|
Lord_Magmar posted:Benediction is not a toolkit it is a single tool (and functionally heals for 100% of the targets health, a fight where the goal is to heal the boss would not work with Benediction). You're still punishing the toolkit by preventing an important part of it be unusable.
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 00:47 |
|
|
Benediction should, if targeting a boss weak to it, target the boss' target instead. Just like how Bene automatically targets you if you try to use it on the MT!
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:03
|
|
|
Orcs and Ostriches posted:You're still punishing the toolkit by preventing an important part of it be unusable. Is it really that important, isn't Bene the oh poo poo save the tank because something has gone wrong button. Which you would hypothetically want to hold onto anyway because Fights like these tend to have big nasty adds for tanks to handle. I just don't think it's particularly punishing for WHM to not be able to Benediction a big body of health that is meant to be filled up with heals over a minute or three (which is another reason this style of fight isn't super applicable to ffxiv. They tend to be shorter than other fights.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:04
|
|
|
Orcs and Ostriches posted:You're still punishing the toolkit by preventing an important part of it be unusable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:07
|
|
|
I'm imagining this fight as a scholar trying to spam adlo after using up my aetherflow and watching my fairy do nothing and I hate it. You'd basically just have to bring a WHM (or AST I guess) if the duration of the heal-spam phase were at all significant.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:09
|
|
|
Shinryu EX had a heal mechanic which Gene trivialized IIRC
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:10
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Is it really that important, isn't Bene the oh poo poo save the tank because something has gone wrong button. No, not at all. There's no such thing as an emergency button in this game. It's one of the primary planned cooldowns WHMs have for an encounter. It's typically planned and used to pair up with Holmgang or regular tank buster/mechanic mitigations so as to save a large amount of both healers' other resources. It's used as a solution to a mechanic, and sitting on it in case of emergency is incredibly wasteful. Nessus posted:I'm not sure how this is a punishment, at most it would be some sort of adjustment so that the spell does not win the boss encounter immediately. They can probably monkey something in of course. It's punishment, because they straight up don't let you use a White Mage's full kit. You're handicapped for playing that job. It'd be like not letting Warriors Holmgang on certain fights, because it lets a single tank invuln every buster thus trivializing mechanics. Or not letting Macrocosmos work on Death's Toll, which again trivializes a mechanic. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Aug 9, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:11
|
|
|
What would probably work better is having an NPC who you have to keep alive, rather than just trying to fill up a green jar with health beams.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:11
|
|
|
I would argue that a fight having a "screw this job in particular" mechanic is a bad mechanic regardless of how big a deal it is. It doesn't take much for player superstition to kick in and "WHMs can't use this button to break the mechanic" becomes "don't bring a WHM". They've already been changing job mechanics to have ways to cope with common things like untargetable time (I know monk got some targeted stuff for that, can't recall if it was pre or post-change) or adds (bards getting most of the weight moved off their dots) because in some fights they were being left behind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:12
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:I would argue that a fight having a "screw this job in particular" mechanic is a bad mechanic regardless of how big a deal it is. It doesn't take much for player superstition to kick in and "WHMs can't use this button to break the mechanic" becomes "don't bring a WHM". They've already been changing job mechanics to have ways to cope with common things like untargetable time (I know monk got some targeted stuff for that, can't recall if it was pre or post-change) or adds (bards getting most of the weight moved off their dots) because in some fights they were being left behind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:18
|
|
|
I really don't think people would exclude WHM from a raw HPS firehose fight just because benediction isn't allowed. The mechanic would not work in FFXIV but not because of benediction.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:18
|
|
|
I'd assume they'd just make it one of those extra actions, like the EMP pulse during Omega. Key it to your actual healing stats so that your gear can still matter
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:24
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:I would argue that a fight having a "screw this job in particular" mechanic is a bad mechanic regardless of how big a deal it is. It doesn't take much for player superstition to kick in and "WHMs can't use this button to break the mechanic" becomes "don't bring a WHM". They've already been changing job mechanics to have ways to cope with common things like untargetable time (I know monk got some targeted stuff for that, can't recall if it was pre or post-change) or adds (bards getting most of the weight moved off their dots) because in some fights they were being left behind. This isn't a good argument because even without Benediction WHM would still be very good at healing the target. It would be better equipped to do it than SCH or SGE! A far better argument is that shield healers would be less useful in this situation. But WHM would probably still be the best healer to have healing that enemy, because they have so loving many direct heals.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:25
|
|
|
Orcs and Ostriches posted:No, not at all. There's no such thing as an emergency button in this game. It's one of the primary planned cooldowns WHMs have for an encounter. This is ironic because WHM being the "direct heals" class is also basically the de facto optimal class for a "heal the boss" fight where the goal is to top off the boss' health bar. It's a weird argument to be making. Which, to be clear, the ability of any class to trivialize a mechanic and thus put itself ahead of all other jobs for their role (such as Holmgang on those fights making WAR more desirable than any other tank) is also a massive problem.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:26
|
|
|
Yeah, scholars would be put into the unfun position of having to heal a boss with physick cause they have no other options once they burn all their aetherflow and their fairy can't heal non-party members, and physick is technically better than adlo once the shield is up, but that's non-applicable to this theoretical boss anyways. It would be the one time eating their fairy would be super beneficial though, as well as emergency tactics.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:33
|
|
|
Allarion posted:Yeah, scholars would be put into the unfun position of having to heal a boss with physick cause they have no other options once they burn all their aetherflow and their fairy can't heal non-party members, and physick is technically better than adlo once the shield is up, but that's non-applicable to this theoretical boss anyways. It would be the one time eating their fairy would be super beneficial though, as well as emergency tactics. Yeah and sages might be even worse off. At least scholars could eat the fairy for the extra aetherflow and potency boost, and could use emergency tactics every 15s for an adlo instead of a physick. Even if they changed the fairy so it could heal the target, kardia wouldn't work.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:41
|
|
|
Easiest option I could think of for a "fill the meter" mechanic would be to just have shields also convert into meter Bene could just cap out at equivalent to 2500 potency or whatever It'd be a nightmare to actually convey all these special cases in status tooltips though
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 19:46
|
|
|
Honestly I think someone gave the best idea. Keeping an NPC alive instead of filling a bar would function best with how FFXIV plays anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 20:01
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Honestly I think someone gave the best idea. Keeping an NPC alive instead of filling a bar would function best with how FFXIV plays anyway. Doesn't the game have this already? (The Aery Nidhogg fight requires you to keep Estinien alive).
