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Seems like they'd be a pretty hot spot for refugees
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Aug 6, 2022 01:49
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 18:12 |
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Do we know what the defensive situation is for China's Asian land border(s)? Because I'm trying to think of what the Allies would have to do to break their stalemate with China, and if China's land borders are more porous than their coasts (especially if their central-Asian puppet states fall) I'm thinking the Allies might have to try to throw additional help to the RRP against the WRE, for a number of reasons. As soon as the RRP is done with the fascists, they are clearly going to move down their list to the WPO as their next target before striking at the Allies. More ideologically opposed and a history of the communists in this world feeling like liberal democracy has a chance to just metamorphosis into communism eventually. Even if the RRP can't make immediate moves against China, Somalia would be a natural target, and one which, if taken out, would enormously consolidate all lines towards China and its neighboring clients. Opening up an extremely elongated front on China's land borders could cut China's effective military capability to defend itself to a fraction as it stretches itself thin. The RRP also boasts a number of countries that, unless I'm mistaken, are punching way above their often already very substantial weight in terms of industrial production. With the stalemate being held off the shores of China, theoretically the Allies could actually avoid cutting their naval blockades short while still ferrying support through the RRPs own well-protected supply lines. Basically unless there's stuff I'm missing it would seem to me that the Allies' best long-term bet is to put their own boot down to the fascists in order to expedite the RRPs kind-of inevitable clash with the WPO to relieve pressure off themselves. Whether that's something that is possible without extremely heavy-handed scripting is something that I wouldn't really know anything about but my gut feeling is that it's basically impossible for the AI to come to the conclusion of fighting the WRE on its own.
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Aug 6, 2022 01:53
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ZiegeDame posted:Seems like they'd be a pretty hot spot for refugees Also defectors/deserters and espionage/intrigue and friction when allies-of-convenience/enemies-in-name-only meet on neutral ground; and other general political-backstabbery shenanigans due to the fact it's a losing proposition to stay truly-neutral when superpowers are slugging it out next door, and one side has designs on ruling the world and has no reason to abandon those plans in a hypothetical postwar situation where there's nobody capable of opposing them.
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Aug 6, 2022 02:04
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It's wonderful to see this continue.
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Aug 6, 2022 06:40
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Kangxi posted:Love the idea. All we need is an image for it. To be honest I'm not sure what a RRP gang tag would look like. A scroll of each member's flag with a Smash the Fash - Red Rose Pact text?
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Aug 6, 2022 08:20
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A baseball bat with Red Rose Pact hitting a fascist in the face
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Aug 6, 2022 13:02
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a still starting on the Irish PM's salute, slowly but acceleratingly flipping between leaders until its a baseball bat to the fash's face
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Aug 6, 2022 15:56
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Gosh this is nice to see back. I'm hoping for more but it's just so good to see all these folks again!
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Aug 6, 2022 18:07
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Romes Delenda Est?
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Aug 8, 2022 05:59
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This world ain't big enough for all these Romes.
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Aug 8, 2022 06:07
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Rome is where the heart is.
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Aug 8, 2022 07:36
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Empress Theonora posted:Rome is where the heart is. Listen, everyone out there tries to be Rome. France, Russia, Byzantium. They all try or have tried, but they failed. They're just not the same. I guess what I'm getting at here is that there's no place like Rome.
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Aug 8, 2022 08:10
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NewMars posted:Listen, everyone out there tries to be Rome. France, Russia, Byzantium. Let us not forget the most important Rome of them all... MIGHTY RHODES, 4TH ROME!
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Aug 8, 2022 09:18
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None of this would have happened if we'd just maintained our unassailable status as Rome.
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Aug 8, 2022 09:22
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LJN92 posted:Let us not forget the most important Rome of them all... All Romes lead to Rhodes.
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Aug 8, 2022 09:23
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ByzLP: Far From Home, or No Way Rome?Freudian posted:All Romes lead to Rhodes. 
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Aug 8, 2022 09:25
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Freudian posted:All Romes lead to Rhodes. Yes please
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Aug 8, 2022 10:08
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Freudian posted:All Romes lead to Rhodes. Excellent
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Aug 8, 2022 11:59
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Freudian posted:All Romes lead to Rhodes. Magnificent.
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Aug 9, 2022 00:04
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So quick questions from doing a re read 1) Did Lithuania always have elections? Or are those new? 2) the little circles under oil, rubber etc, I assume that means that if they are green its full but does blue mean its full to capacity?
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Aug 9, 2022 09:26
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Green is what the country natively produces and uses, blue is what they import, and I thiiink yellow is what they export, but I don't have the save in front of me right now. Also apparently Lithuania has had elections since the beginning of HoI4, which I guess is a bug in the mod, since they're meant to be Müllerists. Oh well! Let's just call them sham elections and move on, I guess. 
