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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Well the nebulously canon/fan fiction lore book heavily insinuates that basically every society in Essos has their own version of the Long Night legend so apparently the Others gently caress with them too but the idea will almost certainly never be developed further. That just makes the TV show using the Night King as the Droid Control Ship linchpin even dumber. But it would be cool if more fantasy series adopted the Warhammer Fantasy notion that planets are spherical and evil coming out of the extreme north or south can go to multiple continents.
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Aug 11, 2022 15:34
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Arc Hammer posted:That just makes the TV show using the Night King as the Droid Control Ship linchpin even dumber. The night's king, in the sense this one person who is the leader of all zombies or whatever, prob don't even exist in the books lol The night's king in the books was just this night's watch commander from like 1000 years ago who defected to the white walkers there's no reference to him currently leading the white walkers or whatever I'm like 99% sure D&D decided they need "major main villain leader" and saw the name "night's king" and decide "yep that's our guy"
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Aug 11, 2022 15:35
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To be fair I dont think GRRM knows what to do with them ice zombies either
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Aug 11, 2022 15:46
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the ice zombies were always best when you don't show them too much and they are just a mysterious force hanging on the outskirts that you know is coming. Actually having characters interacting with said ice zombies is not interesting. the more they get shown the more  they get, they are supposed to be a metaphor for nature disasters like climate change or the plague (the entirety Jon's arc for 4 books was dealing with fantasy-climate refugees). We've already had a zillion movies/shows about zombie fighting idgaf if Jon kills a zillion zombies or whatever.I guess the theory that Euron will bring down the wall and allow them through to conquer Westeros make sense, historically political elites tended to take advantage of their neighbors weakened by nature disasters rather than cooperate with them
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Aug 11, 2022 15:53
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The book ones weren’t just mere zombies if I recall correctly.
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Aug 11, 2022 15:55
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Invalid Validation posted:The book ones weren’t just mere zombies if I recall correctly. They’re Ice Elves or some poo poo and the fact that they were in the prologue to the first book makes this all so much stupider because it feels like GRRM stopped caring about what was presented as the overarching storyline years ago.
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Aug 11, 2022 16:37
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Arc Hammer posted:That just makes the TV show using the Night King as the Droid Control Ship linchpin even dumber. Come to think of it, we never see ir hear of Essos again after that episode, right? Would be funny if the invasion succeeded there because some rear end in a top hat burnt everything and then sailed away with all the troops available. Guess we saved half the world
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Aug 11, 2022 16:47
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Kuiperdolin posted:Come to think of it, we never see ir hear of Essos again after that episode, right? Would be funny if the invasion succeeded there because some rear end in a top hat burnt everything and then sailed away with all the troops available. Essos is basically continental Eurasia to Westeros's England and have way more troops than whatever Dany sailed away wtih
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Aug 11, 2022 16:53
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As the books went on you'd have to eventually take a stand on the nature of prophecy or the intentions and origins of the ice zombies. You can't keep the mystery going forever. Unless you just stop writing the story, which seems to be the option grrm has chosen. Solving the mysteries was always going to disappoint some people - wondering about the solution and thinking about alternatives is always more fun than having it spelled out. But just leaving them hanging forever and yet finishing the story is also not really workable. For a pretty good way of dealing with this kind of problem I'd suggest that old game Morrowind. There's a lot of mysteries in the back story there, some of them are straight up solved, some are revealed to be legitimate conflicts between different viewpoints rather than A being right and B wrong, and some are not really solved at all.
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Aug 11, 2022 17:18
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GRRM has to this point ultimately failed to prove he is any better than JJ Abrams and the Mystery Box.
