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It's the mount and blade warband whf mod and he is trying to kite an entire orc army on foot with a handgun
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Aug 8, 2022 17:41
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More like Leg End cause he just kites his units around the map until the AI breaks.
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Aug 8, 2022 17:41
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I feel like vassals in 3K don't get as lobotomized as they do in Warhammer, hopefully if that is actually true and not just "feelings" (a big problem in TW discourse) then it's something they take a look at. They mentioned Warriors vassals being good at taking razed territory but it was kind of a dodge to the actual question of "Are vassals better" If I had to guess, it would be because in 3K it's actually not unreasonable for the player to go vassal for awhile or just be one based on start date so they didnt hinder the AI as much. Could be dead wrong of course
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Aug 8, 2022 17:46
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Double Bill posted:Just watch someone else, there are plenty of alternatives who are actually likeable and entertaining, like https://www.youtube.com/c/milkandcookiesTW and https://www.youtube.com/c/ZerkovichGames for sure, Youtube just randomly recommended his stream and it seemed interesting cause of the Nagash mod. Never watched Legend before but I now know to avoid him cause hes terrible to watch Might try out that mod tho, once my Taurox run is over. Could help tide me over till IE drops
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Aug 8, 2022 17:46
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The Chad Jihad posted:I feel like vassals in 3K don't get as lobotomized as they do in Warhammer, hopefully if that is actually true and not just "feelings" (a big problem in TW discourse) then it's something they take a look at. They mentioned Warriors vassals being good at taking razed territory but it was kind of a dodge to the actual question of "Are vassals better"
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Aug 8, 2022 17:59
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Doomykins posted:I for one love all this Mannfred lore and like Mannfred more for it. Walking disasters are highly entertaining. Part of the reason I wanted to emphasize the real change is that before End Times, Mannfred is just a guy with his home base in Sylvania. Storm of Chaos in 2004-2005 (in the middle of sixth edition) was the first big new present-tense story event since the creation of the armybooks. The story is about the Empire fighting off an epic invasion from Chaos led by Archaon with the help of Sigmarite Jesus, and pretty much all of the factions show up to help or steal a chunk of the Empire. In that, Mannfred is just one of a bunch of opportunists, and he's barely involved in the story. Storm of Chaos ends in a kinda hilarious way. GW ran a bunch of events and promised to use the results to determine the canon ending of who wins the war between the Empire and Chaos. Unfortunately, one of the Chaos armies at the time was hilariously OP, so everyone just figured Chaos was a shoo-in (and variously that GW might be doing this intentionally, to rig it). What ended up happening is that a large enough bloc of players communicating online ended up rigging it for Greenskins instead, which is why the canonical ending is that Grimgor interrupts the final fight between Archaon and Sigmarite Jesus, headbutts Archaon, bonks him on the head until he's down, and fucks off. Mannfred's contribution is that after Chaos retreats, he points out that he's still invading, demands that Karl Franz surrender, Volkmar says no, so Mannfred... just goes home. Seriously, read this poo poo. Even this wasn't really remarkable. The bad guys always have to lose in the present, to explain why the good guys are still alive and not the pitifully wailing slaves of their cruel overseers. (Also, fair warning, this part is my fuzzy recollection of what went down nearly 20 years ago, so I might have some of the details on the voting and drama mixed up a bit.) GW ends up retconning a lot of Storm of Chaos's unsatisfying, nonsensical ending out over the next two editions. It wasn't hard, since the Storm of Chaos book wasn't in print any more but the buildup to a final war was still there. (TWW2 itself hooks into a lot of these same story hooks, but turns it into a fake Skaven plot.) Plus, Storm of Chaos was Gav Thorpe's baby, and Gav Thorpe ends up leaving Games Workshop to focus on his fiction in 2008. Some of the Storm of Chaos plot points ended up being incorporated into the main narrative, like Grimgor headbutting Archaon and figuring that was good enough, albeit in his own confrontation rather than a suckerpunch in the middle of the Empire. Eighth edition takes the preamble to a big war of all against all, adds a bunch more build-up (chiefly incorporating the recently-retconned origin story / imminent resurrection of Nagash), then leads into End Times, pretty much ignoring the main events of Storm of Chaos like they never happened. Basically from the start of eighth edition, Mannfred is a different character with the same name as the bland forgettable dude from before. His plan starts off with deciding he's going to resurrect Nagash but this time as his servant (which, in a new