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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:the bill's aimed at increasing EV demand so that 5-6 years down the line the used car lot that working people get their cars from has a lot more EVs in it. Is battery longevity gonna be big concern for buying used?
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Aug 10, 2022 15:00
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Avoiding climate change by driving an electric car has the same amount of utility as trying to change the direction of the hurricane you are in by farting. It is an effort, but it doesn't really do all the much and the majority of people are still going to be getting materially affected by stuff to a far greater degree.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:00
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Josef bugman posted:Avoiding climate change by driving an electric car has the same amount of utility of trying to change the direction of the hurricane you are in by farting. It is an effort, but it doesn't really do all the much and the majority of people are still going to be getting materially affected by stuff to a far greater degree. Transportation causes about 30% of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions and about 20 to 25% of global emissions. If that was literally the only thing anyone in the world were doing, then you'd be right. But, reducing the second largest source of CO2 emissions is a pretty reasonable target as part of a comprehensive plan.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:04
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Transportation is a very wide category, I assume it includes air travel and freight?
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Aug 10, 2022 15:06
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Rinkles posted:Is battery longevity gonna be big concern for buying used? Depends on how used it is. Most EV batteries last the equivalent of 200,000 miles before they recommend replacement. That's about 17 years if you are driving the national average. The "official" estimate is 10 - 20 years depending on battery type and driving habits. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Aug 10, 2022 |
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Aug 10, 2022 15:06
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Rinkles posted:Is battery longevity gonna be big concern for buying used? It'll depend on a number of factors I'm sure but anecdotally I had to have a battery replacement done in my Camry Hybrid a few years back and it was painless if somewhat costly. That's for an almost 10 year old hybrid, mind you.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:07
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Robviously posted:It'll depend on a number of factors I'm sure but anecdotally I had to have a battery replacement done in my Camry Hybrid a few years back and it was painless if somewhat costly. That's for an almost 10 year old hybrid, mind you. Mind sharing how much?
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Aug 10, 2022 15:08
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Josef bugman posted:Transportation is a very wide category, I assume it includes air travel and freight? It does. If you exclude all non-land transportation, then it is roughly 20% of CO2 emissions and not 30%. If you want to exclude buses and "Two/Three Wheel Vehicles," then it is about 18.6% of all CO2 emissions in the U.S. for cars/trucks specifically.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:10
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Rinkles posted:Is battery longevity gonna be big concern for buying used? Liquid cooled batteries have shown remarkably little degradation. Air cooled batteries on the other hand go to poo poo real quick. You'd see first gen Nissan Leafs lose half their range in three years in hot regions. I'm not sure if any EV actually uses them anymore because of that.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:11
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Rinkles posted:Is battery longevity gonna be big concern for buying used? Typically no - first gen Leafs tended to have problems with this but most others don't have as much of an issue. Newer batteries tend to also have more real capacity than their advertised capacity, so while real capacity is dropping, the actually accessible amount doesn't. Degradation tends to be progressive rather than catastrophic as well, so you tend to lose range slowly rather than the whole thing just giving out at once. That said, we don't have much information on really old batteries so maybe there's some horrible surprise waiting there, but as it stands there's not much reason to expect that.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:11
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Everyone driving personal cars of any kind is not really compatible with dealing with climate change and the related ecological collapse. The energy and resource inputs to making EVs are still huge. Worse though, is the land use inherent in such a wasteful mode of transport. Dealing with climate change means trying to make the environments around us more robust and able to support civilization, and keeping the same land use/consumption patterns going won't work. There's also questions of sufficient sufficient lithium supply.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:14
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cat botherer posted:Everyone driving personal cars of any kind is not really compatible with dealing with climate change and the related ecological collapse. The energy and resource inputs to making EVs are still huge. Worse though, is the land use inherent in such a wasteful mode of transport. Dealing with climate change means trying to make the environments around us more robust and able to support civilization, and keeping the same land use/consumption patterns going won't work. If we wait to do anything about climate change until we have restructured the entire layout of where people live in the united states and have restructured entirely the infrastructure of cities that have insufficient subway systems to operate without a car we're going to be twiddling our thumbs for a long time. You cannot believe climate change is a crisis, and also "eh we shouldn't do that, let's wait and do something else instead" - especially when that thing is one of the many things in the bill, not the only thing.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:17
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Josef bugman posted:Avoiding climate change by driving an electric car has the same amount of utility as trying to change the direction of the hurricane you are in by farting. It is an effort, but it doesn't really do all the much and the majority of people are still going to be getting materially affected by stuff to a far greater degree. But also I think people who poo poo on individual actions are undermining the value of individuals modeling for others. It is genuinely hard for people to change habits, and things that can help impact climate change can seem like a big risk like changes to diet, how you get electricity, how you travel or involve what can seem like a huge time investment like composting. When there are people who are modeling those lifestyles, they're creating a reference point for others to follow and it can seem more approachable.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:20