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Aug 11, 2022 17:32
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pidan posted:
as in it will never be revealed/confirmed whether he's real or a fake, just different characters arguing and fighting over it quote:As the books went on you'd have to eventually take a stand on the nature of prophecy The obvious parallel to this in asoiaf are Cersei and Magy the Frog's prophecy. Which is probably why the Cersei chapters in AFFC are very fun reads. Typo fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Aug 11, 2022 |
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Aug 11, 2022 18:02
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pidan posted:As the books went on you'd have to eventually take a stand on the nature of prophecy or the intentions and origins of the ice zombies. You can't keep the mystery going forever. Unless you just stop writing the story, which seems to be the option grrm has chosen. I think this is a recurring trope in fantasy that's kind of problematic, all the prophecies are generally true. Like, nobody ever makes up a false prophecy or is ever huckster, it's pretty commonly like "all the stories are true". GRRM could've had some prophecies be true and some be false. Hell, even a "real" magical prophet could get some things wrong, depending on the mechanism of how they receive visions or whatever. Also, they could've defeated the ice elves and zombies without ever understanding them or seeing their backstory. A lot of authors want to reveal everything, and sometimes that's neat, but a lot of wrap-ups are too neat.
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Aug 11, 2022 18:30
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or just leave prophecies ambigious enough that their fullfillment is up to intrepretation kinda like how irl "prophecies" work quote:GRRM could've had some prophecies be true and some be false. Hell, even a "real" magical prophet could get some things wrong, depending on the mechanism of how they receive visions or whatever. Typo fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Aug 11, 2022 |
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Aug 11, 2022 18:33
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What a goddamn crybaby loser doing pathetic damage control. Hey shithead, if they had done 10 seasons it would already be finished even with Covid screwing things up and still no new book. https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/george-rr-martin-shut-out-game-of-thrones-seasons-1235339333/ 
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Aug 12, 2022 00:32
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:What a goddamn crybaby loser doing pathetic damage control. Hey shithead, if they had done 10 seasons it would already be finished even with Covid screwing things up and still no new book. I seem to also recall that GRRM said he willingly stepped back from working on the show so he could try and get Winds of Winter finished before the show caught up to him and then just dicked around watching football and writing (half!) an encyclopedia with a pair of white supremacists that he's now smooshed into a TV show somehow. Like, I'm all for throwing Weiss and Benioff under the bus, gently caress those two dumb incompetent failsons, but GRRM really needs to take his rightful place under the tires alongside them at this point.
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Aug 12, 2022 01:54
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Be more thematically appropriate if we throw him under a train
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Aug 12, 2022 02:14
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nine-gear crow posted:I seem to also recall that GRRM said he willingly stepped back from working on the show so he could try and get Winds of Winter finished before the show caught up to him and then just dicked around watching football and writing (half!) an encyclopedia with a pair of white supremacists that he's now smooshed into a TV show somehow. GRRM wouldn't fit under a bus.
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Aug 12, 2022 02:29
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I assume this is an attempt to get people excited about the Targaryen show he is apparently involved in. It's his attempt at convincing people the bad seasons weren't his fault and if only he, the genius writer had been on board the show would have been great. Now this new show has the American Tolkien onboard, so it has to be good! Prophecies and magical bloodlines are among my least favorite tropes of fantasy fiction, so of course that's what they are doubling down on. 11 seasons and 4 spin-offs, is my prediction.
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Aug 12, 2022 12:38
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Maybe it will end up like Fear The Walking Dead, a show that I'm pretty sure nobody ever actually watches and yet AMC has done about seven seasons of.
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Aug 12, 2022 15:11
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I liked obvious shill article about Matt Smith saying there were too many sex scenes in the new show.
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Aug 12, 2022 15:13
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There seems to be a belief among some posters here that the white supremacist couple who worked on “A World of Ice and Fire” have anything to do with the material that House of the Dragon is based on? They don’t, for better or worse the source material for this show is “Fire & Blood”, specifically the section that basically consists of “The Rogue Prince” and “The Princess and the Queen”, all written solely by GRRM.
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Aug 12, 2022 16:43
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Whizzing Wizard posted:I assume this is an attempt to get people excited about the Targaryen show he is apparently involved in. It's his attempt at convincing people the bad seasons weren't his fault and if only he, the genius writer had been on board the show would have been great. The first 3 books handled "magical bloodlines" pretty well. In that the magic didn't matter that much They mostly just mattered in establishing legitimacy for a noble house to their underlings, same as how "divine right" works irl. Even Dany's dragons were mostly just toys she showed off as symbols of the Targaryen dynasty.