retcon, is something the entire family has been secretly working on for millennia), and to do so he kidnaps a bunch of sacrifice victims and steals a bunch of stuff, annoying every single faction in Warhammer at once. This is its own whole story. He forms a partnership/rivalry with Arkhan the Black, he teaches Balthasar Gelt necromancy, he makes an enemy of the nameless immortal vampire spirit that was possessing literally every Necrarch main character and also a frequent Nagash impersonator to patch up some other retcons, etc. Resurrecting Nagash obviously does not go as planned. One of the main reasons is because his sacrifices are all supposed to be of pure heart, but one of them is the product of adultery between Tyrion and Alarielle. This is kind of a hosed up recurring theme in End Times, as Archaon gets a new retcon backstory where he's born of rape and at one point pretends to be his master's bastard son to trick his widow, and these are clearly meant to be framed as the beginnings of his road to becoming the Sigmarite antichrist. Honestly, End Times is full of this stuff, and it would suck rear end even if it wasn't blowing up the Warhammer Fantasy setting. It just wasn't good. Anyway Mannfred's separate plan to enslave Nagash as part of his resurrection fails, then he ends up one of Nagash's nine lieutenants (much to his annoyance), gets ransomed off to the High Elves to sue for peace between them and Nagash, swears his allegiance to Chaos to escape, immediately rejoins Nagash's side, then gets nearly killed by a Chaos army led by Isabella von Carstein, who as I mentioned has been resurrected as Nurgle's general in his (ultimately unsuccessful) bid to destroy Nagash to seize control of undeath. In the final confrontation between Archaon and everyone else who knew what was going on, Mannfred blunders in, murders Balthasar Gelt, disrupts the ritual to save the entire world, and gets killed once again, right before everyone and everything else. The big difference with End Times, besides building up to just straight up cancelling Warhammer Fantasy Battles, was that it was narrative-heavy and coordinated with the people writing the novels. The actual End Times books were a series of five rulebooks, each of which covered a chapter of the main End Times story like a comic book crossover. It's one of the few times when Warhammer had a centrally-led "canon" story with all of the factions participating at the same time, which would've been interesting if the story wasn't so loving bad and didn't end with blowing up the world. WHFB was ultimately a doomed game for a lot of reasons, but it's fascinating how GW pulled off this event to revive interest in Warhammer Fantasy then used it to cancel the game rules almost entirely and discontinue the majority of the miniature line. It's just a really staggering accomplishment, incompetent from top to bottom. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 18:07
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Vassals were definitely better in 3K. The one thing that got me about it was the AI getting seemingly randomly getting assigned an attitude about being a vassal but otherwise it was fine. Ahh, yeah that was odd since it didnt seem to sync up with the personal traits at all, it was just a random chance on vassal creation so if you wanted to power game you would re-roll until you got "Honorable" and "Warrior" or whatever they were
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Aug 8, 2022 18:14
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The Chad Jihad posted:Ahh, yeah that was odd since it didnt seem to sync up with the personal traits at all, it was just a random chance on vassal creation so if you wanted to power game you would re-roll until you got "Honorable" and "Warrior" or whatever they were AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 18:27
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I want the EU4 diplomacy ported over verbatim. Me: takes a single minor settlement Game: every other faction enters a coalition against me. I don't know whether to  or  . I feel funny
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Aug 8, 2022 18:30
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SirPhoebos posted:Me: takes a single minor settlement
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Aug 8, 2022 18:31
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ScootsMcSkirt posted:for sure, Youtube just randomly recommended his stream and it seemed interesting cause of the Nagash mod. Never watched Legend before but I now know to avoid him cause hes terrible to watch Legend is an interesting guy if you want to see how the system can be abused and how to minmax your way out of absurdly hopeless campaigns and battles, with the AI given the maximum amount of cheats on top of it all. He's good at what he does but what he does is incredibly focused, downright pedantic. I watched for a bit and still do occasionally but watching his full streams is a really specific sort of background noise. It's interesting to consider "how do you pull off an Arkhan the Black start on ME Legendary?" but watching Legend sack the neighboring starter city 20+ times manually is what some might call the definition of insanity. You need a Turin or a Zerkovich if you want a hype man to show you things and just appreciate a good old fashioned crushing melee flank charge or something. Cease to Hope posted:Mannfred  Thanks for your effort here, good stuff.