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lawyertalk: pleading the fifth is not an admission of guilt, and there are often many good reasons to plead the fifth even if you are completely innocent realtalk: lol at the public believing that https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1557371559421042688?s=20&t=bh2mz3OP8aPwsaSWXP9iUA
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Aug 10, 2022 15:24
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Josef bugman posted:Avoiding climate change by driving an electric car has the same amount of utility as trying to change the direction of the hurricane you are in by farting. It is an effort, but it doesn't really do all the much and the majority of people are still going to be getting materially affected by stuff to a far greater degree. On an individual level, yes, but the bill is aimed at encouraging broad adoption of electric vehicles which should have a large aggregate impact on ~20% of emissions in the US over time.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:24
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evilweasel posted:If we wait to do anything about climate change until we have restructured the entire layout of where people live in the united states and have restructured entirely the infrastructure of cities that have insufficient subway systems to operate without a car we're going to be twiddling our thumbs for a long time. You cannot believe climate change is a crisis, and also "eh we shouldn't do that, let's wait and do something else instead" - especially when that thing is one of the many things in the bill, not the only thing. I think the argument is not that "let's wait and do something else instead". It's that drastic action is needed now, and half-assed measures that do next to nothing towards changing the trajectory of climate change are pointless. A point was made a few posts up that rebates now are intended to get the ball rolling so EVs trickled down into the used and affordable market. That is an extremely long term plan for a crisis that needs to be addressed now. Year on year we are blowing past milestones that scientists estimated were decades in the future. A few grand rebate on some of the most expensive non-luxury non-sports cars on the market is not making progress on climate change.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:25
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evilweasel posted:lawyertalk: pleading the fifth is not an admission of guilt, and there are often many good reasons to plead the fifth even if you are completely innocent What are these, out of interest?
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Aug 10, 2022 15:26
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evilweasel posted:lawyertalk: pleading the fifth is not an admission of guilt, and there are often many good reasons to plead the fifth even if you are completely innocent
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Aug 10, 2022 15:26
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:If you exclude all non-land transportation, then it is roughly 20% of CO2 emissions and not 30%. If you want to exclude buses and "Two/Three Wheel Vehicles," then it is about 18.6% of all CO2 emissions in the U.S. for cars/trucks specifically. So, less than 20% is what you are saying? I can understand the value that making individual changes can imbue to people. But effective climate action goes so far beyond "buy green" as to seem faintly ridiculous up until the point that poo poo gets even worse than it is now. Like we cannot consume our way to less environmental impact. It isn't really possible. Essentially what Tuxedo Gin said.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:26
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Beaten a little bit here but:Josef bugman posted:Transportation is a very wide category, I assume it includes air travel and freight? Josef bugman posted:Avoiding climate change by driving an electric car has the same amount of utility as trying to change the direction of the hurricane you are in by farting. It is an effort, but it doesn't really do all the much and the majority of people are still going to be getting materially affected by stuff to a far greater degree. That and you still have to have lithium for the batteries as well as actually generating the electricity for the cars in the first place. I think that serious talk about and widespread, aggressive investment in nuclear would be a much bigger step in the right direction than this. I mean, I'll take it but, like you, I doubt its overall effectiveness.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:27
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Tuxedo Gin posted:I think the argument is not that "let's wait and do something else instead". It's that drastic action is needed now, and half-assed measures that do next to nothing towards changing the trajectory of climate change are pointless. A point was made a few posts up that rebates now are intended to get the ball rolling so EVs trickled down into the used and affordable market. That is an extremely long term plan for a crisis that needs to be addressed now. Year on year we are blowing past milestones that scientists estimated were decades in the future. A few grand rebate on some of the most expensive non-luxury non-sports cars on the market is not making progress on climate change. here's the problem with you and everyone else making that argument: the data does not support your claims that this does "next to nothing towards changing the trajectory of climate change" in fact, the data shows the bill to have a substantial - though not sufficient - effect on changing the trajectory of climate change it is also, of course, massively troubling you are making claims on the bill while seeming unaware that the bill includes more than "a few grand rebate on some of the most expensive non-luxury non-sports cars on the market"
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Aug 10, 2022 15:28
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Rinkles posted:Mind sharing how much? At the time, it was somewhere around $3500 I think. Don't have the receipt in front of me but I very much saved that and then some in gas prices for the 250k+ miles I had put on it at the time(2018), so I didn't mind looking at it as a longer term investment. I ended up driving it until 2020 without a hitch.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:31