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Aug 12, 2022 16:45
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kaworu posted:There seems to be a belief among some posters here that the white supremacist couple who worked on “A World of Ice and Fire” have anything to do with the material that House of the Dragon is based on? They don’t, for better or worse the source material for this show is “Fire & Blood”, specifically the section that basically consists of “The Rogue Prince” and “The Princess and the Queen”, all written solely by GRRM. Are they solely written by him though? My understanding was that Fire & Blood was mostly made out of leftover materials from the worldbook, Wikipedia refers to Gurm's blog that over 200 000 words were removed from AWoIaF for F&B and the pear-shaped man says as much himself Gurm on AWoIaF posted:Elio and Linda went through all the published novels, the Dunk & Egg stories, etc, pulled out the historical references, legends, and such, organized all of that into a chronology, and wrote a first draft. Then I stepped in, revising their draft, filling the holes, answering questions, resolving contradictions, and adding new material where little or none existed in the published books. Of course, as with the novels, "the tale(s) grew in the telling," and I ended up adding a LOT... so much that in the end we had to rip out more than two hundred thousand words of it (which will eventually appear in the GRRMarillion). In the cases where I wrote way, way, way too much, Elio and Linda then went back in and produced a severely abridged version. ALLAN LASSUS fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 12, 2022 |
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Aug 12, 2022 17:28
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ALLAN LASSUS posted:Are they solely written by him though? My understanding was that Fire & Blood was mostly made out of leftover materials from the worldbook, Wikipedia refers to Gurm's blog that over 200 000 words were removed from AWoIaF for F&B and the pear-shaped man says as much himself Based on the quote you posted, this still seems largely written by GRRM. Everything was based on stuff he’d already written and the rest he filled in himself.
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Aug 12, 2022 18:07
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Arc Hammer posted:Maybe it will end up like Fear The Walking Dead, a show that I'm pretty sure nobody ever actually watches and yet AMC has done about seven seasons of. Fear the Walking Dead was a really cool miniseries concept that just kind of kept going. Much like The Walking Dead itself. Nothing in the Walking Dead-verse really has any excuse for existing past like 2015, and yet it somehow still just does. A literal zombie franchise, if you will. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Aug 12, 2022 |
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Aug 12, 2022 20:16
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Cable TV ratings are obviously down for everything except NFL football but the season to season collapse in ratings for TWD are a sight to behold.
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Aug 12, 2022 20:24
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Walking Dead as a franchise fucks me up somehow. I only actually like the first season of the main show but for some reason sat through five more full seasons before I finally quit. Then, despite only enjoying the first two or three episodes of Fear (i.e. the slow build-up of background zombie stuff that I thought was going to be the whole show) I proceeded to watch three more seasons. It's like some kind of parasite that gets in my head and forces me to keep watching as the writing gets worse and the CGI budgets evaporate and eventually I swear I will never look at another Walking Dead thing again Anyway, hope that Daryl spin-off is still in the works!
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Aug 12, 2022 22:47
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pseudanonymous posted:I think this is a recurring trope in fantasy that's kind of problematic, all the prophecies are generally true. Like, nobody ever makes up a false prophecy or is ever huckster, it's pretty commonly like "all the stories are true". Mistborn takes a fun stab at prophecies.
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Aug 12, 2022 23:03
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Cable TV ratings are obviously down for everything except NFL football but the season to season collapse in ratings for TWD are a sight to behold. I watched the first season and it didn't do anything for me. I visited my folks a few months ago when they were watching it, and it looked bizarre. It basically looked like that part at the end of an open world video game where you beat all of the normal villains/factions and then the super-advanced government future soldiers suddenly take over the city
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Aug 13, 2022 01:12
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:What a goddamn crybaby loser doing pathetic damage control. Hey shithead, if they had done 10 seasons it would already be finished even with Covid screwing things up and still no new book. While GRRM might feel this way, this whole thing reads like it was written by marketing at HBO, and reprinted verbatim by Variety.
