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The JLI were "my" Justice League so I'd definitely like to see something like that on screen. It wasn't just the comedy (and they often had serious stories interposed with the wacky), so much as a general sense that these people live together and have to tolerate each other and deal with their reputation as a group, etc. The whole idea of them being backed by the UN was also a nice touch. That'd be my big wanna-get from the DCU, that and a New Gods movie that looks like Kirby did the production design. I know that poo poo's hard to pull off in live action but someone's gotta try dammit. (I envision something between the 1980 Flash Gordon and Lynch's Dune.)
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Aug 7, 2022 05:01
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They were your Justice League yet you still blew Ted Kord's brains out
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Aug 7, 2022 05:23
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Maxwell Lord posted:The JLI were "my" Justice League so I'd definitely like to see something like that on screen. It wasn't just the comedy (and they often had serious stories interposed with the wacky), so much as a general sense that these people live together and have to tolerate each other and deal with their reputation as a group, etc. The whole idea of them being backed by the UN was also a nice touch. After the success of stuff like GOTG and Peacemaker, JLI would be a slam dunk.
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Aug 7, 2022 05:37
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Man of Steel is so biblical it’s crazy.
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Aug 7, 2022 05:45
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A JL that's full of bickering people sniping at each other juxtaposed with campy moments was exactly what Whedon delivered and it stunk. Alternatively that's also basically the Avengers, just done better McCloud fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Aug 7, 2022 |
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Aug 7, 2022 06:47
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DeimosRising posted:Superman Like everything cool about the Bible that poo poo is some clerical fan fiction. Tho after your post I looked it up and one of the actual 4 mentioned sins in the Bible is wage theft lol
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Aug 7, 2022 09:13
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roffels posted:Give me the 90s JLA with Booster Gold, Batman, Guy Gardner, Fire, Ice, and Blue Beetle.
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Aug 7, 2022 09:15
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McCloud posted:A JL that's full of bickering people sniping at each other juxtaposed with campy moments was exactly what Whedon delivered and it stunk. That was banter slapped on a group dynamic that wasn't really built for it. There's a different between that and actually writing a good comic situation.
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Aug 7, 2022 09:31
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The idea of UN-sponsored intervention has taken some real kicks since the early 90s.
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Aug 7, 2022 09:48
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I think the best vision of the DC Universe, outside of the DCAU, for better or for worse was in the late 90s and early 2000s when they really leaned into this sense of legacy and history with things. Hal Jordan and Barry Allen were both dead, replaced by one of the greatest superheroes of all time, Wally West. Superman was generally the first modern hero, but the Justice Society had been re-contextualized as having lived in the 1940s and you had really fun legacy stories with that including showing them going through McCarthy's America. And honestly some of the more compelling stories DC has produced--Harley Quinn's respective films, Young Justice, the recent Superman show, Batman's depiction in the Snyder films--work because they skip past origins and just get to the interesting parts and play with legacy: Harley and the Joker break up; Superman and Lois get married and have kids; Batman has lost his way and his family; The young supeheroes already exist and we see them grow up. I think if they did genuinely reboot the DC Universe and make it feel different than the MCU, make it this world where superheroes have existed for a century. Batman's Rogues gallery all exist. The Justice League already exists. Some heroes have even already died leaving things to a new generation. FUN FACT: This version of the DC Universe with this sense of legacy and mantles being passed down was mostly destroyed by Geoff Johns.
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Aug 7, 2022 13:17
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josh04 posted:The idea of UN-sponsored intervention has taken some real kicks since the early 90s. "Oh well." -Dr. Fate after seeing footage of four kids playing on a beach getting blown away by successive missiles intentionally aimed at them.