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Tuxedo Gin posted:I think the argument is not that "let's wait and do something else instead". It's that drastic action is needed now, and half-assed measures that do next to nothing towards changing the trajectory of climate change are pointless. A point was made a few posts up that rebates now are intended to get the ball rolling so EVs trickled down into the used and affordable market. That is an extremely long term plan for a crisis that needs to be addressed now. Year on year we are blowing past milestones that scientists estimated were decades in the future. A few grand rebate on some of the most expensive non-luxury non-sports cars on the market is not making progress on climate change. $20,000 is the out-the-door price of a used mid-size SUV. $20,000 is the vast, vast majority of cars purchased within the last 5 years that you see on the road daily. Making most new car buys into EVs and then switching power generation to renewable sources is an actual obtainable goal over the next decade. "Restructuring the entire United States" is not. If anyone thinks the latter is the only real option, I don't see the point in wasting what time you have left on the dying earth earth posting on the internet.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:32
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A hard drive towards EVs does have the very real effect of blowing yet another hole in the pitch for fossil fuel investment. We've already seen that investors aren't as willing to back new extraction and refining capacity because renewables have exploded recently and fuel use is expected to decline, and mass adoption of EVs being on the horizon (along with large credits/grants for even more rapid renewable power deployment) will only add to that.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:33
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evilweasel posted:
That makes me smart 
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Aug 10, 2022 15:39
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Gort posted:What are these, out of interest? You don't want to provide any information to the prosecutor that could be used against you. Even if you are innocent of the crime, you could give details providing evidence of other criminal conduct or you could provide information that contradicts something you said previously to make it seem like you are lying. It is very rarely a good idea for the defendant to testify on their own behalf. Ideally, you'd want your voice spoken through a defense attorney for reasons of both knowledge/professionalism and psychological. The psychological aspect is that juries are much more likely to think a defendant denying charges or laying out reasoning is lying or "making excuses" to save themselves. But, a third party presenting the information makes people less skeptical of claims on average. This presentation comes from Regent Law School, but despite that, it is an extremely entertaining and thorough explanation for why every attorney in the world will tell you that you should never talk to the police or testify when you are the defendant unless you absolutely have to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Aug 10, 2022 |
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Aug 10, 2022 15:48
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evilweasel posted:lawyertalk: pleading the fifth is not an admission of guilt, and there are often many good reasons to plead the fifth even if you are completely innocent Gort posted:What are these, out of interest? IANAL, but one good reason is if your truthful answer conflicts with genuinely believed but incorrect information, you look like a liar. "Alice said she saw Bob at the pier, but Bob said he wasn't there. He must have done the bad thing if he's going to lie about that!"
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Aug 10, 2022 15:48
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Also, keep in mind the IRA is a partner bill with the BIF which ALSO increased investments in green and renewable energy.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:49
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Gort posted:What are these, out of interest? if prosecutors are motivated and have targeted you, then saying things without really understanding the issues involved runs the risk of you saying something that sounds like (but is not) either a lie or an admission of something. the assumption is someone who committed a crime will deny it; so will someone who didn't do it; denying it does nothing to help you. if you have knowledge that can help prove you didn't do it, your lawyer can help use your knowledge to find the independent objective evidence that can prove your innocence. and the police may be motivated to find a crime you committed because they think you're a bad person, so you may wind up incriminating yourself in a crime nobody would ever charge you with in other circumstances. when your statements are recorded they can be taken out of context and used against you - which is why emails/texts are such trouble in litigation, because people don't say things very carefully to make sure things can't be misinterpreted. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:This presentation comes from Regent Law School, but despite that, it is an extremely entertaining and thorough explanation for why every attorney in the world will tell you that you should never talk to the police or testify when you are the defendant unless you absolutely have to. I was on a jury once, and the single most damaging evidence against the defendant was his own testimony (I thought he was guilty as sin well before he testified, but what convinced the holdouts was his own testimony rather than the victim or any of the other evidence). Had he not testified he'd have potentially gotten a hung jury. evilweasel fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Aug 10, 2022 |
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Aug 10, 2022 15:53
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also on the lawyertalk on the 5th amendment: it is so well understood that the public will instinctively understand pleading the 5th to be an admission of guilt that you're almost never allowed to tell the jury the defendant took the 5th, and every jury is explicitly told there is no requirement for a defendant to testify and you can't hold it against them so yeah, trump pleading the 5th: not a good day for him or for republicans
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Aug 10, 2022 16:03
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Also, "not talking" to cops EVER (at least without a lawyer) is smart because, by and large, the police are not there to extract the truth or even to form a truthful narrative. They are there to gain a conviction, clear cases and collect evidence on those lines. They're not your friends, they're not on your side and they don't give a gently caress all in the world if you did or didn't do something illegal. They can and will lie to you about evidence or anything else really and will set traps for you designed to make you gently caress yourself, as others have pointed out. I don't blame anyone for not willingly talking to cops or the FBI, even if it's Trump. I don't and I won't.