Doomykins fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 18:34
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:lmao please god no, I just want the diplomacy options, not the AE!! Aaaaaaiiiieeeeeee. To be fair, the theory behind AE and Coalitions is that it's supposed to model a number of wars during the time period that basically came down to "the neighbors of an ascending power realize it's getting too huge and needs to be stopped now." Basically the Holy League against the Ottomans, the Great Northern War against Sweden, and of course the many Coalition Wars against Napoleon. The problem is with implementation. For example there is no scaling to this mechanic, which leads to things like an OPM (one province minor) invoking the wrath of the entire continent as a consequence of gaining one additional province. SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 18:45
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When anyone mentions Sylvania I think these guys should be units https://www.sylvanianfamilies.com/en-uk/
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Aug 8, 2022 19:01
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I'll always love Mannfred with all of my heart because he very consistently manages to hit that wonderful sweet spot between "brilliant conniving schemer" and "trips over his own dick and fucks everything up catastrophically". It's basically the same reason why Thanquol rules - that perfect mix of someone who is by most standards actually smart and powerful but thinks they're way smarter and more powerful than they actually are and huffs their own farts so hard that they gently caress over not only themselves but everyone around them.
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Aug 8, 2022 20:02
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Yeah, Legend is a very specific type of nerd. I wouldn't ever play the game the way he does, but that is his entire thing. I can't watch it, so I don't. Meanwhile, no blood/Valkia DLC reveal on Khorne day. 
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Aug 8, 2022 20:05
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I will never accept boring baldfred. The real Mannfred to me will always be a guy with a dracula style widow's peak and who once kidnapped Karl Franz's cousin so that he could turn her into his vampire bride like something out of a Hammer flick. Coincidentally Franz's cousin was named Isabelle which is only one letter off from Isabella so even when he was at his coolest he was still just a not as cool version of Vlad. I'm glad Morgan Bernhardt kicked his rear end.
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Aug 8, 2022 20:12
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Newfred looks like a pearl balanced on top of a clamshell
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Aug 8, 2022 20:15
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Was thinking of an anti-cheese tweak for ranged and because I'm code illiterate the only way I can express it is: If a non-single entity's ranged attack misses >90% of shots made on a target three time in a row, make no further ranged attacks against that target for 2 minutes.
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Aug 8, 2022 20:31
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Kanos posted:I'll always love Mannfred with all of my heart because he very consistently manages to hit that wonderful sweet spot between "brilliant conniving schemer" and "trips over his own dick and fucks everything up catastrophically". Mannfred's cowardice is also legitimately neat because you don't often get cowards who are still constantly going out, getting up to poo poo, and then panicking and getting cold feet and trying to make everything too perfect and oh no it's all on fire in Warhammer much outside of the Skaven.
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Aug 8, 2022 20:42
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Cease to Hope posted:There are literally hundreds of lousy licensed Warhammer novels and I haven't read them all and don't really plan to. Likewise, I don't pay much mind to summaries of their plots from fan wikis or "lore" youtubers, which place a lot of importance on fake historical chronological order and very little value on order of importance. If you're saying that in the novel that created an origin story for the Sword of Smiting, it turns out that Mannfred was actually the magical love-child of Tyrion and Grimgor, I'll take your word for it, because I don't care. I'm relating mainly how Warhammer Fantasy Battles laid out the Vampire Counts faction and history and rules, before the lead-up to Nagash's final resurrection and End Times. I, uh...Sorry but what the gently caress are you even talking about? The novels didn't work that way (Gav Thorpe's occasional bout of insanity aside.), this isn't a wiki summary, and it's literally info direct from the books directly tied to the actual army book lines and primary lore by going in depth into showing the faction's actual early history like you say you are interested in.  quote:I don't, honestly. Warhammer in general has always kinda suffered from mechanic creep. A new faction will get a special mechanic reflecting their unique bravery, cleverness, toughness, etc. But then authors will look at the next faction, and say, "Hey, these guys are brave too," then give them that rule plus a new rule reflecting their particular toughness. Then the next faction is brave and tough but also scary, so they get three special rules. If you want an example right here, look at Taurox's gimmick where he razes a settlement and resets his movement, and Skarbrand's gimmick where he razes a settlement, resets his movement, and gets a free army. Saying you don't want a deep diplomacy system that has people plotting and intriguing against each other due to mechanic creep and then saying you'd like the core diplomacy to be more interesting is