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Aug 7, 2022 13:40
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Maxwell Lord posted:The JLI were "my" Justice League so I'd definitely like to see something like that on screen. It wasn't just the comedy (and they often had serious stories interposed with the wacky), so much as a general sense that these people live together and have to tolerate each other and deal with their reputation as a group, etc. The whole idea of them being backed by the UN was also a nice touch. You mean the Giffen et al run? Would like to see Booster Gold and Blue Beetle flipping burgers for demons, lol. Also, I would love a Kirby-esque New Gods movie. It would be incredible. Things like this deserve to be on the big screen:  
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Aug 7, 2022 15:01
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Timeless Appeal posted:FUN FACT: This version of the DC Universe with this sense of legacy and mantles being passed down was mostly destroyed by Geoff Johns. Geoff Johns sucks so much
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Aug 7, 2022 15:03
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Huh, was that an intentional similarity in Man of Steel? In the movie Kryptonians tapping the planet's core as their primary energy source like how that panel describes Apokolips, which is what caused the planet to explode. Is that a thing in the comics?
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Aug 7, 2022 17:11
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Bogus Adventure posted:You mean the Giffen et al run? Would like to see Booster Gold and Blue Beetle flipping burgers for demons, lol. Kirby owns so hard. AS a kid and a teen, I didn't always appreciate what he brought to the table but the dude was a story telling machine and had an amazing sense of contrast, action, exaggeration and flow. I watched a documentary on him and the dude would pull off those pages from top to bottom and left to right within a single draft and no slip sheeting or light boxing. Incredible
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Aug 7, 2022 17:30
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Timeless Appeal posted:FUN FACT: This version of the DC Universe with this sense of legacy and mantles being passed down was mostly destroyed by Geoff Johns. Hal Jordan aside, my understanding was that that was more on DiDio, especially the complete removal of legacy (outside Green Lantern and Batman) from the New 52
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Aug 7, 2022 17:53
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McCloud posted:it's extra funny how meta this becomes because it allows the audience to project their own feelings and some go the Lex Luthor route of thinking Superman has a fod complex That's one of the things I like about the opening sequence where Superman saves Lois and takes the warlord through a wall. It happens so quickly that it definitely looks like the guy could have died from it, and I remember a lot of people being turned off the movie very early on because they assumed that was what happened. Later on Clark says that he didn't kill him, but the audience has had some time to sit with it for a while and form their own opinion. The audience basically has to decide whether they'll take Superman at his word, or whether they think he's a liar, and I think that informs their reaction to him for the rest of the movie.
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Aug 7, 2022 19:29
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He's dead as gently caress
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Aug 7, 2022 19:33
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Robot Style posted:That's one of the things I like about the opening sequence where Superman saves Lois and takes the warlord through a wall. It happens so quickly that it definitely looks like the guy could have died from it, and I remember a lot of people being turned off the movie very early on because they assumed that was what happened. Later on Clark says that he didn't kill him, but the audience has had some time to sit with it for a while and form their own opinion. The audience basically has to decide whether they'll take Superman at his word, or whether they think he's a liar, and I think that informs their reaction to him for the rest of the movie. Yeah, exactly. Snyder's playing with audience expectation and opinion with this. Do you believe him when he says he didn't kill anyone or do you believe the mainstream opinion pushed by the government and media. I actually just finished reading through the first three volumes of New 52 Superman - the run mostly written by Grant Morrison. Within the first five pages, Superman shows up and puts one person through a wall, some guy's head through another wall, another guy through a grand piano. It was actually kinda wild. I don't follow comics so maybe people exploded over that violence too. Only difference is that you don't see him doing it, just the results.