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Aug 13, 2022 11:31
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The Absolute Fucker posted:Martin disagreed with Benioff and Weiss’ decision to cut the show short. The author long envisioned “Game of Thrones” to run for 10 seasons. Martin’s agent, Paul Haas, revealed last year that the author would fly to New York City to meet with then-HBO CEO Richard Plepler in order to convince him to extend the series’ television run. loving lol. If it was his call, the TV show would never be finished either. Now we would be in season 15 and he would be saying 2 (or maybe 3) more would be needed Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Aug 13, 2022 |
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Aug 13, 2022 11:42
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TERFherder posted:While GRRM might feel this way, this whole thing reads like it was written by marketing at HBO, and reprinted verbatim by Variety. It was. That and the "Oh no, too many sex scenes!" Matt Smith article make me think HBO has hired someone as media narrative director. They're afraid this show will fizzle.
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Aug 13, 2022 16:40
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Will HBO be fine with a Better Call Saul situation where the show is critically acclaimed and popular but it’s objective metrics like ratings are significantly lower than the original show? Because with the way things are going on with WB/Discovery leadership I strongly suspect they wouldn’t be.
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Aug 13, 2022 16:58
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Elias_Maluco posted:loving lol. If it was his call, the TV show would never be finished either. Now we would be in season 15 and he would be saying 2 (or maybe 3) more would be needed At this point, HBO execs would kill each other to have 15 seasons of GoT and the revenue that’d have generated.
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Aug 13, 2022 17:00
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Will HBO be fine with a Better Call Saul situation where the show is critically acclaimed and popular but it’s objective metrics like ratings are significantly lower than the original show? Because with the way things are going on with WB/Discovery leadership I strongly suspect they wouldn’t be. If it's critically acclaimed, maybe. For some reason I very much doubt it will be, though EDIT: Evil Fluffy posted:At this point, HBO execs would kill each other to have 15 seasons of GoT and the revenue that’d have generated. Oh, I'm sure they would. Fortunately the showrunners got sick of it and that's why we have an ending to that loving story. It's a pretty bad ending but still I guess it's better than none Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Aug 13, 2022 |
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Aug 13, 2022 17:02
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Evil Fluffy posted:At this point, HBO execs would kill each other to have 15 seasons of GoT and the revenue that’d have generated. The season 7 dumpster fire was made more acute by how fast they ended things, but the shows quality had significantly dropped off at that point and the showrunners eagerness to go make a "what if the south won" and a Star War means they probably wouldn't have focused too much on "good writing" at that point, not that, even if they tried, they could accomplish it.
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Aug 13, 2022 19:01
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Well they were right in thinking they wouldn't need to work hard on a star wars.
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Aug 13, 2022 19:09
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Let’s not rewrite history like HBO and GRRM and most GoT fans. Just take a look at the IMDB individual episode review scores if you need a reminder. While there were some, including myself, who recognized that the show was seriously foundering in Season 5 followed by a Season 6 that proved that the plot was complete lost the vast majority of people were in love with the series going into Season 8. The watch parties were still huge, the ratings were skyrocketing, the hype was everywhere. It wasn’t until the absolute slap in the face of The Long Night episode where the cold dose of reality that the show sucked finally hit not just annoying nerds like us.
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Aug 13, 2022 19:15
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I liked it for the most part til the last couple seasons. After they ran out of books to plagiarize, the whole story fell off a cliff.
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Aug 13, 2022 19:18
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Let’s not rewrite history like HBO and GRRM and most GoT fans. Just take a look at the IMDB individual episode review scores if you need a reminder. While there were some, including myself, who recognized that the show was seriously foundering in Season 5 followed by a Season 6 that proved that the plot was complete lost the vast majority of people were in love with the series going into Season 8. The watch parties were still huge, the ratings were skyrocketing, the hype was everywhere. It wasn’t until the absolute slap in the face of The Long Night episode where the cold dose of reality that the show sucked finally hit not just annoying nerds like us. Yeah, and even then there were plenty of smug assholes willing to go to bat to defend that episode. Even the episode where Dany forgot about the Iron Fleet had defenders. It was finally The Bells where enough people fell off that there was no longer a real defense force.
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Aug 13, 2022 19:30
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