certainly a thing. Not sure how to respond to that though. Edit: If you want a bad non-canon novel that got almost completely retconned just go look up Ian Watson's contribution to the Black Library books. As far as i'm aware it was the first Warhammer 40K novel which was further complicated by the fact that Ian Watson writes like a coked out slaaneshi sex fiend got access to a printing press with no editor on site to stop him from putting his weird fetishes into the text. At one point there are mutant anime girls (Complete with pumpkin sized heads and massive anime eyes like a 90's anime.) that are stated to be concubines to a planetary governor, there is an entire chapter dedicated to what I can only describe as a grisly carnal scene involving a man dressed as a clown, and a major character literally shits himself to death before the end of the first book in the series. Archonex fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 20:53
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Night10194 posted:Mannfred's cowardice is also legitimately neat because you don't often get cowards who are still constantly going out, getting up to poo poo, and then panicking and getting cold feet and trying to make everything too perfect and oh no it's all on fire in Warhammer much outside of the Skaven. Manny never internalizes that there is only so much you can do to prevent Pope tackles.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:05
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What I like about Mannfred is that he's a "Just as planned!" type who actually has plausible drawbacks for being a master schemer who's always three steps ahead. He doesn't adapt well to unexpected circumstances and he also struggles with the temptation of immortality to not act and wait another decade to try and get a bigger advantage (Neferata's also big on this, having gotten burned the last time she openly ruled and constantly kicks the can of revealing herself further and further down the road). His showdown at Middenheim was where he had every advantage, but then Volkmar did something unexpected by challenging him to single combat. And that battle's even more lopsided than Mannfred's army versus Middenheim—Mannfred might be one of the single deadliest single combatants in all the world and Volkmar's a mortal man coming out of a hard siege, not to mention he got tortured by Archaon and possibly killed. But Vlad actually died against the Grand Theogonist, because he did something unexpected with the tackle off the walls of Altdorf. So rather than take a 99% guaranteed victory, Mannfred instead retreated because it brought it variables he hadn't accounted for and he does not work well on the fly. There are too many Batman-type characters that are really lazily written because it's for an audience of nerds who like to think that being good at homework means they'll be able to intellectually dominate their enemies so long as they have sufficient prep time. But historically, that kind of thinking tends to go like it did in Imperial Japan, where the big picture becomes subjugated to solving smaller problems, or the intricate plan that relied on carefully studying the enemy completely goes to poo poo because these micro-fixations create fragility when the truly unanticipated ("the general got sick so a new guy got pulled in") inevitably happens.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:26
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I think streamers will be able to show IE campaign stuff this week. fine the thread's divided on Legend. He's my favorite TW streamer and I totally understand why someone would bounce off his style. He hit a subscription goal so his first IE campaign will be a This is Total War campaign with Settra in the new desertbowl. Should be a clusterfuck.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:36
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Scott Forstall posted:I think streamers will be able to show IE campaign stuff this week. I am humbly asking you to link us to any rants he may go on. Especially CA should listen to me type rants.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:48
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more like Legend of Total Bore
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Aug 8, 2022 22:05
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Turin's the best in my opinion, he strikes a very careful balance between bieng very competent at the game, very good at explaining why he's doing something and bieng a memelord (in a good way) that no other TW personality does.
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Aug 8, 2022 22:06
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Carcer posted:Turin's the best in my opinion, he strikes a very careful balance between bieng very competent at the game, very good at explaining why he's doing something and bieng a memelord (in a good way) that no other TW personality does. he is the john madden of total war and also other RTSes
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Aug 8, 2022 22:11
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Who's Wayne Gretzky
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Aug 8, 2022 22:12
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Carcer posted:Turin's the best in my opinion, he strikes a very careful balance between bieng very competent at the game, very good at explaining why he's doing something and bieng a memelord (in a good way) that no other TW personality does. Yeah, Turin at the very least cares about being visually entertaining, even if he's not winning. Like, I get that Legend of Total war may be able to consistently pull things out in impossible odds, but the way he does so is not visually appealing. A lord dancing back and forth playing 'dodge the arrow / artillery volleys' for 10 minutes is boring. I want to see the cavalry charges in all its glory and Turin generally delivers on that.