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Aug 9, 2022 17:28
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Revisionists lurk amongst us 
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Aug 9, 2022 17:44
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Empress Theonora posted:Green is what the country natively produces and uses, blue is what they import, and I thiiink yellow is what they export, but I don't have the save in front of me right now. Maybe they have actual union elections that control the local-most politics while national politics remains in the grip of the party directorate? No reason why there wouldn't be variations on the theme given that actual Müller wound up being a failure in the end.
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Aug 9, 2022 18:17
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Most positions are unelected but they do get to vote in the popular radio show "Who Wants To Be A Müllernaire?"
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Aug 9, 2022 20:24
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Wait, what happened with the North German Federation? I remember that we won the Alt-Spanish Civil War but maybe they got mulched right after by the WRE.
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Aug 9, 2022 21:10
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They're still there they're just not actually involved with the war I think?
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Aug 9, 2022 21:20
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habeasdorkus posted:Wait, what happened with the North German Federation? I remember that we won the Alt-Spanish Civil War but maybe they got mulched right after by the WRE.  Still around, rebuilding from the war. We'll be seeing more from them
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Aug 9, 2022 23:03
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Yeah. As of that SotW, they have some volunteers fighting with the Allies, but they aren’t actually a member of any faction, so they aren’t a belligerent in either half of the Third Great War.
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Aug 10, 2022 19:36
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So btw I don't recall it being specifically mentioned, but how exactly did Azerbaijan change government? Was it part of its own national focus tree or was there some kind of diplomatic action or something (absolutely no experience with HOI, IV or otherwise) that we pulled?
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Aug 11, 2022 04:12
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GunnerJ posted:Mary Napier's glamor shot doesn't have poo poo on Aoife O'Connor's sailor scout salute/wink. it's very good
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Aug 12, 2022 16:10
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stumblebum posted:Do we know what the defensive situation is for China's Asian land border(s)? Because I'm trying to think of what the Allies would have to do to break their stalemate with China, and if China's land borders are more porous than their coasts (especially if their central-Asian puppet states fall) I'm thinking the Allies might have to try to throw additional help to the RRP against the WRE, for a number of reasons.  So the thing we saw in the SOTW is that the western land border of China is under substantial threat: Tibet is already in Allied hands. This is a much better situation than trying to take the coastal borders of China, which as readers of OTL WW2 know is a nightmare (especially if you try to come from the south! Those mountains are no joke!). Unfortunately there are two major negatives here. The first is that, as wide as that Western border is and as successful as the Hindustani forces have been, the logistic capacity there is dreadful, placing a severe bottleneck on any forces getting supplied across the Tibetan Plateau or the Tarim Basin pushing into China. I do not know how HOI4 models such things but I can't imagine it being anything other than a dramatic drag on the allies. The second is that the WPO has pushed through the Zagros mountains further west already, which is not a great sign for the Allies. This to me sounds like there's now two competing clocks of each side advancing west->east, rather than the Allies just simply having the initiative in Tibet to use as they see fit. Honestly I'm not super optimistic about the Allies long-term prospects; time seems to be on the WPO's side and the Allies have political tensions that could be exploited if the war starts to really go sideways (most scary is of course a separate peace with Marathas). I have full faith in the RRP's ultimate victory over fascism, but I suspect they may find themselves bailing out a sinking Alliance rather than finding useful contributors against the WRE.
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Aug 12, 2022 16:43
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I'd love to see an infrastructure map of the world to kind of get an idea how messed up things'll be
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Aug 12, 2022 16:48
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Jeoh posted:I'd love to see an infrastructure map of the world to kind of get an idea how messed up things'll be Yeah I'd love to see this too. I'm assuming for the most part that things are similar, because a lot of what drives infrastructure investment is industrial investment, which is driven by population density, which is driven by agricultural productivity, which is driven by geographic concerns, with a major extra limiter caused by rough terrain (which feeds into agricultural productivity but can hit twice - or hit independently, e.g. Fujian). But obviously a lot of what drives infrastructure is the legacy of colonialism and path-dependent economic development, so there are areas that I'm assuming are a lot more developed than OTL. Ghana's coastline, Anatolia, the Chinese heartland, much of South America and for that matter South Eastern North American, all seem like regions where the different borders and different countries would encourage more development than happened historically. The one area that I'd suspect is substantially less is the American midwest. OTL the American midwest is the center of an ocean-to-ocean superpower that contains both an agricultural heartland and a natural transportation super-utility in the Mississippi. In this timeline its functionally all controlled by the Ayiti ("Oklahoma is midwestern" is a heretical but not impossible belief), but for the Ayiti that's not the geographic center between the two most powerful economic nodes of their territory but comprises some of the border with another competing superpower. I don't know their most economically productive regions but based on their ports it looks like the Chesapeake, Mississippi Delta, and of course Caribbean (a famously underdeveloped region OTL), meaning that their logistic nexus is going to be, well, saltwater shipping, which even with railroads is hideously efficient. Germany might be slightly less developed, since a lot of the factors that lead to the underdevelopment of the Chinese heartland OTL apply better to Germany in this LP, but I hesitate to comment.
