21:50 on Aug 3, 2022

# ? Aug 3, 2022 21:47

FreeRangeHexagon: Apr 17, 2022

or a bunch of dems would come out supporting those laws in a bird brained attempt to appeal to "moderate" voters who want common sense anti abortion laws

# ? Aug 3, 2022 21:53

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

https://twitter.com/dancow/status/1...ingawful.com%2F

# ? Aug 3, 2022 22:12

COPE 27: Sep 11, 2006

Nothus posted:

If they were smart, they would use front groups to put draconian anti-abortion referendums on the ballots of every key state and then use them to drive turnout.

like helping the most extreme republicans get elected to drive turnout"?

# ? Aug 3, 2022 23:23

How!: Oct 29, 2009

unwantedplatypus posted:

Or they can be radicalized in the other direction. Socialism or barbarism as always. Plus, you know, minorities can also have guns. I wonder if there�s historical precedent for rolling in marginalized groups as part of a greater socialist coalition

Where I live the black panthers organized to patrol black neighborhoods while armed to attack whites. My town was the apparently the bombing capitol of the world during the civil rights movement due to the klan attacking black churches. Medgar Evers actually used to speak at the church around the corner.

On Juneteenth we had about 200 heavily armed black people March from a place called the Devils Punchbowl to city hall. People sure were scared about �all the gangs gathering.� lol.

There are socialists in the south, but they aren�t white. They�re certainly armed though. I know the people who run the African American History Museum here and god drat I love when they rant about white liberals.

e: sorry forgot- the significance of the devil�s punch bowl is that is was an open air prison for all the free blacks to die immediately after the civil war. They got quite literally walled in by a palisade and died in the swamp by the thousands.

The towns called Natchez, if anybody cares. Also I�ve got the 2nd largest slave market just a mile from my house, which is now govt projects.

How! has issued a correction as of 23:39 on Aug 3, 2022

# ? Aug 3, 2022 23:32

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

lol SURPRISE

https://twitter.com/AlexYablon/stat...ingawful.com%2F

# ? Aug 3, 2022 23:51

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

they don't have to listen to the parliamentarian at all btw

# ? Aug 3, 2022 23:52

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

Fart Dumbass posted:

they won't, actually

In referenda and the like I mean. They aren't going to vote for the local friendly CIA girlboss.

# ? Aug 4, 2022 00:10

Nothus: Feb 22, 2001; Buglord

Thoguh posted:

Also they'd gently caress it up by making it just not draconian enough to spur turnout and would we'd have a bunch of bans passed with very narrow exemptions for rape or incest early in the first trimester but only if you pray with your priest and abuser about it for 48 hours straight first while staring at an ultrasound.

Ideally you'd made them non-binding jibberish, but they'd gently caress that up too

# ? Aug 4, 2022 00:42

unwantedplatypus: Sep 6, 2012

How! posted:

Where I live the black panthers organized to patrol black neighborhoods while armed to attack whites. My town was the apparently the bombing capitol of the world during the civil rights movement due to the klan attacking black churches. Medgar Evers actually used to speak at the church around the corner.

On Juneteenth we had about 200 heavily armed black people March from a place called the Devils Punchbowl to city hall. People sure were scared about �all the gangs gathering.� lol.

There are socialists in the south, but they aren�t white. They�re certainly armed though. I know the people who run the African American History Museum here and god drat I love when they rant about white liberals.

e: sorry forgot- the significance of the devil�s punch bowl is that is was an open air prison for all the free blacks to die immediately after the civil war. They got quite literally walled in by a palisade and died in the swamp by the thousands.

The towns called Natchez, if anybody cares. Also I�ve got the 2nd largest slave market just a mile from my house, which is now govt projects.

I'm reading Huey Newton's autobiography right now. It's amazing what the Panthers were able to do, even if only for a short while. For that while, they were able to protect many black communities from the terror of police violence. And they were killed for it.

But yeah, I live in the South too, grew up here. I have no illusions about the whites who are petite-bourgeois or high-income workers. They are pretty much the prime demographic for fascist radicalization. Still, I think there's room for a left here. There needs to be a left here, if for no other reason than the demographic I just mentioned.

# ? Aug 4, 2022 03:30