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Dr Christmas posted:Fake edit: It’s like it was agitated and was trying to make itself look big to scare off a predator. This is how I read it.
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Aug 7, 2022 23:00
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Yeah, a threat display.
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Aug 7, 2022 23:22
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It resembles a frill, yeah.
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Aug 8, 2022 02:03
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I thought it was interesting we got references to Spielberg’s big three alien movies with the fist bump echoing the fingers touching in ET, the pattern display as a form of communication mirroring Close Encounters, and of course the people harvesting from War of the Worlds.
ruddiger fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 04:10
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Came up before that a lot of Jean Jacket's behaviour and mannerisms as well as its physical form are clearly based on aquatic life; jellyfish, squids and octopuses as well as sharks and rays.
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Aug 8, 2022 06:45
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Just learned about the theory that OJ doesn't survive, which I don't buy at all. In addition to the reasons people have mentioned in the thread why this doesn't scan, I'll offer another reason I haven't seen anyone mention: It would ruin the bit where the horse named Lucky survives despite being offered as bait 
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Aug 8, 2022 07:06
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Has anyone asked Peele about that particular theory? Ideally in front of a camera.
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Aug 8, 2022 07:21
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In the first scene where OJ goes out looking for what ends up being JJ, in the daytime, is he already not looking directly at it? At the time I thought he was just not noticing but then he remarks that he didn't think it was a ship., which was a conclusion I'd reached when it ate the horse statue. It's been some time now and I can't recall the exact scene order. The horse statue at night is after the day time look around but before the "not a ship" speculation?
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Aug 8, 2022 13:09
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The 90s was very 'History is over, we beat the commies and the nazis and there's no more problems anymore, sexism and racism have gone away, so we can point and laugh at anyone!' Been wanting to circle back to this. I think the trend toward arch mockery that gained wider popularity then quickly turned into straight up reactionary hectoring, especially after 911, was A) a response to censorious public figures, like Tipper Gore and Jack Thompson, and B) an over correction to the kind of treacly, play nice, sitcom reality that was heavily pushed in the 80s and early 90s. There was also a tenuous throughline to 60s counterculture thumbing its nose at their repressive parents by being outrageously vulgar (think underground comix); basically, white Americans like myself didn't think bigotry was over- that happened the day Obama was elected- but there was this underlying feeling that being crass and "going there" would assist progress, as if a major problem affecting minority groups is that I'm not sufficiently encouraged by my culture to be loudly unpleasant. That in mind, Gordy's Home, coming out in 1997, was born a relic and would have been dragged from the day the first episode aired. Jupe is deluding himself saying that it would have taken off, sans the incident. Family Matters, the longest running of all the 80s cornball shows, had gone Full Urkel by that point (its final season began airing in 97) and we were pretty much done tolerating its existence; Gordy's Home looked way stupider. Delusion is pretty much Jupe's main coping mechanism though, so no surprise there.
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Aug 8, 2022 14:51
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1997, definitely the most 90s year of the 90s. Also sounds right, guessing Gordy's Home would probably be lucky to last a season or two even if there hadn't been tragedy on the set.
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Aug 8, 2022 14:55
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That gets complicated when you consider the possibility the thread mentioned earlier, that the script was written much earlier - it's a curious phenomenon of the passage of time how the context of the narrative changes if it's located in the present as opposed to ten years ago.
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Aug 8, 2022 15:11
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I dunno, Sabrina and Boy Meets World were both still really popular through the early 2000s and Gordy’s Home seems pretty in line with that style.
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Aug 8, 2022 15:25
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I dunno, Sabrina and Boy Meets World were both still really popular through the early 2000s and Gordy’s Home seems pretty in line with that style. It was definitely corny, but I don’t think Boy Meets World is a great comparison because it didn’t rely on a lowest common denominator style gimmick. Going off the slim bit we got to see, Gordy’s Home was the lowest of the low effort writing aided by there either being an ape on stage or, if there’s no ape currently on stage, the possibility that there may be an ape on stage later if you can deal with temporary apelessness. Then I don't really remember Sabrina super well, but didn’t it have at least something going on under the hood? Some underlying charm and energy provided by the writing, the actors or both? Gordy’s Home looked more like a dead eyed Small Wonder style show, but worse, like they skipped a decade of continuous production and came straight out the gate exhausted, relying entirely on having a chimp and maybe some science/science fiction stuff related to the dad working for NASA.
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Aug 8, 2022 16:07
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My GF loves Sabrina and still watches it and I've seen a few bits of it second hand it's charming; it's not revolutionary TV but it's absolutely no Full House or whatever. The demographic, tween girls(?) Could have done a lot worse, it's not so bad.