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Aug 10, 2022 16:10
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evilweasel posted:also on the lawyertalk on the 5th amendment: it is so well understood that the public will instinctively understand pleading the 5th to be an admission of guilt that you're almost never allowed to tell the jury the defendant took the 5th, and every jury is explicitly told there is no requirement for a defendant to testify and you can't hold it against them You say guilt - aren't we talking about a civil trial right now? I thought pleading the 5th in civil trials allows for an adverse inference?
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Aug 10, 2022 16:14
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Failed Imagineer posted:That makes me smart https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMyh7ko9L2g
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Aug 10, 2022 16:16
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Devor posted:You say guilt - aren't we talking about a civil trial right now? I thought pleading the 5th in civil trials allows for an adverse inference? it does, but I mostly care that trump pleading the 5th will be widely understood by the public to be an admission he's a criminal and the political implications of that as a reminder: in a civil case you can't plead the 5th just because it's bad for your lawsuit. you must be worried about criminal exposure
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Aug 10, 2022 16:21
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evilweasel posted:it does, but I mostly care that trump pleading the 5th will be widely understood by the public to be an admission he's a criminal and the political implications of that Nah. It'll be much the same as it is now. 45% of the country or whatever will be like "good. I wouldn't talk to those Deep State commies either something something Hunter Biden and Hillary and Soros". The rest of the country will continue to see it for what it is and know Trumps is and was a criminal but the needle won't move I don't think. I'm sitting here laughing about it because this is the first instance I can actually recall of Donald Trump actually keeping his big stupid mouth shut for a change.
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Aug 10, 2022 16:28
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evilweasel posted:it does, but I mostly care that trump pleading the 5th will be widely understood by the public to be an admission he's a criminal and the political implications of that he probably shouldn't have been one of the people claiming pleading the fifth was an admission of guilt then, huh.
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Aug 10, 2022 16:31
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I think we crossed the event horizon where hypocrisy matters like 10+ years ago. It doesn’t matter, it’s just a way to pep rally your own team, but doesn’t fundamentally change or affect rhetoric or political leanings. People know everything about our country and history have hypocrisy baked in so we can ignore our own any time we want, while observing it in others. Has all the actual political salience of adding gold fringe to a flag and saying it means something significant.
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Aug 10, 2022 16:34
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm sitting here laughing about it because this is the first instance I can actually recall of Donald Trump actually keeping his big stupid mouth shut for a change. There’s no way he’s going to be able to keep this up for long. He has to be a pressure cooker just building up more and more until he inevitably posts something on Truth about how the real mycrimes.txt was in the upstairs bookshelf.
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Aug 10, 2022 16:38
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selec posted:I think we crossed the event horizon where hypocrisy matters like 10+ years ago. It doesn’t matter, it’s just a way to pep rally your own team, but doesn’t fundamentally change or affect rhetoric or political leanings. People know everything about our country and history have hypocrisy baked in so we can ignore our own any time we want, while observing it in others. Has all the actual political salience of adding gold fringe to a flag and saying it means something significant. Yeah the dumbest poo poo I see on Twitter is notable libs pointing out GOP hypocrisy and going "a ha!" Like holy poo poo they don't care, and they haven't cared in years. They lie out both sides of their mouth and their base doesn't give a poo poo either. The hypocrisy is often quite funny, I just don't think it really has any political utility. Fwiw I do see some Twitter lefties doing poo poo like this as well wrt Democrats, and it seems about as effective. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Aug 10, 2022 |
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Aug 10, 2022 16:41
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evilweasel posted:lawyertalk: pleading the fifth is not an admission of guilt, and there are often many good reasons to plead the fifth even if you are completely innocent Whose soul did Biden offer up to get the roll he's on? He's moved past having a good week to a good month.
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Aug 10, 2022 16:41
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