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Aug 7, 2022 19:39
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Barry Convex posted:Hal Jordan aside, my understanding was that that was more on DiDio, especially the complete removal of legacy (outside Green Lantern and Batman) from the New 52 Don't get me wrong, Johns also wrote a lot of great Flash stuff and built well off of Waid's reinvention of the character, but he also was working with editorial to set up things like Bart Allen being killed off after his Teen Titans run where we completely reworked the character. Johns was a strong writer when he build off of other writers, but the moment he became more embedded in editorial, he really railroaded things any chance he got.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:29
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Neo Rasa posted:Huh, was that an intentional similarity in Man of Steel? In the movie Kryptonians tapping the planet's core as their primary energy source like how that panel describes Apokolips, which is what caused the planet to explode. Is that a thing in the comics? No, kryptons implosion is usually depicted as a natural phenomenon, either by an unstable radioactive core or a sun going nova. It being the result of their own hybris and folly was pretty new. As for the comparison to Apokolips, there's also the whole bug theme they got going on on Krypton and the Parademons, and also the whole bit about lacking free will. I don't think they originally planned to make Krypton a sort of mini-apokolips, but I'm pretty sure they decided to build on it by BvS once the scope broadened.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:32
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Still reminds me that they already made the Superman movie that 'Superman fans' say they want, and no one liked it. Everybody liked it fine. The first time they saw it when it starred Christopher Reeve in 1978. People's problems with Returns wasn't that it was a Superman movie they wanted and didn't get. It was because it was a Superman movie they'd already seen only this time with a Super Kid, an Absentee Super Dad and a Creepy Super Xray Stalker this time as the only deviations from the (far superior) original, right down to a real estate scheme and a new Miss Teschmacher. No Otis this time, for good or for ill. Very cool plane crash scene though that surpasses any action scenes from the Donner films, so I'll give it that, and Brandon Routh was well cast but "not giving the audience the film they wanted" and people not digging it wasn't really the problem here.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:42
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RBA Starblade posted:He's dead as gently caress Hey now, Superman said he did not kill the guy, so he's still alive. *cut to the Fortress of Solitude with a crystal that contains the guy's soul energy as it screams forever in a Kryptonian hell.*
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Aug 7, 2022 21:27
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that actually touches on a funny point, in that comic book fans are outraged by Superman snapping Zods neck, but are totally fine with damning him to eternal damnation in the phantom zone. Zod even comments on this earlier in the film ZOD : You won't kill us yourselves! You wouldn't sully your hands! But you'll drat us to a black hole for eternity!
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Aug 7, 2022 21:56
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Obviously that pit in Superman 2 was just a few feet deep, otherwise Superman would have jumped in and saved Zod right
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Aug 7, 2022 22:06
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Actually the pit was infinitely deep, so Superman knew he had time.
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Aug 7, 2022 22:16
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RBA Starblade posted:He's dead as gently caress There is a scene in MoS where Superman catches a soldier that fell from a helicopter, and Superman actually rolls as he catches him mid-fall to counter the guy's momentum, otherwise he'd have been Gwen Stacy'd. It's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it thing, I didn't catch it myself. But it shows that this Superman would absolutely be able to tackle someone at full speed and then go through several walls without that person ever touching mortar.
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Aug 7, 2022 22:16
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Superman even does the same flip thing with the African warlord in BvS, shielding him from the impact of the concrete wall behind him. Clark wasn't lying when he said he didn't kill anyone there.
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Aug 7, 2022 22:39
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Detective No. 27 posted:Superman even does the same flip thing with the African warlord in BvS, shielding him from the impact of the concrete wall behind him. Clark wasn't lying when he said he didn't kill anyone there. Yeah. Meanwhile, Lois is being thrown around a plane in ways that would have her concussed and probably dead in any other movie during this scene while Superman tries to play catch-up with the falling plane, and it's touted as one of the best Superman scenes ever. I kind of hate this scene for how terribly it's set up, putting random limits on Superman's speed and strength while throwing Lois around like a rag doll, and rewatching it now, it just looks like poo poo. Did it always look this bad? Anyway, Snyder's Superman's abilities are fairly well-established, and he would have been able to tackle that warlord without killing him. This Superman can't even catch a plane without turning his ex into pulp, if she didn't turn invulnerable for five minutes there.
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Aug 7, 2022 22:53
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If one is fair to Superman Returns, the issue wasn't that Superman wasn't strong enough to stop the plane, it was applying enough pressure to stop it without destroying the plane. The comic books handwave this sort of physics issue by saying Superman extends his invulnerable biochemical aura over things that he tries to lift which is why he can carry a building with no problem instead of having it crumble around him, but the film chose to pay lipservice to the laws of physics I guess
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Aug 7, 2022 23:12
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McCloud posted:If one is fair to Superman Returns, the issue wasn't that Superman wasn't strong enough to stop the plane, it was applying enough pressure to stop it without destroying the plane. The comic books handwave this sort of physics issue by saying Superman extends his invulnerable biochemical aura over things that he tries to lift which is why he can carry a building with no problem instead of having it crumble around him, but the film chose to pay lipservice to the laws of physics I guess I remember a few critics pointing out the plane bit as the movie acknowledging at least some of the physical laws of the universe. Also cool was the bit where the machine gun bullet bounces right off of Superman's eyeball.
