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Polo-Rican posted:i'm not usually one to nitpick what feel like plot holes, but this one genuinely bugs me: how do OJ and Emerald not know about the UFO if Steven Yeun is apparently hosting weekly ufo shows, which he apparently advertises and sells tickets for, right next door? In general, Yeun's story felt way too detached from OJ and Emerald's: like a parallel story when they should have been intersecting. What we saw, the "friends and family showing" that Jupe invited them to, was the first public showing. He had been doing it later at night by himself for months trying to "earn the 'Viewers'' trust" / unwittingly train Jean Jacket on a diet of regularly supplied horses. You actually see the last of the preparatory shows when Ghost freaks out and runs to the bottom of the Haywood ranch. That said, I don't know why OJ hadn't noticed Jupe's shenanigans before that. Maybe he just had his head down (thematically appropriate!) and focused on ranching after his dad died. Ranching's hard work. E: Famethrowa posted:what I took from it, is that Yeun precipitated the events of the entire movie by leaving out food for the monster, because he had an unhealthy relationship with animal "costars". kind of a grizzly man situation. Exactly. Phy fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Aug 3, 2022 |
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Aug 3, 2022 15:21
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Polo-Rican posted:I enjoyed this movie a lot, but it actually made me feel the same way I felt watching "Us." I loved the first half, was thinking "this is the greatest film I've ever seen" during the earlier action setpieces, but then ended up feeling vaguely unsatisfied by the end as the film got messier and moved towards the finale.
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Aug 3, 2022 15:24
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Basically Jupe thought he'd tamed a monster that he'd merely fed. That's kinda the main theme.
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Aug 3, 2022 15:46
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Yeah despite his massive animal-related PTSD Jupe is a man who did not grow up having it hammered into him that a fed bear is a dead bear.
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Aug 3, 2022 16:04
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What are people's view on the final shot? did OJ actually survive or was that just a vision from Em? It doesn't actually matter much but I'm kinda surprised it's not discussed more than it is One thing Peele excels at is how race, even if it is not the primary focus of the film as it is in Get Out or Us, is always a pervasive, important, irreducible factor in everything occurring. Because we live in America, and it's impossible for it not to be. The Haywood family's blackness is an essential part to who they are, what options are open to them, how they are treated by others, and what choices they take - and all of that is handled in a very realistic and at times fairly subtle way. It's well done.
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Aug 3, 2022 16:31
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It's that libertarian township in NH only instead of a bear some old lady is feeding Jean Jacket donuts and just shrugging when the sugar crazed ufo monster is turning everyone's yard inside out looking for sweets.
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Aug 3, 2022 16:34
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Steve Yun posted:Do you guys remember a pig on a roof in the movie? I must’ve missed it the pig survived because it can’t look up This is a hilarious visual gag shot that Peele holds forever because the pig is on the sherrif's office. It's multiple seconds of an anti-cop joke that still fits thematically and I love it.
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Aug 3, 2022 17:51
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Mike N Eich posted:One thing Peele excels at is how race, even if it is not the primary focus of the film as it is in Get Out or Us, is always a pervasive, important, irreducible factor in everything occurring. Because we live in America, and it's impossible for it not to be. The Haywood family's blackness is an essential part to who they are, what options are open to them, how they are treated by others, and what choices they take - and all of that is handled in a very realistic and at times fairly subtle way. It's well done. I've seen people make complaints that Nope is kind of vague about what it "means", which is understandable because it has a lot of signals, but I really appreciate that. It's really nice being able to just kind of digest it for a while, and even though I haven't been able to come to a concrete conclusion, it's made me think about a lot of the themes longer than films with more obvious messages, but without feeling dissatisfied. The racial themes are particularly interesting - all the main characters are non-white aside from the cinematographer (who only seems to join in because he's facing death already, and ultimately sacrifices himself in an effort to be immortalized, which just causes problems for everyone else and is for naught anyways). There are some pretty clear parallels between JJ and the entertainment industry/exploitation of suffering, but I also kept thinking of slavers abducting (black, asian, etc) people to grind them to death, which loops back around to the "dancing monkey" vibe of Gordy. And then there's the slightly off-key moment at the end, where Em gets her Oprah shot and looks, with joy, as the media arrive, which seems to suggest that the cycle hasn't ended. There's this air of menacing inconclusiveness, but not incompleteness, which I think Us tried to angle for with its surreal nightmare vibe but didn't nail. edit: also it's possible i'm just dumb Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Aug 3, 2022 |