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Aug 8, 2022 22:13
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Tirranek posted:Was thinking of an anti-cheese tweak for ranged and because I'm code illiterate the only way I can express it is: If a non-single entity's ranged attack misses >90% of shots made on a target three time in a row, make no further ranged attacks against that target for 2 minutes. That would either just make it take longer (the type of person who would spend ages baiting out all of the ranged ammo on an enemy unit will not hesitate to do the same and just take longer doing it) or render that unit fundamentally immune to ranged fire for the next two minutes. For sieges I suppose you could just give defenders blanket infinite ammo, but I dont know how you would rework field battles. E: or just dont worry about it and let people optimize the fun out of their games if they want. I've never played dodge the arrow for 10m because I can't be bothered to. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 22:28
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I like Turin and Indypride (milkandcookiestw). They're both kinda meme-y and don't take it too seriously, although they're also both focused on multiplayer. Turin's style is more of a tournament announcer approach, which he's quite good at, while explaining some of the mechanics behind X or Y engagement. Indypride does that, to an extent, too, but he also edits in cinematic shots which really show off units and animations and I appreciate that because I feel like I never get the opportunity to enjoy that stuff when playing. (I'm very bad.) Heir of Carthage and Zerkovich are quite good, as well. Rubber Duck of War isn't bad either but something about his speech patterns makes me feel like he's feigning enthusiasm. That's not a knock against him, it's entirely subjective on my part, he's actually quite good at what he does.
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Aug 8, 2022 22:41
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Ravenfood posted:That would either just make it take longer (the type of person who would spend ages baiting out all of the ranged ammo on an enemy unit will not hesitate to do the same and just take longer doing it) or render that unit fundamentally immune to ranged fire for the next two minutes. Yeah it was more of a thought exercise, really. I've got no problem with Legend or anyone cheesing the game in an unconventional way, it just shouldn't inform balance. When it comes to Legend specifically, I've enjoyed a lot of his earlier discussion/ranking videos, but his WH3 rants have had a lot of presumption in them.
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Aug 8, 2022 22:41
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I don't watch streamers but people buying into their own bullshit will never stop being funny to me
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Aug 8, 2022 22:44
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Carcer posted:Turin's the best in my opinion, he strikes a very careful balance between bieng very competent at the game, very good at explaining why he's doing something and bieng a memelord (in a good way) that no other TW personality does.
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Aug 8, 2022 22:50
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Gonkish posted:I like Turin and Indypride (milkandcookiestw). They're both kinda meme-y and don't take it too seriously, although they're also both focused on multiplayer. Turin's style is more of a tournament announcer approach, which he's quite good at, while explaining some of the mechanics behind X or Y engagement. Indypride does that, to an extent, too, but he also edits in cinematic shots which really show off units and animations and I appreciate that because I feel like I never get the opportunity to enjoy that stuff when playing. (I'm very bad.) I got into the game by watching PartyElites campaign playthroughs. He seems more focused on other RTSs at the moment, but would recommend.
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Aug 8, 2022 23:05
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I am humbly asking you to link us to any rants he may go on. Especially CA should listen to me type rants. his rants around wh3 launch and the months after were just bad content, regardless of how you feel about anything else. he put a spotlight on himself for trolls to swarm and his regular viewers receded. he's mellowed a lot since his worst 'edgelord Legend' days, as he now derisively refers to that time, though he could still stand to ignore the chat more (in my opinion, at least). he seems a lot better at not getting baited into a RoC rant by chat. I like that he loves breaking total war games. Since Rome 1, TW games have always been my most played games and his nonsense play just amuses me for some reason. I do like, watch, and sub to most of the big WH youtubers. As a community, its neat that they all have their unique angles on it. I understand the lore and the game better as a result of legend, sotek, Turin, indypride, zerkovich, okoii, enticity. they all seem to have their style and it works. its been a fun ride so far, feels like we could have another 4-5 years of CA support still ahead and the mod community will live far beyond.
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Aug 8, 2022 23:19
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I'm actually pretty excited for the startpos mods for realm of chaos (whenever assembly kit comes), there's some people I'd really like to start as. Hell, I'd like to see who wins the race organically
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Aug 8, 2022 23:49
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Did CA say if the full set of mod tools is coming with IE? After I go on Alberic's Lustrian Adventure I want to give that Hung mod a run in a campaign once it's updated
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Aug 9, 2022 00:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgxLu_O8ygQ Hope? NO, NO HOPE.
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Aug 9, 2022 00:13
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DaysBefore posted:Did CA say if the full set of mod tools is coming with IE? After I go on Alberic's Lustrian Adventure I want to give that Hung mod a run in a campaign once it's updated I haven't seen anything lately. Their roadmap from a few months ago certainly implied the mod tools would be coming out around now, but I could understand if they changed priorities a bit since then. As it is now, the modders are doing pretty decent work without them so it doesn't feel like it needs to be rushed.
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Aug 9, 2022 01:21
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