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Keith put out some article in the guardian promising a green new deal (neo lib sytle) thats good for business and blah blah blah https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/03/britain-climate-crisis-where-ambition-cop26-tories-labour-green-recovery-plan Does anyone know if hes had any green inclinations/polices before? Or is this just sounds bites and empty promises because the focus groups have told him people are worried about the planet this week?
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Aug 7, 2022 17:59
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1965917 posted:is this just sounds bites and empty promises yes
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Aug 7, 2022 18:07
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I'm not aware of any opinion he holds to be honest. Except a general sense that he'd be a Tory if they weren't so ridiculous.
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Aug 7, 2022 18:08
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As I recall he was previously quite opposed to the 2019 green policies so I highly doubt he gives a poo poo.
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Aug 7, 2022 18:14
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Corbyn was banging on the same "green jobs in Britain" drum, but it was utterly unbelievable at the time because Labour also committed to the single market, and if offered a choice between the two it'd be pretty clear which one a Labour government would pick. The oddity is that Starmer making the same promise (having disposed of the single market pledge) makes it more believable - but conversely, with Corbyn gone the feared dynamic of the Greens stealing a march on a non-SDP, non-Die Linke equivalent bloc is no longer applicable either, and hopes/fears that Insulate Britain or suchlike would have popular resonance haven't come true. The problem rather is a typical Labour soft left one of not really having a programme inasmuch as an inherited compromise. During Corbyn's leadership the most important issues indicated, variously, immigration, the NHS, Brexit, or crime. With Brexit in the air as the most shooting-yourself-in-the-foot question re: the economy, this was entirely reasonable... not Brexiting and terminating the uncertainty quickly would be the immediately most helpful economic policy to pursue. But with that in the rear-view mirror, Starmer's Labour still doesn't have a 'the economy" flagship policy. GND is what has been aging on the shelf since 2019, but it was always mainly a sop to internal Labour factioneering - even at its conception, its focus on British (Green) Jobs for British People, in a very Brownite way, was its only concession to mass consumption: but immigration is no longer a top priority. ronya fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Aug 7, 2022 |
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Aug 7, 2022 18:42
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I tried to read your post but all I got was "mmmmmm Corbyn was bad as all the rest mmmmmm" sorry
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Aug 7, 2022 18:46
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1965917 posted:Keith put out some article in the guardian promising a green new deal (neo lib sytle) thats good for business and blah blah blah He knows the greens taking votes away from Labour is a serious concern. He could enter an agreement with them like they have asked many times and they wouldn't run in close seats but lol he won't do that.
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Aug 7, 2022 18:58
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recall Corbyn's own pitch from 2018 was "Build it in Britain"; the GND phrasing got tacked on later when AOC's splash resonated all across Europe
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Aug 7, 2022 18:59
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ronya posted:GND is what has been aging on the shelf since 2019, but it was always mainly a sop to internal Labour factioneering - even at its conception, its focus on British (Green) Jobs for British People, in a very Brownite way, was its only concession to mass consumption: but immigration is no longer a top priority. 
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Aug 7, 2022 19:04
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Guavanaut posted:Caught woking in a Pizza Express  something something gammon something Wokingham
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Aug 7, 2022 19:06
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Guavanaut posted:A red-green-Brown alliance ...
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Aug 7, 2022 19:09
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ronya posted:The oddity is that Starmer making the same promise (having disposed of the single market pledge) makes it more believable I suppose that's true if you look at the dry analytic angle of "how it can be done" and how it conflicts with other policies, but only if you also ignore starmer's actual record of keeping any policies he commits to that are to the left of the Tories in any way. Alternatively he could stick to it (which isn't very starmer-y) but do it in the worst possible way so nobody is happy and everyone hates him and it (VERY starmer-y)
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Aug 7, 2022 19:38
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I don't really disagree there: "worst possible way, nobody is happy, and everyone hates you" is the soft left conundrum in a nutshell, here starting with choosing to cut the knot by disposing of single market aspirations in their entirety. That's a very unhappy Starmerite demo right off the bat, at risk of the obvious. Still, I've said before that credibility is gained by demarcating which one of your otherwise natural supporters you're going to set on fire - I've said as much even back when Corbyn was leader - and that's still true here.