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Aug 8, 2022 16:13
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Dr Christmas posted:Just learned about the theory that OJ doesn't survive, which I don't buy at all. At no point in the movie does anybody have any "visions" or dream sequence or drug trips. What people see is what is happening, they just have to interpret it correctly or not based on their biases. So either OJ survives or a reporter just happens to ride up on a black horse while wearing an orange hoodie. It's a dumb theory from people who are eager to have the Horror Movie with a Downer Ending like an Ari Aster flick. Jordan Peele movies have so far tended to end with the heros bloody but victorious*. Also, let's not lie, the final act is way more action movie than horror movie. *This is also why I lean towards the footage from the two hand-cranked cameras surviving. But that's less clear in the narrative.
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Aug 8, 2022 16:18
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Yeah that's exactly my response to the theory, it's not supported or foreshadowed anywhere in the movie. I thought we might end up with ghosts or visions of Keith David but his only "appearance" is clearly very normal, very sane reminiscing.
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Aug 8, 2022 16:28
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I feel like there's more to think through regarding the end sequence having the urgency and stakes of a Jaws where the protagonists have to desperately dispatch a dangerous monster but it's purely to capture an image of this thing instead of destroying it. Obviously the film itself brings attention to this - but it makes OJ's "sacrifice" and the final sequence from Em with the camera all the more interesting. What is OJ sacrificial gesture even for? To potentially make some money for Em and preserve their family's legacy? When Em enacts her final desperate move to get an image of JJ, her destroying it is purely incidental. That's why I think its important that the final image of OJ has to be ambiguous - the film is deeply ambivalent (or even, totally hostile) to winning fame and fortune through spectacle - maybe OJ did survive (I like to think he did), or maybe he achieved a legendary status in a really silly and frivolous gambit just like the cinematographer did.
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Aug 8, 2022 16:39
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Could his potential sacrifice be giving his sister time to escape? And maybe her thinking he’s dead is maybe trying to make it worth something? And him not being dead is good????
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Aug 8, 2022 16:46
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Mike N Eich posted:I feel like there's more to think through regarding the end sequence having the urgency and stakes of a Jaws where the protagonists have to desperately dispatch a dangerous monster but it's purely to capture an image of this thing instead of destroying it. Obviously the film itself brings attention to this - but it makes OJ's "sacrifice" and the final sequence from Em with the camera all the more interesting. What is OJ sacrificial gesture even for? To potentially make some money for Em and preserve their family's legacy? When Em enacts her final desperate move to get an image of JJ, her destroying it is purely incidental. I also doubted Jordan Peele was going to kill a heroic black cowboy offstage, although that's exterior reasoning
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Aug 8, 2022 16:53
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When I thought it was a happy ending where they kill the monster and survive made me think OJ lives. But as I realized it's a fake out and Emerald didn't grow or change, she killed this thing for the shot. With that in mind I could see OJ being dead. He tamed it, he had it, and she screwed up.
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Aug 8, 2022 16:59
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I've been meaning to ask, are these real horses? Because I'd assumed they were and that it added a meta layer, because, you know, they're horse training experts working in a medium that increasingly disregards them in favor of CGI both in the movie and in real life, so the climatic run of Lucky has double meaning? Like, when Lucky takes off and I assume some stunt man has his hoody pulled down, that's a triumph in and out of the movie? No?
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Aug 8, 2022 17:00
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There's a Bobby Lovgren credited as Head Wrangler on imdb, and his notable work is a lot of other horse movies and TV shows, so my guess is yes, real-rear end horses were at least at some points present on set I'm looking forward to hearing stuff from the cast and crew about the filming, tbh
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Aug 8, 2022 17:08
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Gumball Gumption posted:When I thought it was a happy ending where they kill the monster and survive made me think OJ lives. But as I realized it's a fake out and Emerald didn't grow or change, she killed this thing for the shot. With that in mind I could see OJ being dead. He tamed it, he had it, and she screwed up. It's not exactly a happy ending if he survives anyways, they're just going to be getting on the talk show circuit and reliving Jupe's story. they have their shot and now they're caught in the cycle, and with JJ dead there won't be a follow up, they'll just ride that wave for a few years until they end up with some crappy theme park where you can take your picture with a guy in a JJ suit
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Aug 8, 2022 17:27
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I revisited the trailers after hearing talk of stuff from them not being in the movie, and a whole hour of footage from the assembly cut. A major source of cuts involved the Gordy’s Home flashback. Apparently a pedophile was creeping around the set and he shot Gordy. In the final trailer, you can see a quick shot of what I guess you could call a stereotypical creep walking around the studio backlot calmly while people seem to be running in fear from the carnage on the set. I don’t remember Holst saying “It repainted your house.” in the movie. Not really a spoiler if you’ve seen the trailer but I’ll tag it anyway. The shots of a crab living in a dollhouse. Was that in Jupe’s memorabilia room? I thought it might be a miniature version of the sitcom set. I think I saw a crab in one of the monitors around Holst’s work area, but that was in black and white. A scene of Em walking around Hollywood Blvd and taking selfie videos, from the international trailer that I just saw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY9mVchfQnM Anything else I missed?