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 20:08
|
|
|
Genovera posted:Yeah and sages might be even worse off. At least scholars could eat the fairy for the extra aetherflow and potency boost, and could use emergency tactics every 15s for an adlo instead of a physick. Even if they changed the fairy so it could heal the target, kardia wouldn't work. Just make it so Krasis and holos hits them. That's decent regen and stacking healing potency up buffs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 20:49
|
|
|
SirPhoebos posted:Doesn't the game have this already? (The Aery Nidhogg fight requires you to keep Estinien alive).
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 21:01
|
|
|
Healing sprouts in bardam's and ala mihgo is already healer savage content, i don't know why you masochists want enemies to start needing heals too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 21:38
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Honestly I think someone gave the best idea. Keeping an NPC alive instead of filling a bar would function best with how FFXIV plays anyway. They'd have to fix how finicky targeting friendly NPCs for healing can be. For whatever reason it's much harder than swapping focus between party members and enemies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 21:58
|
|
|
They could get around Benediction by having a relatively small healthbar and emptying it when it goes full (which also indicating progress in some way). But every healer solo duty where you have to heal NPCs is a pain in the rear end and I hope they don't do it
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 22:06
|
|
|
At bare minimum, I'd want the NPCs and their health bars to show up in the party list so I can target them from there. Also, make AoE party heals work on them; I think they've done that recently, but I recall CNJ/WHM duties in ARR with multiple friendlies being nightmarish because Medica would just ignore them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 22:06
|
|
|
AOE heals aren't canon, Antivehicular.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 23:00
|
|
|
Well, of course not, not after Kan-E-Senna broke the Medica elemental's spectral kneecaps
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 23:05
|
|
|
SirPhoebos posted:Doesn't the game have this already? (The Aery Nidhogg fight requires you to keep Estinien alive). Nessus posted:Yeah but that encounter's pretty simple and you mostly just need to cast a regen or a shield or two on him and he's fine. This would presumably be more sophisticated Qwertycoatl posted:They could get around Benediction by having a relatively small healthbar and emptying it when it goes full (which also indicating progress in some way). I don't feel like reading all of what was being discussed but does Haurchefant in DSR count for some of this stuff? From what I remember he has like 100k HP and you still have to keep him alive for a bit after the tank LB3 wears off, while also dealing with the knights' mechanics. Bringing something like that into non-Ultimate content seems like it would satisfy what people are thinking of
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 23:12
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:I would argue that a fight having a "screw this job in particular" mechanic is a bad mechanic regardless of how big a deal it is. every fight is already a "screw white mage" fight frankly see also: the immense dread i feel whenever i'm partnered with a whm instead of an ast for p3s
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2022 10:26
|
|
|
a cartoon duck posted:every fight is already a "screw white mage" fight frankly WHM doesn't have the "ignore this mechanic" button AST does but they do have high healing output and you can lb3 if you really need to
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2022 10:39
|
|
|
I cleared P3S a bunch on WHM, Death's Toll is really the only part that sucks (besides dying for whatever reason and losing stored lilies/MP but that's to be expected) and yeah we just LB3'd there every time to make it simple and still had plenty of time to kill before enrage.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2022 10:47
|
|
|
Imo lilybell is an even more powerful "gently caress this mechanic" button than macrocosmos, it just fucks FoF instead of the other thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2022 11:01
|
|
|
I like SCH best for FoF because you can come out of it with the entire party having like three healthbars worth of shields
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2022 11:05
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5vqrKfADW4
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 12:13
|
|
|
Looks like we're doing the Sil'dih Subterrane with Nanamo
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 12:19
|
|
|
We're also fighting everyon's favorite guy, Skull Millione!
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 12:22
|
|
|
Vitamean posted:feel like everyone's expecting the next ex trial to be one of the archfiends but I'd really enjoy it if they threw a curveball and made it something completely different how am I allowed to be this correct it's unreal
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 13:51
|
|
|
Vitamean posted:how am I allowed to be this correct it's unreal Uh, the trial is actually pretty clearly Scarmiglione's second form
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 13:57
|
|
|
Waffleman_ posted:Uh, the trial is actually pretty clearly Scarmiglione's second form Also they're wrong that that isn't a soken remix that's just the pixel remaster version of the song Estinien says in the trailer "if you want to 2nd death I said we give it to him and"
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 14:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 00:47 |
|
|
sorry guys I can't help but always be correct
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 14:02
|
|