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Aug 3, 2022 18:04
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Panfilo posted:The show that got everyone abducted was the first public show, the others were "rehearsals". this makes sense to me and is what I assumed. the audio in my theater was surprisingly bad and it was a little hard to hear some of the dialogue Mike N Eich posted:One thing Peele excels at is how race, even if it is not the primary focus of the film as it is in Get Out or Us, is always a pervasive, important, irreducible factor in everything occurring. Because we live in America, and it's impossible for it not to be. The Haywood family's blackness is an essential part to who they are, what options are open to them, how they are treated by others, and what choices they take - and all of that is handled in a very realistic and at times fairly subtle way. It's well done. in a film that's about the harm of pointing cameras at things, it's also an amazing choice to name the main character "OJ," and to have a white character remark on that at the beginning. OJ (the character) will forever be haunted by the trial and crimes of another black man (Simpson) - but he wouldn't have this burden at all if that trial weren't so televised. the only reason the OJ trial is so deeply rooted in american consciousness is because there were so many cameras present Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Aug 3, 2022 |
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Aug 3, 2022 18:20
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Eh, I mean the trial was such a big deal because he was a famous and famously likable man who was accused of brutally murdering two people and then went on a very public low-speed chase while his friend was on the phone with the media and he was heavily implying he was going to kill himself. It was a huge spectacle well before the trial. But yes, the name OJ really overtly ties into the idea of spectacle and how it profanes us all
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Aug 3, 2022 19:24
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Magic Hate Ball posted:The racial themes are particularly interesting - all the main characters are non-white aside from the cinematographer (who only seems to join in because he's facing death already, and ultimately sacrifices himself in an effort to be immortalized, which just causes problems for everyone else and is for naught anyways). There are some pretty clear parallels between JJ and the entertainment industry/exploitation of suffering, but I also kept thinking of slavers abducting (black, asian, etc) people to grind them to death, which loops back around to the "dancing monkey" vibe of Gordy. I was intensely and uncomfortably aware of how much OJ and Lucky standing on the stage felt like they were up for auction. Their reprieve from the film execs eyeing them up and down like slabs of meat was only granted from his sister showing up and doing an affected jive-y salespitch. Peele knows what he is doing. It's kinda scary how well he hits the mark with every scene
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Aug 3, 2022 19:59
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Famethrowa posted:I was intensely and uncomfortably aware of how much OJ and Lucky standing on the stage felt like they were up for auction. Their reprieve from the film execs eyeing them up and down like slabs of meat was only granted from his sister showing up and doing an affected jive-y salespitch.
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Aug 3, 2022 20:05
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We know Peele's original cut was something like 3 hours long and a lot got trimmed out. I know someone was talking about the cut subplot from Jupe's backstory about Mary Jo having a stalker and that he was the one that would have shot Gordy, and there are those two quick shots of him in the trailer (one of which has him watching footage of a chimp in a tux looking extremely aggressive with the dialog over it saying "don't look, don't look"). Do we know what else got cut out? Was there more about OJ and Em's mother? Anything else really interesting?
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Aug 3, 2022 20:05
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I’m a very “give me 90 minute runtimes or give me death” kind of guy but knowing what we know about the scenes that were cut, I’d watch a 4 hour version of Nope
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Aug 3, 2022 20:29
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I'm honestly not sure I could handle it again as is, that gordy sequence hosed me up good, but I'm interested in reading in depth about what was shot and cut, and even ideas that got cut prior to shooting.
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Aug 3, 2022 20:38
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I know about the Gordy incident before I saw the movie but having that "spoiler" actually ADDED to the tension. Because I didn't know exactly how it would play out. It's like reading a spoiler for Alien thats basically "The alien attacks the crew while they were eating and kills one of them". You know one of them is going to die but you don't know exactly how it will happen. And the scene thats playing at the time has the cast so visibly uncomfortable which just adds to the tension.