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Aug 7, 2022 19:46
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"soft" """left""" He's a Tory. Any analysis you have that doesn't accept that is uselessly out of sync with reality
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Aug 7, 2022 19:49
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1965917 posted:a green new deal (neo lib sytle) thats good for business I find business resistance to ecological policies incredibly frustrating: not only are ecological policies good for business at a cynical “value creation” level, but they’re good for business because they ensure the continuing existence of a customer base who aren’t drowning or burning to death
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Aug 7, 2022 20:00
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Yes but they might impact the amount of money we make next year and that is unacceptable.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:02
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Dabir posted:"soft" """left""" Yeah this. Nothing Starmer has ever done has shown him to be anything other than on the cameron side of the tories.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:06
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Yeah, there's no fundamental incentive in capitalism that requires you to keep a business profitable beyond the end of your life (or even the end of your earning years) if you don't want to. It's exceptionally short-termist.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:08
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I liked Lyon in France, nice river and hills, cool Roman ruins, France's second biggest art museum after the Louvre
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Aug 7, 2022 20:08
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Miftan posted:Yeah this. Nothing Starmer has ever done has shown him to be anything other than on the cameron side of the tories. I'd dispute this - Cameron was more concretely useful on LGBT rights.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:09
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I was evicted last week, and, god love them the council put a roof over my head (temporarily). Shame it's a halfway house in Clacton. I hope I never see or hear a seagull ever again, they rule this town.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:25
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A slow and painful death to your former landlord and better circumstances to you as soon as possible.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:35
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Remember the hardship fund exists. All the best to you Trickjaw, you’re a good’en
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Aug 7, 2022 20:41
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Trickjaw posted:I was evicted last week, and, god love them the council put a roof over my head (temporarily). Shame it's a halfway house in Clacton. I hope I never see or hear a seagull ever again, they rule this town. 2022 has been the year I became a seagull hater. One came into my house, shat on the floor and couch and then spent probably 5 minutes flying into the living room window trying to get out because going out the way you came in is apparently beyond these dinosaur brained clowns. Not to mention the number of times I've been attacked this year, they've never been this aggressive around here before. Sorry you got evicted, gently caress landlords
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Aug 7, 2022 20:43
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One of them bit the ice cream out of my mouth this year so I started yelling obscenities at them in the middle of whitby, before remembering there were lots of children about. Vile bastards they are, tories of the air.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:45
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I don't know who said it earlier, but Truss's picture was on BBC news all morning, and what a surprise there's a slightly different picture of her this evening. Clear bias.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:48
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OwlFancier posted:One of them bit the ice cream out of my mouth this year so I started yelling obscenities at them in the middle of whitby, before remembering there were lots of children about. God, flying Tories *shiver*
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Aug 7, 2022 20:51
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OwlFancier posted:One of them bit the ice cream out of my mouth this year so I started yelling obscenities at them in the middle of whitby, before remembering there were lots of children about. Yeah landlords are awful
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Aug 7, 2022 20:56
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Dabir posted:"soft" """left""" When Starmers politics have been backed by the majority of Labour for most of my life time, I think its time to just call him labour.
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Aug 7, 2022 21:04
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A seagull swooped down over my shoulder and snatched my half-eaten Gregg's baguette out of my very mouth near the watery bit in Bristol. I shook my fist and shouted "You fascist bastard" at it to the amusement of various passers by.
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Aug 7, 2022 21:37
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I saw a seagull hover perfectly in midair a few feet away from me a couple weeks ago, it was doing the hunt-and-seek with its little head while perfectly positioning into the wind to stay aloft. That's a better flying feedback system than Elon Musk ever will ever be able to pay someone to create and all it took were two other seagulls.
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Aug 7, 2022 21:40
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Two other seagulls and a lot of stolen chips.
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Aug 7, 2022 22:20
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Oh yay, another centre right party! https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1556268565703032833
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Aug 7, 2022 22:29
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OwlFancier posted:Yes but they might impact the amount of money we make next year and that is unacceptable. I know this is accepted capitalist dogma, but it’s fundamentally dumb: don’t people have any vision to imagine other generations? Even if you’re not genetically related to your antecessors, the future of life as we know it, Jim should be front and centre for any corporation. Fake edit: I may actually be having a meltdown, it’s been a long time coming
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Aug 7, 2022 22:42
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So Grant Shapps has said that the London Underground needs to move towards 'driverless trains' in order to modernise like 'other European cities', which reminds me of my favourite seagull story. I've heard it from anarchists about a couple of places with new automatic trains, so it may be an urban legend or it may be a tall tale or it may be a thing that multiple people have actually done independently, but anyhow there's a light rail that has gone all automatic doors, no guards, busy business district. Storyteller catches eye of an older fellow in a suit sat eating a bag of chips at the end of the platform. Every now and again he throws out a chip for the seagulls. But never enough, only one every few minutes. The rest he's holding tight against him. The gulls are scrapping over the chips. They're not happy. Storyteller is transfixed because it seems so odd, either feed them or don't. Train eventually arrives, doors open, folks get off and on, old man is checking his watch. He stands up, wellies the chips through the doors, half a dozen enraged seagulls follow. Doors close.
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Aug 7, 2022 22:45
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Anyone who’s ever been to the London Transport Museum multiple times (because if you live here you can use that ticket for a whole year) knows that driving a tube is actually properly hard And that’s not including the fact that it’s not in an air conditioned museum surrounded by your family saying “go on, you can do it!”, you’re on you’re own, in the dark, having a lovely job that wankers claim is overpaid but none of them would actually do it Sorry, I feel very strongly about tube drivers being treated like an overpaid underclass, when actually they are an essential service
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Aug 7, 2022 23:28
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i was on a tube once where the driver missed half the platform
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Aug 7, 2022 23:43
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wuruwugh kuhth brutush patruhohtic pawtuh green duhl wurgh rumumbur yooou're a woombuuuuuulllll and rumumbur our brave patruhohtic troops wuruaghgahrgrgrhgrjk;l;klgf
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Aug 8, 2022 00:01
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fuctifino posted:Oh yay, another centre right party! Isn't he the guy out of Giant Days
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Aug 8, 2022 00:04
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Scientastic posted:Anyone who’s ever been to the London Transport Museum multiple times (because if you live here you can use that ticket for a whole year) wait what
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