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Aug 7, 2022 23:17
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The other side of the coin is that the physics are conveniently forgotten when he lifts that kryptonite island into space
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Aug 7, 2022 23:22
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Lots of things about that scene should be forgotten, to be fair.
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Aug 7, 2022 23:23
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Grendels Dad posted:Yeah. Meanwhile, Lois is being thrown around a plane in ways that would have her concussed and probably dead in any other movie during this scene while Superman tries to play catch-up with the falling plane, and it's touted as one of the best Superman scenes ever. I kind of hate this scene for how terribly it's set up, putting random limits on Superman's speed and strength while throwing Lois around like a rag doll, and rewatching it now, it just looks like poo poo. Did it always look this bad? It looks loving great though? It's really bizarre to me to read a take that dumps a giant poo poo on what is by far the best scene in an otherwise pretty mediocre film that came out over 10 years ago. It was the only time in the whole film I was actually invested near as I can remember.
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Aug 7, 2022 23:23
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McCloud posted:If one is fair to Superman Returns, the issue wasn't that Superman wasn't strong enough to stop the plane, it was applying enough pressure to stop it without destroying the plane. The comic books handwave this sort of physics issue by saying Superman extends his invulnerable biochemical aura over things that he tries to lift which is why he can carry a building with no problem instead of having it crumble around him, but the film chose to pay lipservice to the laws of physics I guess Superman is also usually faster than he is in that scene, there is no need for him to fumble around with the plane's wing like he doesn't know how to touch this fragile thing or is running out of time. It's a scene solely constructed to have something appear challenging to Superman that by any indication the movie gives us, shouldn't be. The unbreakable island was mentioned, but doesn't he lift a yacht, like, vertically out of the water later on? BiggerBoat posted:It looks loving great though? It's really bizarre to me to read a take that dumps a giant poo poo on what is by far the best scene in an otherwise pretty mediocre film that came out over 10 years ago. It was the only time in the whole film I was actually invested near as I can remember. Sorry? I didn't like the scene when it came out and looking at it now, there are parts that look downright atrocious. That moment when he turns around and sees the plane is weirdly lit and looks awful, the whole weightless thing he has going on looks like he is underwater, it all looks green-screened to hell. Grendels Dad fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Aug 7, 2022 |
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Aug 7, 2022 23:28
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Grendels Dad posted:That moment when he turns around and sees the plane is weirdly lit and looks awful, the whole weightless thing he has going on looks like he is underwater, it all looks green-screened to hell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbNm789GzxE&t=132s They based a lot of movement off of Routh's swimming techniques.
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Aug 8, 2022 00:01
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roffels posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbNm789GzxE&t=132s That's cool but I guess for me it just didn't age very well as an effect, or didn't land in the first place. I'm pretty sure it's not used elsewhere in the movie and just looks out of place here.
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Aug 8, 2022 00:09
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That plane scene is a hall of fame superhero sequence for me, just masterful in how it builds and releases tension in perfect little moments. Genuinely incredible stuff. Pity the director is such an awful piece of poo poo. I like Returns quite a bit. I actually like Returns and MOS about the same. Both are very well directed with isolated cinematic moments that rank among the best the genre has to offer, but with odd, occasionally ill dramatised scripts with some baffling decisions. They're interesting to compare because they're both aiming to be quintessentially Superman and trying to examine what it means to be Superman, but laser focus on and find interest in completely different aspects of the character.
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Aug 8, 2022 00:49
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roffels posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbNm789GzxE&t=132s This was great. Also thank you for introducing me to that channel.
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Aug 8, 2022 01:00
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Karloff posted:... What is the quintessential Superman?
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Aug 8, 2022 01:00
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