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Aug 3, 2022 21:46
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I admire the restraint in not Bringing Ghost back for the end and having OJ run off on a white bronco
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Aug 3, 2022 21:59
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Opopanax posted:I admire the restraint in not Bringing Ghost back for the end and having OJ run off on a white bronco This was the first thing my fiance said as we were walking out of the theater
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Aug 3, 2022 22:11
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Some pretty funny jump scares- The mantis jumping in front of the camera (and having the audience likely react the same way emerald did). And the plastic horse head inexplicably crashing through the windshield of OJs truck. The first two trailers were really good, even the spoilery third one was good too- The fist bump was assumed to be an alien hand by many viewers, by being blood soaked and clearly not human. OJ getting chased by something you can barely see visible about to come around the corner people assumed to be an alien, other quick shots you could freeze frame and see the crouching alien by the light switch. This along with the alien plushies made it look like it was aliens, they had been visiting us, and people were cargo culting about their presence. The lady with the disfigured face looking up, I really doubt people guessed "she must have gotten mauled by an ape and is visiting an old Co star running the show". The whole pageantry of Jupe's speech and the horse in a box made me think it was some sort of magic trick involving the aliens? Some people were speculating the aliens were turning people into horses or something. Even the poster with the cloud that had the flag tassels was a curve ball. I was thinking Jean Jacket was some kind of shapeshifting pennywise type fear gestalt, not some alien with indigestion. I heard Peele had a good time reading people's theories about the movie based on the posters and trailers.
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Aug 3, 2022 22:16
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I had been guessing that it was aliens show up, scare the ranchers, but turn out to be benevolent but they're being hunted by the government or the klan or something and the heroes have to protect them.
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Aug 3, 2022 22:31
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Panfilo posted:Some pretty funny jump scares- My theater was absolutely hootin' and hollering at the scene with the grey aliens in the stable, and then didn't really react to any of the "real" scares, which is kinda ironic lol
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Aug 3, 2022 23:21
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Panfilo posted:I know about the Gordy incident before I saw the movie but having that "spoiler" actually ADDED to the tension. Because I didn't know exactly how it would play out. It's like reading a spoiler for Alien thats basically "The alien attacks the crew while they were eating and kills one of them". You know one of them is going to die but you don't know exactly how it will happen. I will say that the moment Gordy appears bloodsoaked I knew at some point he was going to get his brains blown out, it was just a matter of when not if. Maybe a trainer, maybe the cops. I think that's probably why the stalker was cut, because he ruined the tension. I had my hands crawling up my face at every moment that chimp was on screen.
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Aug 3, 2022 23:43
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Mike N Eich posted:What are people's view on the final shot? did OJ actually survive or was that just a vision from Em? It doesn't actually matter much but I'm kinda surprised it's not discussed more than it is on the one hand i can see why there's debate over whether OJ is alive or dead, but i for one choose to believe he's alive -- not just because it makes for a happier ending (although that is a significant portion of it!), but also because him being dead undermines the whole thing he was doing with jean jacket right there at the end. he wasn't presenting himself as a tasty snack to distract the alien away from em (even though i DO believe he was fully prepared to sacrifice himself in that moment, if it came to it); he was returning the creature's dominance display, partly to hold its attention and partly to stand up to it in its own language. at that moment it had already been spooked by the flags, then injured by the barbed wire, and while it's not made 100% clear why it started to change shape afterward, i think it was performing a threat display to make itself seem bigger and more dominant in response to whatever the gently caress had just hurt it, and the only thing left to do in response to that was to let it know that there was an even bigger threat right in front of it. or something. that's just what i believe, anyhow more importantly: OJ = orange juice = orange hoodie = coincidence????????????
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Aug 4, 2022 02:07
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With the weird pulsing squares of film-like substance, I like to imagine JJ itself was taking pictures of OJ to try to figure out what the hell he is
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Aug 4, 2022 02:10
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Martman posted:With the weird pulsing squares of film-like substance, I like to imagine JJ itself was taking pictures of OJ to try to figure out what the hell he is yeah, this makes a lot of sense to me too! that the square thing is its actual "eye", like an old-timey camera, and is the point of view through which we saw both the very opening of the film and the starlight lasso audience getting sucked up, and that the pulsating flaps are it "taking a picture" to see what's going on. i also like the idea that it's a mesmerizing sort of display, as cuttlefish have been observed to do while hunting crabs. there's just so much going on with this thing and i wanna know more! i love it!!!