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Aug 12, 2022 17:20
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Tulip posted:
Im hoping that we will be able to free France and then begin crushing Somalia or the Ming as fast as humanely possible. The WPO is the next biggest threat we face and I am scared that we may not have the resources to rise to the occasion.
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Aug 12, 2022 22:45
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Josef bugman posted:Im hoping that we will be able to free France and then begin crushing Somalia or the Ming as fast as humanely possible. The WPO is the next biggest threat we face and I am scared that we may not have the resources to rise to the occasion. Base HOI is meant to simulate a scenario where 2 of 3 alliances gang up on the 3rd and grind it into dust and then settle into a long cold war after. I...cannot see RRP and WRE reaching any sort of peace agreement with the states being intact, the WRE is fascists and fascists need to kill or they die and the RRP is both the ideologically and geographically most important to exterminate. But I can see the Allies and WPO entering into a less total peace, possibly in reaction to the inevitable extreme intensity of a broad land-war between two enormous powers who cannot countenance the survival of the other. Not that I think its likely, but its on the table in a way that a WRE-RRP peace treaty/cold war isn't. So we have two world wars going in parallel. WRE-RRP is going to end with one or the other alive, that feels like a given. Allies-WPO I can see having more varied outcomes 1) Total WPO victory 2) Total Allied victory 3) Partial victory for either side 4) Draw, turning into Cold War 5) War does not end before WRE-RRP war In the event of 5, the RRP could throw in with the allies or not depending on their level of exhaustion. If we get WRE and #5, I think actually the WRE goes to war with WPO, since Somalia is the only reachable target of any note. In the event of 1 and a RRP victory I suspect that if both sides are near-parity its a cold war and if one side is dominant they finish off the other. In the other events I expect the RRP to settle into a cold war. Not sure what the WRE would do. #5 produces the worst situations for the WPO, and so while I don't think the AI is set up for this, I think an intelligent player in the WPO seat would, when the WRE-RRP war starts to turn one direction or the other, starts looking for some sort of rapid exit strategy. But this is just me musing some crude game theory poo poo rather than any deep understanding of HOI mechanics.
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Aug 13, 2022 00:23
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Yeah, maybe I got my supposition reversed. Maybe it's not that the Allies could/should stomp the WRE to expedite assistance from the RRP but more that the RRP needs to eclaire the fascists ASAP in order to prop up the Allies as a companion front against the WPO before the Jimao war ends.
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Aug 13, 2022 02:23
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This discussion and the world map reminded me that I made a tool to generate various forms of world maps from HoI4 saves: https://github.com/ParadoxGameConverters/HoI4MapDrawer I might try adding a mode that shows industrial development.
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Aug 13, 2022 05:20
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Tulip posted:
Invading coastal China in HoI4 is preferable to fighting through the west, which is a mix of low supply desert and mountains. Depending on the conversion its also where most of their industry and victory points are concentrated. WW2 Japan pursued the correct strategy, they were just incompetent.
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Aug 13, 2022 14:31
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Morrow posted:Invading coastal China in HoI4 is preferable to fighting through the west, which is a mix of low supply desert and mountains. Depending on the conversion its also where most of their industry and victory points are concentrated. WW2 Japan pursued the correct strategy, they were just incompetent. Not speaking as a HOI expert so much as a person with some history background but Japan's strategy was probably about as successful as it possibly could have been without them having a completely different demography going back hundreds of years: Tulip posted:I feel like these two maps next to each other help:
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Aug 13, 2022 15:56
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I've actually thought about it more and there's another possibility I hadn't considered. If the Jimao war ends in the WPOs favor before the RRP can wheel around out of the Imperial war, and the RRP decides that it isn't confident enough to directly confront the WPO right away, I could see the RRP getting real down and dirty and shivving the Allies while they're down. If supporting a two-front against Ming is not a viable strategy, then the next best bet would be to consolidate the Americas under undisputed communist rule, both as a potential platform for fighting against Ming in the Pacific theater as well as being set up as a sort of "lifeboat" for communism in case of losing the old world to an ascendant WPO.
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Aug 13, 2022 18:38
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