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Aug 8, 2022 17:30
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Phy posted:There's a Bobby Lovgren credited as Head Wrangler on imdb, and his notable work is a lot of other horse movies and TV shows, so my guess is yes, real-rear end horses were at least at some points present on set
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Aug 8, 2022 17:34
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Dr Christmas posted:I revisited the trailers after hearing talk of stuff from them not being in the movie, and a whole hour of footage from the assembly cut. There's another shot of this guy in the trailer it's a close-up of his glasses as he watches footage presumably from Gordy's home of a chimp in a tux. I think he was supposed to be stalking Mary Jo, who brought a gun to the set that day. Maybe if gordy hadn't flipped there would have been a different spectacle, maybe the noise from the pistol would have set gordy off anyway.
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Aug 8, 2022 17:35
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Gumball Gumption posted:When I thought it was a happy ending where they kill the monster and survive made me think OJ lives. But as I realized it's a fake out and Emerald didn't grow or change, she killed this thing for the shot. With that in mind I could see OJ being dead. He tamed it, he had it, and she screwed up. This kind of flys in the face of why they named it Jean Jacket in the first place. She tamed her horse, imo.
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Aug 8, 2022 20:33
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My exact point about people looking for a downer ending when there isn't one.
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Aug 8, 2022 20:37
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I do think it's a bit spooky the way she looks so enthused about the press arriving.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:06
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I do think it's a bit spooky the way she looks so enthused about the press arriving. She got her Oprah shot, her brother survived, and didn't even have to go anywhere for the press
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Aug 8, 2022 21:37
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OJ and Em's entire motivation is to make money because they're being forced to sell off their legacy and people think them succeeding in the money making operation that they planned for most of the movie is bad?
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Aug 8, 2022 21:50
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I don't think it's "bad" but they are buying in to the spectacle, and the movie's big thesis is about how addiction to spectacle corrupts and defiles us. I hope they sell out early and get out clean so they don't turn into Ricky.
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Aug 8, 2022 22:00
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It’s also implied that their family should be in a better place financially due to being the descendants of the first person ever put to film and their dad being the best drat Hollywood Horse Trainer there is. So you can also look at it as finally getting what they’ve deserved for generations.
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Aug 8, 2022 22:07
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I am also wrestling with the theme of “spectacle bad for you” being in the same movie where two creatives exploit and defeat the spectacle The only way I can do that is to think that OJ wins because he has a deep knowledge of his craft and doesn’t become overconfident; he respects and has been working with horses his whole life and therefore gives the wild animal the respect and caution it demands whereas Jupe did not
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Aug 8, 2022 22:08
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Right, if OJ , or someone with his integrity and professionalism, had been working with Gordy, the rampage never would have happened.
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Aug 8, 2022 22:16
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When Jupe is describing the Gordy incident, he only describes it as a spectacle and never a tragedy. That opening quote sums it up. Nahum 3:6 posted:I will cast abominable filth upon you, make you vile, and make you a spectacle
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Aug 8, 2022 22:17
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JJ is not in itself spectacle, they haven't even really confronted the spectacle by the time the movie ends. JJ was spectacular perhaps, but the terrible part is going to be what happens next. JJ was just an animal, next they're going to have to feel with the press, constant public scrutiny, lawsuits from the family of anyone who was killed by JJ and those financially impacted by the deaths, ufo nutjobs showing up every few days, and becoming known only as the people who killed that alien instead of their rightful legacy of being the most prolific Hollywood horse trainers. Gordy wasn't the spectacle, the spectacle was being the survivor of The Gordy's Home Incident, and becoming obsessed with chasing that fame and attention was what defiled Ricky - it's why we're all calling him Jupe or Jupiter instead of his name. Jack B Nimble posted:Right, if OJ , or someone with his integrity and professionalism, had been working with Gordy, the rampage never would have happened. That's only if people had listened to him. He didn't get fired from the commercial because he didn't know what he was doing, he was fired because the crew didn't listen to him. Maybe that's partly his fault for not speaking up and making sure he was heard and followed, I'm not going to wade into that. Baron von Eevl fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 22:29
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live with fruit posted:OJ and Em's entire motivation is to make money because they're being forced to sell off their legacy and people think them succeeding in the money making operation that they planned for most of the movie is bad? The only thing about that is if we accept the reward amount Em throws out is accurate then they’d be making 100k, minus costs and repairs, possibly split three ways if they share with Angel. That might not be a lot of money for a functioning horse ranch, and in the larger scheme of things a payday doesn’t reverse the downward trajectory their corner of the industry was heading in even before the events of the film. Absolute best case scenario, given the information we’re get in the movie, is that OJ lets Em manage the exploitation of the catastrophe, she does a good job, and they maybe segue that into some kind of other career. It’s a weird kind of victory.
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Aug 8, 2022 22:34
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JJ is absolutely a spectacle. It’s a flying UFO! That’s pretty amazing
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Aug 8, 2022 22:36
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I have to assume the alien symbolizes the concept of spectacle because it’s literally a giant floating eyeball that consumes
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Aug 8, 2022 22:39
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