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Aug 4, 2022 02:33
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Panfilo posted:Some pretty funny jump scares- Best was Angel's coworker teleporting behind him to say 'sup
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Aug 4, 2022 03:04
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Solovey posted:yeah, this makes a lot of sense to me too! that the square thing is its actual "eye", like an old-timey camera, and is the point of view through which we saw both the very opening of the film and the starlight lasso audience getting sucked up, and that the pulsating flaps are it "taking a picture" to see what's going on. i also like the idea that it's a mesmerizing sort of display, as cuttlefish have been observed to do while hunting crabs. there's just so much going on with this thing and i wanna know more! i love it!!! the eye unfolding was it's shutter speed, right? like the flipbook at the beginning
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Aug 4, 2022 03:08
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Universal making sure you caught all the cleverness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-upty5Xfy8
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Aug 4, 2022 03:47
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I dont think there is anything in the movie, that scene, or the general themes to justifiably make the case that OJ is killed offscreen.
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Aug 4, 2022 04:48
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Any animal I've met from sharks to gorillas that have shown me threat displays have backed off after I just slowly wasn't aggressive at all or backed off, and thats all I saw, from my experience. It showcased, and then chased something else was what I saw.
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Aug 4, 2022 05:12
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Animals in the wild tend to avoid actual fights they aren't entirely sure of easily winning, and confrontation tends to be settled with threats and posturing if at all possible. After all, for most animals an actual fight is like a knife fight for humans- the winner just bleeds out later.
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Aug 4, 2022 06:43
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TheBizzness posted:I’m a very “give me 90 minute runtimes or give me death” kind of guy but knowing what we know about the scenes that were cut, I’d watch a 4 hour version of Nope I'm of two minds: I'm also interested in seeing more of Nope and hope it all ends up on Bluray some day, but I feel like the theatrical cut is perfect just the way it is and they were right to take out what they did. The stalker subplot sounds interesting and I want to see it, but I'm glad it wasn't in the movie because it wasn't needed and wouldn't have added anything that wasn't already there. We saw exactly as much of Gordy's home that we needed to see, it's already perfectly terrifying as is. Edit:  Yeesh, in addition to mocking the Gordy's Home attack that issue of MAD is also making jokes about the Heaven's Gate cult. Plays well into the whole "horrific tragedy turned into cheap entertainment" theme of the film. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Aug 4, 2022 |
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Aug 4, 2022 07:12
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Yeah I have to agree, based on everything I’ve heard about the assembly cut I think the theatrical made all the right moves, but I’d definitely watch the assembly as a fun curio.
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Aug 4, 2022 10:15
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Edit: Of course there's a smashed camera on the left there, and the scattered film and balloon around it looks like fur.
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Aug 4, 2022 12:58
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War and Pieces posted:not only did he get killed, he put them all in mortal danger This was in line with one of the things I was picking up in Nope, which is that all animals and phenomena, no matter how well studied they are, are inherently unpredictable, including humans. We have rules and laws and systems that help us manage the inherent chaos of reality, and they mostly work, but everything is liable to zag on us at any time, for reasons that make sense, but often only after they’re sussed out and examined in hindsight. If you, with the amount of information that a neighbor might possess, looked at Jupiter, his business and his expressed desires and concluded “this is a mentally unwell man who, in his mind, is still a child hiding from a rampaging chimp in a tv studio, and he is trying to close the repeating loop of trauma by gaining mastery over a different threatening predator” you’d be one of those magic brained tv detectives and, therefore, not exist. But that’s what’s going on and that’s what makes him unpredictable in the moment, understandable after analysis. Then a situation which started with the unlikely encounter between a predator and a man that is psychologically primed to attach to that predator and assign it a role in his internal drama is made worse because OJ doesn’t call the authorities once he knows for a fact there’s something dangerous in the skies.he does this because he needs money to keep his family legacy running (a legacy that’s failing for the same reason Jupe is traumatized, ie even trained animals are unpredictable on a set with so many changing variables at play), and letting a state agency take over would spoil that. He makes things worse for reasons that only make sense if you know his situation and relationship with that legacy; his understanding of animals made him valuable in a deadly situation, but at the stage where he’s needed it’s at least partly of his making. Then the cinematographer might seem weird and a little hostile, but why would you assume as an outsider to his life that he was such a disillusioned, selfish idealist that he would snap during the JJ encounter and murder himself while putting multiple other people at risk? It only makes sense with information we the viewer have, and it still caught me off guard when he goes for it. JJ is an alien presence in the environment, but at the end of the day it’s a predator that strayed from its normal territory, then was tempted to stay instead of encouraged to leave; it zagged by showing up, then a number of people made everything worse by zagging for deeply personal reasons, creating this horrifying spectacle of death and violence that has to be answered with escalating, desperate violence by the people trapped inside. We’re predators but we’re also so weak to much of our environment without tools we make with inborn talents, like communication, teamwork, and our ability to predict or create outcomes through observing interactions and recognizing patterns, and scenarios like the one presented in Nope highlights that those talents are not without inherent flaws, and can imperceptibly draw us into delusional behavior that exacerbate the issues we’re trying to comprehend and manage.
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Aug 4, 2022 17:11
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It's sad that a year or two after Spielberg dies, when they obviously remake Jaws, the casting for Quint will never be as surprisingly on-point as Michael Wincott. (thought brought on by watching this a second time and feeling like an idiot only NOW realizing the hand cranked camera was also an allusion to Quint) LesterGroans fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Aug 5, 2022 |
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Aug 5, 2022 04:02
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Jupe stuff Basically Jupe thought he'd tamed a monster that he'd merely fed. That's kinda the main theme. Yes, exactly. Jupe is interesting, because he's essentially a Ke Huy Quan type, but if he willfully ignored how the system exploited him and then abandoned him. He was an Asian child actor who saw himself as some leading man, but who was actually just as much a novelty and a curiosity as Gordy was. I think it's telling that during Gordy's rampage, Jupe was terrified because he felt like he was as much a target as the rest of the cast, but Gordy still saw an equal and a friend. As if Gordy understood Jupe to be as exploited and Othered as he was. Hence the fist-bump. Now, as an adult, Jupe still refuses to process his trauma over the incident or see his youth for what it really was. Instead, he recreates the cycle of exploitation by attempting to wrangle and tame an un-tameable thing in the pursuit of more spectacle and fame. And like fame, it once again (now literally) chews him up and spits him out.
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Aug 6, 2022 00:37
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Xealot posted:Yes, exactly. Nope: Gordy doesn't see Jupe as an equal, he fails to notice him until the balloons have stopped popping and he's calmed down. He even signs something like "where family go" before he looks up and sees Jupe. Saying that they're equals or that Gordy recognizes him as kin or whatever is specifically what Jupe thought and is antithetical to the actual point. They're both being exploited, but Gordy is an animal and is incapable of understanding or agreeing to be exploited and is by his nature unpredictable. Jupe is happy to be exploited if he can get scraps of the spectacle to exploit himself. It's even why he bills himself as Jupiter instead of Ricky.
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Aug 6, 2022 00:44
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Baron von Eevl posted:Nope: Gordy doesn't see Jupe as an equal, he fails to notice him until the balloons have stopped popping and he's calmed down. He even signs something like "where family go" before he looks up and sees Jupe. Saying that they're equals or that Gordy recognizes him as kin or whatever is specifically what Jupe thought and is antithetical to the actual point. They're both being exploited, but Gordy is an animal and is incapable of understanding or agreeing to be exploited and is by his nature unpredictable. Jupe is happy to be exploited if he can get scraps of the spectacle to exploit himself. It's even why he bills himself as Jupiter instead of Ricky. I viewed Jupe as profoundly lacking self-awareness. Like, I don't think he views himself as having been exploited, prefers to maintain the illusion that his TV family was like a real family, that the Gordy incident was some freak accident, that Kid Sheriff is some still-valuable IP that matters and not just a racist relic that tokenized him. The way he speaks about his Gordy museum feels like a desperate attempt to claim ownership over something really horrible that happened to him, to place himself above it all, which I think applies equally to Jupiter's Claim in general. Maybe he does have some clarity about it deep down, but I saw his behavior as willful self-deception. That he needs to view his career through rose-colored glasses to be functional.
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Aug 6, 2022 01:23
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For the above reasons, I think Jupe Is the most interesting character in the movie
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Aug 6, 2022 01:32
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